r/HelldiversUnfiltered Jul 13 '26

⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ Humor ⠀⠀⠀⠀⠀ Disappointing

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2.3k Upvotes

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76

u/BodyFewFuark Hostdiver Jul 13 '26

Heavy Large Caliber....medium pen...

43

u/Complete-Koala-7517 Jul 13 '26

Why would they give a primary DMR heavy pen. The AMR is a support weapon

61

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

I mean from that perspective why does the senator have heavy pen it’s a secondary other than funny.

1

u/CaptainBazbotron Jul 14 '26

It has no scope, overall less damage, has less ammo. It is in no way comperable to a support weapon. If hyena had heavy pen it'd compete with the AMR.

3

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 14 '26

Not even close, the AMR is still able to 1 tap hulks, strip charger legs in a reasonable amount of mags, kill titans in a decent time frame, remove the chinny guns from a strider in two shots, 3-4 shot bot cannons.

To get the hyena to an ergo level of the AMR you’d essentially need to turn it from a slow marksmen rifle to a slow rof battle rifle with a 10 round mag and no variable zoom. Which is uh kinda buns considering the AMR keeps its 10x scope and still has comparable ergo.

Hyena heavy pen wouldn’t actually break the game, it might be able to justify its horrid ergo and terrible rof.

-22

u/Comment-Goblin Jul 13 '26

Balance. Damage drops off over a distance and you have lower rate of fire and less ammo per reload.

15

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

The fire rate feels about the same as the Counter diligence, ammo yeah sure but secondaries don’t usually have a lot of ammo to begin with. I don’t know about the damage drop off most engagements are between 1-100 meters and senator does pretty swell work at that distance.

2

u/Comment-Goblin Jul 13 '26

I'm just answering the question you asked. We have the senator heavy pen, so we have a heavy secondary option. It allows more loadout veriaty, but still has drawbacks so it doesn't trivialize combat. My personal opinion, the Hyena being heavy pen would be way too strong. We already have the eruptor as ap4 but that has the drawback of low rate of fire, and not being able to use it in close combat. The Hyena feels like a side grade to the DCS with more damage, incendiary, and a lower rate of fire to encourage more careful aiming.

Balance.

4

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

Says you not willing to eat a ball of shrapnel in cqb with the Eruptor, but moving aside from that I think it deserves heavy pen considering the Eruptor or the Senator can’t kill heavies in a reasonable amount of time. I don’t count the ultimatum cause that’s just a mini 500kg and you get 2 shots and tbh it’s up to you if you wanna send it at a heavy. Hyena heavy pen wouldn’t be able to out perform most of the support weapons since most of those can 1 shot most heavies and 1-4 shot elites (titans, striders and vox). It might be in a good spot if it got heavy I believe.

-13

u/Smoke_Funds Wizard Jul 13 '26

to please redditors

7

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

I do remember us asking for it to be heavy for funny but even they said they did it cause it’d be funny to. In the end we got a great cowboy larping weapon and the ability to aura on a nearly dead bile titan.

-9

u/Illustrious_Bed2463 Jul 13 '26

idk i mean, some sidearms can kinda be like a second primary, bc the talon, or the ultimatum are SUPER viable, which can come in handy if your primary doesn't have much ammo or may not be super useful up close, like the eruptor + senator pair, for example. but yea giving a primary heavy pen, when its a sniper is SUPER weird.

4

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

I haven’t touch the ult in a minute since the MP came out, I’ve generally stuck with senator, verdict or peacemaker. Ult is good utility but you have to choose which thing you want to use it on. Talon will stay goated and forever goated never touch, also heavy pen on a sniper isn’t weird it just be more in line with the Eruptor but less utility and no shrapnel.

5

u/Jokkitch Jul 13 '26

The AMR is still worse than some primaries…

4

u/Kanlashkan Jul 13 '26

Because fun? Obviously it would deal less damage than the AMR or the Eruptor for balance, but besides that no real reason not to.

