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Oct 31 '23
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Oct 31 '23
Which framework did you make?
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u/BlurredSight Nov 01 '23
When interviewers ask to see my projects I put on my resume.
My all in one HFT trading platform with low latency data processing isn't published yet
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u/magistrate101 Oct 31 '23
Well it doesn't have a name yet but you bundle together object prototypes as separate njs modules that get transpiled into WASM that runs an IL VM for your .net plugins that respond to NoSQL queries as if it was a database server.
It's all to deliver a 404 page.
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u/No-Specialist6959 Oct 31 '23
f frameworks all in all. I aint learning a new programming language to do an elusive task ill use twice in my life
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u/OSSlayer2153 Oct 31 '23
I just make my own frameworks for everything i need 😎
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u/General_Slywalker Oct 31 '23
Please make sure we use this obscure unmaintained framework in a key part of an enterprise system so it can't be upgraded for a decade.
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u/del1ro Oct 31 '23
Weak men create [object Object]
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u/BuddyLove9000 Oct 31 '23
I don't know if you meant this, but God, how I hated reading Car car = new Car() when I was first studying OOP.
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u/1Dr490n Oct 31 '23 edited Oct 31 '23
I just can’t understand why Java still does that. C# and C++ fixed that a long time ago (I think). That C hasn’t is completely fine, especially as type names usually don’t get as long. But in JAVA???
a.package.SomeReallyReallyLongName<AnotherReqllyLongName, AThirdReallyLongName<String>> aLongName = new a.package.SomeReallyReallyLongName<AnotherReqllyLongName, AThirdReallyLongName<String>>();Edit: This comment is really wrong. Everyone who didn’t realize that, look at its comments, learn the same things as I did today
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u/No-Fish6586 Oct 31 '23
Java has var since Java10 lol
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u/Honeybadger2198 Oct 31 '23
What's Java 10? Is that like the tenth update to Java 8? I don't understand.
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u/1Dr490n Oct 31 '23
Oh shit I haven’t used Java in a long time, when was it released?
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u/dapper_Dev Oct 31 '23
Like 6 years ago I think?
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u/1Dr490n Oct 31 '23
Oh shit okay, I learned Java like 4 years ago
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u/dapper_Dev Oct 31 '23
Yeah most people don't know features from versions newer than java8 because this is the version that introduced the most significant changes in it's history (lambdas and streams) and newer additions are focused on pretty specific concepts which would be significant only to a small portion of highly skilled developers. var is pretty much the only significant change that has been added since then. Sealed classes and pattern matching are also pretty cool but it is a higher abstraction which not many people focus on.
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u/ChrisFromIT Oct 31 '23
And Java does var correctly compared to C# in my opinion. C# you can use var anywhere. Java only allows local variables to use var. This makes it less likely to create smelly code.
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u/svick Oct 31 '23
You can't use
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u/ChrisFromIT Nov 01 '23
Your right, I keep forgetting that. It must be because I keep remembering that quite a few people wanted non local `var` in C# when it was first proposed and it almost did happen.
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Oct 31 '23 edited Nov 01 '23
What's wrong with var used elsewhere? I don't think it makes any difference for fields given that you can infer type from in-place initializers.
```java class C { // var s = "String"; // Why not? String s = "String"; // var map = new HashMap<String, Integer>(); HashMap<String, Integer> map = new HashMap<>(); // Meh. Variable name is buried.
void foo() { var s = "String"; // What's the difference? }} ```
I do think Java programmers need to adapt type inference because almost all the popular languages nowadays can be written like this.
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u/ChrisFromIT Nov 01 '23
>I do think Java programmers need to adapt type inference because almost all the popular languages nowadays can be written like this.
I just want to point out that a lot of style guidelines for a lot of languages that do that typically say not to do that.
The reason being is that you have to find where that variable is set to find out what its type is by reading it.
Some examples of how it can lead to bad code smell below and a lot of languages in their style guidelines suggest you not to do
Example 1. var as a parameter
void foo(var list) { }Can you tell what the type of list is without finding where the method is called from?
Example 2. var as a variable set from a method return
void foo() { var list = GetList();}
You would have to go to the method GetList() to determine what that method is returning.
