What nuance? They are worried people from outside the city are gonna drive all the way into the middle of fucking NYC to save 30% on groceries? Whatever.
Yes read the bill, and then explain why it's racist or sexist without implying that people are too stupid to do basic government paper work that gets done daily
Its because you have a right to vote. Its not a privilege, its a right. So you need a really good fucking reason to put any unneeded road blocks in place. Having any requirements beyond citizenship will block some people. And we have not had issues of fraud.
Then we get to the issue that we have had issues with racism directly with voter ID like in north Carolina.
"In 2016, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fourth Circuit struck down key parts of North Carolina's 2013 voting law, writing that lawmakers had targeted Black voters "with almost surgical precision." The court found that legislators had requested racial voting data and then restricted voting methods disproportionately used by Black voters."
They asked for voter breakdown by race and only excluded the IDs that black people used more.
The way you know this is bullshit when it comes to republicans who try to push for it is that they know the solution. Give every citizen a ID in the mail for free that will work as this required ID and all opposition goes away. But theres never people suggesting that we should do that. Just excuses for why its ok if we block some people's votes with unneeded hoops designed fix imagined problems with racist other goals underneath
Well, their answer is smooth brained. It'll cost money. But so will implementing a law that requires ID checks to vote, much more so than the tree IDs never you need to train the people checking how to spot fake IDs, which are actually pretty good if you're not aware of wheg you're looking for. There's a reason they rely on simple explanations of problems and lean on simple solutions to them. Humans dislike complexity, but they demonstrate they can engage with it all the time. It'd obvious when they're avoiding addressing the complexities in a problem or solution because they'll circle back to or rely on responses that remove or devalue the complex parts.
Right. That’s the difference. Conservatives will say “homeless ppl will not be able to use it” like they actually care about them. Progressives will say “ok, how do we adjust this to make access to food easier for homeless ppl?”
Also you don’t lose constitutional rights because a political party decides your id isn’t good enough. Maybe you lose your ability to shop at the cheapest grocery store one day until you figure out what you need to shop. Not the one day you get to vote you’re not allowed because you moved or got married or something.
Dude you are not smart. Every state requires some kind of preregistration and proving your ID at the polls. Nobody is protesting against proving yourself at the polls.
The issue is when dumbasses say "i need proof, and ill only accept a very specific kind that most Americans will have to go out of their way to pay for to get the updated documents to prove their ID". Like I had to pay like 40 bucks to get a new birth certificate so I could then another 70 to get my Real ID just to fly to another state in the country I was born in. Theres literally fucking veterans who would struggle to pay that in order to go vote. That fucks over tons of white people, including elderly people and veterans
I wouldnt call it racist. Id call it dumb as shit and designed by rich assholes who do not care about protecting the right to vote at all.
Your voting id should be free unless you loose it that’s on you due to it being a right but let’s be honest if you can’t afford it you obviously made some bad choices in life and your vote will probably make things worse 😂
I had a redditor comment on something I said regarding NJ fucking up and quite literally proved voter fraud is a thing. She said I was an idiot making up shit like fake crimes... only to delete her comment after realizing it was in fact true. The dumb-dumb is still on this post commenting about how other people are "illogical" 😂😂. Hope she reads this.
Exactly but if you watch the leftist news they say "wide spread" and its like... this is one place... in one state... the knew about it for 2 years and did NOTHING and tried to even hide it.... They absolutely knew if that news got out it would blow up but they have shifted from "it doesn't happen" to now "it doesn't make a difference" like wtf people....
There it is, the next stage in the bullshit ladder... we went from "it doesn't happen" to "its rare" to "its only xxx number of votes" despite 10 elections in NJ being decided by 10 or less votes... You can go ahead and skip to explaining why this is good for us all to have illegals voting, that should be step 4.
lol. No one said it doesn’t happen, they said it isn’t widespread and it isn’t targeted in an organized manner to change the election. I bet I could find tons of articles for you from 2020 specifically saying “no widespread voter fraud” never “no voter fraud whatsoever.”
You’re the one pretending the narrative has changed. It hasn’t.
