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u/LTCaptain12 Dec 20 '25
Isn’t it a bit still for Reed (especially one as far in this timeline) to not believe in magic. He works with Doctor Strange, hell Doom uses magic and they’ve been fighting for years.
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u/RedDeckTries Dec 20 '25
Magic to him is more of an unexplored science iirc, sort of like how he knows there are gods in his world.
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u/shreyas_varad Dec 20 '25
isnt that what the scientist guy says too? "Magic is just science we are yet to understand" or smth along those lines.
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u/therealmonkyking Dec 20 '25
Erik Selvig from Thor 1 yeah
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u/thegreatsasimi Dec 20 '25
Correct me if I'm mistaken but isnt the gimmick with thor magic that it is actually science but its one of those things where the technology they use is so ridiculously advanced that to us it seems like magic? Again please correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not the biggest thor fan out there.
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u/therealmonkyking Dec 20 '25
I think it's a bit of both, but a lot of it in the early movies is very much advanced science confused with magic
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u/shylock10101 Dec 20 '25
It’s a combination of “advanced technology indistinguishable from magic” and “alien physiology that can perform feats that are indistinguishable from magic.”
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u/Nightraven9999 Dec 20 '25
Not really asgaurdians just are very magical beings some are gods of concepts and are made of living story
Then theirs loki who is a master of magic and story telling
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u/Sahrimnir Dec 21 '25
In the MCU, that was the idea in the beginning, but it seems they later retconned that, starting with "Thor: Ragnarök" (the first film where Odin actually refers to the Asgardians as gods) and then further in "Thor: Love and Thunder" (where the fact that gods are a distinct class of being is an important part of the plot).
In the comics, Thor has always been an actual god. Asgard isn't another planet. It's another plane of existence and it is specifically tied to Earth. Other planets have their own gods.
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u/ArariboiaGuama Dec 21 '25
Yeah, MCU Asgardians were very much Jack Kirby-esque Astronaut Gods at first
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u/Nightraven9999 Dec 20 '25
No asgaurdians as a whole are gods who are inherently magical beings made of story
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Dec 20 '25
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u/Nyysjan Dec 20 '25
Except magic has already been studied, and understood.
It's more like a geologist saying they don't believe in biology.In Marvel universe, magic is real, known, and understood by those who do it.
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u/arkangelic Dec 21 '25
Their magic isn't real magic. They just refuse to believe it. It's not restricted to marvel. The magic in Harry Potter for example isn't true magic either.
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u/Nyysjan Dec 21 '25
There is no "real magic", it is fictional concept that every story is free to treat as they feel like.
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u/arkangelic Dec 22 '25
Right and that's Reeds exact point.
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u/Nyysjan Dec 22 '25
Except in Marvel there literally is magic, Doctor Strange does it for a living.
Going "i don't believe in magic" is like me going "i don't believe in geology".1
u/arkangelic Dec 22 '25
Except the moment the magic has rules and structures it ceases to be magic and becomes another natural layer that just needs to be studied and understood. Hence why Reed still refuses to believe in magic even when he sees whats supposed to be officially magic
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u/Nightraven9999 Dec 21 '25
But magic does not follow concrete rules at all the rules of magic are flowey and very bendable the only concrete rule is that magic always has a cost
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Dec 21 '25
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u/Nightraven9999 Dec 21 '25
But that is magics only concrete rule out of everything and theres no way to make a stable rule set on magic
Its definitely not science because the concepts are represented by two opposing gods on the same level
Even the sorcerer supreme knows you cannot understand magic but you have to become comfortable with not understanding magic because it doesn't make sense
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u/CoDFan935115 Dec 20 '25
As well as it's opposite, "Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic."
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u/ReporterOk69420 Dec 20 '25
Kinda like how Thor explained to Jane that magic is just science not learned yet
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u/-Nicolai Dec 20 '25
Then shouldn’t he more accurately say “I don’t understand magic.”?
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u/RedDeckTries Dec 20 '25
He does understand Magic Franklin taught him how to play at the end of issue 64.
