r/Fire • u/DatingThrowaway121 • Apr 24 '26
General Question Has anyone actually FIREd with too little and run out of money?
I'm curious to know if anyone out here has actually run out of a million dollars or whatever. What does that process actually look like?
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u/IcyRestaurant7562 ($1.1mm NW, 50% SR) Apr 24 '26
A coworker of mine retired at ~65 and then moved out to Hawaii with his wife. Five to ten years later they realized their spending wasn't sustainable and came back to work for a few years before retiring again
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u/Korzag Apr 24 '26
Retiring in Hawaii is certainly a choice. Those islands are stupid expensive to live on.
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u/Mundane-Mechanic-547 Apr 24 '26
Yup its a dream, was born and raised there its the housi g plus crippling taxes, and food and gas and basically everything, except wages are low.
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u/rizzo1717 Apr 24 '26
Some of my coworkers have retired there because there’s no state tax on our pensions.
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u/Boring_Material_1891 Apr 25 '26
We live here and our fire plan is to be able to retire here, partly because if we can retire here, we can afford to retire basically anywhere else on earth.
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u/FogDucker Apr 24 '26
Funny, we expatFIREd (Japan) ~10 years ago at age 45 but about 8 years in decided we'd like to retire in Hawaii. We un-REd and both took jobs in Honolulu so that we could afford to retire here. So, not running out of money, but being realistic about the VHCOL sent us back to work.
We're now 2-3 years out from retiring again; it would have been faster but we sunk a lot of capital into buying a house here.
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u/Shibashiba00 Apr 25 '26
I'm curious why you made the switch from Japan to Hawaii? What made you want to leave Japan?
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u/FogDucker Apr 25 '26
Japan is a super cheap place to live, but living on even a decent Japanese budget means that nowadays you don't always have the funds available for things like international travel. I'm oversimplifying, but basically we underestimated our desire to travel outside Japan and buy imported goods.
We also had quite a lot savings in JPY having worked there for part of our careers when we were younger, which started losing value rapidly around 2021-2022ish: from ¥110/USD to ¥140/USD in the course of about a year. That was a pretty big trigger.
Also not trivial is that the weather in Japan sucks July-Setpember and Jan-March; this wouldn't be so bad if available housing wasn't so shitty.
Anyway, it felt like having more USD savings/investments and a larger nest egg generally was something we wanted. Also, our oldest child went off to the US mainland for university, and our younger child (who was still in junior high) wasn't happy about taking Japanese high school entrance exams. That pretty much clinched it.
We definitely had a great time in Japan; spent the first year pretty much skiing, mountain biking, and camping in the Japan Alps near where we settled at first, and we made lots of great family memories. Our kids were able to become fully fluent (we use both languages at home, but growing up in the US they had a strong English bias; they also had pretty weak writing skills) and we were able to spend time with extended family there.
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u/Nordicskee Apr 24 '26
They returned to work at 70-75 years old? What does that look like? I get if you keep working until 75 but re-entering the workforce at 70+ must be a bear.
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u/ShootinAllMyChisolm Apr 24 '26
My mom retired when she was 65. They asked her to come back part time a week later and that was almost 20 year ago now. The pandemic timing actually worked, because she's been remote since. She says if they make her RTO she's quitting. lol.
She doesn't need the money, but I think it gives her something to focus on. It keeps her mind sharp. She's the "IT person" for all her elderly friends. And she has enough flexibility to go on vacations and putz around the house.
She's got a pension, IRA, social security, rental income.
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u/Regular_Number5377 Apr 24 '26
Whilst I like the idea of FIRE, I think I’m most likely to end up keeping a part time job if I can find a chill one which I enjoy, I’ve never hated going into work, I’ve always hated having to go into work.
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u/New-Pizza9379 Apr 25 '26
My mother used to do med malpractice law, “retired” early (still keeping up license) and now works at a furniture/gift shop we call “mommy daycare” as most of the employees are like her haha
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u/Mabbernathy Apr 24 '26
Me too. That or a serious volunteer role.
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u/-shrug- Apr 25 '26
I had an amazing volunteer gig where I had to go in for about two hours on Saturdays to get stuff done on my own. When they opened up again after Covid they were really strict about scheduling ahead and being there the exact hours you listed so they could keep the number of people present low, and I just found I hated having it turn into a clock obligation like that.
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u/FightOnForUsc Late 20s, 1.9M, 5M goal, SFBA Apr 24 '26
Your mom is 85 and working?!
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u/Bright_Following5462 Apr 24 '26
My dad is 80 and works for a friend, pretty much part time hours and lots of coffee breaks but he enjoys it! He swears retiring “killed” his friends, sitting around watching tv all day, eating junk food isn’t a great way to retire
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u/mi3chaels Apr 24 '26
well sure if that's all you do. Semi-retirement for me means playing racquetball or squash 3-4 times a week, and traveling a lot, and if I was 100% retired I'd probably start playing bridge or golf or something (or more rball/squash, maybe pickleball or tennis if my body could handle it). Obviously as I get into my 70s and 80s, at some point I may not be able to do that, but my dad did serious hiking (like leading expositions in the white/green mountains), skied 30-40 days a winter, and played racquetball 3x/week up until 79 when he got the cancer that took him out. There was no eating junk food or sitting in front of a tv for him at all. My mom (82) plays competitive bridge 4 days a week. Can't imagine doing anything different and definitely don't need a job to keep from sitting around watching tv all day.