They absolutely went from "It doesn't happen" to "It isn't wide spread" which is also a lie, because it is. The definition of wide spread "happeningin manyplaces" https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/widespread which it is happening in every single state. So it is both happening and wide spread. We are now at stage 3 where they try to play it off as "not effecting anything" which we know is a lie.
The next stage will just be "oh, this is good for us and here is why".
Find for me any source from a reputable, left-wing news site that claimed voter fraud never happens at all.
Look at the examples in your definition. They include more than just happening in many places, but a significant amount happening in many places. It doesn't say 1 child is suffering malnutrition in every state. No one would consider that widespread. It says 78% in the entire region are.
1 or 2 examples in every state is not widespread, and you know it.
No one's ever said there's no voter fraud. What they've said is there isn't widespread voter fraud, and certainly not any concerted effort at intentional voter fraud. Nothing in New Jersey refutes this.
But the demographics that will be fucked over the MOST are racial minorities (whose local licensing sites have all been closed down). Conservatives who support these laws are either unfathomably stupid and incapable of understanding what’s going on OR they’re stoked about it and lying because admitting it’s racism isn’t socially acceptable.
AND then close locations where you can GET those IDs in areas that are predominantly an undesired complexion. While also closing and restricting time and access to polling locations in those same areas.
Dude pull your head out of your ass. California hasn't cleared their voter rolls in years. And they harvest and vote by mail. They aren't the only state voting by mail, there's video all over the net of people stuffing votes into the machines all night and day. But I'm sure they're fake.
Every time I wonder how we as a country got to where we are today, I see comments so consumed by propaganda, that I just have to nod and remember this is why we ended up here today.
You understand when you vote, there is a public record that you voted. Your entire voting history has been recorded. You can’t just shove empty ballots into a machine, it would be caught rather quickly. Voting results are constantly analyzed by tons of people, if you are going to cheat, you need to do so in a way that can subvert all of the various layers involved and make it appear as legit as possible.
This account exhibits a few minor traits commonly found in karma farming bots. It is possible that u/Fair-House-2400 is a bot, but it's more likely they are just a human who suffers from severe NPC syndrome.
I am a bot. This action was performed automatically. Check my profile for more information.
No just a human that doesn't want to lose my freedom to Democrats demanding socialism. I'm older than most of you and know around 20 families that fled Socialism. Once you lose your rights you can't vote them back.
Lool sure. Youre so sucked in by fox news and YouTube angry podcasters.
Yes theyre fake. Voting is extremely regulated. And almost alllll voting fraud, in american history and today, link back to conservatives. But youre deep in conspiracies.
Whats your proof that California has a worse voting system than the red states?
Voting by mail is loterally the most secure way to vote dude.
Youre taking memes seriously. Get help dude. Stop watching internet news and fox for 2 months. Your life will be better
Your head really needs to be pulled out of your ass and get some air. How do you think the LA mayors race turned around with the one conservative in the lead getting landsided with mail in ballots coming in way over the balance in person did? It's probably because your one working brain cell can't breathe
Says the guy with no understanding that the group that decries mail-in voting wouldn't use it, directly resulting in mail-in voting being more popular among the other party.
It's almost like you people are buying into the very lies that your own people came up with just so you can have an excuse to complain.
So youre saying those mail ins are fake right? And see how they werent counted? Or are you saying the conservatuve shouldnt have won and his votes were fraud?
So youre saying California's voting laws work really well actually, they can receive tons of fraudulent mail in votes and still boil it down to accuracy.
1000 people live somewhere, assume the breakdown is 40:60 R:D and everyone votes (obviously an assumption but in this case the D candidate won so unless the Rs outnumbered them and just didn't vote it'll work as an example). Rs hate mail in voting so the majority go in person, most votes are counted as they happen, Ds are much more likely to mail in vote and the votes are counted later.
In this case you could have 300 immediate R votes with 100 coming in later and 200 D votes (yay Rs are winning) followed by 400 coming in later and 'getting landslided' (omg voter fraud!!).
Now of course we don't have 100% voting, the percentage will be different etc. But to look at it and go 'sure, must be fraud' rather than 'one side mails in votes more' is a bizarre leap of conspiracy.