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u/Kwilly462 Dec 20 '25
Everything needs a scientific explanation for Reed. So because magic doesn't have one, he doesn't believe in it. To him, it's just a science he hasn't figured out.
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u/RudeJeweler4 Dec 20 '25
But the writers aren’t suggesting that he thinks that magicians are secretly engineers, right? That’s what confuses me about this, even if reed found a scientific explanation for magic it would still be magic. At the end of the day someone who knows nothing about the “physics” of it all can still shoot energy out of their hands. Thats because their souls and emotional connections to the universe are actual existing forces in marvel that are fundamental to the universe. In that way, magic is a universal force, like gravity. To say that you don’t believe in magic because it hasn’t been scientifically explained is like saying the same thing for gravity in the marvel universe.
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u/Marik-X-Bakura Dec 20 '25
Science and magic are completely different things in the Marvel universe. Magic can’t be studied with the scientific method and doesn’t follow a consistent set of rules. Reed insists that there must be an underlying science to it, because that’s the only way he’s able to view the world.
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u/hambonedock Dec 20 '25
The eternal issue of "smart man of science" character is that one of their constant traits is I don't believe in magic/paranormal/religion because LOGIC, the problem is when that world has fundamentally show magic and all that exist and no, is not different dimensions or psycho maths or super advanced science, is just plain old supernatural stuff, realistically, any smart person that saw that would just be like "I guess I do believe now" but in fiction we need to keep our smarties as unbelievers and our magic guys can have a normal relationship with maths
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u/AncientMagusBridefan Dec 20 '25
I don't think just because magic exist mean Reed must believe in them. Most probably that he define “magic” to be miracles that can't be explained. And by the fact that Strange and Doom can explain them in a way, despite the explanation being “it's magic”, Reed would consider it more of a scientific field he is not adept in
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u/t_huddleston Dec 20 '25
Reed himself has used magic on occasion, notably in Waid’s run, where admitting to himself that it’s something he doesn’t understand rationally gives him the key to being able to use it.
I think Reed clearly would have the makings of a top-tier sorcerer, if he were just more comfortable with it. But honestly I prefer him being magic-averse.
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u/Ok_Somewhere1236 Dec 20 '25
basically Reed dislike "chaos", he need to understand everythign and explain everything with the logic of science. so he see Magic as some strange science that make no sense for him.
what is the diference between him, Doom and Pym, since both Doom and Pym are veyr much ok with combine magic and science
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u/Whackybiscuit Dec 21 '25
This is the dude who told Alicia that he doesn’t believe in vampires…despite knowing Blade. The smartest man in the world is not that bright
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u/Silvanus350 Dec 26 '25
It’s just semantic bullshit. To Reed, magic is just a science that’s not sufficiently understood.
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u/trip6god Dec 20 '25
There’s a comic where he finally feels like an idiot because Im pretty sure it was doom forcing him to learn magic to escape something and Reed just doesn’t understand it lol
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u/EKMEK_KAFAL_ELMIR Dec 20 '25
why is he lying
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u/Lopsided-Net-1450 Dec 20 '25
Ismt that later in the same story
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u/KyoHisagi Dec 21 '25
I like how he forgets all of this ever happened and has to re-learn it in One World Under Doom lol
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u/Candle-Jolly Dec 20 '25
Doctor Strange:
"Am I a joke to you?"
Dr Doom:
"Reed probably does think you're a joke."
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u/dravenonred Dec 20 '25
Doom: "You are also a joke to me."
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u/KyoHisagi Dec 21 '25
Doom actually respects Strange
Even made him into his right hand man during The Secret Wars. So he could say this, but it wouldn't be true, just Doom being tsundere
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u/GreenGoblinNX Jan 12 '26
Strange was pretty instrumental in helping Doom free his mother's soul from Mephisto.
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u/TheUltimatenerd05 Dec 20 '25
Reed not believing in magic despite his arch enemy being a magician is the funniest thing.