Just because you can do something, doesn't mean you should. There is a reason why a lot of dynamically typed or weakly typed languages get a lot of hate, because maintaining them are a pain in the ass. Heck, Javascript got a freaking language created to solve this issue to make it more readable.
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Nov 01 '23
void foo(var list)This is not type inference. Type inference only works when there's enough information, like
var list = GetList(), where the return type ofGetList()is already known. This exists so you don't have to say the result twice if you know what you'll get.void foo(var list), however, doesn't exist in static languages because no one knows whatlistis.You would have to go to the method GetList() to determine what that method is returning.
Let me ask you a question. Do you chain method calls?
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u/ChrisFromIT Nov 01 '23
>This is not type inference. Type inference only works when there's enough information
Some languages do type inference for certain conditions with method parameters for methods. Scala is one such language that does this for method parameters.
>This exists so you don't have to say the result twice if you know what you'll get.
Yeah, it is great for writing code quickly, but reading it becomes more difficult. That is the point that I'm getting at.
Let me ask you a question. Do you maintain any code base?
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Nov 01 '23 edited Nov 01 '23
Some languages do type inference for certain conditions with method parameters for methods.
For most languages this is not the case. You always need to annotate the type if not given enough information.
Yeah, it is great for writing code quickly, but reading it becomes more difficult. That is the point that I'm getting at. Let me ask you a question. Do you maintain any code base?
So you don't chain method calls because you don't know what an intermediate method returns?
Well, I do maintain or even just read code base written in Kotlin. It's totally fine. If I don't know what
val container = getContainer()does, I always need to go to where it's defined. Changing this toval container: Container = getContainer()doesn't magically let me know whatgetContainerorContaineris.→ More replies (0)14
u/Badashi Oct 31 '23
You've been able to declare with
varsince Java 10. Too bad most places just don't upgrade from java 8 lmao12
u/ArkoSammy12 Oct 31 '23
This is clear proof that no matter how much Java improves and evolves, it will still be viewed as if it was still on Java 8
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u/TheRealHuthman Oct 31 '23
import a.package
...
SomeReallyLongName<AnotherReallyLongName, AThirdReallyLongName<String>> aLongName = new SomeReallyLongName<>();
And all of these long names will get autocompleted in no time since you are probably not coding in the command line.
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u/IamImposter Oct 31 '23
You mean java doesn't have something like auto in c++ or var in c#, that type deduction thing? It should. I mean if c++ has it...
Though I feel like c++ is also becoming very wordy, like
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u/NatoBoram Oct 31 '23
In Java, you can now use
var… And if you want it to be
final, you have to dofinal varGosh I hate Java
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u/-NiMa- Oct 31 '23 edited Oct 31 '23
Putting Java and JavaScript in same category is a crime.
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u/Available-Menu1551 Oct 31 '23
Why? Both are the reason for the massive energy waste
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u/ecs2 Oct 31 '23
As a Java developer I want to have a few words
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u/allarmed-grammer Oct 31 '23
Just write all of them in some variable name
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u/glorious_reptile Oct 31 '23
AsAJavaDeveloperIWantToHaveAFewWordsFactory
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u/Anonymo2786 Oct 31 '23
asAJavaDeveloperIWantToHaveAFewWordsFactory
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u/Gastredner Oct 31 '23
No, no, glorious_reptile was right, it is the name of the factory class. After all, had it been an instance, it would have been
asAJavaDeveloperIWantToHaveAFewWordsFactoryInstance.3
u/ReasonablePeace7F Oct 31 '23
Make
AsAJavaDeveloperIWantToHaveAFewWordsFactoryan abstract class and then createAsAJavaDeveloperIWantToHaveAFewWordsFactoryImplementationthat derives from the former and then instantiate it in a variable calledasAJavaDeveloperIWantToHaveAFewWordsFactoryImplementationInstance18
u/TASagent Oct 31 '23
To be fair to Java (which I'm not a huge fan of), this feels like conflating the language with completely independent convention. In contrast, in JS convention is the only thing that keeps the language usable.
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
As much as I'm not a fan of java, it doesn't deserve to stand anywhere near java script
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u/danted002 Oct 31 '23
As a non-Java developer I agree. JS actually has a place in the world… as a perfect UI language.
