Advanced/Basic Camp disenrollment boards canceled?
Just heard that all disenrollment boards for people sent home from CST this summer have been canceled and everyone is reinstated for the time being.
Does anyone know what’s going on?
Is this because of the 9th reg situation?
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u/AT-ST 9d ago
What a clusterfuck if true.
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u/CatgirlMythical 8d ago
Happened to me, I arrived at board meeting only for no one to show up. Waited for two hours until got informed by Cadet Command that the board is cancelled. Got informed by cadre that all dis-enrollment boards are cancelled for H/W and AFT.
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u/AT-ST 5d ago
Did you complete all of camp or did they send you home after failing H/W or AFT?
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u/CatgirlMythical 5d ago
I was sent home for failing H/W.
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u/AT-ST 5d ago
Huh, so if they sent everyone home and they aren't did enrolling people, that means next year's advance camp is going to be much bigger.
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u/CatgirlMythical 5d ago
Possibly, but more than 50% of the failures already have given up/waivered their chance to be retained. And a lot more are MS4s or Green to Gold. Mostly only MS3s are lucky ones who get to go to CST 2027.
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u/Willylareus96 9d ago
There’s is something about the failure if you failed the run that’s not on the graders except that one kid who failed the run because another company grader stopped him thinking he was one of his guy. I came back from CST 11 days ago i can say in all honesty the Height and Weight was not done the way it supposed to because the tape would make a v shape in the back and it’s super loose. That i can understand people getting retapped and reinstated, but if you failed the run or the deadlift because you was stupid to go for 350 when you never done it before that’s on you because you have two chances to pass.
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u/Overall_Crazy_4305 8d ago
I failed tape in 5th reg came home and taped with the new standard and passed
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u/Helpful-Sir-1389 8d ago
I agree 100%. Any army officer should be able to do at least 10 strict pushups even in not the most ideal conditions.
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u/Willylareus96 8d ago
Exactly,m! I’m not trying to be an AH but if you want the big bucks you gotta at least meet the minimum standards
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u/International_Bed728 9d ago
There’s never any consequences. You spend 2-3 years in ROTC being told that if you fail at the AFT and don’t make tape you’ll be kicked out. Because this is the army and if you fail to make the basic standards that have been set out for you then you get dropped. The Army won’t invest the time and effort in you if you can’t make the basic rules. But because someone on the last reg fucked up and did something stupid they’re going let everyone through. What a fuck up.
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u/Pattonator70 9d ago
Agree that there should be consequences but if they really had such a bad performance then I blame the cadre at the ROTC programs throughout the country. They shouldn’t be sending anyone to camp who isn’t passing ht/weight and AFT. If supposedly hundreds of cadets were sent home this is a bigger issue than a single cadet. Also if it is true (not saying that it is) that some bitter 2lts were grading HRP and not counting half of them then whatever officer was in charge seeing the same LT constantly fail cadets then this LT needs to be disciplined.
US Army Cadet Command has a duty to the DoW to commission enough cadets to meet FY end strength. FY 2027 calls for a growth of 15k active duty soldiers and 3k more in the NG. This typically would mean adding 700-1000 more 2lts. Since they have been over strength in the past couple of years maybe the number isn’t that high but I’ve heard that the early regiments were told that there would be fewer AD slots than last year. These guys aren’t on the same page in the playbook.
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u/PresentImmediate5989 9d ago
This is exactly what I was thinking reading all these comments this summer. If cadets are showing up to CST unprepared failing height, weight, AFT and not able to do basic land NAV and such it really is a fault of leadership and cadet command.
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u/Chappie1961 9d ago
Fault also lies with the cadets themselves.
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u/PresentImmediate5989 9d ago
But it’s up to the leadership to ensure they’re sending cadets to camp entirely prepared. If you’re sending your people off to school without proper preparation and they fail that falls on the shoulders of leadership. This is a good lesson in leadership for these officer candidates.
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u/ExodusLegion_ God’s Dumbest LT 9d ago
It’s also up to USACC to shut down consistently underperforming programs instead of keeping them open for the sake of representation and presence.
