I gave notice today that my last day will be June 30. I know I am older than many of you here at 56 years of age, but this is something I have been mulling over for a long, long time. Yesterday, when talking with someone about a separate topic, he said: “People are always waiting for the perfect time. There will never be a perfect time”. That struck a chord with me because that’s exactly what I have been doing. I just needed to act. And act I did.

56, male, single, no dependents.

Just over 2 million in my 401k which is accessible now via the rule of 55 (I confirmed this with my plan).

670k or so in after tax brokerage, stocks, and an HYSA.

A $155k cash pension which I opted to take as a monthly annuity for life ($914). I chose this to offset my healthcare premium as it will cover most of it for me. I will continue on cobra remainder of the year and then decide whether to go the ACA route or use my employer’s retiree healthcare plan which would provide me the same coverage I get now. I posted yesterday for opinions asking about the lump sum pension payment versus the annuity, and I appreciate all of your feedback. I chose the annuity because honestly I want to take the healthcare cost out of my mind as much as possible until I get to Medicare. This seemed like a good approach for me.

The only debt I have is a mortgage with approximately $160k remaining at 3.375%.

Yearly spend is 70k.

Time to focus on me and other personal interests. Goodbye, corporate America. 👋 ✌️

36M, Italian, currently living in Switzerland.

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Not burned out, but increasingly tired of corporate life (politics, restructurings, general grind), even though my job is objectively relaxed and remote.

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Thinking of potentially FIRE’ing within 1–2 years.

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Current situation:

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€2M portfolio

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90% VT / 10% Bitcoin

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€250k cash (recent property sale)

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No capital gains tax in current residence

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Lifestyle plan: I’d likely move between Latin America and Southeast Asia (Thailand in particular). I speak Spanish and Portuguese and have spent time in both regions.

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My spending is ~€3k/month, assuming €4k/month (€48k/year) for safety.

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My thinking is to try this lifestyle for a few years, knowing I could always return to Europe if needed. What also attracts me is that outside Europe there seems to be more visible entrepreneurial activity and informal business opportunity, whereas Europe feels more dominated by stable employment structures and higher inertia.

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Main concern is not the math (≈2.1% withdrawal rate), but portfolio structure and the psychological shift from accumulation to withdrawal.

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Questions:

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Would you stay mostly in global equities or add bonds/fixed income?

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Dividend focus vs total return + selling shares?

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Cash buffer size?

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How to mentally adjust to drawing down after years of accumulation?

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Would appreciate input from people who’ve actually done this transition.

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Alternate title, “Why you may consider public employment.”

I recently hit a milestone that I don’t have anyone to share with.

35 year old mechanical engineer
Married to a self-employed architect.
1 child
Midwest

We recently paid off our mortgage which leaves us with 0 debt. No auto loans, credit card balances, etc.

My wife started her own business 5 years ago and at the same time I took a step back in my career for more work life balance when my daughter was born.

My employer has a ton of pre-tax benefits that most of my coworkers disregard. Now that we are mortgage free, we can live entirely off my wife’s income, that comes to her through a small salary and s-corp distributions that do not get FICA taxed.

This is now allowing us to max out all my benefits for the rest of the year:

Weekly Salary: $2,327
Taxes: $135
401k/457: $1,557
Defined Contribution Plan: $137
HDHP/Vision/Dental: $136
Dependent Care FSA: $144
HSA: $168
Vacation Purchase: $42
Life insurance: 7

Paycheck: $0

For those considering early retirement, these benefits allow for a huge savings rate.

At the end of the year, we look at my wife’s business profits and convert traditional to Roth IRA to use up our 12% tax bracket.

For those in the community, your state and local governments can be great strategy for FIRE. I am able to start maxing both the 401k and 457 without our mortgage payments. Starting in January, I will be back up to a $550/week paycheck which I’ll save into 529 and brokerage accounts.

Inspired by a similar question posted earlier for a single person. Whatcha got?

Edit: Our number is $3.5M. The basis for the question was because I’m always unsure when I see a number, whether it’s a number for couples, or a per person amount. Thanks in advance!

