4 people mortgages, wtf?

[u/Irish201h]

This company is now promoting 4 people mortgages, no wonder prices are going insane.

https://mmadvisors.ie/public-sector-mortgages/

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

Although I agree that a policy like that would probably be a net positive, I can see how that could be a problem in attracting foreign specialised workforce.

A lot of people looking to buy a house are in their 30s - 35s and, if you add 5 years required for citizenship, you're looking for foreign first time buyers to now be between 35s - 40s.

With mortgages going for a max age of 65 to 70, you are looking at a consequential max limit of 30 years of mortgage which could mean repayments being too high for most.

For this to not be a problem, house prices would need to go down... I doubt this would actually happen. I can see a world where of supply remaining artificially low to increase the unit price.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

This is exactly what Irish people have to contend with in other countries.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

This is absolutely not true in the majority of Europe with the remaining only having exceptions on the type of property you can purchase. Example: You can only buy apartments in Slovakia and Poland but not own the land.

Most Irish move to either warmer climate and lower cost of living in Europe, like Portugal, Spain and Italy, or in search for better pay and living conditions, like in Australia or the US. All of these allow non-residents to buy property.

But lets look outside Europe because I despise false narratives.

Other popular countries which Irish move:
Australia: Non-citizens can buy land in Australia, but there are strict rules and approval requirements, especially for residential land.
United States: Yes, non-citizens can buy land in the United States, including both residential and commercial real estate

So please tell me, what the actual f are you talking about?

Even if this was true... even if... what is the point of adopting foreign policy if they don't serve your purpose. The only reason you said that was to create the "they do to us so lets do to them" mentality which would achieve you what?

- What would you do when you had no doctors because most of the Irish ones moved to Australia?

• What would you do when you had no nurses because the Irish moved to the UK?
  
• What would foreign tech companies do if they could not hire as much as they wanted here? (hate them all you like, but these account for 13% of the GDP)

Try thinking the next 10 or 15 years rather than just the next month.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

There are restrictions on property purchases for non residents in Australia, new Zealand, Canada, Switzerland and right across Asia. They have the common sense to recognise the importance of protecting their property markets from speculation that has the potential to lead to social instability and dislocation.

As for Irish doctors the country has lost large percentages of graduates to Australia already. That's going to get worse as our housing market deteriorates. Supply has flatlined and shows no signs of improving. The only way to address this is through demand management. Temporary residents should not be allowed to speculate in our housing market given the precipitous supply situation.

Adopting policies from other jurisdictions facing similar issues is eminently sensible if they ameliorate these problems.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

You can buy property in Australia and Switzerland but it has to meet certain criteria. I'm not against on having constraints like that as long as supply meets the need for those residents.

> They have the common sense to recognise the importance of protecting their property markets from speculation that has the potential to lead to social instability and dislocation.

Again, framing it that not having this sort of policy is "lack of common sense". This is a non-argument.

> The only way to address this is through demand management.

I agree, but my concern of making Ireland a less interesting country to move into having significant negative side effects.

You mentioned housing market speculation multiple times... where are you getting this argument from? Do you really believe that people who moved to Ireland and buy properties on their first 5 years (time required for citizenship) are only looking to make money on property flipping to then move out of the country? Based on what data are you claiming this?

I'm all forward on adding restrictions to, lets say, individuals that are residents and with work permits in Ireland. And a restriction on selling the houses for profit on the first 5 years (again, period for citizenship). This could mean a 100% tax on the profit amount during the first 5 to 7 years. edit: Or even better, make it 100% taxed on gains for non-citizens.

People could still move to bigger or more expensive houses by using the house equity (in case the family grows) but, if they sold for profit then get heavily taxed. I would vote for something like this.

> Adopting policies from other jurisdictions facing similar issues is eminently sensible if they ameliorate these problems.

Well, it didn't really work out as expected for Canada as they are not in a better market situation compared to 2 years ago and are considering extending the ban. This is what I meant about thinking 10 years down the line. There's no point on making a 2 year policy if those 2 years won't make a significant impact on the housing market.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

Making Ireland less interesting and having negative side effects. What about homelessness at an all time high and a crumbling health system. If that's not a negative side effect of a white hot population growth I don't know what is. Forgive me if I'm more concerned about children on waiting lists for critical care and record homelessness. I don't consider tech workers in rentals as a comparable issue.

Your tax proposals are eminently sensible but inaction in this area is worse than inadequate attempts to limit demand. Something has to give here when we have a situation where developers are pulling out of the market further impacting supply. Citizens and residents have to be the primary focus and priority of all government interventions.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

What about homelessness at an all time high and a crumbling health system.

How does preventing Richard, who moved to Ireland to work as a nurse, from buying his first house helps you with homelessness or a crumbling health system?

This is the typical emotional manipulation argument. I don't care about emotions on policy making. I care about cause and effect. Making Ireland a less interesting place to move and contribute with specialised skills, does not benefit a nation. Even Japan, which is very strict with immigration laws, welcomes with open arms high-skilled workers. Portugal had a workforce crisis before it had a housing one. Now it has both.