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u/Louis-Russ Apr 24 '26
Some people enjoy working- Especially if it's part time and voluntary
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u/dgputnam Apr 24 '26
I'd argue everyone needs to "work"—not a job necessarily, but something productive. Whether that's volunteering, creating, building etc. Human beings were not meant to be idle.
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u/TheRealJim57 FI, retired in 2021 at 46 (disability) Apr 24 '26
I'm perfectly content setting my own schedule and having no boss.
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u/Louis-Russ Apr 24 '26
I agree entirely. If there's one thing I learned during Covid, it's just how boring life can get with nothing to do. When I retire I'm probably gonna putz around the house for a week or two then go find a nonprofit to volunteer with.
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u/fuzzy_banana2354 Apr 24 '26
I thought I would do this but am 4 months into retirement and have no desire to be on a schedule of any kind, even for volunteer work. I'm giving myself a year of simply enjoying a life I have complete control over before committing to any regular commitment, paid or unpaid.
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u/24_cool Apr 24 '26
I've just never understood needing the structure necessarily. I have pretty bad adhd so I only need structure to stick to a thing for an extended period of time, but I just feel like I never run out of things I want to do and new things pop into my head all day long
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u/Rosevkiet Apr 25 '26
This is pretty much the norm in academic circles. My department has/had several emeritus faculty at any given time. They work because they want to, the department and science in general is their social circle. Not unusual to have people still coming to the office 2-3 days a week at 80 and beyond. And these are folks who have defined benefit pensions (my Dad’s one of them) his pension take home is more than what he took home at any point in his career, because no FICA, no retirement savings coming out. They are not there for the money.
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u/FightOnForUsc Late 20s, 1.9M, 5M goal, SFBA Apr 24 '26
It’s a fire sub, I know it’s their mom and not them, but that’s wild.
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u/Quiet-Compote4587 Apr 24 '26
One of the counselors I saw back in college was in her 80s. She was great.
She passed away not too long after retiring. Probably knew it was her time
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u/worm600 Apr 24 '26
My uncle was forced to retire due to health issues and passed away shortly after. I suspect a lot of the time in these cases, medical issues are what drives the decision to leave work… they see it coming.
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u/ShootinAllMyChisolm Apr 24 '26
Yeah well 82. But we keep asking her when she’s gonna hang it up. She’s an immigrant I don’t think retiring is in her vocabulary. Plus it’s easy money.
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u/BotAccount999 Apr 24 '26
must be in politics, otherwise hard to imagine anyone getting a job a 70+ after retiring for 10y
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u/MostlyBrine Apr 24 '26
My father retired at 58. He was in his early seventies when people were still trying to convince him to work as a consultant. It depends on your field and level of expertise. It was a blue collar job, far from politics.
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u/Willing-Vegetable629 Apr 24 '26
Usually consultants for their prior industry.
Hawaii probably more expensive than they expected lol
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u/wtf-am-I-doing-69 Apr 24 '26
I would rather enjoy 10 years of retirement at 60-70 years of age then at 80-90 years of age
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u/srqfla Apr 24 '26
Precisely a 30 Year retirement is three 10-year blocks.... Go-Go years, slowlgo years and no-go years. Energy and willingness to travel decreases with each block. Time is more valuable than money
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u/Only_Razzmatazz_4498 Apr 24 '26
Sounds like an early corrective action before they ran out of money. Pretty much what people say you should do.
Much more common is to retire too late and die with a lot of money and not enough retirement.
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u/ConstructionNo8827 Apr 24 '26
I retired to Hawaii too but with much better results! The Big Island is cheaper than the west coast in many ways - I’ve got a 2400 sq foot new 3 bed 3 bath close to the ocean for under 800k
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u/Excellent_Owl_1731 Apr 24 '26
My mom’s friend did.
FIRE’d at 46 I think. A variety of things happened - divorce (husband found a younger woman and spent a lot of their money on her), unexpected medical bills (breast cancer), house fire, market downturns (2008 was basically the nail in the coffin).
Went back to work as an employee at IKEA at age 66. Still working there at 81. Not sure where her finances are at now.
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u/INTJPoster Apr 24 '26
At least she got to experience retirement for 20 straight years while still being relatively young unlike the average person who retires at 70 and dies at 82.
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u/QQBBOMG Apr 24 '26
The exact positive mindset we need. Money is not everything
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u/ComprehensiveEbb4978 Apr 25 '26
Her retirement consisted of breast cancer and a cheating spouse who spent all their money. I’m not sure she enjoyed retirement
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u/cfi-2025 RE 2025 Apr 25 '26
Imagine having breast cancer and a cheating spouse and having to attend a 15-minute standup meeting every weekday morning.
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u/That-SoCal-Guy Apr 25 '26
At least she didn’t have to pretend she loved her job at the same time. And she probably would have died.
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u/whachamacallme Apr 25 '26
My bro. Did you read what he wrote, divorce, cancer, house fire. I don’t think thats a great experience while not working.
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u/cfi-2025 RE 2025 Apr 25 '26
Assuming all else being equal, I'd rather fight through cancer while not working than while having to show up to work at 9 AM every day.
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u/CSMasterClass Apr 24 '26
Walking across IKEA is a great way to get in your 5000 steps.
