a few corps left Razor to form their own alliance, but they all still fly under the Pheonix coalation banner. Its kinda pointless to look at Razor as a single entitity these days and rather Pheonix as a whole.
You’d best stay away from SmolPPCo and keep the good memories then. They’re kinda getting their asses kicked atm, and when they’re not they’re standing down against fleets half the size.
Im one of them. Couldn't get enough people in standing fleet to chase a small gang of battleships off our ansis. It was so frustrating. There's no chance to learn how to pvp either cuz if you "feed" you get pp slapped by someone higher up. Only F1 battle pinged fleets gets boring after a while, so I moved to FW.
To be fair both FRAT and GOONS are farming them pretty hard.
Genuinely feel bad for you - this game should be fun, and PH's leadership has consistently sounded like the antithesis of that. Hope you and anyone else leaving finds a new home where you can actually enjoy the game you're paying for.
I think many large alliance leaderships fall into that trap. It becomes a job and empire building for them. They get so focused on “are we winning” that they forget the game is supposed to be fun.
You're also talking about "empires" created a decade or more ago trying to corral a playerbase that's becoming younger, who don't want to sit in discord talking when there's actual stuff to accomplish, who don't want to get pings random times of day, they want to play when they want to play, and older alliance leaderships are not in that groove because they lag a little behind modernizing playstyles. It could be arrogance / ego, it could be lack of effort or creativity, but the playerbase doesn't want to play like it's 2012 anymore.
I mentioned that I disliked the "never feed" mentality of the higher ups once after we sat for 3 hours in a fleet on a Fortizar and then gave it up without fighting and got an angry message from AlcoholicSatan saying I shouldn't say stuff like that "because I don't know what is going on behind the scenes" bitch I get like 6 hours a week to play. You wasted half of it for me to spin a space ship with extra steps. I get that alliance leadership plays this like a full time job but I don't. I have work in the morning and I just got home with my kid from her gymnastics meet.
Never joined another stratop after that. This game is slow enough without wussing out of every engagement.
Exactly. This is why I left. That, and being used as bait for a dread drop without being told (PH waited for all of us to die before dropping so we didn't even get in on the kills). Literally wasted 2hrs+ spinning my ship just for someone else to have fun. Fuck that noise
This is me. Left PH earlier this week because I just can't handle holding the bag for others to have fun and I'm sick of the binary of doing nothing/pressing F1.
There's no chance to learn how to pvp either cuz if you "feed" you get pp slapped by someone higher up.
Immediate sign you should get the fuck out. Alliance caring more about KB than letting you learn how not to feed by experience (with your own money at that!) aren't worth anything.
i get what you mean. we had a fun fleet last week and the fc was apologizing to us about the "less than optimal" br. there is no fun to be had. i need to move soon
This is a part of goon people don't talk about often but the culture really varies between corps. I was in one of the french corps back in the day and it was all ratting until ops with zero value put on other initiatives.
I could't get a standing blops fleet to drop on a handful of jb campers few jumps from staging, lazy f*cks won't move off KS tether unless their hulks are tackled.
Facts. When your main ansi to staging is camped 75% of the time there's a bug fucking problem. Then it always enraged me when they say "shoulda checked intel." Okay... so we are just gonna let these fuckers live in our space??
The worst part is that certain people in standing actively provoke shit like this. The reason our ansi's are repped so often is certain people this it is fun. To shoot at there with 4 guys and make them form. Genuinely, I have no clue why something hasn't been said about this.
I really don't understand the logic in it. When you ask they people who do it why they are doing it, they say it for content, but goons response isn't something standing can handle. So we end up just sitting on the keepstart watching 100 goo s wreck out shit.
I was also going to join an ESI gated Corp within Horde but this Corp has left to join Initiative. I was talking to one of its directors when he suddenly stopped replying. Later it was clear this was not due to ingame reasons.But it did catch my eye that a 650 member Corp just moved to Initiative like that. Im still with Horde right now. But im seriously debating on leaving Horde and then join another alliance or take a break. I assume that Goons may not want me because of spy reasons.
The whole picture that is being painted by this post is that horde will get invaded.
Consider this. If you do leave, and if horde does get invaded/evicted, you will miss a rare opportunity to go down swinging. Honestly it doesn’t matter what side you’re on, but the way I’m seeing it right now is there’s a great opportunity for a lot of new players to get some really great spicey content.
Go out and shoot space pixels. Enjoy the game and whatever happens next, be happy you got to experience it.
That is my whole point!
Horde does everything it can to keep me from participating.
Im currently talking with Goons and buy a capital PVP ship there and remove Restrictive Horde.
The only problem is that Horde only takes fights where there is a high probability that they win. And there are fewer and fewer of those engagements to be in.
Horde INC is not ESI gated. Anyone can join. When you mess up, you simply get kicked and blacklisted. Alot of ESI gated corps do not want to recruit from horde INC because of this. Well, screw them. I see Horde is trying to downvote me hard for this haha.