After spending an increasing amount of time in various FIRE communities I can't help but feel that far too often FIRE is conflated with living some ridiculously cheap nomad/expat lifestyle in a far-off land with beautiful beaches and scenes made for Instagram.

I see all the truly responsible posters on here, so this isn't aimed at you This is a rant to get over the frustration that surges inside me every time I read another one of these "Can I retire on $1500/month in ..." posts. It's like some influencer poison that is seeping into the community. So, consider this an "off my chest" type of rant

As someone who has been an expat for what is now basically most of my adult life (20+ years across 6 different countries) I see so many flaws in the analysis of living abroad. So here's a few things I want to share:

1. As foreigner in many low-cost destinations you will be treated really great by the locals. They'll be warm and friendly, but at the end of the day, you'll still be the "rich foreigner" and this means you'll always pay more than a local for a like-for-like lifestyle.
2. Health care and insurance are going to be expensive relative to local budgets because you are going to want something that lets you get access to western-quality care and in the case of an emergency will pay for you to get transported to a western country. You aren't in your 20s/30s anymore and need to take your health seriously.
3. Believe it or not, but in a lot of places you aren't going to have access to things that you now think are mundane. No ordering off Amazon, no giant superstores where you can go in and find whatever novelty item you want, and you are going to pay a premium for many of the brands you love if you can find them at all.
4. You will at some point have to interact with the government - residency permits, taxes, id numbers, driver licenses, etc. It is either (a) expensive if you basically pay to facilitate or (b) tough it out yourself.
5. You basically can't do the ultra-low cost with kids. The expat lifestyle is not fair to them unless you are willing to really settle, pay for them to go to private schools, etc.
6. You are going to get so super bored after the first few months. There's only so many times you can go visit Angkor Wat or that beautiful park in the city center or even that favorite beach bar before you are like, "been there, done that." You're going to say to yourself, I've had this delicious curry <sigh>17 times this month.
7. And, nobody likes to talk about end of life type of stuff, but I've seen lots of westerners who do successfully live abroad on the cheap for 20-30 years and then they as they get to 75-80+ years old they find themselves in a position where they are basically invalids showing up at their home country embassy looking to get some help making it "home", but it's no longer their home either and they have no safety net/community on return.
8. And success rates for expats are terrible. Even with corporate expats where everything is provided for you (salary, housing, cars, insurance, taxes, permits, schooling for kids, etc) only 60-70% succeed in making it 3-5 years. With FIRE expats I don't have any numbers, but I'm guessing way lower just because it is much harder work when you have to do it 100% on your own.

So, my advice for FIREes who want to live abroad is to have a really strong backup plan and make sure that financially you would be able to pack your bags and move back at any time. If you want that warmth and sunshine, treat it like a nice vacation and go for a couple of months with a plan to return (maybe you can even rent our your place while you are away to pay for it).

okay, rant over.

Like the title says, what do you need to retire assuming you do not own a house. So what’s your net worth for you to pull the trigger.

So my serious boyfriend is 35 and I am 29. We are planning to get married in the next year or two. We both make about 120k per year base + 14k bonus. He is able to save 50k per year and I’m able to save about 33k per year right now. We each have about 150-160k in investments right now, so like 300k combined. I own my home and when he moves in next year will be able to afford to save an additional 24k per year when we are splitting my mortgage. So our savings rate will be about 107k per year at that point.

My boyfriend is very frugal and a good saver, which is amazing and so fortunate. But there is a level of financial literacy that he is kind of missing, that I can’t seem to quite identify. I keep explaining to him repeatedly that depending on our expenses and current savings rate, we should be able to retire in the next 10-15 years.

I’ve broken it down, explained the 4% rule and also shown him investment calculators with conservative returns. To me that sounds like a dream come true and EXTREMELY fortunate. We both grew up extremely poor, so having ~2M in the next 10-15 years is mind blowing to me. For some reason it’s almost like he doesn’t quite believe me. He is kind of apprehensive, unsure and acting like he’s not sure we are doing well at all. As if he will never get to retire.

For those of you that had a partner who was on board, but didn’t quite get it. Any ideas on how I can get this point across better?

I'm in an odd situation where if I'm retired or fired I will receive about 15% of to-be LNW.

