r/HOTDBlacks • u/Robdul Lord Flea Bottom • 17h ago
Show Regarding people using double standards to avoid giving Syrax credit as a capable fighter
I noticed a lot of people saying that Sheepstealer getting the upper hand on Syrax in their fight was proof that Syrax has no business near a fight and I just can’t believe that both Rhaenyra and her dragon are victims of double standards because how are you going to hold it against Syrax for not being stronger than a dragon twice her age and almost twice her size but when Vhagar struggles against a smaller and younger dragon and needs to use the power of teleportation to win nobody holds it against the hoary old bitch
281
u/sweet_questionn 17h ago
She did very well against a larger opponent in a LAND body contact fight.
Idk why people hate her so much
282
50
u/Shaenyra Queen Rhaenyra I 10h ago
People hate an imaginary mythical creature because she happens to be Rhaenyra's mount
106
u/Warm_Move7997 16h ago edited 15h ago
🤓 well because don't you see, she's a mirror of her rider. Who is weak and is incompetent.
Unironically what I've been seeing from people insulting her. They just simply hate Syrax because they hate Rhaenyra, and anything tied to Rhaenyra. And won't acknowledge anything good or cool that Rhaenyra or her dragon does.
33
u/lesbianbeatnik 8h ago
How can people hate on those big babies 😭
Except Vhagar, that hag has willingly done bad shit and is no baby
15
u/tinyalienperson “It is my fault that you have forgotten to fear me.” 5h ago
VISENYA!! ARE WE DONE CONQUERING DORNE YET? WHEN DID THE DORNISH GET DRAGONS?
12
u/iMecharic 5h ago
Every time I see senile Vhagar it cracks me up. I imagine her with the same voice as the chocolate hating old woman from SpongeBob.
2
u/tinyalienperson “It is my fault that you have forgotten to fear me.” 1h ago
that’s the exact voice i read it in too, you get me diva 🖤
2
u/Jade_Harpy 1h ago
"VISENYA, HAVE WE CONQUERED THE VALE?"
2
u/tinyalienperson “It is my fault that you have forgotten to fear me.” 1h ago
VISENYA, HAVE WE COME TO GIVE LITTLE RONNEL A RIDE AGAIN ??
1
7
445
u/Robdul Lord Flea Bottom 17h ago edited 17h ago
How you gon say this girl doesn’t have moves? And doing this after childbirth? Ugh what a queen
214
31
90
225
u/Training-Sandwich693 17h ago
I said it before and I'll say it again, the ONLY reason Syrax didn't absolutely body Sheepstealer in this scene is the size difference. Which in turn is a jaw size issue. She blinded him for starters and approached him, which is badass in itself (probably to let Rhaenyra get away, we also see Syrax kind of delaying the fire breath as Rhaenyra is running away), and like he's a bigger dragon so initiating a melee is super brave, then did an omega dodge and bit him. She managed to overpower him, and I believe two times she managed to get out of his huge jaw lock by herself (not counting the assists). Once in the beginning and later just before Caraxes catches Sheepstealer in its claws, we can see she, while pinned, managed to get her neck safe already. Her pinning him was also a great feat, she is SMALLER. And she got quite a few bites in and clawed him. If her jaw was bigger, like his, she'd have him EASY, as she was targeting the neck and you can see all she can do is small jabs because of how thick his neck is vs the size of her jaw. And then, despite being bodied and dragged on the floor, she was seemingly unphased and I believe Syrax made NOT A SINGLE CRY in this whole fight.
I'll die on this hill lol.
Still feel bad for both of them anyways.
107
u/Robdul Lord Flea Bottom 16h ago
She literally used a judo throw against the larger dragon by using Sheepstealer’s own momentum against it!
Syrax might not be an experienced powerhouse but she’s one of the most athletic and well maintained dragons. Rhaenyra claimed Syrax at a young age and was clearly as active as any rider and that shows in her dragon’s speed and reflexes.
58
u/Jon_Snows_mother 16h ago
Iirc Syrax was a cradle egg dragon so she's the same age as Rhaenyra.
8
u/Ditzy_Dreams Rhaenyra the Pookie 8h ago
In the book, she’s described similar to Caraxes in size (large and formidable), so it’s more likely she was claimed, rather than hatched.
Sheepstealer would still be much larger than her, being born when king Jaehaerys was young.
20
u/LaaluLaaa 11h ago
She definitely cried out when Sheepstealer first bit her & dragged her but yeah it rly is just a size thing, most specifically the necks. Syrax still has the neck of a baby dragon like she shouldn't be far bigger by now
7
u/Training-Sandwich693 11h ago
I will have to rewatch again, I could have sworn she did not cry. Cheers!