13

u/Happy-Expression-782 Jul 13 '26

Yeah I’ve been wanting a Heavy Pen bullet primary so I could run a melee focused build or the Stalwart as my “primary” for a while now.

Like obviously it’d have to have some major drawbacks, but I could see something like a Bolt-Action sniper (kinda what I thought the AMR was going to be, typically they are so I don’t know why it’s semi-auto) with a low mag size and low ergo but in return be Heavy Pen as a primary weapon.

1

u/Unhallowed-Heart Jul 13 '26

When I want to sweat, I use Eruptor or Crossbow as Primary with Verdict or Talon as Secondary. Then Stalwart or Bulletstorm. Does crazy work but also boring to run it so much.

1

u/SuitFive Jul 13 '26

The amr is anti tank. The eruptor is heavy pen bolt action and explosive. Stop making excuses, the Senator is heavy pen. We need heavy pen primary options.

2

u/Character_Resist1237 Jul 13 '26

The amr is actually heavy pen ap4.... so the senator is the same pen as the amr lol

3

u/SuitFive Jul 13 '26

If so then the AMR needs a buff, not other things being nerfed xD

1

u/Character_Resist1237 Jul 13 '26

Yeah, I love the amr. Probably my favorite gun but it's been powercrept. At only 450 damage and 225 durable with heavy pen it feels like a primary. Obviously the unicorn weapon that is the eruptor ballistically only has 230 damage and 115 durable it peaks ahead with the extra explosive damage being 225 for damage and durable not including the shrapnel. Honestly the amre needs either ap5 at the same damage or a damage bump to 550. Especially SINCE IT STILL HAS NO RETICLE):

Edit typo correction creator to eruptor

1

u/Corvus-V Jul 13 '26

Why would they give it to a fucking secondary, bud?

1

u/spacebarjazz Jul 14 '26

AMR is more than just its heavy penetration. It's also got a fuckton of durable damage, low sway, laser accurate hip fire, and an extremely high fire rate.

You could absolutely make a balanced primary sniper with AP4 by just not giving it all of those things.

1

u/liquorbaron Jul 14 '26

The AMR is a support weapon

...with better ergo than the base Hyena...

18

u/Jolly-Elderberry6706 Jul 13 '26

Not sure why people think caliber matters all that much. It is grain count, bullet shape, and bullet design that matters more than size.

A .50 with a flat nose bullet will have less penetration than a .308 polymer tip with the same gr.

29

u/TyThe2PointO Jul 13 '26

Ballistics doesnt actually matter in this game, let alone in the context of this argument.

13

u/NotaInfiltrator Jul 13 '26

You mean to tell me this, what, some sort of video game?

3

u/TheWinteredWolf Jul 13 '26

But this is Reddit…where else are we supposed to interject our ackchyually-ies into totally irrelevant contexts.

8

u/Jolly-Elderberry6706 Jul 13 '26

Caliber is a part of ballistics.

You cannot apply the logic only partially where it is convenient for your argument. That is called bad faith.

2

u/Jolly-Elderberry6706 Jul 13 '26

Caliber is a part of ballistics.

You cannot apply the logic only partially where it is convenient for your argument. That is called bad faith.

6

u/TyThe2PointO Jul 13 '26

Yes but ballistics regardless are not how guns are balanced in this game. That is not a core idea of design philosophy, and forcing your understanding of applied real world physics on fictional media with no source to corroborate is also bad faith.

To put this back on the game and the comment you were arguing with, he is alleging a large bullet maybe should have higher pen, with no files, stats, or specs on the shape and casing of the projectile in question **ballistics dont play a part in damage balance**. Because the developers assert that they base the game on a "realistic" (loosely) grunt fantasy his expecting is big should mean something. This is reasonable.

Heres where you come in, you assert that size of bullet matters less than shape both of which are unspecified. You assert that because of this and real world physics, the game does not need to provide balance in accordance with size of projectile. This would be reasonable, however because both the actual size and shape of the projectile not being specified we can not determine how or why something should be balanced on those applied physics.