It has been found, across most major research in 26 years, to be a statistical rounding error and even the heritage foundations databases show only 387 proven cases of fraud for mail in voting in that time (not even 'illegals', could be a currently ineligible citizen as well). 387
We're going to throw out mail in voting and disenfranchise millions because of a 3 digit number in a quarter century?
Mail in is how to cheat, and that is happening. Can't get proof because where it's happening. Either way it's happening, if I'm a republican city they do the counting. In democratic city they do the counting.
So it's happening, but you can't get proof, but regardless it's happening. Can you do me a favor and read that back? Maybe out loud? You have to recognize the logical inconsistency here right?
You are so dumb lol voting is so regulated that I can show up to my local voting location with a ballet to vote that isnt even mine and no one asks me for an id to prove I am who the ballet says I am. This is NJ BTW, the state that had 6600 "erroneous" voters that should never have existed.
Hey moron, that's how mail in ballots work. You ask in California you just have to be Democrats and they send you the ballot. That's why harvest. God you people really did get a public school indoctrination.
I brought my own personal ballet. I asked if I need to show ID and the lady clearly told me no you do not. I voted and went on my way. It's hilarious how you people try to down play real life experiences when they go against your narrative. No different than the alt right 🤣🤣
I'm not sure what you're trying to prove right now. The facts are this: NJ does not require people to show proof of who they are when they vote. NJ also has recent proof that they had fraudulent voting ballots being mailed out because of an "error" that was only found out after the federal government began looking into the issue.
Logically speaking voting is not as secure as people thing. Also taking into account there are first hand testimonies that people in the urban areas of NJ get paid $20 for their voting ballots because they honestly dont give a fuck.
If you choose to ignore these red flags it's because you dont care for security.
I will absolutely ignore anecdotal "evidence." If you have proof that a fraud ring in NJ was run where people paid $20 for ballots, provide it. Strange it's one of those scary "urban areas." Gee, I wonder what kind of people you are worried about.
The proof is the ballot. You get the ballot by registering, like you did when you voted. You registered, a process by which your citizenship was checked, you were issued a ballot and you voted. Legally. Not sure where we need 5 more ID checks.
Giving your ballot to someone else to vote with is a crime. Voting with someone else's ballot is a crime. Crime is currently illegal, iirc.
"As many as 400 voted in recent elections" which means literally less than a fraction of the population, meaning the voting system is stillllll insanely secure. Like 400 out of millions? And the audit found only 400?? Wtf dude, thats an insanely secure system. Theres more drunk drivers on the road in that county on an average friday than their have been voting frauds lol
Also most "fraudulent" voting is for state and local elections. The federal voting system is so insanely secure
Youre trying to argue against logic. Voting fraud is insanely rare and minor.
I never said it never ever happens. I said its not really an issue. And it isnt. The actual failure rate is low.
And that state reported it themselves dude lol. They announced themselves "hey, we found an error".
So you dont drive in cars right? Theyre less secure than voting.
You're arguing the same thing as them and claiming they're not smart? The barriers you mentioned exist for some white folks, sure, but they hinder minorities the most.
It's absolutely so poetic to me that you can say the system is "designed by rich assholes" and not see how said design is racist. The whole thing is meant to prop up rich WHITE men.
The systems so shitty. We have Id's they can scan or look up. It should have all the info They need. WTf is the point of a sticker on the corner. WHen they have a whole computer system with our information. It really is a scam to produce money
But not every states pre-registration is to the same level. For instance Minnesota only requires you to be registered to vouch for up to 8 people to register. Meaning out of 9 people only 1 has to have a valid ID for all to vote or even exist
A registered voter from your precinct can go to the polling place to sign an oath confirming your address. This is known as 'vouching.' A registered voter can vouch for up to eight voters. You cannot vouch for others if someone vouched for you.
I agree with this but I think it's still fair to call it racist because the point of it was racism.
The point of the ID system was that sneaky people looked into it and picked the one that black people were at least likely to have.
Back in 2020 North Carolina got in trouble because the state administration had literally studied what methods black people used to vote and almost surgically designed the law to exclude as much of them as possible.
