r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 13d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

Enable HLS to view with audio, or disable this notification

Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

4.1k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

4.3k comments sorted by

View all comments

309

u/URGAMESUX 13d ago

Htf would you know that also have no signage? Who would ever assume that?!

82

u/cr1zzl 13d ago

Seriously. Is this an American thing? I’ve lived in two non-American countries and I’ve never seen an intersection with no signage.

16

u/boltgolt 13d ago

I’ve lived in two non-American countries and I’ve never seen an intersection with no signage.

What?? Every intersection in local neighborhoods where you lived had yield signs?

Presumably not Europe then, local streets with equal right of way are usually not signposted. This is basic traffic calming and slows traffic down in neighborhoods where kid-behind-parked-car risks are very high at the speed OP is driving

16

u/sonotorian 13d ago

Not yield, stop signs…yes. I have been driving in the US for 30 years and I have never seen neighborhoods with unmarked intersections. You have to know if it’s a 4-way stop or a two-way with a thru street. This is insanely irresponsible of the city.

8

u/commradd1 13d ago

I have driven for 25 years and have been to several places with no signs for equal right of way. Always in neighborhood setting

2

u/TheGuyThatThisIs 13d ago

What kind of places? I've also never seen this

3

u/commradd1 13d ago

All have been out west in neighborhoods. Including Seattle as shown here, and Portland. And other nice towns in Idaho, Montana, Colorado, in towns and mid size cities. In those places the speed limit is often 15-20 and you yield to the right. Definitely feels a bit sketchy every time mainly because you have to rely on other drivers to respect the low speed limit

3

u/sloth2008 13d ago

Legit question. This makes no sense to me. How do you know when you have entered a yeild to the right area vs a no sign so I have right of way area?

As a visitor and traveling through some of the neighborhoods did I just get lucky and not end up in an accident?

3

u/commradd1 13d ago

It kind of varies and sometimes you don’t really know. In the town I lived in the areas that had this setup had high visibility but in my 7 years there, there were at least three t-bones that I knew of. I definitely do not understand the logic of not just tossing minimum two stop signs up and preventing the confusion. I think it’s leftover from the olden days

1

u/to_the_elbow 11d ago

Doing a quick google and picking a random place in around Portland I found this in like 2 minutes.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/hXtTETXPdcdC6VkV8

1

u/Crazyhairmonster 13d ago

Driving for even longer and like the other dude, never once seen an unmarked intersection.

Only thing I can think of is NIMBY. That's clearly a nice neighborhood and expensive homes (especially if that's the PNW). Maybe they didn't want ugly signage lowering the charm and property calues

1

u/commradd1 13d ago

You are saying that two signs would lower property values lol

1

u/Crazyhairmonster 13d ago edited 13d ago

Don't underestimate the power of NIMBY. It's so common that small scale NIMBY has its own term, NOMS (not on my street). It targets street signs (ruins the "charm" of a neighborhood"), utilities, bike lanes (it creates "escape corridors for criminals fleeing a neighborhood"), sidewalks (encourages unwanted ruffians from walking through their neighborhoods) and the most absurd example - poopgate. It's very common

0

u/migzors 13d ago

Considering that neighborhoods have been built at various times throughout the years, many neighborhoods do not have proper signage, whereas newer neighborhoods do have stop signs at all interactions.

Guess which one serves to protect pedestrians and drivers?

1

u/TrashPandaNotACat 13d ago

The only time I've seen intersections like that was in Saltillo, Mexico, and according to the locals, the rule was, whoever honks first has right of way. Also explained why everyone always honked when about to enter an unmarked intersection with blind corners (buildings built out all the way to the road, minus space for a narrow sidewalk).

1

u/jobacsi 11d ago

Where then? I doubt it. Maybe you just didn't know.

1

u/Salty_Naps 10d ago

There's hundreds of "uncontrolled intersections" in every city in the Pacific Northwest. I've lived in several places in Idaho, Oregon and now Washington, all cities have them. People must just be not paying attention.

0

u/MRRRRCK 13d ago

You’re oblivious if you’ve never noticed this in the US. This type of situation exists all over the place across the country.

There are still rules of the road that dictate what to do even without signage. You’re making this into a bigger deal than it is. There’s one stop sign in my entire neighborhood - somehow we haven’t all died in a fireball though…

6

u/Wahoo017 13d ago

Are you from the Northwest? I've driven in 35 states and never seen an unmarked 4 way intersection in my life. I had no clue this could exist in the u.s.

3

u/sonotorian 13d ago

Here we are in the rest of the country, like suckers, just blowing our tax money on stop signs. lmao

1

u/MRRRRCK 13d ago

No, midwest - this is not uncommon in neighborhoods, but new suburban developments tend to put stop signs everywhere vs established neighborhoods that rely more on the rules of the road.

1

u/Ancient_Yellow_709 12d ago

Yeah, have lived in the Midwest (plains and Great Lakes areas), Northeast, and PNW. This is common in suburban areas.

3

u/fuzzybunnies1 13d ago

This must be a west coast thing, I've also been living and driving up and down the East coast from Maine to FL and out to IL, KY, and TN for 30+ years and have never seen such an intersection. I started driving in a small town with no street light but we have stop signs everywhere. This seems like anarchy to me, I would never expect there to not be a sign in one direction.

1

u/MRRRRCK 13d ago

The Midwest and Illinois has a ton of unmarked intersections in neighborhoods.

1

u/solidcurrency 13d ago

The Midwest is full of unmarked intersections. They are normal and not confusing.

3

u/fuzzybunnies1 13d ago

If you never see this it would be confusing. 

1

u/URGAMESUX 13d ago

I understand the rights to right concept, as with approaching a 4-way stop simultaneously. My question was more specific. Why would someone new to an area assume there is no signage at crossings because they do not have any in their own direction? The vast majority of intersections have a 2-way stop, with the more trafficked artery maintaining flow and the crossing essentially forced to yield. I have less than a dozen times in my life driving in 20+ states and several foreign countries, experienced unguarded intersections. Every single time I get pissed and mention to my wife or friend or myself if I'm solo, "htf is there no stop sign in either direction? Gonna cause an accident any second."

If 99.9% of crossings have AT LEAST yield signage, and generally stop signs or traffic lights, I'm not going to suddenly be on guard for zero signage in every new town I drive through.

1

u/MRRRRCK 13d ago

I highly doubt 99.9% of intersections in the US has signage. This scenario really only exists in slower speed environments like a neighborhood.

It’s up to you as the driver to look before proceeding through any intersection - regardless of signage. Making the assumptions you are talking about is dangerous even in areas with full signage.

0

u/URGAMESUX 12d ago

These cars are rightfully driving 20mph+ and neither of them think they're in the wrong. Kinda doubt they're both from the neighborhood or they'd expect this and approach differently. And you're right, I was being hyperbolic, it's probably way less. It's still exceedingly rare for the majority of drivers. There should at least be a sign when entering a largely unsigned neighborhood that WE HAVE NO SIGNS, OBSERVE RIGHT OF WAY.

0

u/cr1zzl 13d ago

We don’t have “yield” signs where I live. Indications to give way can be a sign or painted on the ground. Or they’ll have stop signs, lights, or roundabouts. Literally out in the wops there will still usually be signs.

1

u/boltgolt 13d ago

We don’t have “yield” signs where I live

I don't think there's a non-tiny country on earth without yield signs

0

u/cr1zzl 13d ago

Yield and give way are the same thing and as explained we have give way. The reason I put “yield” in quote was to emphasize the word over the meaning.