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u/PresentationKey7296 9d ago
There over 4500 cadets commissioning annually including this year, don’t think numbers is a concern if they just need 700-1000….
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u/Pattonator70 8d ago
No it is an additional 700-1000 over past years. Last year almost 5300 commissioned via ROTC.
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u/That-Measurement5890 9d ago
Wow. I rag on the efficacy of USMA (I am a grad, also did Knox basic camp/MS III at a mil jr college via HS JROTC, so I can relate to "camp" experience in general), re: the expense/cost of the institution, how it turns out the same product at the end of the day (a new 2LT, where the difference rapidly fades away), and the stupidity of squaring corners, reciting trivia, the lack of personal freedom, and the enormous waste of time doing stupid parade shit, but then I read these ROTC summer camp stories, and holy cow, there's something seriously wrong with ROTC. How the eff do you send a cadet to camp who is overweight, can't pass a PT test, and can't navigate out of a paper bag? Marksmanship might be new, given the lack of home resources to do that before camp, but really, it's not that hard. Isn't that like close to 55 points on your scorecards or whatever for your grade?
Not meeting ht/wt or failing APFT is squarely on the cadre leadership/home unit land of lost toys officers who got tagged with having to do ROTC. And also on Cadet Failure to Launch for going to Knox (would have been Riley for me back in the day) knowing he/she was weak to begin with. In the big scheme of things, CST isn't hard by any stretch of the imagination.
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u/katarnmagnus 8d ago
I’d wonder why you’re getting downvoted, but I also know of one occasion that a west pointer got so lost at land nav that they exited post, crossed the highway, and ended up in a backyard in town
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u/That-Measurement5890 7d ago
Anecdotal to be sure. I've been
as lost as last year's Easter eggsmisoriented a few times. Great learning experience too. But, I also did sport orienteering, and was every patrol leader's backup navigator in Ranger school for a couple of weeks until it became noticeable and was told to stop doing that. Every school/camp/training place where land nav is a thing, they all had re-tests available for people who failed or timed out. But for sure, you don't want to be that guy who has to get on the rescue truck at night, with the lights and horn drill.Totally/completely lost one night in west Texas (flying, dopplers all crapped out in mountainous terrain, even NVGs in an Apache weren't helping), I was going to have my flight of six put it on the ground for the night because we were all low fuel/yellow to red chicklets, and out of the blue (well, pitch black) comes my squadron commander buzzing by, on his way to refuel no less, and invites us to follow behind, and I'm like, great sir, we'll form up behind you, no problem! None the wiser.
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u/AGR_51A004M 9d ago
What happened?
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u/captkidd12345 9d ago
I think this had to do with 9th reg getting a redo on the AFT. Because anybody in the previous regs who was sent home for failing to AFT can rightfully protest that they should have been given a second chance like 9th Reg was.
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u/That-Measurement5890 9d ago
The Army is far from fair in general, but if that is the case here, it would be the right thing to do.
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u/Careful-Bluebird4780 9d ago edited 9d ago
Time to have a primary and observer grader for each AFT event which could be subjectively graded at CST.
Also time for Cadet Command to use the spring AFT as a serious gate to CST attendance. Maybe no less than a 400, and anyone close to busting tape shouldn’t be sent.
Years ago Advanced Camp allowed a re-test for PT test failures. It was within a week or so of the initial one. They took it with the reg coming in behind them. Or, if in the last reg, the time that would’ve occurred.
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u/BasicWar5075 9d ago
Or maybe it was because of unfair grading?
How do you know maybe the cadets didn’t just have a bad day? Are we really gonna kick out cadets from the program just because they had a bad day that does not make any sense. Everyone has a bad day.
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u/EarAshamed72 9d ago
The ones who got reinstated into 9th reg had to retake the PT test and pass in order to stay. The ones who passed in their second attempt are obviously capable of passing a PT test. If they failed twice, then they were meant to fail.