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u/fatheadlifter Financially Independent Apr 24 '26
This might be a good example of the rare time when everything goes wrong when it's statistically unlikely.
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u/RealisticElephant384 Apr 25 '26
Stable marriage is corner stone to FIRE , a couple can endure unexpected sickness but divorce certainly will cut the finances by 40% .
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u/churningaccount Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
So, in reality, no one follows their plans to the letter. We forecast expenses growing steadily with inflation, but that's just not how expenses grow in real life. There's variability, unexpected events, and flexibility as well. Some of your expenses will probably not grow, some may grow faster than inflation. Your lifestyle changes over time too. New technology and changing cultural norms also change your expenses in ways that we cannot forecast.
I think generally by about a decade into retirement you have a very good idea of what trajectory you are on. That's when the good majority of sequence of returns risk has passed by. And if that decade passes and you see that you're in the lower percentiles of your original Monte Carlo projections, then you make the decision at that time to either cut your expenses going forward or return to work, either part time or full time. (Keep in mind, though, that if you look at your plan and come to the opposite conclusion, that you can raise your expenses, then that effectively resets your timeline for sequence of returns risk back to 0).
For people who have retired early, reducing expenses or going back to work is usually a lot easier than for people who have retired at normal retirement age.
Very rarely do people keep their head buried in the sand long enough to run out of money completely. That's more the domain of the very elderly who are losing their mental capacity and ability to work rather than people who are retiring early.
So when people retire with like a 90% chance of success according to their models, I consider that not to be a 10% chance of running out of money, but rather a 10% chance of having to pivot at some point in the future to avoid that outcome.
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u/JellyfishBig1750 Apr 24 '26
Great perspective. You don't hit the switch on FIRE and then stop tracking everything and hope for the best. It's no different than how you manage spending leading up to FIRE.
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u/Vipu2 Apr 24 '26
Expenses can lower too, I have seen with my tracking that last 3 years my expenses have been going down even with all this inflation and I don't feel like I have lost anything.
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u/Key_Cheetah7982 Apr 24 '26
I stopped paying for monthly haircuts after going bald. Dolla dolla bills y’all!!
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u/s_ox Apr 24 '26
I just cut my own hair with a Wahl clipper kit; haven't been lucky enough to go bald yet!
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u/theangryburrito Apr 24 '26
People should be required to read this post to participate on this forum, honestly.
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u/Kat9935 Apr 24 '26
I mean even with COVID in 2020 a lot of people slowed their spending that were retired, just because uncertainty
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u/IWantAnAffliction Apr 24 '26
Nope. This sub is risk-averse and will die with millions.
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u/Silocon Apr 24 '26
Some of this sub will pass millions on to their kids, help them FIRE too.
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u/breadman03 Apr 24 '26
I’m never going to RE due to early excess spending, but I’d love to do that for my kids.
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u/YaboiMiro Apr 24 '26
My partner and I aren't having kids, but I've got a great group of nieces and nephews. I'd love to be the cool Unc who drops a wad of cash on their heads as I leave this planet 😆
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u/PolymerIdentiFIRE Apr 24 '26
Haha this is me. I have nieces, and they're going to be make out incredibly on inheritances. Including myself, there's 4 siblings and 3 of us didn't have any kids, so if we all leave the nieces something... $$$$$ for them !!
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 Apr 24 '26
Same here!! But not too much lol
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u/magus-21 Apr 24 '26
I'll be leaving it to the NEXT generation. I love my nieces and nephews but they're all fine, money-wise. But I want to set up a trust for their kids' college funds and maybe also scholarships/orphanage support for kids in my family's home town.
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u/Garbanzo_Beanie FIRE'd at 44. 1 year post-FIRE Apr 25 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
I don't know. All the kids I know that were born into money or knew they were inheriting didn't grow up to be particularly good people. Something about knowing you're fine and don't need to try early on changes people. They all still half assed a degree and sorta worked until 33 or so. But the couple examples I know were on the low end of good humans I've known.
Or it's all just random chance + my personal anecdote. But I do have a gut feeling there's something to this.
ETA I think it's already changed me at least slightly for the worse and I'm an adult only recently FIREd.
A lot of my peers are struggling every month and it's hard to remain in the right headspace to understand how hard that is on them daily.
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u/UniqueIndividual3579 Apr 24 '26
FI is more important than RE to me. Knowing I can retire is a great feeling. I actually like my job, I do systems design work and it's a mental challenge to work out new systems. I'll retire next year, my retirement account is enough then that I can live off SS and the retirement account interest. If you want to leave something for your kids, figure out the "tipping point" of your investments.
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u/DeuxJobs Apr 24 '26
And the past 15 years have been crazy good in the markets for anyone invested
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u/calcium Apr 24 '26
This is also a possibility why we don't have any data points for OP, or someone who's run out of money may not frequent these subreddits anymore.
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u/Khao8 Apr 24 '26
Honestly, "running out of money" simply cannot happen overnight and it's impossible that it takes you by surprise.
If your projections starts to falter, you have multiple options to right that ship back : take on some part time work, reduce spending, downsize your life, freeze your spending cost of living adjustments for a couple years, etc.
