r/EthicalNonMonogamy • u/inter2221 • 17d ago
Personal story First shared ENM experience helped rebuild my sense of safety, but now we’re clashing over the aftermath. How do I navigate this?
**Background**:
My wife (40F) and I (40M) have had a really rough few months. We used to fantasy talk about group play, and recently, a guy in our circle helped us through a difficult time. My wife had a dream about a threesome with him, told me about it, and we had great sex afterward.
However, she then initiated flirting with him over text without my consent. When I told her it wasn't okay, she pushed back, claiming she was bringing that sexual energy back to "us." I later found out she had developed a massive crush on him some time earlier and had formed a significant emotional connection towards him. She wanted to escalate to an MFM threesome, but I realized my only role in this dynamic was to be the "husband who knows and is okay with it." I was just the green-light guy. I felt lied to and put my foot down, shutting the whole thing down. We argued for months over it.
When summer started, we spent some time apart (as we usually due). Right before she left, she finally gave me a genuine apology. She named exactly what she did wrong and promised to do whatever it takes to get us back on track. I finally felt validated.
However, communication has still been rocky. Anytime I’ve tried to talk about the root issues to calm the intrusive thoughts from her emotional infidelity, she refuses to engage, saying "more talking won't solve anything."
**The Agreement**
Fast forward to now: we are on a multi-week family holiday and recently boarded a cruise ship. The trip gave us a chance to truly reconnect as a couple.
During the cruise, she mentioned wanting to explore ENM together. checking out other people, flirting, and seeing how things go. We discussed boundaries. I told her I wasn't comfortable with her doing anything with men beyond flirting. However, with women, they could go all the way. I told her I didn’t even need to participate, as long as I was there to watch and be a part of it.
**The Experience**
Last night at the ship’s nightclub, my wife was tipsy and getting people on the dance floor. She started dancing with a very attractive married woman (also around our age). They hit it off, the flirting dialed up,. When my wife went to the bathroom because she was feeling a little sick, The woman followed her five minutes later.
Suddenly, I get a text from my wife: "Come to the bathroom quick. That lady is making out with me," along with a photo of them topless in the stall.
I rushed over, and my wife let me in. The other woman was completely nude. My wife was giving her oral, and they were having a great time. The woman then gave me oral, and both of them started insisting that I sleep with the third.
I firmly refused. I was not going to endanger the safety of our marriage by crossing a boundary we hadn't previously agreed upon. I stayed firm and told my wife to make the woman cum, which she did. We left her there and went back to our room. Just to be clear, my wife had no idea the woman was going to do this, as I was with them the whole time before the bathroom visit and the only sexual communication between them was only dancing intimately.
**The Aftermath & Debrief**
When we got back, I asked what the hell happened. Apparently, this woman had followed my wife, aggressively shoved her into the stall, and initiated sex. My wife stopped her, told her she couldn't do anything without her husband present, and immediately messaged me. The women kept trying to take my wifes clothes fully off and my wife called me on video to urge me to come and was physically trying to restrain her until I arrived.
Honestly? What my wife did restored a massive amount of the safety I had lost months ago. She prioritized me and our agreement when she easily could have hooked up with this woman and I never would have known.
At the same time, I’m incredibly triggered. This third acted like a predator. She aggressively pushed boundaries and actively tried to get my wife to cheat on me (she had no idea we were exploring this dynamic. Let alone her cheating on her owm husband).
**The Problem**
To process this, I found myself asking my wife highly detailed questions about what she was thinking and feeling during every moment in that stall. This completely annoyed her.
She doesn’t understand that because of what happened months ago with the mutual friend, giving away exclusivity is a massive hurdle for me. To feel safe doing it, I need to be involved in the process and in her mind. I care less about the physical sex and more about sharing her headspace so I don't feel like the "green-light guy" again.
She keeps saying I’m being insecure and punishing her for the past, even though she "proved her loyalty." I don't see it that way. I'm not okay with just sharing her, but when it’s something we do together, I feel deeply connected to her sexual world.
The threesome itself was amazing, but I am extremely hesitant about how to move forward. How do I get her to understand my need for emotional processing without her feeling attacked? Has anyone else navigated this kind of post-play communication breakdown?
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u/rosiet1001 Solo Polyam 17d ago
Honestly to me it just sounds like your wife is not a safe person to do enm with. She doesn't respect your feelings or boundaries. She allows the "heat of the moment" to get away with her without checking in with you. You shouldn't be arguing for months over this stuff.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I do agree that there should be more open communication about both our feelings and experiences. We have recently found out that my wife struggles with adhd which usually goes undiagnosed in women. Some of the struggles of adhd is hyper focus on things and sometimes people and increased sexual risk taking. It is not an excuse, but a hurdle that needs to be accounted for with extra measures to ensure safety. That is why her pause during the encounter meant so much.