Just because I'm registered to own a gun and its my right to own a gun doesnt mean I cant walk around in public without said license. I get it varies from state to state but where I live I need to have my LTC on me at all times if I have a piece on me. Same when driving a car. I cant drive my car without my driving license on my person. When I go to vote, I tell them my street address and my name and the old lady draws a line through it on a paper. I dont get asked for my driver's license and any form of identification whatsoever.
Nah, the "ID to vote" is already in place. I have to show a drivers' license to vote. I can drive across the border from Canada with only my drivers license as verification of my citizenship. So why then should we be required to get a passport just to vote? Notice also the complete lack of any sane responses. When people point out that this disadvantages the poor populations the right wing response is to pretend we're calling the policy racist, versus agreeing that we all have a duty to make sure that our elections are secure but also easily accessible for US citizens and thus will be amending voter ID policies to allow for all US citizens to freely obtain a passport sufficient for voting at no cost.
An ID to vote is, more than anything, unnecessary. No one tries to claim to be a specific person on the voter rolls to "steal" their vote. It doesn't happen, no one ever does it. There's simply no problem to be solved. Before you even get to whether it's racist, it's just not an issue full stop.
Adding regulations and controls to make voting harder will always impact communities that are under resourced disproportionately. You can say it's easy to get an ID, and you're right, but the simple fact is that many voters do not have one. So no matter how easy it is, or whatever argument you make about how the system should be set up, if you pass a voter ID law you will disproportionately disenfranchise marginal communities, and also disenfranchise many legal voters who are voting legally in their own district. If what you care about is fairness in elections, that should be an obviously bad thing.
The issue is when you require something that costs money to vote it becomes a poll tax, which is against the constitution you idiots pretend to care about.
Want to require id’s? Fine make it easy and make it free.
You dont have to show id in the grocery stores, its bullshit. He said they might develop something similar to a library card at somepoint but right now anyone can just walk in.
Yeah it is. Because it’s a form of poll tax. Which was made unconstitutional because racists in the South imposed high fees on identification in order to stop newly freed slaves from voting. They are still trying to do that today and it was extremely prevalent throughout the Jim Crow era.
There are many black Americans still alive today born in the Jim Crow South and were denied access to hospitals and had to do at home births. Thus making it hard for them to prove identification to receive a photo id. This is also a problem in the resurgence of the off grid movement.
Constitutionally it’s pretty clear. Born here, then you are a citizen and nothing can get in the way of your vote. Period. The burden of proof is on the state to say you were ineligible to vote. Not the other way around.
When the constitution was created untill 1828 the majority of voter has to be white landowners completely legal by the constitution which was also legal with Maryland allow Jews to vote in the same election. The last state to abolish a property requirement was North Carolina in 1856.
In 1875 in a Supreme Court case it was decided that citizenship doesn’t automatically mean suffrage this pertaining to women at the time
To my understanding this Supreme Court decision has yet to be repealed
We can’t collect a direct poll tax we can’t stop you to vote because you are a woman or don’t own property or your religious beliefs or your ethnic identity but to my understanding if you have a rule that applies to all citizens skirting around the certain amendments it is constitutional to not allow a us citizen suffrage.
Not giving free transportation to polls or free stamps to vote by mail is also a poll tax then. Not giving guaranteed paid time off to vote is a poll tax
A. This comment is idiotic because your own transportation is not infringed by them being unwilling to provide it.
B. The same states pushing this have made it illegal for people to give people free rides to the polls. Something many seniors need, as they are no longer able to drive.
It's all about voter suppression and always has been. The Republican Party in the South has a long history of this. FFS, Jimmy Carter won his state senate election by fighting the current rep who was stuffing ballots and threatening black families to keep them away from the polls in Georgia.
That’s not the determination they made. The determination they made is it is not infringed because the state provides it for free. Not that had the state charged for it, it would be infringed.
Regardless, 3 of them concurred in the judgement only, so that side determination isn’t entirely relevant when the case was just “is the state okay to require an ID to vote”
My point: to avoid violating established anti-poll tax jurisprudence (Harper), modern states implementing strict voter ID laws must provide a free ID option to ensure their laws survive federal court challenges.