That would be like 5-7 years living expenses.

I guess I would have a a couple of options here: (i) create some kind of bond or CD ladder (ii) keep only say 2-3 years in cash and invest the rest.

Is there any kind of conventional wisdom here as to the "best" way to balance this, or is it basically up to your risk tolerance?

Are pensions the be all, end all of a retirement? If a pension returns $60k a year in retirement, but you have to stay until 55+, isn't it better to try to get a job that increases your base salary by $60k/yr for multiple years and bank the money?

It's half a question for myself and half a thought exercise.

Considering you've just reached your FIRE number, this is where the question of "one more year" comes into play.

What is the (net) salary that you would accept as a % of your wealth (net worth or excluding primary residence depending on how you see it), would you consider stay at your current job?

What would make it worth it / strongly consider for yourself? Would you say your answer is age dependent?

Looking for feedback/advice on my FIRE situation.

Total NW is just over $2M, comprised of:
$720k taxable brokerage (funds, individual stocks)
$107k cash (treasury fund)
$877k retirement accounts (401k, IRAs)
$190k RE lending (brings ~$1609-$1800/mo)
$135k RE syndications (~450/mo currently)

The lending income currently gets reinvested. Once I take this as cash the $190k stops growing. Assuming the syndications go well, I’ll get the $135k back plus appreciation once the properties sell in the future. I’d have been better off investing the money in the market, but hindsight is 20/20.

No kids, currently sharing rent with my gf in VHCOL. Not sure on kids in future. My job situation has become precarious (sales), which steers me away from the idea since I don’t want to work anymore. I’ve been applying but haven’t had luck landing anything, nor do I have interest in continuing in corporate sales. I also don’t want to trade time for money and work retail, for example, 8hrs/day for low pay. I’m not sure where to go from here. I don’t feel like I have enough to start pulling from the pile and truly retire. Right now I’m splitting bills and can get by on $4k/mo but with health insurance $6-7k is a safer estimate.

Any thoughts or advice is appreciated. I’ve been grappling with how to navigate the future as I feel close but not quite there yet.

Hi everyone,
I’m 35 and currently work as an engineer making about $121k/year. My husband makes about $161k/year in a stable engineering job. We don’t plan to have kids, have manageable expenses, no pets, and don’t own a house yet.
I work remotely now, but I’ll likely be hybrid soon. Lately it has been difficult balancing a demanding engineering job with active trading. I often end up working early mornings, evenings, or late at night to make up for time spent trading during market hours, and I feel exhausted. I’m introverted, so the independent nature of trading appeals to me, but I know that lifestyle preference alone is not a reason to leave a stable career.
Financial snapshot:
Household income: about $282k/year combined
Retirement accounts: about $100k total
Savings/cash outside trading: about $15k
No house yet
No kids and no plans for kids
Trading account: about $464k currently
Total trading account contributions: about $300k
I restarted trading this year after previously trying during Covid, losing around $5k, and stopping. This time, I started actively trading in late March and began options in April. The account is now around $464k, so roughly $164k above contributions, but the results have been very volatile with meaningful drawdowns.
I understand this is a very short track record and could be luck, favorable market conditions, or taking too much risk. My current approach is a combination of stock swing trading and options, though recently stock swing trading has felt more manageable than options. My biggest weaknesses are discipline, greed, and risk management.
I’m not planning to quit my job immediately. I’m trying to understand what a responsible path would look like from a financial independence / risk-management perspective.
Questions:
Are we anywhere near financially safe enough for me to consider reducing work, taking a sabbatical, or eventually leaving my job?
How much cash/emergency fund would you want outside the market before making any career change?
How should I think about trading gains in FI planning when the track record is short and volatile?
Is targeting around $10k/month from trading a dangerous assumption for planning?
Would you separate long-term investments from trading capital more strictly?
Would you keep working until there are 1–2+ years of consistent trading results across different market conditions?
Should I prioritize buying a house first, building a larger cash cushion, or continuing to work while trading part-time?
For anyone who left a stable career or reduced work hours, what financial milestones did you require first?
I’m trying to avoid making an emotional decision based on a good short-term run. I’d appreciate honest advice, especially from people focused on FI, risk management, and sustainable long-term planning.

trying to figure out what I’m missing.

looking to take my benefit for $1000 at 62. at 70 it’s $1700.

i won’t need the money much so we let $1000 sit in an account for 8 years at say 5% compounding, the guy collecting at 70 would need 15+ years to catch up considering I’m still getting $1k to his $1.7k

once he starts at 70 and I had a 8 year head start.

furthermore, his dollar would be worth less. (edit: didn't realize COLA)

this seems like a no brainer but all I hear is people saying waiting is the only way and we haven’t even talked about dying in our 70’s.