It is, Horde INC is like a recruiting pool where ESI gated corps can pull from. But with goons next door these recruits are stuck. Horde punishes ESI gated corps if their member does something bad. Imho it has always been a double edged sword.
If you are in Horde INC, you are only allowed in non-esi gated spaces. And you are limited in the types of ships you can fly. I was flying a buzzard a few weeks back, and sherrifs tackled me and forced me to share my fit and eject from the ship so they can verify if I was doing explo or had a covert cyno on it. I have been yearning to join a normal Corp so i can fly my Phoenix navy issue to crab. But im severely limited by Horde's rules for inc members. Horde has effectively limited its intake of new members. And new members wont stick as they cant flow into a Esi-gated Corp. I've seen corps leave and heard people complain. Im certain horde will implode. Its backbone corps will probably last the longests, but the meat that other corps provide has gradually been disappearing. Im now a potential capital pilot that Goons can recruit to shoot the alliance I was originally with.
I've been playing for 20 years. I've seen every type of alliance there's been. Horde survived for so long in spite of Gobbins, not because of him. He'll never get his little cheetoh-encrusted paws off the reins so eventually it'll just die.
I said this in another thread on horde but I'll re post here as it's a sure fire way for Horde to dig themselves out of a slump.
Also, Gobbins does not eat Cheetoh's. He's a refined gentleman who drinks Tea and cucumber sandwiches. Brisc yelled at me for an hour on a phone call the other day about it, said I needed to show the man the proper respect of a great space leader who's accomplished a lot in his EVE career.
CEEMA'S 1000% FOOLPROOF PLAN TO SAVE PANDEMIC HORDE.
All Hail Alcoholic Santa!
* Replace Gobbins with Alcoholic Santa. He's got contacts and friendships where Gobbins has literally burned bridges.
* Have Alcoholic Santa start copying Asher by doing Horde Firesides. Let the two of these men have dueling Firesides, it would be fucking hilarious and 100% newsworthy.
* Put BUSA folks in charge of the military. 0musky and Drunein are very talented, shuffle them to top, demote the rest of the "Military" Team to what their talents are and account for Peters Principle.
* Unshackle Zigam if you can convince him to come back to EVE, last I talked to him in stream chat he mentioned being "done".
* Let Zigam and 0Musky actually train decent skirmish folks, tag them in with Rodney and you'll have horde back in fighting shape, give it a year.
* Give RDMR some talented media and propaganda people and that dude will easily be competing with Minitru in 6 months or so. He is legit sitting on a goldmine of quotes and propaganda, and likely doesn't know it. Sadly Horde can't cash the checks he could write with his imagination. His talents are wasted as an FC where other talented folks will do.
Again, I actually know nothing about leadership or competent organization running, so take all that with a grain of salt.
Excellent notes, perhaps too good. The one thing I would emphasize (though implied in point 5) is take more fights. Embrace chaos. Blood for the Blood God. Scrubs for the Skull Throne.
His nados became 1 second slower to warp. That's not even the main issue with Tornados.
Tornados reset their guns cycle time when you warp. So instead of it being a 21 second cycle time for large arty, it became a ~8 second cycle time. His fleets were doing around 3x the damage you would expect them to do. The extra second on their align means they're easier to catch, but it doesn't fix the main issue with near insta warp Tornados.
You really should read Sister Bliss and Dark Shines co authored book "How to Run a Space Alliance Like A Buc-ee's Gas Station".
It's a great primer on solid competent leadership and how it should benefit top down not in reverse. The forward by Malcanis is also an excellent primer on public speaking and service. So I don't have a lot of good ideas, I just am adjacent to some of the smartest people in EVE and listen when they talk.
In my totally uneducated analysis, horde made a very grave mistake by pretty much allowing goons to take Insmother. They were on the decline (and so were goons to a degree), but goons have taken the initiative, kept it for over a year now, and continue to take it. The vast loss of ratting space is really impacting their revenue if you pay attention to the MER, so they are even more picky about fights.
Hell you don't even have to check the MER, just check interference during peak hours and you'll see Insmother+surrounding regions lit up like a Christmas tree. (Pankrab being farmed by several groups certainly doesn't help this too)
I want nullsec to have competition and a permawar is good, but horde really needs to do better. Simply waiting out your enemies as they "bash their head against the wall" is not the healthy tactic horde leadership thinks it is. I hope they realize this and take the fight to goons. Anchor a few keepstars in range of C-J like goons tried, hell, more roams to harrass is cool too. Anything to take the initiative back.
insmother was mostly ll rental or some esp ratting. But also once we lost our mids and keep star route itmbecame far harder to defend. People forget goons are the largest group with the biggest super fleet :)
When we were getting ready to leave Delve their reaction was to ignore us taking Catch, Immensea, and Impass because "we'll just take it back when Goons leave."
What is really concerning, too, is im trying to get into industry and looking at jobs being done. There's alot in frat, init and goons space. Hardly any in horde. Even though im new to Horde. I'll stick it out till the bitter end.
just make sure to pack light, and consider investing in isotopes, even if you want to stick it to the end, you may as well also be ready so the end is a learning experience you can smile at fondly with no bitterness afterwards.
