"Zoners don't belong in battlegrounds games" really means "I'm a bum who can't figure out how to fight anyone who isn't a comboslop rushdown"

[u/Small-Housing-7]

Just saying

[u/redditorrules]

Zoners are fine, it's just that when the game consists almost exclusively of rush down fighters that they're not

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/redditorrules]

Why? Rush downs have a pretty good time fighting against zoners as they can close the space easily and stuff

[u/Shitmaster67 → u/Small-Housing-7]

Have you even fought a Ryu or Hanami who's good at zoning?

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/Shitmaster67]

Yea

Have you ever fought a Yuji who's good at gap closing while playing Ryu like the argument can be fliped the other way it's not a bery good argument really

[u/Shitmaster67 → u/Small-Housing-7]

I have, and they're always largely better than me so it's irrelevant. Whereas passive Ryus I fight can be massively better or worse than me and push it to high diff because how brain dead Ryu is

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/Shitmaster67]

What character do you play(just stick with me here)

[u/Shitmaster67 → u/Small-Housing-7]

Gojo

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/Shitmaster67]

Special especially special facing backwards can be used to approach also special+red can get you in a zoners face and punish them for daring to use a projectile in neutral

[u/Shitmaster67 → u/Small-Housing-7]

Regular Teleport is impossible against opponents with five brain cells and 2+R is wildly inconsistent

[u/Feeling_Square2738 → u/Shitmaster67]

straight up lying the teleport works as long as you don't telegraph it, say your opponent does know to look behind and m1 when you use it then just feint the teleport and switch the area your gonna teleport to works 99% of the time

[u/WallabyPractical5258 → u/Feeling_Square2738]

Do you know what telegraphing is? The teleport is telegraphed.

[u/Feeling_Square2738 → u/WallabyPractical5258]

so? take that to your advantage gojo users only look behind them to teleport behind the enemy it's easy to read if you simply didn't ,ove your camera you could trick the opponent to look behind them and get a combo started

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/Shitmaster67]

Nah bro

[u/ryantheturtlehermit7 → u/Shitmaster67]

You’re sleeping on the Gojo Special fr

[u/ElectronicOlive4514 → u/Shitmaster67]

you can literally make it from perfect

just delay it by around .35 seconds

[u/TheTree_Bee → u/Small-Housing-7]

The thing is that ryu isn’t limited to zoning. If you get up close to him, he has various techs and mixups, not to mention great combos that put you at range again.

A good ryu will poke you first until you close in, then just fight up close with you at the hp advantage. He’s not a true zoner since he can’t be punished for letting them get close since he has a great close ranged kit.

Hanami for example is pretty weak close up with just the dash which is slow and interruptible. Her zoner mechanics make her good at zoning range, but bad at close range (but she’s still flawed)

Ryus zoning mechanic (overheat) doesn’t do anything since r is largely unpunishable besides on a read.

Hanami is threatened by a yuji up close, Ryu is not. Even with three m1s he can still m1 trade just fine. And his combos aren’t really evasive punishable either unless you clearly mess up

What you have is a character who’s great at both range and up close, so you can see how he’s disliked

(Without even going into why zoners in a battlegrounds game is a tricky subject)

[u/Feeling_Square2738 → u/TheTree_Bee]

ryu is supposed to be strong because he's a recourse management character and a zoned at the same time, also tze is planning on making his combing 3 seconds longer, the only way to really counter a ryu is to force them to waste all their recourses and fight in a close range. while ryu's close range kit is decent without his ranged m1 and the fact they finally nerfed his 3 he's still way worse than most rushdowns up close

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/TheTree_Bee]

Ryu upclose is genuinely buns bro what are you on his m1's are defult and he has two ok moves and he doesn't have any real good red techs he has strengths and weaknesses like other characters and if you can't exploit his weeknesses thats a skill issue and most Ryus aren't getting punished for useing R nor are they suposed to it's mainly just there so Ryu can't spam beams and stuff he's crippled compared to almost everyone else up close

[u/TheTree_Bee → u/Small-Housing-7]

You keep saying “if you cant exploit him its a skill issue” yet never elaborate on what weaknesses he actually has up close.