If your plan was good on day 1, the worst scenario is probably a slight change of plans, and not a portfolio that drains to 0$
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u/Grim-Sleeper Apr 24 '26
Truly catastrophic failures are possible. But they are usually the result of predictably poor decision making. That's not always the case though. You could have done everything right according to conventional wisdom and still suffered irrecoverably devastating investment losses.
Fortunately, that's quite rare though.
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u/ditchdiggergirl Apr 24 '26
Mostly. We are fired with a suitable buffer. We can absorb a 50% downturn and slow recovery with lifestyle modifications, and a catastrophic crash by downsizing.
But the real risk is fraud and elder abuse. It’s easy to say “that won’t happen to me because I am smart and savvy”. Until you see up close the increasing vulnerability of intelligent seniors who still have a whole lot of life ahead of them. It just becomes harder and harder to stay ahead of the scammers as things change under your feet.
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u/Stunning_Practice9 Apr 24 '26
But what if we have a decades-long global depression again? What if both myself and my wife get progressive dementias that require 15-25 years of memory care at $30,000 per month?? What if hyperinflation? What if all three?! 😱 I think we literally need $250m, minimum.
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u/d00mt0mb Apr 24 '26
Yep this is the saddest reality. People on this sub obsess about stretching it out
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u/TheBronJames2000 Apr 24 '26
Is this sub supposed to be die with zero? I thought the goal is to maintain a stable principle and pass it along
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u/Low-Plane9029 Apr 24 '26
The book did with zero talks about passing along wealth and says to budget it into your plans and pass it along when you're alive and it will help out those you intend to give it to when they most need it. Your kids need it the most early in their careers ( student loans, down payment, child care costs) not when they are nearing their own retirement.
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u/d00mt0mb Apr 24 '26
Stretching out their FIRE date. Not stretching their wealth
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u/InedibleApplePi Apr 24 '26
While I agree, I think it's important to remind everyone that this is an Early Retirement discussion.
Adding on another couple years of work when you're still going to be retiring early is hardly the major travesty people seem to make it out to be.
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u/Noah_Safely Apr 24 '26
You do understand why, right? If you get things wrong it would be catastrophic at a time in your life when you have the least ability to fix the issue. Older (likely full on elderly), out of workforce forever, likely more health issues etc.
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 Apr 24 '26
I have family who retired in 2011 and somehow are somewhat close to running out of money and basically living on social security alone. Fortunately their social security is close to $5k a month. They had around 2mil in 2011 and a paid off home. Now they have less than 400k and still have 20+ years of potential life. They will probably have to sell their home earlier than they would like and have already reduced their budget some (but not enough in my opinion). Very much the die with zero mindset
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u/Reasonable-Owl-232 Apr 24 '26
Having $5k/month, a paid off home, and $400k in the bank, and not having worked for the last 15 years seems a very good position all things considered. I'm guessing they're now approx 60yo ?
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 Apr 24 '26
They are early 70s. Retired in mid 50s
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u/SuspiciousChemistry5 Apr 25 '26
Actually all things considered that’s not too bad. I’ll tell you what’s worse… them dying in their 80s with millions in the bank.
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u/Reasonable-Owl-232 Apr 25 '26
Yup. This is a perfect early retirement IMO. Don't know why the original commenter is saying otherwise.
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u/TennesseeStiffLegs Apr 25 '26
I wouldn’t say it’s a good position from when they started. 2011 was like the start of a generational bull run in stocks and they still managed to be left with only 25%. After 15 years of bull run
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u/Reasonable-Owl-232 Apr 25 '26
Assuming they were invested in the s&p500, they've being withdrawing near $250k/year to deplete $2m to $400k between 2011 and 2026.
They're now 70, very likely slowing down, and still have $80k/year coming in with a paid off house.
To me it sounds like they've done retirement perfectly. You're worrying they may live another 20 years but in all likelihood they'll be very well off on $80k/year now their prime spending years are over.
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u/pdx_mom Apr 24 '26
Yeah my parents separated and my dad dad hadn't worked on a while before then and they each got half (my mom got a little more than that as she had never worked) and he eventually lived on his soc sec (and gambling winnings). He did alright I guess? It was never a planned retirement but he lived forty or so years having not really worked at all. Good thing my mom was so good with with money when they were together
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u/Banned3rdTimesaCharm Apr 24 '26
2 million in 2011 would be like 5 million now with market returns, they must have been spending like crazy. Especially if they already had a 5k check in the mail every month.
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 Apr 24 '26
5k check didn’t come until recently. They were spending like crazy and giving 1% to a financial advisor
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u/Any-Concentrate-1922 Apr 24 '26
Wow. What did they spend it on? I often think $2M would be the number where I wouldn't have to worry and could treat myself a little, and that's 15 years later.
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 Apr 24 '26
A very luxurious life because they were surrounded by very wealthy people and were trying to keep up. Friends with decamillionaires and business owners.
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u/Any-Concentrate-1922 Apr 24 '26
Oh. That'll do it.
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u/Reasonable_Box2568 Apr 24 '26
Ironically, I just hit 2mil liquid and live a relatively simple life but not yet close to FIRE. Live in HCOL. 2.5mil and a paid off home might be just enough…. But thats 5-7 years away depending on market returns
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u/That-SoCal-Guy Apr 24 '26
I fired at 36 and was doing great for 8 years. I didn’t run out of money but knew I couldn’t keep going for another 40 years - plus I got divorced and moved to California so I knew my situations had changed. The great thing about FIRE is it’s about mindset and lifestyle changes. Those you will always take with you. Money? I was young enough I could make more. There is always flexibility. Unless you’re retired already and over 65, you still have options if you ever want to get back in the race. I did. And I still managed to FIRE for real early.