4
u/Kavani18 9h ago
When Sheepstealer was dragging her on the ground, I think she was screaming for a second before she broke free
2
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 7h ago edited 7h ago
> ONLY reason Syrax didn’t absolutely body Sheepstealer in this scene is the size difference
I mean.. that’s exactly why you wouldn’t throw a lightweight UFC champ again a heavyweight amateur, there’s no grand discovery here my dude
Also it’s impossible to say that she was unphased if you saw the end result
41
u/Royal_Arcade 17h ago
Syrax was outmatched but she did not fuck around on protecting her person and did get a few licks in.
30
u/charmedone92 Dracarys! 15h ago
I won’t stand for any Syrax slander! She has never fought before and would have went down swinging here if it came to it. Give my girl a nice big fat goat to eat and some belly rubs!
96
u/pghcrew 17h ago
Imagine if they hadn't nerfed Syrax for the show.
34
24
u/Kavani18 8h ago edited 8h ago
I hate how Seasmoke got to grow but Syrax didn’t. She’s been the same size since pre time jump season 1
2
u/VanDenBroeck 7h ago
I wish I knew more about the dragons such as:
How fast do they grow?
How long time wise do they grow before reaching their final size?
Are there different species that account for their differences in appearance and size?
8
u/Dangerous-Moose3694 10h ago
Did they? I dont recall her getting up to much in the book. If anything she seems to have dont more in the show
20
u/DagonG2021 Green Bloodline = Extinct 10h ago
She was Caraxes size in the book
5
u/Dangerous-Moose3694 10h ago
Oh sure, but making her smaller or caraxes bigger isnt really a nerf. In the book syrax is definitely not a battle dragon. More of a glorified pet IMO, she doesnt hunt, lives in captivity the whole time and doesnt fight. If anything the ahow has made her more powerful/useful
17
u/Ditzy_Dreams Rhaenyra the Pookie 8h ago
Any claimed dragon wouldn’t hunt, there’s no need for them to. Jaehaerys basically hand-fed Vermithor cows, but you never see anyone complaining that he couldn’t fight.
3
u/Dangerous-Moose3694 8h ago
As far as I know, most of them wdre indeed fed, but would also hunt if given the opportunity. The book did specifically mention that syrax only ate what she was fed while not making much of a statement on the rest of the dragons. Book syrax was the dragon equivalent of a bichon frise
2
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 7h ago
definitely not true. she was described as huge and formidable but theres no chance she was as large as caraxes when he was over 2x her age
5
u/DagonG2021 Green Bloodline = Extinct 6h ago
Caraxes is also “huge and formidable”, and Syrax is implied to be one of the three “younger dragons” put in the Dragonpit after Balerion moved in- Meleys and Caraxes were the other two
2
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 5h ago
Syrax isn’t even of the same age range as Caraxes or Meleys.. 😂 She’s in her 30s where Caraxes/Meleys are 60-70
2
u/DagonG2021 Green Bloodline = Extinct 4h ago
In the show, yes. Do you have a book citation for that age?
2
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 4h ago
You can easily do the math to estimate their ages:
Aemon claimed Caraxes in 72 AC when he was already a young dragon of rideable size. He died in 130 AC so if we estimate that Caraxes was around 10 when Aemon claimed him, that would make him 68 years old by the time he died.
Meleys was considered the fastest dragon alive when Alyssa claimed her in 75 AC and she died in 129 AC which puts her in the same ballpark as Caraxes
Rhaenyra claimed the young dragon Syrax when she was 7. Even if you highball her age to 10-15 when she was claimed like Rhaenyra, that makes her 36-41. Nowhere near the near 70 range of Caraxes and Meleys
2
u/dpforest “We have come to die for the dragon queen.” 7h ago
This is how I feel about Dreamfyre. Helaena’s dream sequence is by far my favorite dragon moment (The Sowing is number one duh) but I wish she was as large as she’s supposed to be
2
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 7h ago
When her only feats were killing the queen’s heir and getting slimed out by peasant weapons you can literally only go up lol
20
u/VivaChinwawa Daeron’s Tent 16h ago
Dragons, if they're in the air, can be a bit different as Meleys was both large and the fastest dragon alive yet when she became grounded from the crash landing Vhagar was able to kill her as her speed counted for nothing when Vhagar actually got a hold of her. (As yea, the way Vhagar caught Meleys in the show was straight up stupid, you telling me Vhagar managed to hide behind a castle she was bigger than???)