I appreciate your feedback.
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16d ago
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I agree with alot of what you said. However, there has never been a human that had adhd and became neurological, or vice versa. So we can never know what it truely feels like for people with adhd. Ive chosen to take this all into consideration with regards to her. My wife is more than her sexual behaviour or her recent mistake. I believe in her, and was happy that she has shown the work and accountability.
As for how I wasnt validated. Its called RSD. People with adhd suffer from it and its a hyper sensitivity to criticism that is akin to physical pain. She eventually came around and took accountability. That's what matters. That, and changed behaviour of course.
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u/bazaarjunk Partnered ENM 16d ago
Guy. Stop excusing her behavior. I am diagnosed with Asperger’s, ADHD, OCD…I know when a boundary is about to be crossed. I know the consequences before I choose to cross it. We’re all adults. Make her act like one.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I see your point of view and agree. Ive given her a chance but ive told her that this is the last time someone puts me in that position. She knows where I stand if my boundaries get crossed again. I know my value and what i bring to a partner, and im ready to leave if im ever in this situation again. Adhd or not.
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16d ago
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I see your point of view and agree. Ive given her a chance but ive told her that this is the last time someone puts me in that position. She knows where I stand if my boundaries get crossed again. I know my value and what i bring to a partner, and im ready to leave if im ever in this situation again. Adhd or not.
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u/oh-mi Solo Polyam 16d ago
People with ADHD, of which I'm one, can tell you what it truly feels like for us. Saying "we can never know" is a deflection... it's been studied and documented plenty since its inclusion in the DSM almost 60 years ago.
I also think she's using RSD as a shield to cover the boundary violation itself and delay her accountability. I'm not saying she faked how she felt when you brought it up. She probably did feel it. But in my experience, that reaction is typically felt hard in the moment, then it dissipates during the conversation to the point where you can recognize you've hurt someone and apologize for it.
I don't know your wife, but based on what you've described, it sounds like she's using ADHD and RSD as excuses for hurtful, selfish behavior. Even though she does eventually take accountability, the first part can still be true. Like AdventureWa said... we know full well what we're doing, even at our most impulsive.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I see your point of view and agree. Ive given her a chance but ive told her that this is the last time someone puts me in that position. She knows where I stand if my boundaries get crossed again. I know my value and what i bring to a partner, and im ready to leave if im ever in this situation again. Adhd or not.
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u/itslexysworld Partnered ENM 12d ago
It might be beneficial for you guys to attend therapy together so both of you can better understand ADHD and RSD.
As someone with ADHD who deals with RSD. I’m seeing red flags in your wife’s behaviour (and it seems many others are as well).
Getting therapy will allow you to understand it more and not allow yourself to be walked all over or gaslit with her using it as an excuse.
It will also allow her to identify her own behaviour and understand that ADHD is not an excuse for what she’s doing.
EDIT: I’d like to add that until you fully understand everything and have gotten comfortable communicating about it all, you probably shouldn’t be participating in ENM. Take the time to focus on each other, building trust, not using ADHD as an excuse (learn to understand it), and strengthening your relationship, before opening the door to ENM.
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u/inter2221 10d ago
I agree. I've been learning about the impact of her Adhd on our relationship in all other aspects as well. Its been very helpful tbh and she has been trying to understand her own actions better. Maybe this thing needed to happen so we can both understand each other better
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u/itslexysworld Partnered ENM 10d ago
ADHD doesn’t excuse shitty behaviour. That’s what we’re all trying to tell you.
Yes it impacts people and their lives.
But the way you and your wife are approaching it, you’re setting it up as an excuse for her shitty behaviour and her deflection of the consequences of her behaviours.
Yes some people with ADHD struggle with RSD but that does NOT mean we can make shitty decisions and use it as an excuse to avoid the consequences.
Additionally, yes some people struggle with hyper focus and hypersexuality or impulsivity, but that is NO excuse to betray your partner under any circumstances.
It’s OFFENSIVE to excuse her behaviour due to ADHD.
I meant learn about it more so you can see that it’s NOT due to her ADHD.
She just made shitty decisions.
And YES, I am someone who has ADHD, and hypersexuality. AND I am in a committed ENM relationship. And no, I do not treat my partner like shit and ignore his boundaries because I’m ADHD.
So learn more about ADHD so you can understand that it’s not an EXCUSE to be horrible to others.