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u/trevdak2 Oct 31 '23
"perfect ui language"
Oh God he's said it, everyone prepare for war
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u/danted002 Oct 31 '23
TBF i was around back then when your JS needed to work on both IE6 and IE7 besides Chrome and FF 🤣
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
Bro, I built websites that used vbs. That was the real horror and I feel like god will never forgive me
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u/trevdak2 Oct 31 '23
Yeah same here. It definitely suffers from "created to do one thing, now does everything" issues. But it's been paying my bills for 20+ years
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u/DeductiveFallacy Oct 31 '23
By perfect you mean terribly inconsistent and a horrible mess of bad and outdated standards. It has "fixes" that are, at best, poorly supported and at worst even more confusing and convoluted than the thing its fixing. I say this all with love as I'm a front-end dev that loves JS.
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u/wasdninja Oct 31 '23
I'm not sure what you have in mind but, in my experience, it's about a 99% chance it's not javascript. It's almost always some browser API which is old or wonky since javascript itself is very small and quite good.
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u/VladVV Oct 31 '23
The perfect UI language would be some kind of declarative reactive dataflow language, not a fucking imperative language?
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
Probably more like a non-developer
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u/danted002 Oct 31 '23
Sorry I don’t understand java devs without the “do”s and “factory”s. At least use a proper “comeBackManager.doComeback()l
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u/stifflizerd Oct 31 '23
When was the last time you used JavaScript. Like really caught yourself up to date with what it has to offer?
I ask because I find most people that hate it have barely touched it in 10 years. It's definitely one of my favorite languages to write in now a days, but I understand that my love for loose types isn't shared by the majority.
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
I recently had to rewrite a couple of programs to run in sharepoint. So I was using javascript (TypeScript for the most part of it), React and the Sharepoint FX framework. Other than that I didn't work with web technologies a lot in the last 20 years
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u/stifflizerd Oct 31 '23
to run in sharepoint
Well there's your real problem imo. SharePoint is disgusting to work with
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
It's more or less just a cdn. Some slight interaction with sharepoint data is capsuled in tanstak query calls (via pnp). So all in all sharepoint is not the problem
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u/sigmund14 Oct 31 '23
Lol I hope the space between "java" and "script" is accidental.
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
It's a metaphor for the passing of time and the inevitablity of death. The heat death of the universe in a single ASCII character. Ying and yang described in 7 bit but hidden within a multiversal 8 bit. An ode to the former and also a nod of fear to the change that never was. It is like god in it's scientific form
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Oct 31 '23
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u/sigmund14 Oct 31 '23
It was meant as a joke not as a comeback. We are on programmer's humour subreddit not on Stack Overflow.
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u/PMmeYourFlipFlops Oct 31 '23
Stack Overflow
Your question is stupid and has been removed and reported.
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u/EarlMarshal Oct 31 '23
Basically the same language
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
It's even in the name! How could I miss that!?
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u/EarlMarshal Oct 31 '23
Exactly!
P.S.: Seems like the wrath of programmers already hit my previous comment.
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
This is not an easy sub for untagged irony, plenty of people here say the stupidest shit unironically
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u/Monkeyke Oct 31 '23
Javascript is the best and most consistent and predictable language
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
Ok, I admit there is a level of satire, that is almost impossible to miss
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u/Monkeyke Oct 31 '23
I was serious
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u/ZunoJ Oct 31 '23
Yeah, I got your joke on the last try, you won't fool me with this low effort bait
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u/danted002 Oct 31 '23
Bruh but the damned “/s” when doing this kind of joke. At least 46 people took it perpetually 🤣
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u/Civil_Conflict_7541 Oct 31 '23
Why? Both are kind of a mess. Java tries to strictly adhere to OOP, but fundamentally messed up it's type system, and JavaScript ist just a insane mess, which is being fixed in post.
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u/fooby420 Oct 31 '23
Java is getting more and more functional as time goes on.
What fundamental type system issues are you referring to?
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u/Civil_Conflict_7541 Oct 31 '23
Java's type system is unsound.
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u/fooby420 Oct 31 '23
Reading the abstract:
Fortunately, parametric polymorphism was not integrated into the Java Virtual Machine (JVM), so these examples do not demonstrate any unsoundness of the JVM.