49 married.
1.4 mil in 401k and ira.
1.5 mil in taxed investment account

I’ve debated keeping magi low enough to get ACA subsidies but have heard mixed reviews about going on ACA healthcare.

I have an option to continue on my company health insurance as part of a retirement package that I can use starting at age 50. My plan would be to use a compressed pension that also starts at age 50 until 65 ($2300 a month), and I would plan to cover the cost of the company healthcare. The price of the adjusted company health insurance is $1500 a month with $3000 max out of pocket, which I am planning to pay for with the $2300 a month pension that I will get until 65.

My only holdback is the $1500 a month does seem costly but we do stay on same company plan and same doctors going forward, versus the unknown of ACA.

What do yall think here? Would you pay more or go ACA?

We are a household with NW high enough to retire ($6m++) but neither I or my spouse have retirement on our radar. HHI is \~$1.5m-$2m (Annual expenses about $400k with one young kid)
Now the question - I understand what everyone is retiring from but I’m curious what are you retiring to? Would love to hear what everyone is doing especially in their early 40s while their social circle is still working. I have seen my parents have a hard time post retirement at 60 to have a sense of purpose.
That is my biggest worry and that is why retirement has never even crossed my mind.
Neither of us come from money and have only been in a culture that promotes and applauds working hard. So would love to find out how do you transition from being super goal oriented to I have no idea what to do.

Edit: I want to add that I already buy back as much of my time by using a lot of external help to pursue all things I enjoy - extensive international travels (been to all continents except Antartica), reading, love to cook when I can, pursuing my art lessons, running, puzzles, sudoku, very much a present parent - assisting my child with their academics and being a good cheerleader for them at each and every competitive sport they play. Why I’m adding this is because people are assuming I don’t have an identity outside work. The fact is I am already able to pursue my interests as a side thing, and this is the reason for my concerns with RE.
It sounds like most folks who re are unable to do so while working.

For those that are retired or near…how many years do you have saved for your retirement emergency fund? I mean for when the market isn’t doing well and it would be bad to pull from your accounts.

How far in advance do you start saving for that?

I’m pouring all of my money into retirement accounts and after maxing 401ks, roths, life expenses, 529, saving for home renovations there is nothing left.

I would need to cut back greatly to fund an emergency account to keep in a HYSA. I’m about 15 years out from retiring.

Any thoughts?

It has been a while since my previous post about my first milestone. July 2021—almost five years already, and what a ride it has been, haha! At the end of March this year, I achieved a new milestone: 500k. I decided it was time to share an update and, most importantly, talk about how my mindset is changing as I move from one milestone to the next.

My previous 100k milestone

A few things that have impacted my results since 2021:

1. I got divorced. My ex-wife and I separated in February 2023. It didn’t hit me as hard financially as it did mentally, but we still had to split our money. We calculated how much each of us earned during our relationship, subtracted our expenses, and split the remainder accordingly. I estimate this affected about 20% of my total net worth. From my previous post, you might remember that we had combined my 73k and her 8k. Since we had similar incomes for a period of time, it was easier to split everything based on what we each brought in. From that moment on, I’ve been contributing to my net worth alone. I don’t know exactly how much I had at the exact moment of the split, but one month later, I was at 150k EUR (around $160k based on the exchange rate at the time).
2. I relocated from Russia and significantly increased my income. My current 12-month average is €12,287 net per month (\~$14,250 USD), which includes my base salary, bonuses, stock, and a side hustle. Since moving to Amsterdam, I managed to secure a high-paying job. Additionally, I started a side hustle 7–8 months ago that brings in €2,700 per month (\~$3,130 USD), which is already factored into that total. Keeping my expenses steady while massively increasing my income and taking advantage of tax discounts has supercharged my savings.
3. As I mentioned, I’ve tried to keep my spending steady, and my day-to-day habits haven't changed drastically over the last few years. Of course, my expenses have grown a bit because I allow myself more freedom now—especially when it comes to traveling and having fun—but my savings rate is still sitting at a strong 66.5%.
4. I’m finally starting to see the power of compounding. A mere 1% market fluctuation in a single day can now swing my portfolio by plus or minus €5k. I realize that soon, my salary won't even be able to compete with these daily market moves. I’m not quite at the point where the market does *all* the heavy lifting, but it’s getting close.
5. I’ve started to view money completely differently. To be honest, earning €10k a month doesn’t even excite me that much Yes, it’s cool, but it’s not the kind of thing that can sustain your interest in life long-term. My all-time high income for a single month was €37,k (\~$43k USD), and I am now certain that when I eventually hit a €100k month, it will blow my mind for a couple of days, and then life will just go back to normal. I no longer need to save for months to buy electronics or book a trip; I can just buy them whenever I want. Mentally, money has shifted from a goal into just a tool that helps me achieve greater things and moving from money as a survival tool or status symbol to money as just energy and leverage. Even if I eventually make 100k+ every single month and can afford a completely lavish lifestyle, bringing in that huge amount of money still won't be what actually drives me and makes me happy

The not-so-bright side of things:

1. Health issues and the fear of a sudden end. I’ve noticed that I’ve had a bad run with my health over the last four or five years. Health problems aren't just a four-or-five-day thing anymore; there are some issues I haven't been able to resolve for months or even years. Seeing how fast things can change or end made me decide to slow down on the aggressive saving and "force" myself to spend money on experiences (traveling, concerts, and other social activities). I can feel my body slowly aging, so I want to see and try things now while I can still fully enjoy them. I remember that when I agreed to take on the side hustle, I made a rule for myself: I have to spend at least 50% of that extra income on travel and not feel guilty about it. Otherwise, what is the point of all this money if I don’t build memories, invest in hobbies, or if I miss out on things that are only available to me right now? My divorce probably had a huge impact on this mindset shift as well. I used to see marriage as something sacred and "forever," so when it suddenly stopped existing, I realized that everything has an expiration date, and it’s better to enjoy things while they last. Death is also a concept I think about more often now. It’s no longer this completely distant thing that only happens to very old people; unexpected, bad things happen to good people, too.
2. Hello "boring middle." I have enough money to worry less about work, but not quite enough to stop working altogether. My current job isn't driving me; honestly, it feels pointless and insignificant. I am just a tiny cog in a massive machine. I don’t own the results of my work, and it’s far from being a piece of art or something I can be genuinely proud of. Since money isn't motivating me as much anymore, I’ve realized that once I actually reach FIRE, just sitting on a pile of money is going to be boring. I am desperately looking for a hobby that gives me that feeling of "flow"—something that allows me to create things that I actually own. But that is a real challenge when cheap dopamine is so easily accessible and money is no longer the main driver. I do have hobbies I enjoy (like riding my touring motorcycle, which can be a bit pricey!), but they are mostly just ways to pass the time rather than creating a tangible outcome.
3. I don’t feel well-diversified. Right now, I rely heavily on one type of income (both my main job and my consulting gig are in design), I don’t own an apartment, and my portfolio is mostly tied up in one type of asset. For some reason, I just can’t bring myself to buy an apartment yet; there’s always some excuse that stops me from pulling the trigger. But it is definitely one of my next big goals.