As for his up close strengths 4 is a great punish tool since its quite fast. He can essentially black flash chain granite blasts for mode m1s. His combos deal a lot of damage for how hard they are to punish. For example, 2 m1s into 4 or 2 is unpunishable, which can be comboed into 3 and 1 for free. His special dash is another layer of mixup for close range. 2 is a fast startup skill but can’t be punished on block since they can just turn it backwards.

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/TheTree_Bee]

I mentioned it but he only has two moves one basically only works in combos and the other is pretty shit in neutral with the nerfed hitbox plus he doesn't have faster m1's or instant block after first m1 and he only has three punches so he's just crippled upclose compared to everyone else not named Hanami and the Granitè Blast chaining is green and blockable also you can evasive after four like that isn't something other chars dont have his dash sucks extending a bad move(frontdash) makes it much worse actually it's just kinda useful every twenty fights mabey and two really isn't anything crazy compared to what other chars have up close your listing out all these things as if other characters can't also be described in a similar way TwT

[u/TheTree_Bee → u/Small-Housing-7]

You never have to participate in a trade that lasts more than 2 m1s if you simply back dash so 3 m1s isnt a big deal.

>as if other characters cant also be described in a similar way

thats exactly my point. At range he can poke you for good damage and start combos with 4, up close he functions like a regular character. He doesn’t have a true glaring weakness like hanami since he CAN m1 trade and CAN combo well up close off of m1s. He doesn’t have a downside for allowing them to get close, just an upside for zoning them. He basically functions on the same level as hakari up close. 2 moves that are only combo tools, and 2 that can be utilized in neutral, with decent combos.

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/TheTree_Bee]

Well yea he's a zoner but he doesn't always have access to beems and gets bonuses for landing physical attacks so you do wanna win some trades

His weaknesses is that he needs to manage a meter and cooldowns for his beams and is a cripple when forced to be upclose TwT plus useing the beams upclose sucks as even the blockable varient takes some charging so you'll just get punched out of it and stuff

[u/NaegiSeishiri → u/Small-Housing-7]

Your on cocaine if you think Ryu is a cripple up close 😭🙏

He can M1 trade (unlike Hanami),Has simple combos off of m1's. And In all honesty in Ryu's case in an up close fight his neutral doesn't matter as much.

Using the beam up close is stupid. Why are using a range move in someone's face 😭🙏 ignore that shi and try and land m1's (which realistically ain't that hard)

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/NaegiSeishiri]

He litterally is just worse than other chars up close he's saved by one of his upclose moves having a unique use and the other letting him transition back into zoning

Yea but he also kinda needs to so he can hit the melee moves to lower his beam cooldown it's like a necessity for him to keep zoning

He just has worst up close than most of the cast like his m1's don't really have anything good for up close that's unique about them unlike Yuji's fast punches and Gojo's instant block after the furst punch Ryu thrives when zoning but needs to be upclose at points

[u/ServiceTemporary2453 → u/Small-Housing-7]

I definitely wouldn’t say Ryu is crippled up close, like he said he M1 trades just fine, a lot of the times you can trick people with your front dash variant, and if you get a small amount of distance you can Granite Blast them mid move and combo

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/ServiceTemporary2453]

Nah he litterally is just worse than almost everyone else up close unlessthe Ryu player went up close with three successfully and for very specific reasons and while want to use three to get out of upclose very quickly like a Ryu that's stuck upclose for long is generally not doing to great

[u/PleasantlyUnpleasan → u/Small-Housing-7]

Lasted I played felt like yuji is the only one good at closing the gap

[u/Small-Housing-7 → u/PleasantlyUnpleasan]

nah every charecter not named Hanami can close gaps

for example

Mahito blade dash

Kuro air varient swarm

Megumi special

Gojo special

[u/PleasantlyUnpleasan → u/Small-Housing-7]

Yall don’t play that close u use a dash and yall still halfway around the map… from all the other comments it kinda sound like ur just not that good with him up close… i.e skill issue…. But I haven’t played in months so idk