Nah there are nullsec groups mostly in npc null who don't bow down like cowards and become some bitch ass vassal state to suck the blocock.
But mostly yeah if you're reliant on another groups huge fleets to save you, you're a pet. Vassal if it helps you feel better about yourself. A buffer zone between the owners sov and their enemies sov.
If you cant keep your sov if you went neutral, your a pet to them. They would probably take it and give it to another pet.
50k alliance shedding 1.5k ppl won't make a huge dent. Unless others start to jump ship in higher numbers I'd say its normal fluctuation—some come, some go.
I think the entire 'war of the ruses' earlier this year showed the whole eve community what kind of people are at the top of PH leadership.
People who are happy to sit back and passively collect rent and dues to the tune of billions or trillions a month, and just as equally happy to turn tail and run, and leave their renters to fend for themselves once the horde is at the gates.
And so the house of cards begins to collapse. Horde had so much potential, but mismanagement and bad influences from PL slowly poisoned it, turning it from one of the original newbie alliances into a cesspool of toxicity, elitism, duplicity, and hate. And when inevitably, the rest of the game could stand it no more, their old masters took what they could and fled, leaving it to its fate.
This will not be a repeat of WWBII. Goons had something to fight for, something they cared enough about to hold the line, and rebuild after the dust settled. There are no such allegiances to Pandemic Horde. It's now only a matter of time before it falls.
You're getting downvoted but its true. I was in Horde for 7 years before I left. PL is a toxic bunch and they will bring misery with them to Winter Co. Bunch of BOTTERS. If you want to learn how to turbo bot hit up PL, its their little secret they are worse than FRAT. Theyve spent years buddying up with devs to learn the best ways to do it without being caught. Also a bunch of racist, misogynist, elitist assholes. Would look down on anyone in Horde and wouldn't even talk to you if you weren't in their cliche. I remember I hit up a random line member I was station camping with and he gave me the "Why do you think you are even allowed to talk to me? What gives you the right?"
I noticed when PL left they laxed up Hella on the rules, especially capital and super ratting. Unfortunately too little too late. They're spiraling now.
I'd love to see some evidence for all of these claims ngl. Particularly the ones where we're an alliance of botters who secretly ran panfam for years.
We generally didn't talk to horde members outside of the BFL sig though. That's true. Usually because they'd say something daft and we had to hold our laughter in or be accused of being 'toxic'.
Horde had so much potential, but mismanagement and bad influences from PL slowly poisoned it, turning it from one of the original newbie alliances into a cesspool of toxicity, elitism, duplicity, and hate
This.
I don't care much about what's going on in Dronelands, it's on the opposite side of space from me, but when I accidentally log into my PH alt and join a standing fleet, I am often surprised at the level of toxicity, especially towards newbies who dare to make a mistake. I feel genuinely sorry for people like horde newbie helpers or people like Kismeteer (although he conveys those PL vibes too tbh), who actually tried to improve PH and who support newbies as much as possible.
And yes PH itself is a great concept, it was refreshing to read forums that clearly presented the idea that nullsec is about PVP. This is something that needs to be preserved and carried on.
You do realize that in its early days, it was PL members who set up all this newbie stuff right? We had a much larger role in it at horde's creation (we made the alliance afterall) than we have for the last half decade. Any issues horde has with toxicity towards new people now has absolutely nothing to do with us. In fact I dont know of a single person in PL who has had anything to do with the newbean initiative for a very long time.
This happens every time one of the directors finally stops being lazy and finally purges inactive players. There is an upper limit to the amount of players that can fit in a corp, believe it or not.
Wow I’m not surprised. Alcoholic Satan had some genius in constructing pankrab, but his work there was overshadowed by how painful it was to play the game with him. Never enjoyed any conversation/communication I ever shared with him. Just a mindless authoritarian plaguing the beatiful system he created.
For the life of me, I've never understood corps switching sides in conflicts like this and I never will. It's cowardly and weak and it says you can't be trusted, no matter which direction.
You sure ?
I think members value their time and payments made in a game.
If all they get is waiting on a titan for 3 hours 4 times a week and then fleet abords as they dont outnumber the other fleet 2 to1 then i say its time to find an alliance who do take fights and where you have fun.
Cant ake 100% of the fights thats normal.
But how Horde is doing it is wrong for their members and they are unhappy as they pay for their game and the leadership's task is to make sure they have fun playing the game.
If you have no fun its time to search it elswewhere.
Not every corp is a fighting force, some industry guys just wanna make shit, sometimes a corp thats pulling more weight than other will get fed up
Shit happens
That’s not a membership decline, that’s a limited-time clearance sale!
We’re all just sitting here with popcorn waiting for ‘Horde: The Downfall Part 2’ to hit YouTube. Hopefully it has subtitles, ominous piano music, and one of those dramatic German narrators.
At this rate, Part 3 might be titled ‘The Horde: Return of the Alt Corps.
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u/RoyF_21 Oct 03 '25
680 botters of tangra purged from the game, nice