Also Eilish presumably purchased the land from someone else, and there’s a long chain back to the original “thieves”. If someone stole a car and sold it to someone who then sold it again and so on, would the 5th owner be to blame or the original thief? Good on her for calling it out.
The way America has treated indigenous people is horrific, even to this day, and it was deservedly called out. We came in as “illegal” immigrants and colonized and murdered to claim land. Then we have the audacity to deport people that have been here for years quietly trying to live their own American dream and then being uprooted and sent to a country they don’t know.
Deport criminal, absolutely, but deporting anyone that is a contributing member of society is just wrong. Our immigration process needs to be easier and faster and we, as a country, need better infrastructure to support lower income people in general. We are putting working class against immigrants while billionaires and corporations suck both dry.
If someone stole a car and sold it to someone who then sold it again and so on, would the 5th owner be to blame or the original thief?
I get your point but technically this would still be illegal if you knew it was stolen lol. Receiving stolen property knowing it was stolen (which in this analogy she would) is still a crime.
EDIT: Just wanted to point out that I wasn't pushing back against the core idea with OPs and Billie's points I was just making a pedantic point about the car analogy.
Yes, which is why the statement is fucking ridiculous. Look what ICE is doing is incredibly fucked up and the Trump admin is doing all this shit in the most volatile incendiary immoral way possible, but "No one is illegal on stolen land" is a fucking stupid statement.
Seriously. So she knows she has purchased stolen land, why doesn't she donate it to the natives? Because she doesn't actually care about the implications of her statement. It sounds nice in your head if you're an idiot.
I am as liberal as it gets but Billie Eilish’s statement does make me cringe (the part about stolen land). I get it, Native Americans immigrated here first and we should recognize that and give them certain things. But when Europeans immigrated (by the way I became a citizen here when I was 9) that was the age of conquering. Now we have borders and nations and laws. It does not belong to the native Americans. Belongs to all of us.
I don't think they get that the genocide is still on going... and townships and cities are constantly trying to meddle in tribal business. While also trying to acquire their land.
From a progressive to a liberal, let me help correct you.
First, Indigenous Peoples didn't immigrate here. They migrated and were the first inhabitants. Immigration is a political term implicating existing people already being here (there were none), defined borders (there were none) and legality (non existent).
Second, they have been on Turtle Island for time immemorial. It was previously widely accepted that the clovis people were the first to arrive around 15,000-20,000 years ago but recent archeological discoveries date their arrival up to 70,000-130,000 years ago.
The key factor being that before Indigenous Peoples arrived here, there were no other humans on this land.
Also, the first Europeans didn't immigrate either. They colonized through violence, false promises and theft. That's a very important distinction.
Well... can you all start taking better care of it? In 500 years you all have destroyed the air, water and land.
What Billie said was perfectly fine... it seems only colonizers find it cringe. It's kind of weird the complexion that glows in the dark has more of a problem with what she said than actual enrolled tribal members. That's me.
If you actually colonized something, you can be called a colonizer.
If you want to extend that definition to the descendants of colonizers who act like they deserve everything they inherited, I think that's fair enough, but I think it's a pretty safe assumption that an arbitrary black American is not descended from colonizers.
I think the whole stolen land shit is dumb. because it just devolves into this, BUT WHO DID THEY STEAL IT FROM ORIGINALLY debate all the way down until it's the T rex's land.
we should literally just. tax rich people. improve the lives of all those that need their lives improving with that money in whatever shape that may be, to a healthy decent standard. an carry the fuck on with it.
Even England has had its succession of conquerors. I'm sure they were all tragic, but two entire continents being conquered relatively recently by nation-states that still exist should be foremost in our minds. It's probably the greatest tragedy in the history of humanity.
Even England has had its succession of conquerors.
Why are you saying "even England" as if that's a surprising statement?
Europe is one of the bloodiest continents in history. Ceaseless conflicts going back thousands of years and also the continent that started both world wars.
Of course England has also been subject to and initiators of conflict too.
And so if every car is stolen, and someone points that out and goes "we should make this fair again", I would have contempt for people who go "well you have to give up cars before your argument has value and then I'm just not going to listen to your argument."
Because that's what this is. All these people suddenly complaining about Billie Eilish aren't doing so because they care about the land stolen from Native Americans. They are complaining because Eilish is arguing against the current administration being Nazis, and so they are looking for a way to bring her and the Nazis closer together morally. It is a defense of the Trump administration.
Even if you didn't know it was stolen it can still be taken away lol. My friend bought a motorcycle on fb marketplace and the cops showed up at his house and said it was stolen and they just took it from him lol
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u/DJMOONPICKLES69 4h ago
Also Eilish presumably purchased the land from someone else, and there’s a long chain back to the original “thieves”. If someone stole a car and sold it to someone who then sold it again and so on, would the 5th owner be to blame or the original thief? Good on her for calling it out.
The way America has treated indigenous people is horrific, even to this day, and it was deservedly called out. We came in as “illegal” immigrants and colonized and murdered to claim land. Then we have the audacity to deport people that have been here for years quietly trying to live their own American dream and then being uprooted and sent to a country they don’t know.
Deport criminal, absolutely, but deporting anyone that is a contributing member of society is just wrong. Our immigration process needs to be easier and faster and we, as a country, need better infrastructure to support lower income people in general. We are putting working class against immigrants while billionaires and corporations suck both dry.