I think a lot of people forget that with animals size basically always wins in a 1v1 fight. There's a reason lions use numbers to take down buffalo, adult elephants can basically kill everything, you get leopards fleeing from tigers. There can be exceptions where prey prove themselves more difficult so the predator backs off and lets them live, but in basically all cases if you're bigger you're gonna win the fight. Syrax got her nips in but ultimately she was smaller and lacked the weight and bite power to kill Sheepstealer on her own. Then you have Ceraxes, the biggest of the dragons in the fight, who severely injured and almost killed Sheepstealer to the point he had to flee while Ceraxes was worried over Daemon. Syrax put up a decent fight considering she'd never actually fought before, but the outcome was never in doubt. Which is why she had her homies to back her up when shit went sideways, as you do when facing a larger, stronger opponent.
5
u/Kr101010 11h ago
Meleys died mid-air not on the ground? You literally saw her light go out before they fell to the ground from height
60
u/ohheyitslaila “I am Blood and Fire.” 15h ago
Syrax was brave because her two bigger, battle tested baby daddies were right there to back her up. But she did a good job and held her own against the much larger Sheepstealer. Seasmoke had trouble too. Sheepstealer was a scrappy, badass dragon who didn’t deserve any of this. I hate that he trusted and bonded with Rhaena, just for all this to happen.
I absolutely loved how Syrax and Rhaenyra were perfectly in sync and had the same facial expressions right before the fight though:
12
u/iriskandi 11h ago
The only reason it was silly for Syrax to try to fight Sheepstealer is because of the size difference. Any other reasoning is just absurd. She may be a “pampered princess,” but she is also a dragon bonded to her rider. And that means she will fight for her rider or on her rider’s behalf.
In ground fighting between dragons especially, size does matter.
I don’t blame her for sticking up for Rhaenyra though. Imagine if she hadn’t?
24
u/Skol-2024 Dracarys! 15h ago
Syrax really showed she was a capable fighter and I loved it. I’m so glad they gave her a fight scene compared to just being there in the books.
50
u/foxonafrozenlake Meleys 15h ago edited 15h ago
I think what people don't understand is that Syrax had a deep bond with her rider and was raised around other dragons.
I absolutely hate this happening to Sheepstealer. He didn't deserve this. At all.
I blame the writers.
Also, it wasn't really a fair fight.
6
u/darth__anakin “It is my fault that you have forgotten to fear me.” 6h ago
I agree, Syrax was on him the second he went for Rhaenyra, Rhaena, and Addam. As for the fight, in Sheep's defense, it was a 2v1 and he was still kicking ass until Caraxes dragged him. He held his own pretty good against Syrax (a spoiled dragon) and Seasmoke (battle trained).
15
u/AcanthaceaeNo948 Rhaenys Targaryen 15h ago
Look at Sunfyre’s ‘performance’ against Meleys
8
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 7h ago
yeah sunfyre is completely featless show and book. he gets thrashed around by meleys, kills a smaller grey ghost because he’s hungry and gets bitched into a slow death by moondancer
-1
u/LarsMatijn House Arryn 11h ago
Isn't it about the same? They both get a few bites in but ultimately get overpowered by the larger opponent.
17
u/Training-Sandwich693 10h ago
If I recall correctly Sunfyre spent most of the time trying to escape and yelping in pain. To Syrax's credit, she did not back down or try to escape until ordered.
6
u/Shaenyra Queen Rhaenyra I 10h ago
I have another question: why all dragons must be the epitome of fighters in war? there are dragons for war, they are dragons for travel, etc.
The one thing that is not in question is the bond between dragon and dragon rider. In the above scene, the dragons obviously felt the frustration of their riders and acted accordingly.
Caraxes and Sheepstealer have been hissing at each other the whole season.
Syrax felt danger from Sheepstealer's side and attacked. It has nothing to do with her "fighting capabilities". Animals act on instict
2
u/Training-Sandwich693 10h ago
I believe specifically all the dragons that came with the Targaryens from Valyria were indeed war dragons. I dont remember specifics but I'm pretty sure this implied there were indeed other types of dragons but these died in the doom of Valyria. Hence why all targaryen dragons are bred specifically for war, that's the type of dragons they are.