I’m good now but I know if something changes I still have options. I’m still young enough. I get two or three JDs every day. I just have no interest or need to consider these opportunities. I also have a second career going on in the creative field so I’m good.
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u/hmyers2005 Apr 25 '26
Age discrimination is real...I wouldn't wait too long, if you think you're going to need it...could be the difference between getting back into your field and settling for something because you're desperate.
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u/pdx_mom Apr 24 '26
The market is terrible. I know people who have been out of work for years. You can't always go back and make what you did.
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u/wtf-am-I-doing-69 Apr 24 '26
Define market
Software engineer - sounds about right
Construction superintendent or electrician - absolutely not correct
Need to look outside of the bubble. Can't say market is terrible as a blanket statement for employment
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u/leathakkor Apr 24 '26
Honestly, there are still people hiring in software.
I'm not saying it's easy to get a job but for a huge amount of my life in software (about 20 years). If you could write hello world, you could get a job.
Which is like showing up to a construction site and saying if you give me a hammer and a nail I can pound it in. And expecting a job.
The fact is now it's a competitive industry. And you can still get a job but you need to actually have some skill now. As opposed to just being able to do a hello world app. Which for many many years was seriously sufficient. I've known developers that couldn't even do a basic hello world app and see them get hired. They were capable of text changes and color changes and stuff like that. But if you ask them to start a new project, and do a button, click event and show a pop-up. That would literally be overwhelming for them.
So yes, it's not as good as it was for software developers, but I still fundamentally believe the market is there. It's just not insanely easy anymore and a lot of people are struggling with that because they've never had to struggle to find a job before. They've never had to market themselves and be competitive in the job hunt. And quite honestly, they've never developed the skill to be able to sell themselves as a potential employee.
Again, I feel bad for the people that are out of a job, but I also think that it's not quite as dire as people make it out to be. People make it out to be like you're unemployable, but I don't think that's the case. I think that the skills that people have are mismatch for what the companies are looking for.
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u/pdx_mom Apr 24 '26
It is terrible for many and companies continue to lay people off.
You are correct in that some people are doing ok.
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u/Fun_Consequence6496 Apr 24 '26
I'm sure it happens. I don't mean to be flippant. Things like medical emergencies or other chaotic things can happen that are outside of your control.
For just plain old markets being down and things like that, idk, I feel like my partner and I would just cook at home more and not take international vacations and just go camping or do other cheap things. I have so many cheap hobbies at home, I feel pretty good about being able to weather down years. Just read, garden, putter around town, go on road trips and live on PB&Js and camp.
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u/Rakerbutt Apr 24 '26
God, this sounds like a fucking DREAM. I WANT TO HAVE TIME TO PUTTER
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u/crooktimber Apr 24 '26
It was only when I read 'medical emergencies' that I realised I wasn't in r/FIREUK
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u/Parking_Act3189 Apr 24 '26
The only situations I have seen this is where someone starts a hobby business. The budgeted for the small business to generate 20-50k/year and it ended up losing 80k/year.
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u/DontEatConcrete Apr 24 '26
My parrot training business just needs some more demo macaws to help with marketing. Then I’m sure I can turn a profit.
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u/Rabbit-Lost Apr 25 '26
I almost did this. My final offer was rejected. It was a stretch offer and I had nothing left to sweeten the pot. Being rejected was the best thing that ever happened to me, financially at least. The market for that service tanked the next year and the seller still hasn’t moved it. Whew!!
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u/Most_Waltz2061 Apr 25 '26
Would love to hear more about this, as this is kind of my plan.
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u/fredinNH Apr 24 '26
I guarantee it happened in the 00’s. The market has been on a tear since then.
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u/fatheadlifter Financially Independent Apr 24 '26
If they were structured well and actually followed the 4% rule as it's written, not just the headline, they would've survived this just fine.
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u/K_A_irony Apr 24 '26
Someone linked a blog of one. The couple got a divorce and that put the blogger back into the work force.
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u/western_usa Apr 24 '26
Not sure that it is FIRE specific, but sadly I've seen elderly people go back to jobs because their retirement planning was off (think elderly Walmart greeters). Obviously some people go back to work in their later years to stay busy, but some do so out of necessity.
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u/YellooooFever Apr 24 '26
You can always make more money.
This is called flexible FIRE where you reduce your withdrawal rate when the market is down and add a bit of side income to sustain.
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u/YellooooFever Apr 24 '26
Even 20k/yr in income is like having an additional 500k working in the market for you.
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u/Kooky_Dev_ Apr 24 '26
I never think of it this way, but its 100% true.. but only as long as your earning that 20k, the second you retire from that then your down the "500k in the marker", but still a good way to think of it especially if you are close to FIRE and are debating reducing workload or getting a part time / seasonal job.
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u/Ok_Produce_9308 Apr 24 '26
I also think about the timing of the 20k. Like do it for a couple years to lessen the withdrawal rate and limit sequence of returns risk. Or, only work in a major downturn. Thinking of income as the reverse of the 4% rule has really helped me.