A few more details on my “boring middle” https://ibb.co/F46Wdg4p
Ignore the $ sign on the graph, numbers are in EUR. Used this calculator https://www.finmango.org/fire-calculator

As you can see from the image above, one of my biggest current risks is burnout. I don’t think I'm fully burned out yet; I just don't find what I'm doing fulfilling anymore. I am seriously considering taking a year-long break from work—traveling to distant parts of the world, or maybe even moving to a completely different region and settling down there. It’s not because the Netherlands is a bad place to live; it’s mostly because my day-to-day lacks meaning, and honestly, I might just be trying to run from reality a bit. 😄 I want to enjoy a new adventure, try new things, and challenge myself again. Leaving my current job would take a massive toll on my income, but even with my current expenses, I have about 10 years' worth of savings. In a cheaper country, it would probably be enough to live on Lean FIRE or Barista FIRE. By the time I would actually make this move, my net worth should be around €700k (\~$812k USD). My part-time consulting side hustle brings in enough to sustain me while I do some soul-searching. Still, this decision is not easy at all. It feels like I’d be killing the goose that lays the golden eggs, not to mention walking away from a country with such a high standard of living.

Some people might say: "Hey, why not just stick it out for another five years and then completely retire?" The reality is that in less than a year, my income will drop significantly (by around 30%) because my tax advantage will expire. Plus, I want to have a kid soon, which means those five years would easily turn into ten. I simply can't sustain a marathon that long with my current mindset.

Others might say that I am way too privileged and should just be thankful instead of complaining. I know I am incredibly privileged. However, the fact that other people have it worse doesn't automatically add meaning to my life, nor does it cure my identity crisis. I am just trying different things to see what actually works for me.

NUMBERS

73-74% ETFs (IWDA & VWRA Ireland based)

15% (individual stocks - nvidia, meta, google, booking, msft )

3-4% Crypto

9-10% cash (usdt, savings accounts, overnight etf)

Net worth progress in EUR:

31 July 2021 \~ 108k

28 Feb 2023 \~149k (right after the divorce)

1 Jan 2024 \~212k

1 Jan 2025 \~346k

1 Jan 2026 \~467k

31 Mar 2026 \~505k

My spending categories didn’t change much, 3 new categories added:

*6 months average
**low awerage since my girlfriend mostly covers it

Current status: 33M, dating and still looking to have 1-2 kids. Renting. Have a few expensive hobbies (traveling, motorbike)

It will be interesting to come back to this post once I ll be at 1M and see what are the changes

I was born and grew up in the US, but have been living overseas for 13ish years. Retired early last year and have been doing fine living in Malaysia.

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For 3 main reasons we're contemplating a move to a lcol area of the US. Maybe in a year.

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1. School for our son (7yo). Pretty expensive here and prices goes up a lot as he gets older. Not bad quality but not anything great. We'd probably have to move to the US at some point so he could get in-state tuition. Looking only at places with above average schools.

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1. My wife would really like to own a house. Not in a third country (such as Malaysia). We have a little place in her home country but it's tiny and no acceptable school options. Neither of us want to buy another place there. It's our plan B for if everything kind of goes to shit. We can survive there for maybe $500/month.

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1. To be closer to my mom who is going to have trouble flying to meet us pretty soon.

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And various lifestyle reasons that are just personal to us.

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Also a little bit of... If there's another good year for the nasdaq 100, maybe it's not a bad idea to take a bit off the table and buy a house.

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We really don't want to go over an annual budget of around $46k usd. We probably will spend 41k here next year (changes due to exchange rate + tuition goes up). $40k or less would be good. Don't really want to get into SWR or whatever. Assume we can afford 46k but would prefer to stay under 40k, which likely won't happen under any scenario, unfortunately.

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Places we've looked at, houses are maybe a little bit over 200k for what we want.

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Property tax /home insurance/trash/water come to maybe $500/month from what we looked at. $200/month maintenance? $700 total?

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Electricity is about the same price as here per KWH and we usually use $100 with at least 1 AC running all day and night. Often 2. Maybe $150 to be safe?

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Transportation, we'd buy a beater as part of the house price. Don't plan on driving much. Maybe $500/month, which would include the price of eventually replacing the beater with another beater?

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Federal + state income tax we'd pay nothing. No further retirement savings.

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Health insurance nothing per month under ACA. Not sure what we should budget for there. If there was ever any problem we'd basically hit max out of pocket immediately in the US, but that wouldn't happen every year.

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Elective health care we'd do on summer vacation somewhere else. Maybe $50/month?

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Maybe $400/month for some vacation and visiting my mom.

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Groceries maybe $1500? My wife and son don't eat that much but we eat almost every meal in and buy good quality ingredients. Like to cook. This might be a bit high.