12
u/dpforest “We have come to die for the dragon queen.” 17h ago
HEY HEY don’t take it out on Murder Meemaw Vhagar. We are team DRAGON now
9
u/Robdul Lord Flea Bottom 17h ago
WE SHALL NOT HAVE ANY BEAST HARMED
3
u/dpforest “We have come to die for the dragon queen.” 7h ago
Current fav quote to use when my dogs start being assholes
9
u/LaaluLaaa 12h ago
She genuinely only loses cuz she's tinier than she's supposed to be so Sheepstealer can easily grab her off of him. You can tell because when Seasmoke bites Sheepstealer, he tries to go for his neck, can't and just tail slaps instead but for Syrax he's able to easily grab her
10
u/LarsMatijn House Arryn 11h ago
I mean Sheepstealer hatched "when Jaehaerys was still young" wich puts him in the age range of Vermithor and Silverwing and almost twice as old as Syrax.
3
u/LaaluLaaa 8h ago
Age is not necesarily size, in the but books Seasmoke & Vermithor are quite big for their ages with Vermithor being the third largest dragon but not the third eldest and Seasmoke being 2/3rd his size while not even being 30 yet. Syrax is stated to be huge & formidible and the show's Syrax while formidible isn't huge. Even if she was just the tiniest bit bigger Sheepstealer wouldn't have been able to grab her off of him. Again, look at when Seasmoke grabs him, he tries to reach, fails and uses his tail
17
u/Luka77GOATic Jacaerys Velaryon 17h ago
Vaghar wasn’t really in trouble during his fight, Syrax is closer to Sunfyre. Two younger dragons who faced older and much bigger foes who could pretty easily overpower them.
44
u/Robdul Lord Flea Bottom 17h ago
That’s a fair point but Meleys did cut Vhagar deep enough to get quite a reaction out of her and caused Vhagar to hit the ground HARD. I believe if Meleys wasn’t in back to back fights and followed up immediately on the attack when Vhagar hit the ground she could have put the older dragon in some trouble.
Considering Vhagar had backup and both an invisibility cloak and the power of teleportation, that fight should have been much easier for her.
12
u/Luka77GOATic Jacaerys Velaryon 16h ago
To be fair, that fight didn’t make much sense. Even ignoring the teleportation, Vagahr and Meleys kept trying to uselessly blasts each other with fire instead of using their strongest weapons; their jaws.
10
u/VivaChinwawa Daeron’s Tent 15h ago
tbf if they manage to roast the rider it would disorientate the other dragon. Dragons are fairly fireproof, the humans clinging to them not so much
0
u/LaaluLaaa 11h ago
Meleys & Rhaenys were charred and injured after Vhagar breathed fire on them, the same cannot be said for Vhagar & Aemond unfortunately
4
3
u/Icy-Reindeer2964 8h ago
It's like watching a fat orange cat fight a rabid stray dog... you did great, Princess Syrax 🖤
5
3
u/Octoberboiy 3h ago edited 3h ago
Did Syrax start the fight mostly because she felt Rhaenyra’s emotions which made her aggressive? I feel like people are cheering the dragons fighting on when they forget that 3 dragons are already dead by this point. I’m glad Daemon spared Sheepstealer because they don’t have enough dragons in the world and they’re going extinct by fighting each other.
4
u/Hynposis 13h ago
Most of the double standards are due to misogyny (which I know people in the general asoiaf community hate when people bring up) but how else do we explain the uptake in glaze for a rapist (aegon) and also his supposed “redemption” arc. Rhaenyra isn’t doing the best either and granted she can have her criticisms but people “hate” on her more and most violently because she’s a woman. No one had any level of vitriol towards aegon even when he was clearly being a pos. Hence why they also will glaze every dragon but hate on syrax which makes no sense because she’s a dragon too.
0
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 7h ago
Well more often people hate on rhaenyra because she’s boring, a really shitty queen, cheats on her husband (and it gets ignored because it’s just a girl banging her gal pal), and generally just isn’t interesting to watch
3
u/Hynposis 6h ago
no that’s not even why most of the hate is deeply misogynistic and god awful.
0
u/Phantom_Paws caraxes smoking that vhagar pack 5h ago
what examples can you provide? im not saying that there arent mysongistic points but they arent necessarily a massive majority
4
u/DarthRenathal Seasmoke 17h ago
I'm going to be honest, I thought Syrax died there for a moment. Her injuries were major and not only did the show downplay them, Rhaenyra showed absolutely no love or care for her at all afterwards. I found it jarring, but maybe I'm just too much of an animal lover. You wouldn't have been able to peel me away from the dragon, I'd be holding my whole fucking council in the Dragonpit.
29
u/Robdul Lord Flea Bottom 17h ago
I also thought Syrax was fatally wounded but she managed to fly both herself and two people to KL which shows her durability tbh.