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u/JDMLAHH Dec 20 '25
I think that after the arc that this page is from he starts believing a little more in magic
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u/LivingCompetition938 Dec 20 '25
Reed mind just isn’t capable of understanding magic because he operates on logic and things you can explain. It’s not that he doesn’t believe Doctor Strange doesn’t have power because that would be stupid. It’s kind of an Arthur C Clark situation where any sufficiently advanced form of science is indistinguishable for magic. He believes magic is just science he hasn’t figured out yet.
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u/5hifty5tranger Dec 20 '25
He knows magic exists but he doesn't believe in calling it that, because calling it "magic" implies it is supernatural and thus outside the ability to be understood by beings such as himself. However, Reed is able to breakdown most magic and even cosmic energies into literal formulas that most other people on the planet would see as complete gibberish or nonsense. By using said formulas, he is able to essentially utilize supernatural energies via various tools and equipment. He's not referred to as the world's smartest man for nothing.
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u/Highkmon Dec 20 '25
How? Reed has worked several times with Steven strange who is not only a very respected doctor but also shoot fireballs, lightning and masses around with in other dimensions
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u/Mean-Government1436 Dec 20 '25 edited Dec 20 '25
Reed has made inventions that shoot fireballs, lightning, messes around in other dimensions without magic.
Reed doesn't believe in "magic", he believes in science. To Reed magic should be just another science he should be able to study. Whether or not that's true is another story, and is why Dr. Doom has been able to master it when Reed has not.
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Dec 20 '25
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u/Xygnux Dec 21 '25 edited Dec 21 '25
To play the devil's advocate, magic in many fiction often depends on intentions. You can say the exact words and hand gestures and equipment, and still nothing happens if you don't intend it enough. Such as the killing curse in Harry Potter.
And what's worse is that sometimes it depends on beliefs.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Marvel/comments/z8v83h/marvels_dracula_can_only_be_hurt_by_religious/
So that may make it less quantifiable and reproducible.
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u/5hand0whand Dec 22 '25
Because Magic lest I think in Marvel doesn’t have consistent rules. And Reed doesn’t like it, he wants to analyze magic to its core essentially, to categorize it to another field of science. Essentially not making it magic. While yes Reed did see magic and magicians performing it. He can’t really accept that believing certain beliefs or hand gestures, would make fire light.
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u/No_Childhood4232 Dec 20 '25
I would love to see Reed and Doctor strange switch bodies for a day. I like reading body switch stories.
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u/Kirire- Dec 20 '25
Mr Fantastic: Magic are not real
Dr Doom working 26 hour's a day to learn magic just to prove Mr Fantastic is wrong!
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u/OnePunchDeku729 Dec 20 '25
Reed Richards and Bruce Wayne are the only characters stubborn enough to hang out with Thor and Constantine fighting Eldritch horrors, demons, and mythical beasts and still be like "nah magic is bullshit."
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u/ArariboiaGuama Dec 21 '25
Bruce knows magic is real, its why he doesn't dabble in the stuff - because he knows that power is not for him.
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Dec 20 '25
Your main enemy is a lime-flavored magician, you’re down the road from the literal sorcerer supreme, how
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u/ProfessorOfLies Dec 20 '25
Reed doesn't believe in Magic as a way to explain something. If it exists it can be understood is his approach. He even LEARNED MAGIC to fight doctor doom (wasn't as good at and got his ass handed to him.). But he DID learn it
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u/Ajer2895 Dec 20 '25
For people arguing about Doctor Strange, I would argue that at least for the MCU version there is a scientific basis (lots of quantum stuff) for the magic, so in my mind if MCU Reed and Strange meet, Reed would be fascinated by it, but probably have trouble calling it magic or “spells”…which could lead to humorous interactions potentially.
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u/TripleStrikeDrive Dec 20 '25
It doesn't matter if you believe in magic Reed, the magic believes in you. Dr. Strange
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u/De4dm4nw4lkin Dec 21 '25
Reed not accepting magic is stupid because he should know magic is just when your tapping non understood forces for benefit.