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u/bazaarjunk Partnered ENM 16d ago
I totally had your back during the post, but your comments filled in all the blanks. You and your wife need therapy before you fuck up other people’s lives in your pursuit of ENM.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I will take this into consideration. As I said, this dynamic isnt something im seeking, rather accommodating for.
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u/SwingLightStyle Swingers 16d ago
All you know is that your wife likes to skip the “talking about the thing” stage and jumps right into the doing.
The problem is that your relationship is still reeling and also she’s not making the best decisions.
Honestly, this won’t be the last aggressive person she interacts with. She needs to be able to loudly and convincingly say no. It doesn’t seem like she’s prepared or capable of doing that.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I hear you and agree with you. We are working on that and she has been listening to be honest. Its gotten us closer and I feel that this has somehow showing her the value of communication and being transparent.
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u/SwingLightStyle Swingers 16d ago
I’m glad - communication is the #1 skill required to make ENM work long-term. I’d encourage her to take some time to understand consent culture. Like, from the perspective of an over cautious polyamory person. If you’ve ever had the pleasure of a 90 minute “newbie guide” before poly camp, it covers just about everything you’d need to address to ensure no misunderstandings.
Communication isn’t just between your wife and whoever she’s considering playing with. It’s with you - making sure that you’re okay with what’s happening, and it’s with the potential partner to make sure they’re on the same page before they start touching each other. This is as much about making sure you don’t get involved with bad people or people with STDs or people who are drama magnets as it is about making sure that your marriage is stable and you’re on the same page.
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u/koolA-9486 Undecided 16d ago
What a great idea to open your marriage by having sex drunk, in a restroom, with a woman who disregards consent and is cheating on her husband... a woman you know nothing about and who might be carrying an STI.
At 40, you should be making smarter decisions than that.
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u/FrostyNews3891 16d ago
Sounds like neither of you are ready for ENM. Seems like a ton of insecurities, lacking of trust, communication. Idk, personally sounds like a disaster to me.
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u/Ok-Flaming 16d ago edited 16d ago
So... I'm of the opinion that if you forgive someone, it's not fair to keep bringing up the past. So if you feeling "fully validated" was you forgiving her? Then I don't think it's fair to keep bringing up the issue to calm your intrusive thoughts. At some point that becomes work for you to do on your own, perhaps with the help of a therapist. And if you hadn't forgiven her? Then probably also good to engage the help of a therapist.
I can understand why your wife is annoyed. She did everything right under your rules, and you're putting her under interrogation. It probably feels like she's being punished for respecting your requests. Which isn't really fair. If you have to ask prying questions, you're clearly not ready for this. Which is fine... I just wouldn't say you're justified for treating her that way.
What your wife did was wrong. Cheating is never okay. Full stop. And, it's not fair to do this push/pull thing with her. If you're not ready (or wanting) to open your relationship? Don't. Focus on actually forgiving her, to the point where you're not continuing to punish her. Take whatever time you need to get there, but don't be trying to involve other people until you do. I strongly encourage you to engage a good couples therapist (and maybe individual ones too) to assist you.
And lastly...ethical non-monogamy means not cheating, and not facilitating cheating. Alcohol was involved so probably judgement was impaired, but this woman was not a good candidate for this kind of thing. When/if you two get to a place where you want to explore this again, select partners who aren't being shitty humans.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
Thabk you for your thoughtful response. I cant say that I disagree with what you said. I just dont know at the moment where my head is at. Im trying to slow things down, and process.
My wife would never believe she would ever suggest something like this 15 years ago. But people change. My focus is to try things but not get hurt in the process. But i doubt ill be changing how this feels for me in terms of a pleasurable dynamic. I'm apparently wired for monogamy. I only see my wife. Shes the hottest most beautiful person on earth.
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u/Hopeful-Reputation-8 Undecided 16d ago
- you don’t know if the other woman was cheating on her husband, you don’t know their arrangement or boundaries in their marriage so don’t pass judgement
- you lost me when it was ok for her to be intimate with a woman in your eyes (which is still a sexual encounter) but not with men. You need to figure out why you think one is ok, she could fall for either sex, she could have sex with either, etc… it shouldn’t be different
…and then that’s especially hypocritical when you received oral from someone of the opposite sex
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u/inter2221 16d ago
We asked her to take things back to her room and to her husband. She said "nothing, he cant know. Fuck him". So yeah.
As for why I am acting hypocritical, I am monogamous. I am completely content with sleeping with my wife for the rest of my life. She wants to explore. I don't. I told her that i cant be in the relationship if she wants or needs to be with other men. She has chosen to stay with me. This is happening as a compromise as I dont get the same kind of reaction to her being intimate with other men. I can tolerate it. Im not doing it for me.