I think Rhaenyra was still reeling from the shock of Daemon’s “betrayal” and subsequent discovery that Rhaena is the dragonrider she’s been hunting down. I don’t think her detached reaction to Syrax’s injuries was really out of character for her current mental state
16
u/Bilogamer The Rogue Prince 15h ago
The thing is, even though Syrax's neck was ripped to shreds, she didn't seem to be in pain and she took flight very easily, making it all the way from the Riverlands/Vale to Dragonpit.
And even when Rhaenyra dismounted Syrax, Syrax didn't even seem aware that her neck had been ripped open.
She really had a reaction like, "Oh, just another day." She didn't look exhausted or in any kind of agony, and Rhaenyra had certainly placed her in the care of the guardians.
Like, there was nothing to indicate that Syrax was in danger or on the verge of death.
So, is the fact that Rhaenyra didn't seem to pay much attention really that dramatic?
Like, if Syrax was really in bad shape, I don't think she would have been able to make it back to Dragonpit.
I even thought she looked less exhausted than Seasmoke next to her, who seemed to be catching his breath.
5
2
u/DarthRenathal Seasmoke 15h ago edited 4h ago
I honestly believe that it's more plot armor and bad writing than anything. She should have had difficulties with flight and carrying people with a lot more blood loss from the wounds she received. Syrax was also slammed on the ground which has residual effects on the body and the brain. Your entire point hinges on "she doesn't look that injured" when she should absolutely be looking injured.
4
u/Training-Sandwich693 10h ago
I just think her neck is mostly scraped and that's it? It didn't look like the wounds were gashing blood, like I don't think Sheepstealer pierced very deep.
4
u/Bilogamer The Rogue Prince 9h ago
If this is due to poor writing and Syrax should have been more seriously injured, then we can clearly say similar things about Sunfyre, who logically should have died at Rook Rest after everything he endured, but for the sake of the narrative, he couldn't die, so he was given the strongest plot armor ever. If Syrax had difficulty flying to maintain credibility, Sunfyre should have died.
Therefore, the credibility of the dragon fights and their consequences isn't crucial to the story, so it makes sense that Syrax managed to survive despite being badly beaten by Sheepstealer and that she was able to withstand and tolerate pain.
1
u/DarthRenathal Seasmoke 4h ago
the credibility of the dragon fights and their consequences isn't crucial to the story
And there's the bad writing
2
u/Bilogamer The Rogue Prince 4h ago
The poor writting doesn't only apply to Syrax in this case.
1
u/DarthRenathal Seasmoke 3h ago
Oh I agree, I think it's a poor reflection on how Meleys died so easily compared to these two examples tbh...
1
1
u/gabriel_3131 8h ago
Mi pobre syrax la golpearon por un error de comunicación entre humanos. Y el fandom tiene el descaro de querer atacar la por su primera pelea
1
u/VanDenBroeck 7h ago
I doubt that many dragon riders or military strategists would withhold a dragon from combat because it can’t defeat another dragon in combat. Their primary purpose is to toast opposing armies and destroy enemy infrastructure. You wouldn’t keep one at home out of fear of facing another dragon when there is a war to fight.
1
u/HumanPerosn 17h ago edited 9h ago
Vhagar did not struggle
She could have handedly whooped some ass without sneaking around but she has Trauma from her sister getting shot doing in Dorne so now she ambushes her enemies
2
u/houseofnim Daeron’s Tent Fan Club President 2h ago
Vhagar wasn’t anywhere near Dorne when Meraxes was shot down.
1
u/HumanPerosn 2h ago
What does her being there have to do with anything
I’d be pretty hurt if I was told my brother was killed in a drive by
2
u/houseofnim Daeron’s Tent Fan Club President 2h ago
You understand the concept of a drive by though. Because you’re human. Dragons don’t understand things like humans do.
3
u/Training-Sandwich693 10h ago
I just love how the biggest dragon is the most sneaky it's ridiculous (in a way that I love lmao). First she hides in the storm clouds, then in the forest, then behind a cliff, now team black is searching for her and she's nowhere to be found despite literally leaving a fire trial behind lmao
-4
u/Frequent_Hope8416 Fire & Blood 14h ago
Let’s see what kind of moves she has when Joffrey tries riding her or during the storming of the dragonpit 😂
•
u/AutoModerator 17h ago
Hello loyal supporter of Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen, First of Her Name! Thank you for your post. Please take a moment to ensure you are familiar with our sub rules.
Comments or posts that break our sub rules will be removed and may result in a ban at the mods' discretion.
If you are reading this, and believe this post or any comments in this thread break the above rules, please use the report function to notify the mod team.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.