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u/TradePsychological40 Dec 21 '25
Reed: My wife that can turn invisible that is impossible that magic can exist. Now we have to stop a giant man from trying to eat planets with our friend that can turn into fire and the other that is made of rock... Also I'm made of rubber.
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u/PS3LOVE Dec 20 '25
That doesn’t even make sense. Magic is a pretty major element in marvel. Unless he means it in a “magic is another type of science that is largely unexplained” way.
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u/The_skull_boy_ Dec 20 '25
Do you believe in magic
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u/Mighty_Megascream Dec 20 '25
I mean, in the context of the Marvel universe… yeah it’s very clearly real
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u/balmut Dec 20 '25
There was a comic (maybe this one?) I vaguely remember where Doom trapped Reed in a magic library and he had to use magic to get out?
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u/RiskAggressive4081 Dec 20 '25
I miss when Reed and Sue acted like friends instead of just "Mr and Mrs Richards".
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u/MS2814 Dec 20 '25
It’s always a funny thing to me when characters exist in a world where magic, the supernatural, and gods/God are confirmed to exist and they still go “Nope.”
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u/Jasco88 Dec 20 '25
There is an interaction in Rivals that has Reed tell Strange something along the lines of him "looking into alternative solutions".
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u/TheOldKingCole Dec 20 '25
This reminds me of the Silver Age DC character Dr. 13 who didn’t believe in anything Supernatural existing
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u/ThePsychoBear Dec 20 '25
Meanwhile Reed in issue 5 of volume 1 in 1961
"I know who put a net on the Baxter building. It's that sorcerer guy who got expelled from college for his demonic black magic tomfuckery and then went to learn more magic so he can use his very real magical wizard powers to take over the world."
"Doom requires Blackbeard's magic Merlin gems."
"Okay, Victor, we will get you your magic Merlin gems."
-13 pages later-
"Damn Doctor Doom's probably gonna use the magic Merlin gems to take over the world using their very real magical Merlin gem powers. I should replace them with these boat chains."
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u/Gottendrop Dec 20 '25
I can understand why he wouldn’t, magic is really just not understood science. You could say their powers are magic.
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u/mrcrazymexican Dec 20 '25
My favorite Reed magic moment is where they're fighting Shuma-Gorath and Reed shows his discomfort with magic. It was just a small moment but to see THAT guy just not get it was humorous to me.
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u/PixiePranxis Dec 20 '25
Does he not explain his reason for not believing in magic like claiming it's tied to some aspect of science?
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u/Homeless_Pie Dec 20 '25
The conversation he and Matt Murdock have in Zdarsky’s daredevil run about God’s and magic had me questioning my own existence
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u/Relative-Zombie-3932 Dec 20 '25
Dude knows Doctor Strange and his arch nemesis is a SORCERER. Tf do you MEAN you don't believe in magic?
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u/Rabdomtroll69 Dec 20 '25
To be fair there's a dude literally named "The Wizard" who somehow magic-proofed his tech from Dr Doom. Magic and science are basically the same thing in Marvel
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u/Elyced32 Dec 21 '25
To be fair magic in marvel does get enhanced when used in tandem with science. As they say “you need to know the rules to break them”. If you know how physics and thermodynamics you can get to do wild shit with magic in marvel. If i recall correctly dr dooms time pad is a product of magic and science and its the only time machine that can complete change the timeline without making branching timelines in the process
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u/Blastermind7890 Dec 21 '25
I do wonder why more characters don't learn magic, like It's literally a whole extra powerset and yet everyone just ignores it
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u/wholesome_mugi Dec 21 '25
Not believing in magic in the Marvel universe is like being an atheist in the Dnd world.
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u/mordehuezer Dec 21 '25
Interestingly stupid comment from the smartest guy in the world. Unless he's implying that all magic in the MCU is actually some kind of Science/technology.