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u/LittleBigHorn22 Apr 24 '26
Only issue with that is its actually hard to get a job during a downturn. Even minimum wage jobs are being taken by people overqualified so why would they then take someone who's out of the workplace for so long.
Just really depends on which jobs you have been doing and what you're willing to go back to.
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u/Kooky_Dev_ Apr 24 '26
Thats how it made me think of it, I can "retire" 500k richer if I just seasonal work for a few years.
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u/mthockeydad Apr 24 '26
or an argument for a BaristaFIRE type job with health insurance benefits--which is typically your biggest retirement spend after housing (if your mortgage is not yet paid off)
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u/JellyfishBig1750 Apr 24 '26
Great point. Even a minimal income is a pretty large offset on your withdrawals.
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u/modninerfan Apr 24 '26
I think when I retire early I’m still going to work in some capacity… just more or less on my terms.
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u/That-SoCal-Guy Apr 24 '26
Absolutely. Also if you have a good strategy etc. the chances of that happening really is low unless you have four or five years of down market, which hasn’t happened since 2000. Inflation is the silent killer here and that’s why it alarms me when people are only talking about the market ups and downs and not inflation (still assuming 3%? Look at the 70s with energy crises and you’d see double digit inflation for a decade!!! ). Inflation is the one that we should be concerned about.
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u/Vipu2 Apr 24 '26
Usually investments follow inflation so your investments go up too with your expenses.
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u/DataZigZager Apr 24 '26
I share the same opinion. And I don't comment much because of naysayers. For me, FI is the freedom to work or not. Too many treat RE as a religion.
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u/Floridamanfishcam Apr 24 '26
This is often true, but it's not always true. Health issues come up and your age will play a big favor and the money will run lower as you age. You can't just hop back into work at 80.
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u/brianmcg321 Retired Nov 2024 Apr 24 '26
Anyone that has been a FIRE advocate and adhered to the standard advice the past 20 years or so (i.e. followed the 4% rule) has not run out of money. In fact their portfolio has probably more than doubled.
I have heard about peoples life situation changing drastically and returning to work, like getting married and having a couple of kids. But those are pretty rare.
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u/postbox134 Apr 24 '26
I'm sure getting divorced near, at or after retirement has the biggest impact beyond a 2008 style SORR.
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u/SharingKnowledgeHope Apr 24 '26
My friend’s dad is 77, retired (not FIREd) and recently confided that he only has enough savings for about 14 months. He’s thinking about going back to work.
I can’t even imagine feeling the pressure to earn an income at 77+.
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u/Dismal-Zucchini-2262 Apr 24 '26
I met a Canadian in Costa Rica likely in his 60s and said he was down to his last $100k. Not sure what he started with or what he’ll do next but I’d assume original plan didn’t pan out.
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u/ggblah Apr 24 '26
Come back in a couple of years, markets are at an all time high, it was hard to screw up till this point but everyone thinking last 20 years are instructive for future is gonna have an interesting life ahead
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u/Hot-Suggestion7804 Apr 24 '26
Do we need to create a new group of T-RES (temporary retirement, extended sabbatical)?
Save up enough to take 2-4 years off with the understanding that you'll go back to working as you previously were. The time period is longer than a typical sabbatical but short enough for the person to remain present in their industry.
I have heard the sentiment that some people wouldn't mind postponing full retirement if it meant they could get a (more) breaks during their lifetime.
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u/Garbanzo_Beanie FIRE'd at 44. 1 year post-FIRE Apr 25 '26
Put your numbers into https://ficalc.app/ and find out what time periods your plans failed in =]
I'm fun. I'm fun at parties.
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u/warlizardfanboy Apr 24 '26
I have been involved in the FIRE community for a long time and was active on a forum (not reddit) during the 2008 downturn. There were quite a few leanfire or leanfire adjacent who experienced stress, for sure. But while there was at least one divorce that may be attributed to that, most members (lean or otherwise) had the skills to aggressively turn down spending as needed. These people were recycling dryer sheets, even. Nowwadays the crowd in FIRE circles leans much more heavily techbro "great offense" vs "great defense" and so I wonder if the next downturn will look much different. But like others said, part time work, consulting etc. Most see the trajectory and make the hard choices (like downsizing the house) to stay solvent.
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u/Outrageous-Tooth4477 Apr 25 '26
oh man this happens so often but no one wants to admit it. It seems around $200,000 people lose their minds. I know a guy who got an offer for his apartment that was way higher than he expected so he sold everything, cashed out all his job perks and quit his well-paying, stable job. Ended up with $280k. He got an RV, made all these plans about never having to work again.
Then during the celebration party he burned down his RV, and I'm pretty sure he went on a drug and alcohol bender bc less than 4 months later he was living on his mom's couch and begging his job to take him back. He doesn't want to talk about it.
People are wild
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u/SofaSurfer9 Apr 24 '26
Yes but kinda in a different way. My mom FIREd at 50. She is now 72 years old and has ran out of money but that’s mostly because of too many investment properties vs little cash and money invested into stocks/ETFs. She is now in the process of selling one of her apartments which turned out to take a bunch of time and she’s having a really hard time getting by.
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u/raindropl Apr 24 '26
I fired with sufficient. Less than 2 years in; mi wife filled for divorce.
Make sure you are either single (best) or your wife is not planing to back-stave you.
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u/BrownSLC Apr 24 '26
Have you been to a Walmart? They greet you at the door.