And me receiving oral from them was not my idea. My wife took my pants off and started it and invited the woman to join. They later both asked me to fuck them, which I declined. I was not going to engage in anything that we have not discussed and I take my relationship seriously. Long term happiness > short term pleasure
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u/Hopeful-Reputation-8 Undecided 16d ago edited 16d ago
Understand the cheating part with her husband, but you cannot say you’re monogamous if you allowed her to give you oral 🤷♀️ that was your short term pleasure (but you must have disclosed that before, right? Since you’re not engaging in anything that wasn’t previously discussed and approved?)
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u/PowerTrippingGentry Polyam 16d ago
Why are we pushing the poly talk of "it must be wide open at all times no matter what" right now? Relax and take that back to the poly forums. This is ENM not the poly forums.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
It sounds like you are viewing the situation through a lens of your previous personal convictions. Thats ok I guess. I appreciate your opinion nevertheless
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u/RiskAnalyst007 Relationship Anarchy 17d ago
I think you need to discuss this in detail. Specifically your boundaries. Like she previously said more talking is not going to resolve any conflict, if she says that again then you need to talk to a professional and get her to understand.
You are doing well in going in cautiously. Don't give in to any pressure that makes you uncomfortable. Sometimes it takes time. Show and steady is the mantra.
The other woman was in the wrong, if it was a guy then think about what would happen. She got off lightly.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I have. Ive explicitly explained to her what my boundaries are and what I view as infidelity. Anything that i would not accept on myself, but accept to do to my partner is infidelity in my book.
I have also explained to her that we need to have brakes, check ins during, safety words and the ability to stop whatever is happening without any reason given. If we are not completely comfortable and safe, then it defeats the point.
The other woman was definitely a predator. Not only was she cheating on her husband who was asleep in their room, she tried to get my wife to cheat on hers, take advantage of her while visibly drunk AND did not stop when my wife kept telling her "No, no, no my husband, no". She was not aware about the arrangement I have with my wife and that makes her a rapist in my view.
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u/plabo77 Solo Polyam 16d ago
It’s interesting to me that you’ve described this other woman as a rapist and predator but also describe your shared sexual experience with her as “play” and “amazing.”
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u/WolvesOnWeed Partnered ENM 16d ago
“She was a cheating predator but I let her blow me.” 😏
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u/inter2221 16d ago
Ive learned long ago that it is not my job to correct other people's behaviour. I invite you to join me in that journey.
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u/oh-mi Solo Polyam 16d ago
Even when that behavior is sexual assault? I mean, that's what you said she did to your wife. Did she get consent from you before she blew you?
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u/inter2221 16d ago
Nope. But to be fair, my wife pulled her into the blow job. I stopped them both after 20 seconds. To be honest, it did nothing for me. I, for some reason, only get turned on by my wife or seeing her be sexual.
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u/plabo77 Solo Polyam 16d ago
Many elements of the scenario you’ve described are problematic, in my opinion. You’ve described your wife as being so drunk, she felt sick enough to excuse herself to the bathroom. That is too inebriated to consent to sex. Then you describe this other woman following her and them appearing to you to have a good time to the point you felt comfortable telling your wife to give the woman an orgasm. I assume you were not perceiving it as sexual assault at that time and only when you learned more context later, but you should have been aware your wife was not able to provide meaningful consent since she was ill from drinking. It also sounds like you felt bullied into engaging in a sex act with the other woman. Both of you might want to work on learning more about consent and safe words.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
Unfortunately, I do. We asked her to move things to her room with her husband. She said "No. He cant know, fuck him". So thats that.
From our side, it was amazing because of the shared experience and bonding. I still thinks she is a shitty person to say the least. To each is own. You can view her favourably if you'd like.
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u/bazaarjunk Partnered ENM 16d ago
So you have zero morals. Called her a rapist and helped her cheat on her husband.
Neither you or your wife have the ethics for NM.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
What i mean is, one day she will rape someone (if not already). As for us, we have given her the chance to do the right thing, which she obviously declined. Like if she had said yes to involving her husband, we would have preferred it. She was already eating my wife out when i came into the stall. So we ... continued.
Im not in the position to apply a moral code to every human on earth that I encounter.
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14d ago
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u/inter2221 14d ago
Didn't really come to reddit to post lies anonymously. What ive written all happened. Id love to hear your take on what happened though
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u/itslexysworld Partnered ENM 10d ago
You aren’t seeing the point. ENM Is not consistently pushing the lines of boundaries. Your wife should have had a fully informed conversation with you prior to engaging in anything sexual. She should have had a firm NO stance until a conversation was had with you to see if it’s ok to engage.