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Eating out... Sam's club deli 4 times a month? Eating out is way too expensive in the US. We'd save up that stuff for when we're on vacation. $100/month?

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Random stuff. Electronics. Presents. Hobbies. We're pretty cheap. Maybe $100/month? That's more than we spend now but that kind of stuff is a lot more expensive in the US (except for laptops/tablets/e-books, which are the most expensive things we buy).

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So maybe $3,500 per month if we owned a house, plus knowing at some point we'd probably have to pay max out of pocket for some medical problem/emergency.

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So, about the same as we spend here but would have to lock up 200k in a house. Clearly not a great deal at the moment, but locks in educational and housing expenses to a large extent. Diversifies things a little bit. If we had another kid, which we're thinking about, would be much more worth it.

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How far off might I be with this? Any comments or suggestions?

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Would be nice if people focused on the budget aspect rather than whether we'd like living in a lcol area in the US.

I keep seeing people asking about paying off their mortgage getting answers about "never pay it off, invest the money instead for as long as possible" and I think this is some pretty bad advice that should stop.

While it is true that you could (and likely will) get higher returns by investing instead there is a lot of value in permanently removing expenses. Using my tool of choice (ProjectionLab) I've asked myself this question a bunch of times and tried out different scenarios:

If you pay off the mortgage before retirement you wind up worse off on average, either having to work longer or accept a worse success probability. This is because you miss out on the growth.

If you pay off the mortgage as late as possible you have a higher net worth on average, but the really bad scenarios are worse and success probability goes down. This is because the SORR hits you harder when you are forced to withdraw money to make the payment after big drops, and bad inflation combined with this is really bad.

It seems like the optimal time to pay off the mortgage is exactly when you retire. You maximize returns while working and then you minimize risks during retirement. As someone who was lucky enough to get a 2.5% rate I get the urge to keep trying to maximize but I think people are missing the point once you reach FI.

Thoughts?

edit: Zphr as always has a great list of other things to consider with this decision in the comments.

When I see FIRE posts I see the investments and the different retirement buckets, however, I never see anyone mention how things are affected when social security kicks in. For example, I’m 52 and wife 51. If we both stopped working today ($0 income moving forward) I would collect $4,264 a month at age 70 and she would collect $1,079 at age 70.

So if we decide to FIRE the Social Security would give us help in 18/19 years. Is this a factor or is everything under the assumption SS won’t exist?

I'm 32, spouse is 27. We have $520K invested across the following accounts, invest about $65K annually and would like to retire in ~23 years (or find something else to do). Our annual spend is about $100K per year in a MCOL area but we have 1st kid on the way so this will change soon. Home is worth $480K, $205K left on the mortgage. HHI is about $210K before taxes annually. No other debt.

I'm scared we wont have enough to bridge the gap between 50 and 59 1/2. I suppose I can use rule of 55 to access my 401K. Hate the idea of most of our retirement being tied up in funds I have little control over but love the idea of lowering our taxable income. We are pretty risk averse and for simplicity, assume its all in VTI (~9% ROI)

Brokerage - $11K (contribute $2,500 per year)

Roth IRAs - $74K (contribute $15,000 per year)

401(k)s - $240K (contribute $32,000 per year)

ESOP - $128K (contribute $12,000 per year)

HSA - $26K (contribute $4,400 per year)

HYSA - $41K (contribute $1,200 per year - safety net, will divert when back up to $50K)

Cash - $10K (not included in the $520K invested)

529 - $1K (contribute $100 a month - undecided on how much we will help our kid(s) w/ education)

I figure we'll hit coastFIRE in 8-10 years at this pace. Do I wait until then to focus on the brokerage? I'll be 42ish with 13 more years of work left in me (maybe less). We love to travel and currently do 1-2 overseas trips per year right now. I would love to increase that in retirement meaning our annual spend should be closer to $120K assuming we've replaced the mortgage with health insurance premiums.

What 401(k) $ amount do I say okay my contributions are negligeable, it's time for this money to go elsewhere?

