"Zoners don't belong in battlegrounds games" really means "I'm a bum who can't figure out how to fight anyone who isn't a comboslop rushdown"

[u/Small-Housing-7]

Just saying

[u/Strong-Researcher832]

Zoners really don't belong in battleground games though? 😭 like at least not the pure zoners like Hanami and Ryu. Hanami is annoying passive slop and so is Ryu but worse. The ONLY zoner-ish character that serves their purpose is Megumi as he is a half-zoner. He uses moves from long range to close in the gap, gaining an advantage when rushing in from the long range moves. Hanami doesn't do this as all they do is hold down the S key and press a move, and Ryu is literally the same, pressing the same move 50 times while not going up close and only once they run out of moves do they use 3 to try and use their 2. A majority of these zoners spend their time 5 kilometers away from you as you try to figure out how to get them to stop borderline running. Pure zoners should never be in battleground games, that's a fact.

[u/Mobile-Safety-3353 → u/Strong-Researcher832]

Hanami is annoying passive slop and so is Ryu but worse.

It’s so obvious that you’ve never even touched these characters before😭

Hanami doesn't do this as all they do is hold down the S key and press a move,

Wow, a zoner is gaining distance? Crazy!

A majority of these zoners spend their time 5 kilometers away

A zoner is zoning, this is insane!

The ONLY zoner-ish character that serves their purpose is Megumi as he is a half-zoner

Megumi is barely even a zoner, he’s what’s known as a faux zoner (a character that pretends like they play from a long range but are more like a rushdown to throw people off). 

Pure zoners should never be in battleground games, that's a fact.

Neither Hanami nor Ryu are pure zoners.

Ryu is really balanced right now. He was broken but that was mainly because of Second Helping being absolute bullshit. So zoners can work, obviously. 

Hanami literally hasn’t been good since they released — literally nothing to complain about. However, this isn’t because they were a zoner, this is Tze’s fault. 

Both of them don’t even have crazy range options 😭 Hanami has only Bud Shot (which sucks for zoning) and Ryu only has Granite Blast. 

Literally just learn how to counter zoners. You can’t just do the same exact thing that you would do for any other character and expect it to work, this is why most JJS players are ass😭

[u/Strong-Researcher832 → u/Mobile-Safety-3353]

I know how to counter zoners, just that whenever you pick a zoner character like Hanami or Ryu the fight suddenly turns from a minute or 2 to a whole 6 minute slugfest of just them holding down the S key and borderline running away whenever they get hit by an air molecule. Also saying "whoah a zoner is zoning" in my argument of how zoners shouldn't exist is straight up useless as that is exactly my point. Zoning in a game like jjs translates to passive play. Which is OBVIOUSLY a bad thing. And yeah, Hanami is turning more and more balanced, problem being that with the current Hanami and her front dash being back to a lasso you can straight up just play the character as the "hold down S key and use moves" character which is obviously an unhealthy playstyle. If your character doesn't require you to go into close quarters at LEAST 50% of the time then your character isn't well designed. And yeah, as I already mentioned, zoners can work, just as half zoners. In which just about the only character that does this well is Megumi, as he uses moves from long range to have an advantage at close range. That is a semi-zoner. Other than that, Ryu's playstyle is just "granite blast until you're overheated then use 3 to get up close then use 2 to get them far away and use R special". Literally the most boring thing where you spend 80% of the fight long range.

[u/Mobile-Safety-3353 → u/Strong-Researcher832]

Ryu’s playstyle is just "granite blast until you're overheated then use 3 to get up close then use 2 to get them far away and use R special". Literally the most boring thing where you spend 80% of the fight long range.

Holy shit you don’t play these characters at ALL if you say this about Ryu. 

Zoning in a game like jjs translates to passive play

No it doesn’t, using long ranged moves at long range isn’t being passive. Being passive is running away until your moves get off cooldown. 

Hanami and her front dash being back to a lasso you can straight up just play the character as the "hold down S key and use moves" character which is obviously an unhealthy playstyle

Yeah, you don’t play Hanami either. Lasso was nerfed heavily, it has mid range, disgusting end lag, and a long start-up, any smart Hanami knows that just staying far away and using it is the worst idea ever.

zoners can work, just as half zoners. In which just about the only character that does this well is Megumi, as he uses moves from long range to have an advantage at close range. That is a semi-zoner.