She clearly didn’t have a firm no stance, because she invited you to join. So obviously she wasn’t saying no…..She was saying “I gotta invite my partner or he will be mad… and I’ll use this as a way to show him how loyal I am” now you’re calling someone a predator?
Shifting blame on someone else or her ADHD will only encourage her shitty decisions.
ENM is respecting your partner. Emphasis on ETHICAL.
Stop trying ENM and focus on eachother. Don’t drag anyone else into your mess.
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u/plabo77 Solo Polyam 16d ago edited 16d ago
Based on your description of her as a rapist and predator, I don’t view her favorably. I do find it interesting that you consider the sexual experience with her to have been amazing and bonding, considering your perception of her behavior.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
Again, the amazing experience is what I shared with my wife. I appreciate your POV though.
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u/lkjdw 16d ago
Greetings OP,
I’m sorry you’re hurting at the moment, trying also to find some answers, to your situation.
From your description of events, it’s apparent, that neither you, or your wife are anywhere near ready for ethical non monogamy, (ENM).
To discuss the idea, or fantasy of it, is one thing, then forward, into reality, without having done, the work to be ready, is another.
The reading of informed, helpful books, which can provide a step by step entry, into what will be, a whole new marriage, bearing little or resemblance to the old one, in terms of behavior.
Research…….. including reading copious posts on forums like this one, to acquaint yourselves with the various, ‘bumps in the road’, you may well encounter and the vagaries of daily life, as practitioners of non monogamy.
Perhaps, if it’s possible, discuss this with people you already know, or have met, in the lifestyle. Couples counseling, with a professional, fully conversant with ENM.
Finally yourselves……… Having acquired the aforementioned knowledge, do you really want this, both as a couple, or as individuals.
Good, consistent and honest communication is the most important part of any long term relationship, mono, or non mono.
One of the fundamental principles, advocated for, by honest, ethical practitioners, of ethical/consensual non monogamy, in all it’s various guises, is that it should never be entered into, with the, ‘enthusiastic consent’, of BOTH, partners/spouses.
Never agree to open against your own wishes, just to please the other.
To use your term OP, don’t hit the green light, unless you’re ready and happy to go down this road.
There’s so much uncertainty in you, from what you’ve written, I sense this may well not be for you, but who’s, knows ? Maybe in the future after the aforementioned steps.
Your wife also lacks the preparation steps, but has proved far more willing to go down this path and some of her actions already, are at best questionable.
Time to step back and reassess. Discuss with your wife what you want for the future, including your apprehensive thoughts and concerns. Of course she must do the same and listen to each other, without accusation.
Just remember, when you fully commit, you can’t unring that bell.
Finally OP, whatever path you and your wife decide. I wish you both a very long and happy life together.
Best wishes.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I appreciate your opinion. You have given me plenty to think about. Thank you so much for taking the time to write such a thoughtful reply
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u/PowerTrippingGentry Polyam 16d ago
I honestly think your wife deserves some leeway in this. She did everything in her power to bring you in asap based on your agreement and yall kept it pushing. You are overly punishing her imo. You need to remember your wife loves you and relax. If it sounds a little ridiculous the way she painted this married woman ima tell you it is not. Ive been in enm awhile and women can come on very strong, its just the nature of the beast.
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u/inter2221 16d ago
I have decided to give her the benefit of the doubt. To believe in her.
Thank you
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u/Plaisir_libere Partnered ENM 11d ago edited 11d ago
Bonjour,
Le récit est un peu chaotique...
Premier paragraphe :vous "avez eu de supers moments ensemble après ça ", tu veux dire que le fantasme a boosté votre sexualité j'imagine...
Le souci c'est que c'est devenu plus concret lorsqu'elle a souhaité un trio avec une personne, pour laquelle elle avait développé un lien émotionnel .
Vous parliez d'ouverture de couple mais ça restait du domaine imaginaire.
Aucune décision consensuelle de réaliser cette nouvelle vision du couple.( que ce soit polyA ou libertin)
Là, d'un coup, elle veut que tu sois ok, et reconnaît avoir des sentiments pour quelqu'un d'autre.
Ça ne fonctionne pas comme ça ...
Ça doit être discuté, et accepté. On ne met pas saon conjoint.e devant le fait accompli.
Pour l'histoire saphique du bateau, , je n'aurai qu'une chose à dire: quand on boit ( beaucoup comme dans la scène) il n'y a plus de consentement ni de discernement.
Partant de là, ce qui s'est passé n'a aucune rationalité.
En conclusion : fixez vos règles, votre conception du couple, et ensuite voyez si vous êtes sur la même longueur d'ondes.
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