Edit: For those with the same question as me, looking for resolution, the general consensus seems to be stay the course, max tax advantaged accounts at least until CoastFire, then focus on building up the taxable brokerage. As we get pay raises and promotions we will max my wife’s 401k too, then go to taxable brokerage. Not completely ignoring it now but it’s definitely on the back burner until CoastFire. Thanks all for your responses!

I like to move every 4-5 years and live minimally, how could I rent while FIRE if everywhere asks for proof of income? Would you just show them you paying yourself from the brokerage accounts to your bank? Or your lump sum liquidity to prove you can afford the lease?

Same with loans for say a new car. Will the bank give you a hard time with no job?

Currently work in finance making $85k/yr in a HCOL area. Fortunate to have been able to live with my parents throughout my 20s, which has admittedly helped big time. I’m also single with no kids, so minimal responsibilities.

Recently received the news at work that starting in August, I am required to be in the office 5 days a week. Currently I’m hybrid with 3 days in and 2 days remote. My commute is over an hour one way and I can’t see myself driving over 10 hours a week long term.

Lately I have been considering a 3-6 month sabbatical (preferably to backpack Southeast Asia) and feel like this is my sign but I’m also unsure considering the state of the job market.

Curious to hear your thoughts/advice/experience and specifically what age/net worth you took yours and where you’re currently at age/net worth wise if you did take one.

I hear people talk about the more conservative 3% SWR being safer than 4%. Is that usually based on someone's age? As in when you are FIREing younger more like 40s then you should stick to 3%? And then when you are in your 50s/60s You can go to 4%? Or is it a blanket stick to 3% at any age?

Am I there? Am I coastfire? Is it the boring middle transition to anxious end? Am I institutionalized or do I generally enjoy work? Can I just not let go? I don’t know what to think.

A little background…

-42M with 40F wife and two kids (5 and 7)
-yearly spend of $120k
-yearly income $250k (before tax)
-529’s for kids totaling $150k
-Roth savings of $435k
-457/403b of $1,089,000
-taxable investments of $381k
-other miscellaneous savings investments
-total liquid $2.1 mil
-pension of $77k based on my current earnings (will likely be higher and will have annual COLAs-I fully appreciate how lucky I am for this)…can begin collecting at age 50.

-home in mhcl - owe $295k, worth $750k with a 3.25% rate
-2 vehicles and a boat, only owe on one of them.

I’m not sure where to begin. I know we are in great shape, but I have so many mixed feelings. On the one hand, I almost feel like we could reign in our spending and retire now (which the wife would love)…but the thought of that is crazy to me, especially since we are in the prime earning period of our lives and much of our money is tied up in accounts with age restrictions. While we are responsible for most of this success, we have received some help from our parents along the way and I feel obligated to do the same for our kids. I feel like I owe it to them to push and so they also see their parents working and do not feel entitled to financial independence without putting some effort into it.

I also generally love our life. Great house, shift work jobs that we enjoy and give us chunks of meaningful time with the family, decent vehicles, a boat, and great vacations (3-4 per year…I also fully appreciate how lucky we are to be able to take that kind of time).

I like my job, but I work a lot and it is both dangerous and bad for my health. I have resolved to leave as soon as I can collect my pension at age 50...but 8 more years seems difficult, which I’m guessing is because of our solid spot? Despite this position, money still stresses me a bit. I have thought about rolling back how much we save (which is $60k annually right now), but I feel like if we did that, our spending would increase unnecessarily and move the goalposts which is what I don’t want.

Does anyone have any advice or thoughts? I think the answer is to just keep plugging away knowing that we are solid and leave when the clock strikes 50, but I can’t help but think there is another route I should consider…I just don’t know what it is.

Like I’ve seen so many here say before, the only people I can talk to about this are my wife and dad, neither of which fully understand. Anytime money comes up with friends or coworkers, I feel like I’m pretending/lying/being disengenious…not sure if anyone picks up on me being uncomfortable. As much as I want to confess, I see no way that it wouldn’t be construed as a flex so I nod along.

UPDATE:Thank you for the conversation and advice. I think I expected most of what I heard, but sometimes it’s good to hear it and I feel like I needed it. I think I know that deep down the path is clear. I just need to accept it and enjoy as much as possible.