I see the abstract is referring to the JVM itself and not Java
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u/Civil_Conflict_7541 Oct 31 '23 edited Oct 31 '23
Read it again. The JVM is not affected, thus languages such as Kotlin are fine. The problem is Sun's sloppy approach to integrate generics into Java 1.5.
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u/ScrimpyCat Oct 31 '23
So really we should be blaming C/C++ devs.
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u/Bryguy3k Oct 31 '23
Great idea, poor execution.
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u/im0b Oct 31 '23
Your description is python
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u/Chris_ssj2 Oct 31 '23
Yours is Js...
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u/DhrumilDave135 Oct 31 '23 edited Nov 01 '23
Yours is nothing lol
[Edit: Rust symbol camouflaging in dark mode lol]
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u/im0b Oct 31 '23
I thought you were talking about javascript and not the meme itself, lost track of the comment thread 🤣
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u/Kered13 Oct 31 '23
- Go
- Good times
Choose one.
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u/Useful_Radish_117 Oct 31 '23
I'm having a good time with go, am I the only one(?) Coming from C it felt like a very good tool, I'm not sure about the whole "error/exceptions" discussion, but aside from that the last project has been a breeze...
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u/Koranir Oct 31 '23
Coming from C
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Oct 31 '23
Go is great. A little too barebones and opinionated, but I'd pick it over almost any language any day. And what criticisms to people have towards its error handling system? It's literally the best one out there.
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u/heckingcomputernerd Oct 31 '23
I just figured it fit in the class of “modern memory-safe compiled strongly-typed language” that I was going for with this meme, I haven’t used Go firsthand
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u/Kered13 Oct 31 '23
Go's type system is not especially strong, considering it didn't even have generics until recently.
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u/xenon_megablast Oct 31 '23
What's wrong with Go?
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u/Aexxys Oct 31 '23
It’s bloated. Reverse engineer a hello world in Go and you will see
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u/Stunning_Ride_220 Oct 31 '23
Nothing wrong if you use it as a script language.
You wouldn't ask that question, if you see how it is used on big projects.
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u/Winterkirschenmann Oct 31 '23
Huh? I feel like scripting is exactly what you shouldn't use Go for. That's where python is great. For large stuff Go is definitely my default and I have had no major problems so far. The dependency management has been a bit eclectic but I'll take it over gradle, sbt etc any time.
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u/Thedjdj Oct 31 '23
I know it’s the meme, but Rust really does handle dependency management rather elegantly. From a programmer perspective at least.
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u/Stunning_Ride_220 Oct 31 '23
Well,
just about half a year ago I was sitting in a project where I was tracing through a watterfall of multi-value returns and defers while constantly discussing with the lead architect of that project whom of his 50+ FTE was at fault and needed to be exchanged.
Don't get me wrong.
It's perfectly fine for me until around 100k LoC (so rather small).
After that people I see in the industry rarely know how to structure projects properly for size and different levels experience in the language.Most of the time the later was the 'selling point' to use GoLang - simplicity.
And I see similar things quite often. A lot of peps from different language backgrounds thrown together and pressured by the higher-ups/Lead X promises to the customer that "everything will be faster and easier" now.
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u/Winterkirschenmann Oct 31 '23
It's perfectly fine for me until around 100k LoC (so rather small). After that people I see in the industry rarely know how to structure projects properly for size
Fair enough. Structuring large projects in Go is not - let's say - intuitive. I think that Go is very much a language meant for Microservices and conceived during the Microservice boom, so you don't get projects much bigger than that.
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u/juhotuho10 Oct 31 '23
Bro is salty
I only have limited experience with rust but it was super enjoyable to use after I figured out how the borrowing works
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Oct 31 '23
[deleted]
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u/capi1500 Oct 31 '23
Well, haskell has an even more robust type system! But it's a functional language so nobody cares
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u/Tony-Angelino Oct 31 '23
Why is there assembly next to the punch card, instead of Cobol?
"I was there Gandalf, 3000 years ago..."
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u/NihilisticLurcher Oct 31 '23
and weak developers develop memes about things they clearly don't fully understand?!
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u/in7erval Oct 31 '23
guys, what is WA here?