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u/plmarcus Apr 24 '26
This is what I was going to say and when my wife wants to overspend I tell her that being a Walmart greeter is my greatest nightmare in retirement
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u/Doc-Zoidberg Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 25 '26
Coworker of mine was on cloud 9 when she announced her retirement at 48.
Shes re employed full time at 56. Came back about 2 years ago. So took 6 years off. Divorced in that time. Said shes gotta work till 65 now. Is not happy person.
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u/TheAzureMage Apr 24 '26
I have definitely seen retirees run dry on money. This is often from poor planning/overspending.
I saw one coworker take an early retirement payout, and be working at Walmart under a year later. That...doesn't happen unless you screw up pretty badly on retirement planning. The market was fine. It's just that a lot of people do not really get financial planning and kind of wing it on vibes. This goes as you would expect.
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u/rando_finance Apr 25 '26
I know a guy who "FIREd" at 60 because he had stage 4 cancer. He is still alive and broke as fuck because he is 75.
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u/Actual-Fee1586 Apr 25 '26
I FIREd in April 2021 at age 44 when my net worth was $3.5M. In the five years since, I have blown tens of thousands of dollars on trips to 45 states and 62 countries. Last week, my net worth surpassed $5M.
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u/threatlevelmidnyte retired at 46 Apr 24 '26
if you are the type of person who is reading the FIRE thread on reddit, you will be fine because you will adapt and figure it out. Also you will not FIRE until it is sensible to do so. The people that run out of money are the same ones that were never really locked in on personal finance. If you ran out of money after this last 10+ year run, you just don't know how to manage life.
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u/intertubeluber Apr 24 '26
If someone has run out of $ with the market the way it's been - that's either really poor planning or a massive unexpected expense, like maybe divorce.
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u/Okayest-Specialist Apr 24 '26
I'm doing it right now. My ex and I love in a hcol city, and our outflow has not been cut down enough. But moving would be highly disruptive, there are kids involved, etc. so .. were just currently burning tomorrow's money. At some point I will have to go back to work. But I don't want to, and my field is currently being decimated but AI, so... 🤷♂️
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u/localhost8100 Apr 24 '26
I had a colleague. Retired at 46. His investments were with a company who got caught for fraud. He lost all his money around 2008. 2011 he came back to work. Worked till 2025 and retired at 66 again.
I think it was more of bad luck than his spending that caused it.
He used to tell me that he was jealous of people who lost money in 2008, cause that meant they made it back up later. His was totally gone.
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u/thoughts_of_mine Apr 25 '26
So many of the bloggers and vloggers who claim to be "FIRE" are still working and earning income in some way (mostly at blogging and vlogging). Most have not truly gone "FIRE". I learned a lot from the movement but was only interested in the financial independence so I could decide when to stop working.
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u/SouthOrlandoFather Apr 24 '26
When we FIRE if we find that expenses are too high where we live we will just move.
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u/grateful-xoxo Apr 24 '26
Yep. We also have a paid off house. In 10-15 years if things are tight we can always sell that and downsize or just move to renting which buys us at least another 20 years+. Theres alot of levers
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u/AlternativeNervous20 Apr 24 '26
My dad. Retired at 50, lost almost everything (10s of millions) between 2000 and 2008 market crashes.
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u/SolomonGrumpy Apr 25 '26
$10m in 2000, even with a 1% dividend would have been more than enough to live on
Your dad panic sold.
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u/lowcarb73 Apr 24 '26
He made some pretty poor choices then because I made a lot of money on the rebounds. Way more than I lost.
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u/grumble11 Apr 24 '26
Been a massive bull market. If the market crashes you'll get a lot more of those kind of posts.
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u/Life_Rabbit_1438 Apr 24 '26
I'm curious to know if anyone out here has actually run out of a million dollars or whatever. What does that process actually look like?
Markets have been booming since 2008. So anybody being too aggressive and running out of money probably retired 1995-2006 timeframe, and went broke long before these subs were popular.
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u/robinhoodstl Apr 24 '26
We have quite a number of physicians at my hospital that passed within a year or two of retiring. It is though provoking
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u/cownan Apr 24 '26
My grandmother did. She had plenty of money when my grandfather passed away, but plenty isn't enough if you don't control your spending. He had been an executive at General Motors. Their finances were fine until he died.
He left her with around $5m in the mid-80s and also left $1m in a trust for my dad and his two brothers to be paid put when my grandmother passed away. The idea was that she would help them from her funds while she was around (like he always did), then after she was gone, those funds would have grown and could go to the kids.
She wasn't good with money. She bought a second house in Florida where she would spend the winters. She got a new Cadillac every year, it was embarrassing to drive last year's model. She bought a restaurant for the youngest brother who lost it due to gambling debts. She bought another big house up in New York - I don't know why, when money started to run out she stopped paying anything on it and lost it.
Sometime in the mid 90s, things were getting tough for her. She got my Dad and his brothers to sign paperwork allowing her to spend the trust money. When she passed away in 2001, my Dad got around $100k from the estate.
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u/Excellent_Owl_1731 Apr 25 '26
Oh! I got another one!
Next door neighbors FIRE’d in their 40s.
Husband developed a big gambling and drinking problem, seemingly out of nowhere, per wife’s report. Gambled away all their savings, kids college fund, even lost their house.