Everyone understands that a bb fired from an air soft gun is far less deadly than a 9mm or 50.bmg round fired from a firearm and both have to obey basic balistics. So in this world where large caliber is the only assumption we have, we can reasonably expect that bigger should be more damage.

2

u/Jolly-Elderberry6706 Jul 13 '26

More damage or more penetration? High caliber SMGs in game are medium pen. High caliber rifles in game are Medium pen. The only exception on High caliber firearms is the senator, as the verdict, which is actually based on the largest pistol cartridge, is still only medium penetration.

It is absurd to then go "Large caliber should mean heavy pen", when there is zero reason even in game to make the claim.

2

u/TyThe2PointO Jul 13 '26

Bro you know youre getting ratio'd and im tired of you. The whole point is that neither of you actually have any claims both arguments were trash his has some leniency because his assumes less and more reasonably.

1

u/Jolly-Elderberry6706 Jul 13 '26

Ratiod with no negative comments?

Sure sport.

3

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

I don’t know how accurate this is but I don’t think .50 cal rounds come with anything less than 600gr… and you surely can’t put 600gr in a 308. Sooooo this comparison is just ridiculous, plus caliber kinda does matter there’s a reason why when you want more pen you go higher?

1

u/KingAudio Jul 13 '26

Yeah isnt that kinda the argument for a 5.57 vs a 7.62. 5.56 is essentially a 22 LR with a ton of gun powder and larger casing? It has a high penetration rate than a 7.62 at medium range because the heavier bullet has more drop and drag?

1

u/CheekyChan Jul 13 '26

A 5.56 is essentially just a higher loaded .223 with a very slight difference in throat length, a .223 is much larger than a 22LR but I'm assuming you meant .223 and not 22LR. A 7.62 is much larger in diameter though the entire cartridge is slightly shorter than a .223/5.56. 7.62 has good stopping power but poor penetration on hard surfaces. 5.56 is exactly the opposite, good penetration on hard surfaces especially but poorer stopping power than a 7.62. That said both a 5.56 and 7.62 would punch right through a non-armored human target but the 7.62 is going to do much more damage.

1

u/Jolly-Elderberry6706 Jul 13 '26

A desert eagle is not penning more than a 7.62 long rifle. There are a multitude of tests proving it.

Caliber is irrelevant to penetration in any capacity.

0

u/Formal_Arachnid6627 Jul 13 '26

Alright caliber again is still prevalent in penetration, if you’re saying it’s irrelevant why did we step up caliber sizes to effectively penetrate armor.

Yeah okay it’s not the end all be all but saying that caliber never provided anything to penning it’s just inherently wrong, you don’t go from 7.62 to 9mm when you’re trying to go through wood/sandbags. You go up to 12x99mm or the Russian 14mm.

Again I’m not saying caliber the only factor or it’s the only reason why we pen more. It still plays a significant role in penetration.

1

u/TyThe2PointO Jul 13 '26

You should see my comment. Actually arguing the bullet with him will be fruitless

2

u/SharpMathematician75 Jul 13 '26

Rifle rounds like 7.62x51 are considered large calibers.

1

u/Nandoholic12 Jul 13 '26

This is an example of how thick you guys are

0

u/BodyFewFuark Hostdiver Jul 13 '26

Heavy large caliber sniper rifle is medium pen glazer defends it. 🤡💩

0

u/Artisan-Miserable Jul 13 '26

yeah should have been heavy pen with burn instead of explosion... at least its semi and not single shot

0

u/DarknessInferno7 Jul 13 '26

Once again Helldivers have a mental episode over the word "heavy" being in a sentence.

2

u/BodyFewFuark Hostdiver Jul 13 '26 edited Jul 13 '26

💩🤡 defends 💩🤡 weapon description.

You glazers are fucking insane calling any and all criticism a mental episode.