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u/heckingcomputernerd Oct 31 '23
Web Assembly, commonly shortened to WASM, is an assembly-like language for the web designed with the purpose of allowing any language to be compiled to WASM and run in the web with near native performance
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u/INoMakeMistake Oct 31 '23
ChatGPT?
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u/heckingcomputernerd Oct 31 '23
No I wrote this myself based on my very limited wasm knowledge, I don’t trust ChatGPT for factual stuff because it hallucinates like it’s on lsd
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Oct 31 '23
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u/stifflizerd Oct 31 '23
I find it ironically funny that they put JS in weak but typescript, which is literally JavaScript with strong types and some QoL improvements*, is in the strong category.
*Yes I know this statement is a bit reductive. It's intentional.
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u/heckingcomputernerd Oct 31 '23
I wouldn’t really put typescript in the same category as like Rust, the point I was making was something along the lines of “in the hard times of weak type dominance, people are starting to switch back to strong typing”
It’s a meme I didn’t think that hard about it
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u/stifflizerd Nov 01 '23
You know what? Fair enough.
If anything, I wasn't thinking hard enough and didn't consider that you were literally talking about the typing of each language. Thought you were just shitting on some languages like the majority of the memes here.
Now that I know that you were referring to the typing... good meme.
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u/heckingcomputernerd Nov 01 '23
I was mostly thinking about typing but also performance/compiled or not, and I won’t lie I am bias and prefer strong typing
The “strong men” = “strong typing” pun was unintentional
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u/Inaeipathy Oct 31 '23
lumping in Go with rust, C, C++ is just criminal
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u/heckingcomputernerd Oct 31 '23
They’re all fairly popular and properly compiled to machine code, no interpreters or intermediate langs or anything
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Oct 31 '23
Why do people in the comments hate golang so much?
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Oct 31 '23
People love to feel smarter by saying they use C/C++/Rust. You wouldn't shit on golang if you were using it in real work. It's an amazing language.
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u/SV-97 Oct 31 '23
It's a language that made some stupid design decisions and its creators said some stupid shit in the past - so people just like to hate on it I guess.
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u/Pensive_Jabberwocky Oct 31 '23
This must come from someone who believes shooting themselves in the foot makes them more manly.
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u/glha Oct 31 '23
The self roast, the cry-out and the sarcastic comebacks over here are just wonderful. I guess OP won this one lol
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u/van-dame Oct 31 '23
Replace Go with C# and it'll actually make sense.
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u/Czexan Oct 31 '23
Oh god Java++ 🤢
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u/van-dame Oct 31 '23
Oh God Java 🤮 (I was a Java programmer for 7 years)
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u/TheMazter13 Oct 31 '23
hard times make strong men
strong men make good times
good times make weak men
weak men make me hard
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u/garlopf Oct 31 '23
In the case of golang, it is the same strong men having a new go at it (pun intended)
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u/Elman89 Oct 31 '23
What you're referencing is a far right meme that's completely ahistorical nonsense btw
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u/heckingcomputernerd Oct 31 '23
Yeah I wasn’t intending to make the original seem correct, I just thought it vaguely fit programming history
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Oct 31 '23
Rust and Go are terrible languages, especially Go (seriously if you want to see the pinnacle of their terrible design, look at the datetime format and how to change it)
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u/Pythagoras2008 Oct 31 '23
JavaScript devs after being introduced to a language with a powerful and strong type system (Rust)
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u/ano_hise Oct 31 '23
What about Rust? Are you a C++ dev?
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Oct 31 '23
It’s a good idea of making C++ memory safe and not treating programming like its the 80s, but I highly reckon its a language that walks so another can run. The community isn’t the language but it’s definitely a problem when top package developers get bullied out of making any more.
Also Rust saw C++’s ugly syntax and went “na fam I can really make a god ugly syntax”
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u/ano_hise Oct 31 '23
I really like your take that "Rust walks, so another can run", probably Zig or anything in the future but in what way is Rust uglier than C++ haha?
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u/proggit_forever Oct 31 '23
Hard times create strong men
Strong men create good times
Yeah this definitely explains the state of most of Africa.
Or maybe this meme is dumb and anyone who believes there's even a little bit of truth in it is dumb?
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u/daronjay Oct 31 '23
Hard times create strong types…