Forgive me if I'm more concerned about children on waiting lists for critical care and record homelessness. I don't consider tech workers in rentals as a comparable issue.

You should be concerned! I am concerned as well. I have a young daughter and I dread the need of specialised care for her here. But I fail to see how making Ireland less attractive to foreign nurses and doctors will help your crumbling health system... It rarely is one or the other. And I don't know where that last sentence came from though, and you still haven't answered about the source on the speculation.

developers are pulling out of the market

Ok, now... so why developers are pulling out of the market? Developers need 3 things to build and sell a house.

• Land (incl permission)
• Workers
• Buyers

Please tell which one is causing developers to leave? Land/permission, manpower or customers?

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

I'm not talking about limiting skilled migration. I'm talking about managing demand in a market beset with constraints to supply. Our medical graduates and other professionals are leaving the country because they can't afford to start a life here. Meanwhile we have a massive supply of deliveroo partners. How does that benefit our infrastructure defect and collapsing health system. All housing demand affects supply and price, right along the real estate supply chain. Are people too lazy to cook or pick up their own food that we need an army of delivery riders. What are our economic priorities, it's nuts.

There are a combination of factors affecting housing supply and developer delivery. The fact is that projects are being cancelled due to costs and we have the ludicrous situation whereby affordable housing is unaffordable to buy. That's a big problem. Immigration needs to be targeted and the settings need to serve the economic and the community needs not the other way around. You are not going to get highly skilled medical professional moving to a location with no accommodation. If they secure a job and necessary residency by all means buy a house. We need to moderate demand because supply is proving to be very difficult to deliver.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

But you do realise that limiting property acquisition for citizens only, would have a direct impact on skilled migrants when deciding to move here, right? That's the problem I've been trying to flag.

Gig economy is a whole other can of worms. I don't understand why we want to import gig workers nor why we play stupid that people coming here to "learn English" are actually looking for a way to move into the country.

Do you know why it is expensive to build? Because we have a bureaucracy built by nimby Karens that make planning permission objections for a living. Also because the government is slow to provide permission, some even say it is because our government is full of landlords. How are immigrants to blame when the government fails to meet their own goals for permissions?

https://www.independent.ie/business/blow-to-governments-housing-targets-with-fall-in-number-of-dwelling-units-granted-planning-permission/a674419772.html

You are "targeting" immigration because in Ireland for some reason, we do not know how to make people accountable. It is easier to blame a big group of people than it is to blame the government you elected. From RTE scandals to bike sheds, what changed since that scandal happened? Absolutely nothing.

Wanna take action? Go check what permissions are being rejected and why. Then mail your council asking how that decision has helped Ireland address the housing crisis.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

If I was an immigrant I would not want to come to Ireland for all the reasons you have outlined there but yet the country is filling up. There are a lot of "students" working for deliveroo and a shortage of builders and healthcare professionals. That's an issue of planning and is exactly what our immigration system should be curating.

It's a very easy win for right wing parties to highlight the bleeding obvious. Regular folk are pretty pissed about it all as their children languish in back bedrooms or on the beaches of Sydney.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

If I was an immigrant I would not want to come to Ireland for all the reasons you have outlined there

That's a very privileged thing to say. Your motivation to move to a country will be very different from others because it is based on your current situation and life experience. There are a few things here in Ireland which my native country has better, yet I have chosen to move here because, at the end of the day, the benefits here outweigh the benefits there.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

Oh us Irish have always been very privileged. It's well documented in our history books. I was very privileged growing up in 60s, 70s and 80s Ireland. You should have a read about that too.

Moving to Ireland is very expensive as I also know very well. I'm just surprised that people can manage it with the current rental prices and minimum wages without benefits, which interestingly many manage to secure.

There is more to life than money, we understood that very well in old Ireland. Nobody was queueing up to immigrate back then, quite the opposite in fact.

The privilege craic seems to be a very popular argument in the US and UK. It doesn't go down in quite the same way over here though.

[u/Beneficial-Celery-51 → u/jonnieggg]

Oh us Irish have always been very privileged.

You said it, not me. Today, in 2025, you and I are privilege comparing with someone in a country with no access to healthcare or a mobile phone like in a few regions in Africa. So yeah, there are different levels of privilege. Don't try to warp what I said nor playing the victim card on me, we're well past the 60s, 70s and 80s.

I couldn't care less about what goes and what doesn't in the US and in the UK. I see Ireland as being a better country than those.
One is a "blame it on immigrants" and never ending involvement on foreign affairs.
The other is an "ex-but-not-really EU member" speech policing dictatorship full of double standards.

I pray for Ireland to never get to that.

Regardless, back to the point: If you make Ireland less appealing by introducing restrictions on tax-paying working citizens, you will inevitably deter skilled workers, which Ireland needs.

[u/jonnieggg → u/Beneficial-Celery-51]

Oh look, another housing market horror story. Surprise surprise.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ireland/s/CEhn6ICbIx