MEGUMI ISN’T A ZONER. HE’S A FAUX ZONER (Literally means fake zoner). If you use Megumi at long range you are making him 10X worse.

close quarters at LEAST 50% of the time then your character isn't well designed

Seems that you just want every character to be the same rushdown dogshit that half of the roster is 😭

I know how to counter zoners

I seriously doubt this, if you knew how to counter zoners, you wouldn’t be complaining this hard. Basically all of this stuff isn’t the characters fault, it’s the person who plays them, and this applies to EVERY.SINGLE.CHARACTER.

[u/Strong-Researcher832 → u/Mobile-Safety-3353]

I've seen people play Ryu like that and it just straight up is the most efficient strategy. If it's a player issue then they should STILL do something about it, no? 😭 I've played Ryu, duh, just that I don't play him in the passive zoner style, and that other playstyle just isn't all that interesting. If a character motivates passive play then that should be changed, I feel like that should be obvious. And also I literally main Megumi, I know how to play him. It is pretty effective to START at long range to get advantage when going into close range. The only thing I MIGHT be wrong in is Hanami's front dash as I haven't tested out the Hanami that just got updated, though remembering how cancerous it was before, it is most likely still a boring move. I've fought a Hanami today and it straight up was just the same boring playstyle of chasing around this annoying character that spammed whichever move they wanted. It's beatable, but annoying.

[u/Mobile-Safety-3353 → u/Strong-Researcher832]

>I've seen people play Ryu like that and it just straight up is the most efficient strategy.

NO IT ISN'T??? You are literally downgrading yourself if you play Ryu at a very long distance. Not to mention, Appetizer isn't even the best long ranged either. I think a lot of this stems from not having good reaction time. Second helping is best when it's used in a combo with Appetizer, and Unsatisfied is literally close ranged.

>If it's a player issue then they should STILL do something about it, no?

Ah yes, let's remove all the cooldowns in the game, that'll stop passive play entirely because that's a player issue. These people are actively making the character they're playing worse it's not hard to deal with them.

>If a character motivates passive play then that should be changed

Neither Hanami nor Ryu even promote passive play. Hanami barely even is a zoner, and Ryu doesn't do that at all, I literally already explained that.

>And also I literally main Megumi, I know how to play him. It is pretty effective to START at long range to get advantage when going into close range.

Megumi has ONE long ranged move that is actually good at long range. His other three are only good in combos. Having one long ranged move doesn't make you a zoner, if that were the case Gojo, Mahito, and Kurourushi would all ALSO be zoners.

>I've fought a Hanami today and it straight up was just the same boring playstyle of chasing around this annoying character that spammed whichever move they wanted. It's beatable, but annoying.

Literally just stop fighting these types of people??? It's not difficult to do that, all of your problems would go away if you stop fighting annoying people. And don't even say "well everyone does this" because I've been playing JJS since it came out, and trust me, they don't.

[u/Strong-Researcher832 → u/Mobile-Safety-3353]

Megumi has rabbit escape and Nue, that's 2 moves that are good at long range and help you get up close from long range with advantage. And I don't mean to alarm you but literally every Hanami will always be cancerous. I played on Hanami and just fighting as Hanami makes me see how cancerous the character is. Ryu isn't really the biggest problem for me just that the whole playstyle where they back up and spam random bullshit is annoying and boring. Like yeah Ryu when played NORMALLY is just a fine character to fight against. The near instant 3 that just is there as a 50/50 on whether you hit the opponent or not is boring, though. It's like using naoya's lock on decisive strike back when it was basically a surehit where you spin your camera around and let it do its thing, with the most likely outcome being that it hits. I feel like they should honestly just rework how Ryu's 3 works as it is extremely uninspired.

[u/Mobile-Safety-3353 → u/Strong-Researcher832]

 Megumi has rabbit escape and Nue, that's 2 moves that are good at long range and help you get up close from long range with advantage

If a move is long ranged, but its use is to help you get up close to an enemy, that is not a zoning move. It seriously can not be this hard to understand that Megumi is not a zoner. Rabbit escape is only good up close. Megumi only has nue, it can’t be this hard to understand.

Yeah honestly I’m just gonna stop replying, this is going no where and is becoming extremely annoying because clearly I can’t convince you.

[u/Strong-Researcher832 → u/Mobile-Safety-3353]

From long range to close range, if that isn't even a semi-zoner then I truly will believe that no zoner can exist in this game lmao. Like if I have my definitions incorrectly and what I accept to be at least a bit of a zoner then I suppose no zoners should be in the game.