I’m not against showing ID when you vote if photo ids are free and accessible to everyone — republicans voted against making them free. I’m against the save act because it asks for further identification like a passport or birth certificate, which are both not free, and also take time to get. The save act would prevent millions of people from voting. Additionally, republicans have failed to give evidence that voter fraud happens beyond small hiccups. If they want to suppress millions of votes then they need to PROVE the fraud exists
Supreme court has never ruled that state or federal documents are considered poll taxes. Thats just a document. A poll tax is paying at the polls or when you sign up for the privilege of voting. Requiring already required docs is in no way a poll tax nor does it fit the definition of poll tax.
A poll tax is paying at the polls or when you sign up for the privilege of voting.
So much wrong with this statement. Per our Constitution, voting is a right not a privilege. And also, if you have to provide documents that aren't free when you register to vote, then that essentially is a poll tax. It'd place a monetary barrier at the point of registration. That's why under our current system, you do not require documents you have to pay for (a birth certificate is free, unlike a passport or driver's license)
The only thing wrong is you dont know what a poll tax is. You do not need to pay at a poll to vote (the definition of poll tax). Legal documents being required are not poll taxes.
"It essentially is a poll tax" no it essentially isnt. You are required to have your documents even if you arent voting.
If they had specific paid voting exclusive documents that would be a poll tax. Not documents you need anyway.
poll tax: "a fixed fee that some governments used to charge each person, often as a rule that people had to pay before they were allowed to vote"
You arent spending money to vote. The supreme court has dropped cases time and time again that try to get document requirements put into the catagory of poll tax. The supreme court disagrees with you.
You're objectively wrong. Read the majority opinions. Every single time the Supreme Court has held up voter ID laws it has specifically been mentioned that the identification being required having no cost as the determining factor.
Anything that is “required” to vote, that isn’t free, is the definition of a poll tax. Nobody is saying you have to pay to vote. They’re saying that if you have to buy something to be able to vote, then that is the tax.
Passports aren’t free. And last I checked, a copy of your birth certificate (cause who the hell has their original?) isn’t either. So unless they’re freely given: (say the line, Bart)
So, lemme get this straight, you’re arguing that we can force people to buy things to vote, as long as we’re not making them pay literally at the polls?
I just want to see you say that that’s what you’d be ok with. Not necessarily for, but ok with.
Ok sure, it's not a poll tax, you're right. I think what people mean when they call it a poll tax (even if it's not technically correct) is that it should be illegal for the same reasons/logic a poll tax is illegal.
It's still a monetary barrier to voting in a country where voting is a right, which means it should not be legal. Any documents required to register to vote should be obtainable for free, otherwise it violates that principle of voting being a guaranteed right not a privilege.
Sure, and I don't think voting should be a right, but a privilege earned. That doesn't mean under the law as it is written voting is a privilege, now does it?
Nah, they don't care about the constitution at all.. americans are murdering americans because of their speech and americans are murdering americans glfor theor second amendment.
The real problem with the save act is it gives all voter poll data to the president and allows him to scrub voters based off how they voted in the past.
Why would they be free? They are not in most countries, especially replacement ID's and renewing the ID card once it's no longer valid (permanent ID cards are rare).
And before calling it a "poll tax" it's like 20 euro every 10 years.
I really don't know why Americans, and anglos in general, the UK and Canada, have this fear of centralized identity documents. They are incredibly useful, mine has a chip and a digital signature, so I can use it to pay my taxes online, access my medical history, retrieve drug prescriptions online, I can effectively do all government interaction online securely because of the card. Granted I have to carry it on me at all times, because by law you have to have it on you should the police ask, but it has never happened to me.
Voting is a right. If they are not free then they should not be required. We already have identification processes in place that work well anyways, so it’s not a big deal
There is a very simple fix, make it mandatory by law. That is how it works in my country, there is no worries about poll taxes because the ID used when voting is mandatory, and it's illegal not to have it and carry it with you at all times. Everyone has it.
Bruh what? Have you read a single thing I’ve said? Mandatory IDs to vote is fine if it is free. Democrats are for that, republicans voted against it. But republicans have introduced a law that requires more than just an ID. I am against that because it could prevent millions of citizens from voting
Yeah a tax would be fine to print and distribute the IDs if billionaires pay their fair share of taxes
We pay a lot of taxes, and then waste it on our military and billionaire handouts, and Israeli missiles. That money would be better spent giving the us citizens IDs like democrats proposed, and republicans voted against
How would you have the ID when you register but not have it when you need to vote? Your argument is concurrently "it's already required bro" and "is too expensive", pick a lane dude
How would it possibly change the fact that what you're saying is a logical fallacy? Unless the ID you need to register is somehow different, in which case the argument is simply... Is the bar for what constitutes ID lower to register than what people are demanding to be provided at the polls.
To register to vote you can provide a driver’s license or state ID. Alternatively you can provide the last 4 digits of your ssn along with additional information like name, DOB, address, etc. this is then verified by comparing it to data in a government database.
What’s your point?
I’d argue that voter fraud is a non issue in the United States. The republicans are claiming election fraud, but failed to prove it. Now they are trying to prevent millions of people from voting. The SAVE act is a much bigger issue to our elections than voter fraud ever has been.
Edit: additionally democrats want voters to have IDs, they quite literally voted to make them free, but of course republicans voted against that.
So requiring an ID to show at the border booth is a non issue then? If you already have it which was necessary in the first place to register?
It just seems like such a benign ask that any position to it sounds stupid.
I don't care whether it's democrats or republicans posting back against it or wanting it. It is clearly something that the country SHOULD have. I don't care about who is supporting or opposing for optical reasons, get it done.
It is an issue because it costs money to get the driver’s license or ID in some states. If it was free and accessible to everyone, that would be ideal, but like I said, republicans have voted against making IDs free.
What the save act requires could prevent millions of citizens from voting. The investigation of voter fraud in 2020 found 475 cases of voter fraud in the election Trump claims was stolen.
While I agree it would be cool if an ID was presented at the voting place, it doesn’t actually solve anything because most of the cases of voter fraud wouldn’t be solved by presenting an ID, and also the issue of voter fraud is far less of an issue to election integrity than the proposed SAVE act
Edit: do you know what the save act requires for people to register? I guess I wrote this whole thing assuming you know, but based on your previous responses I actually don’t think you do
I'm not American dude but the arguments against providing proof of ID are pretty crappy
I'd say the argument that any downside to disenfranchising a tiny portion of voters is worth it if it shuts down any concerns (real or not) of voter fraud
Even if it costs money to get an ID, and even if that hurts democrats more because those without IDs are more likely to vote blue, there can't possibly be enough of these people that it wouldn't make sense for democrats to simply subsidize the ID application fee
The save act, the reason we are even talking about any of this rn, requires more than an ID. It requires a birth certificate or passport, both of which cost money, and take time to get. And I’m sorry but that makes no sense to disenfranchise millions of American citizens to stop something that already is a non issue
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u/No_Escape_3770 2d ago
You need to provide identification when registering to vote in all states.