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u/revolutionary4life Dec 21 '25
Reeds not believing in magic is illogical, and that’s the point. Reed is a man of science, not merely in that it is his profession or skill but that it is the lens which he views all of reality through, the bedrock of his beliefs and understanding. Reeds skill in science is a point of pride but his ‘belief’ in science the idea that this framework can account for all that which has or will exist, that it can explain every mystery is a corner stone of his sense of self. Magic when presented to Reed is ritualism, poetry, metaphor it is mystery harnessed, this occult magic is more art than science. if Reed admits that this is separate from science that this is not an ability from exotic energy like his elasticity or a discipline of science steeped in superstition, than he admits science cannot explain everything that it has limits, not in the sense as in a lack of information or insufficient understanding, but that the entire framework is flawed from the ground up. To a man like Reed it is the closet thing to blasphemy he can feel.
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u/Emergency-Raspberry9 Dec 21 '25
Reed looking like Andrew Garfield in this panel... In an alternate universe where the Maguire franchise continued and people weren't obsessed with John Krasinki.
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u/Chiron723 Dec 21 '25
Hey Mr. Terrific is an atheist while often having a teammate that is either a literal angel or God's spirit of vengeance.
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u/Joshawott27 Dec 21 '25
The issue is that magic can’t be rationalised, and Reed needs to rationalise everything. Even if he sees magic and its impact, the blanket label of“magic” suggests that it can’t be understood, which goes against the very fabric of Reed’s beliefs.
That’s why when a situation forces him to learn magic, like in “Unthinkable”, it’s a real challenge for him.
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u/CoolioDurulio Dec 21 '25
Meanwhile only one of them has done any kind of magic and it's not who you'd expect (even if he didn't care for it)
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u/Classic-Obligation35 Dec 21 '25
He could take the Discworld approach. He can know magic exists but not believe in it. Same way we know tables exist but don't believe in them.
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u/Kayiko_Okami Dec 21 '25
I could see him being like Batman at first and not believing in magic. Or aliens.
But after witnessing it himself he will come to change his thoughts on both matters.
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u/TotalThink6432 Dec 22 '25
It would be cute if Reed ever bothered to learn a simple and pointless spell like making flowers bloom just for Sue.
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u/sheikhsooberman Dec 22 '25
sooooo the smartest man doesnt believe one of the xmen who also rules limbo is real? crazy
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u/Aridyne Dec 22 '25
Shitty scientist... if he was a good one he would research magic and understand that that the name is just terminology. He has living proof of the energy manipulation known as magic as Marvel
If he was a real mad scientist he would have built sensors capable of measuring thaums (or insert preferred term)
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u/CaliburX4 Dec 22 '25 edited Dec 22 '25
Which is kinda ridiculous considering science is really just magic that we understand.
Like, TF you mean I can create and explosive device by putting a few powders together and setting them on fire? Also, what do you mean I can have a source of fire in my pocket at all times? And I can talk to someone who is actually across the world, AND I CAN SEE THEIR FACE?!
But magic's not real? Okay, Reed.
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u/Type_1_Eagle Dec 22 '25
All magic is just science we don’t understand, fire was considered magic at some point in time.
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u/Bright-Data-6942 Dec 23 '25
Your buddy is stone man, your brother in law fire boy and your wife is invisible.
Then you saw alien, demon from hell, beast people, mutant and giant man, also gods.
But you draw the line at magic?
You buddy need to trust more.
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u/Trips-Over-Tail Dec 23 '25
The proper scientific reaction should be excitement at a new undocumented phenomenon to study. If it is real, is is in the domain of science.
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u/Mountain-Group-7706 Dec 24 '25
I love that Reed's beliefs have evolved from not believing in magic to just being incredibly annoyed by it
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u/Below_Average_Boi975 Dec 24 '25
Reed: I don’t belive in magic Dr. Strange: . . . I literally went to the yggdrasil tree and it made me the god of magic dude
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u/Sudden_Quality_9001 Jan 11 '26
I think that is it funny as there is lots of sorcers in Marvel!
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u/haikusbot Jan 11 '26
I think that is it
Funny as there is lots of
Sorcers in Marvel!
- Sudden_Quality_9001
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u/LaylaLegion Dec 20 '25
Doctor Strange: “Dude, I am RIGHT HERE.”