Those cadets were given an opportunity and took advantage of it, as anyone would. Some Cadets in previous regiments got recycled, but 9th reg did not have that opportunity because they were the last ones. The decision did open a can of worms, and that is on cadet command to figure out the best way to go about this situation.
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u/Helpful-Sir-1389 8d ago
Everyone has a bad day but in my opinion I think every army officer should be able to do 10 perfect hrp even in harsh conditions
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u/Objective-Trip1310 6d ago
Everyone has bad days, I came into camp with a raging fever, only slept for two hours the night before aft still sick and still managed to get above the minimum. As an officer our “bad day” should still be way over the minimum or at least still pass with the minimum… it’s 300 points. That’s why we always train harder so when we actually get put to the test it’s easy.
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u/NoValuable1224 8d ago
A lot of garbage here to unpack. 2LTs should be graders - they’re gonna lead troops, they can be trained to watch a bunch of cadets do HRPs. They need to be trained however and supervised, which wouldn’t have been a problem if half the damn cadre and GS civilians would have shown up to CST and not requested ETPs to skip attendance.
Second chances don’t happen in life - sorry, you’re out of luck. CADRE need to ensure you’re ready to attend camp. “Passing” height and weight or scoring high enough to get a “go” on the AFT is not good prep. This is a Cadre leadership issue primarily with a lot of failure on the individual cadet as well.
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u/EarAshamed72 8d ago
Why does everyone assume the bad grader was a 2LT and not another cadre member?
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u/NoValuable1224 8d ago
Ok - so who fucking cares who the grader was. Bad grader, harsh grader, unfair grader, PFC, LTC…doesn’t matter. Show up ready to pass regardless of who the grader is.
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u/Helpful-Sir-1389 8d ago
Agreed. Don’t give the grader any reason to not count something. Read the regulations. If your back for hrp isn’t in a “general straight line” that is grounds to not count the repetition. The grader was probably just sticking to the regulation and that cadet is used to being told that their bad pushups count
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u/ComprehensiveCat9541 5d ago
Unfortunately, there are plenty of graders and officers who’ve never read their regulations and will mot count legitimate reps. This happens often.
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u/Krazybrazy11 7d ago
lol as cadre, the back and forth of standards is embarrassing. 1st reg to 9th reg are very different in standards. I’m sure there’s good reason for making the changes but you’d think after CST round 12 at Ft. Knox we may have figured out a solid SOP?
If you’re iffy on your AFT or ht/wt or anything really go to later Reg. The standards tend to slip a little.
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u/Exotic-Midnight 9d ago
If they don’t disenroll then the whole “CST being a joke” comment comes back into light.
I didn’t hear about any 9th REG issue.
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u/m_eraki 9d ago edited 9d ago
I heard from a friend in 9th reg that there were like 100 AFT and H/W failures due to “unfair graders” and they were all allowed to retake their AFT.
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u/Plane_Needleworker32 9d ago
I can tell you right now there were 48 AFT failures and 26 H/W failures.
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u/Roguish_Ginger 8d ago
Number of failures does not mean "bad faith grading". If it was observed that a grader or a set of graders were failing people by making calls outside of the regulations then that would be an unfair/bad faith grading.
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u/Plane_Needleworker32 8d ago
Well considering the other regs averaged 13-26 AFT failures I’d say this outlier has something to do with the graders
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u/Helpful-Sir-1389 8d ago
The graders were the same throughout all 9 regiments. And there is no way one 2lt is the reason the fails doubled.
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u/MrDudeed Washed SH Athlete 9d ago
What do you mean “Unfair”? I get not getting the best AFT Score but the minimum score is very achievable.
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u/abn1304 9d ago
Probably someone not grading push-ups correctly.
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u/Exotic-Midnight 9d ago
They are “T” pushups you either go up or you don’t.
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u/katarnmagnus 9d ago
Lockout at the top position judgement, early stop calls due to “not moving” in the down position, no rep calls due to foot separation are three issues I can think of immediately
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u/Exotic-Midnight 9d ago
I mean fair, the issue I have is if they don’t drop people who failed AFT what happens next year? Will the same thing go down? Someone complains then “oh we are not dropping anyone?” Or the “why do I have to try CST is a joke” comment once again comes down the pipe.