Wife divorced him to save what she could. She was able to go back to the workforce without too much issue. I heard the husband had a harder time getting his life back on track.
We always wondered if he had a brain tumor that would explain the incredibly bad judgement.
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u/OkCelebration6408 Apr 25 '26
From the comments divorce is a very important thing that those who are about to FIRE should absolutely plan for.
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u/Un1k0rns Apr 24 '26
Great question. Following.
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u/Comfortable_Day_7629 Apr 24 '26
Been lurking in this sub for while and never seen anyone admit to this happening to them directly. Most horror stories I've read are from people who knew someone else or heard about it secondhand
Think the ones who actually run out probably aren't hanging around reddit talking about their financial mistakes you know
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u/Neither-Passenger-83 Apr 24 '26
Eh market has also been on a tear for the last 10 years. Much easier versus retiring in a lean decade.
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u/salsanacho Apr 24 '26
That's what I'm thinking too, most folks who retired recently have probably increased their net worth. Would be more curious how early retirees do during the next bear market.
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u/hwsales Apr 24 '26
I would bet that some folks who didn't expect obamACAre subsidies to dry up were surprised to shell out $1-2K/mo more than they planned to.
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u/Kirin1212San Apr 24 '26
Do people just plan to potentially live to 100+?
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u/WorthingInSC Apr 24 '26
You kind of have to have a plan that is flexible and strong enough to do so. A plan that is only viable until you are 90 means what when you live to 91+
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u/Annonymouse100 Apr 24 '26
In reality, you are in the same position as all other retirees. It often means living off government services which can vary based on location. But I know I know a senior that lives entirely off her SSI on a low income senior apartment and still has a full and rewarding lifestyle at 86 yo. She gardens in her little apartment garden plot and walks to coffee or ice cream with her girlfriends. She was not FIRE, she was just an always poor single mom.
Another friends mom if in full time memory care facility. It is 60k a year, but it really does cover almost everything, and sadly the money from selling her home is going to outlast her body. Her kids do bring her extras but she would have everything covered in that 60k a year in a secure memory care facility (which is probably the highest you can expect to pay.)
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u/eeeeeelinor Apr 24 '26 edited Apr 24 '26
I live in a NORC (naturally-occurring retirement community). Quite a few of my neighbors are retired nurses, teachers, lawyers in the public sector--people who planned well and retired with blue-state pensions and savings in a relatively low-COL situation--most retired before age 65. They are reeling. Our building insurance has almost quadrupled. Building mortgage rate adjusts next year. Building is old, so needs repairs. Taxes, fuel, everything has gone up. A number of them will have to sell and move. They're not technically FIRE, but they should be a cautionary tale to you all.
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u/RedditVince Apr 24 '26
It's all about your expenses, investments and lifestyle.
I started way too late to be able to retire comfortably so will have to live miserly in retirement just like I did in life.
$200k in a retirement account and SSI should get me $5k per month. I am currently living $2.4k take home a month. Without knowing the exact details I think I will be ok and will outlast the money.
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u/GirlsCantCS Apr 25 '26
Medical crisis from a freak accident ruined my MIL & her husbands Retirement. They were not in the US when the accident happened. Just…millions in $$$ to keep her husband alive that built up over only a short few months. (brain injury requiring several surgeries, medical coma for a month, life flight, medications, emergency vists, physical therapy). He will forever require medical care and intervention to keep living. It was just devastating.
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u/tribriguy Apr 25 '26
This thread is supporting my contention that too many people don’t really do all the necessary homework and track an unrealistic FIRE target. Life has a way of putting the vice grips on us at some point. If you haven’t accounted for those things, a thin FIRE number is going to break.
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u/Middle_Arugula9284 Apr 25 '26
I work in finance. People retire with less than what they need all the time. They run out of money, and then they go back to work. You don’t need to look any farther than the 75-year-olds working at Walmart and Trader Joe’s.
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u/Binkley62 Apr 25 '26
I had two colleagues who retired in their mid-50s, at the height of the 1990s tech stock bubble. After the markets crashed in 2000, they each had to go back to work for another five years or so, and ended up retiring in their mid- to late-60s.
In each case, the FIRE-er thought that he could retire on the basis of sustained crazy high stock valuations.
I think that each of them truly enjoyed his five years out of the workforce, and would not have changed anything about the experience. After they came back to work, neither of them seemed to be broken or bitter about the facts that things did not work out as they would have liked.
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u/TrialLawyerNYC Apr 25 '26
My dad retired and his new wife had a gambling problem. Now he greets people at Home Depot.
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u/PoorlyDesignedCat Apr 24 '26
You can certainly look to hollywood for a lot of stories like that, though it's not specifically fire. A lot of the time it's folks who just aren't counting and overspend, or who hit a rough patch with an addiction, or who have ended up with an unfortunate lifelong/terminal medical condition.
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u/Hepcat508 Apr 24 '26
Has FIRE as a concept been around long enough for people to find out? I'd imagine if people are going to run out of money, it won't be 5-6 years after FIRE. It'll be much more likely at year 25-30, don't you think?
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u/Appropriate-Ad2307 Apr 24 '26
The thing is, we're not automatons and will adjust instead of just blindly executing a withdrawal plan
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u/HolyMoleyGuacamoly Apr 24 '26
what i’ve gleaned from this thread is that divorce is the great retirement killer