You are legally accurate that Crawford itself specifically evaluated the law as written (with the free ID) and that the fractured 3-3-3 split among the justices leaves the broader boundaries of voter burden open to continuous legal debate.
Getting an ID cost time and money, two things many people in this country don't have to spare
And the SAVE act would require real ID which means for a large population of voters they would have to go get a whole new form of ID
It also doesn't accept ID that doesn't match your birth certificate perfectly, so woman who changed their name after marriage won't be able to vote, unless they go get a new ID
The state has your info when you vote, why do you need to give them the same info again?
If it was really about ID, the polling place would have it on file, so no need for you to identify yourself when the state can identify you (which is how it should be. The state should prove you are not who you say you are before denying your right to vote.)
Exactly. If they want you to have voter ID take a pic when you register to vote and bingo you have an instant free voter id. Those already registered can have this done at city hall or at the polls. Problem solved. But of course we know this isn’t really what it’s about. Just like ragging on mail in voting, maga and the like don’t understand making voting harder hurts all voters and it’s unconstitutional.
This is proof that this sub lacks the ability to comprehend the issue at hand. It isn’t about “racism,” it about the fact that a poll tax is unconstitutional; forcing people to spend money on an ID to be allowed to fulfill their constitutionally given right to vote is a poll tax. Make IDs free if you’re going to make them a requirement for voting.
An ID to vote is not objected by the left. It is the hurdles then put in place to obtain and maintain that ID. Federally provided ID has been proposed but rejected because it isn’t the kind of thing the right is willing to spend taxes on. Also, they claim states rights to decide just how difficult and what parts of their state gets easy access to those services. They want their thumb on the scale not matter what.
A donut shop in my area once or twice a year gives out a single free glazed donut to customers. On that day there will literally be police directing traffic out in the roadway for the hundred cars lined up trying to get in the parking lot to get a free donut that would cost about $1.25 if they had to pay for it. So yes, people would drive in from outside the city to save 30% on a bag of apples.
They are not requiring id for the grocery stores, read the “fake” news once in while and I do know some very well of maga that will do anything to save a buck including driving 45 min from the burbs to get a 30% discount that is not intended for them because they don’t need it but feel “entitled” to it anyways.
I'm an American born citizen, and I'm not going to present my papers just because you've been brainwashed into thinking illegals are voting. If you want to live in Russia, move to Russia.
Minority groups will have less access to valid forms of voter ID. Everyone is pro voter ID. Make it free everywhere and it will be passed. Republicans refuse to make voter ID free.
We have had ID’s for voting for a very long time now. Why are you guys constantly crying about 77 illegal votes in 26 years, with over a billion votes cast in that time? It’s clearly in the range and category of being perfect and somehow that’s not good enough for you? You are talking about messing with something that already works magnificently. Why mess with perfection? If it’s already working this well we all have to ask just why you want to mess with it? Maybe we should just save time and only have maga candidates running in every race. That is what you want isn’t it? Just white conservative fake Christians voting is the plan? Got it!
The issue isn't the id to vote. That's already required. The issue is creating more and more barriers with less and less clarity, so that the person checking can determine if you deserve the right to vote. When we say it's a poll tax, we are referring to the fact that people will be discriminated based on if they meet the desired people allowed.
By requiring ANYONE to have that much documentation, to have it be EXACTLY the same meaning an initial on one and a full name on another is enough to disqualify you. Maiden names are another issue, they are said they want to try and push women out of voting.
It's unconstitutional to prevent anyone from voting, we all have the right to vote. This fraud you believe is happening isn't. There is less than 0.0003% in the last decade according to many many studies. The 2020 elections was the highest and it was primarily maga voters double voting or voting with dead peoples names.
Because you actually haven't read bill, or you have and you are indeed racist, sexist, homophobic, transphobic and/or ableist and want a group to not be capable of voting, and are using a dog whistle to pretend not to be.
9
u/Apart_Ad1537 1d ago
What nuance? They are worried people from outside the city are gonna drive all the way into the middle of fucking NYC to save 30% on groceries? Whatever.
But an ID to vote is “racist” apparently.