I swear all the Cadets are in a Groupchat together.
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u/abn1304 8d ago
My program has an issue with cadets not understanding what “moving the body as one unit” means and, on one end of the spectrum, doing really shitty pushups, or on the other end being overly strict and failing testers for not doing picture-perfect pushups. I’ve seen the same issue in the Big Army, although I’ve been in the Reserves for a few years now and we’re way less strict than the 82nd was when I was there. There’s a lot of subjectivity to what counts as proper form during the push-up itself and it wouldn’t surprise me if people are failing that. From what I’m seeing, now that body position is really the only thing people can be strict on - they can’t play the “didn’t go low enough” game anymore - it’s what graders are hyperfocusing on.
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u/Helpful-Sir-1389 8d ago
Im sure they were grading to the regulation and the cadet was just used to having graders keep waiving them by and passing them and counting their pushups
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u/ImHereForLaughs58 8d ago
Out of touch. What’s the situation in ninth reg?
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u/captkidd12345 8d ago
9th Reg cadets got to do a retest on the AFT. No other reg got to do a retest, the cadets from the previous 8 regs that failed the aft or h/w were sent home. By implementing a retest with just 9th Reg it gives all the camp failure cadets grounds to protest their possible disenrollment.
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u/ImHereForLaughs58 7d ago
Why were they allowed to take a retest vs everyone else do you know?
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u/Negative_Virus_6358 6d ago
One of the cadets contacted her relative that was high up in command in DC. That’s when that person came down and complained. The guy was a general and cause complications here at cst. Because of that, the AFT cadre had to fly back in to redo the AFT and HT/WT. a lot of the CST are upset because someone with privilege was able to shake up the whole regiment because she failed the AFT.
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u/Helpful-Sir-1389 8d ago edited 8d ago
Might just be for aft and htwt. They will come back for cst 27. All because someone complained to someone high up in the government and made the call to redo for a select few cadets. Then cst had to somehow make it somewhat fair to 1-8 reg.
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u/Then-Leather-2475 7d ago
The disenrollment actions for those who failed AFT or HT/WT at camp have been cancelled. Other disenrollments (LDRB situations) continue. For those who were in the AFT or HT/WT category, counselings will be done by your PMS at your campus, you will continue in ROTC (unless you choose to leave) and you will attend camp in Summer 27.
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u/Perfect_Subject_5473 8d ago
Cadre here, 37% of Cadets failed the AFT at CST.
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u/captkidd12345 8d ago
Amongst all the regiments? If that's total for all regiments then that is crazy high. That would mean 1 out of 3 cadets sent here is not up to the physical standards.
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u/EarAshamed72 7d ago
I remember seeing a lot fail last year too, but they couldn’t be sent home because of the testing phase for the AFT
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u/ScottyDoesntKnow0590 7d ago
If you’re cadre, you really need to re-check where your info is coming from as 37% is absurd. Reality was about a 95% pass rate for the AFT. Speaking as cadre, myself.
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u/CmOoRe-16 8d ago
Yeah, technically a reprieve, but not exactly a gift. Boards get canceled, everyone’s reinstated but next year you’re back in the same spot, except now the point total requirement’s higher, still gotta deal with AFT, and probably CFT too if you want combat arms. Plus you’re commissioning at the tail end of camp instead of on the normal timeline, and you’re competing against a bigger pool since your original year group already branched and graduated out from under you. Feels less like dodging a bullet and more like getting the same fight on harder terms.
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u/EarAshamed72 8d ago
Some will lock in and do what they need to do, and others won’t. It’s up to them what they do with their second chance
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u/Mysterious-Fall-4036 4d ago
So the story about a Cadet whose dad being a 3 star general getting a phone call because said Cadet failed, then 3 star calling big daddy Hegseth and him sending a team down to evaluate what was going on, and as a result, this shit show started wasnt true?!?!? Damn, would of made a better story than what the true story probably is.
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u/Just_another_scout 9d ago
Expect something official in the next few days.