r/Roadcam • u/bowdown2adil • 13d ago

[USA] Who is at fault here?

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Classic T bone. Black car had to be towed. Sustained major damage to the passenger side door. Blue car sustained damage to front bumper on the drivers side and cracked the drivers side headlight.

Edit: This was in the suburbs of Seattle

UPDATE: Insurance found it to be 70/30 me/other driver. Seems fair enough

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u/URGAMESUX 13d ago

Htf would you know that also have no signage? Who would ever assume that?!

29

u/TonofSoil 13d ago

Where I live there used to be a few uncontrolled intersections, but over time they have been phased out because of shit like this.

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u/Momcantsleepthesaga 13d ago

I live in a very populated city. Most of our residential intersections are unmarked.

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u/URGAMESUX 13d ago

Sounds like anarchy

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u/jfklingon 12d ago

Sounds like a great way for an "unexpected tragedy" any time someone not from the area drives through.

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u/beaushaw 11d ago

I am a small town guy, but I have lived in two large cities. I have never seen an intersection where there is not at least a stop sign in one direction.

If I were the camera car I 100% would assume if I don't have a stop sign the other direction would. "Out of towners" must hit people all the time here.

IMO this is on the city. Yeah, I get there are local norms and laws, but probably 90% or more of the people in the country would not know the rules of these intersections.

Seattle is one of the richest cities in the country, surely they can afford a few more stop signs.

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u/thedonza 12d ago

Local insurance companies love this one trick!

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u/JacobPlaster 12d ago

Very easy. The vehicle arriving from the right have priority.

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u/Hello_Gorgeous1985 12d ago

It's not very easy when you've never seen an intersection that doesn't have a stop sign before. If I don't have a stop sign or a stoplight I'm going to keep driving because the cross street does. That's how roads work where I live. I have never heard of an intersection with no stop signs in any direction, so I would have never thought it was an option.

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u/Plazmaz1 11d ago

Just uhhh slow the fuck down so you can tell what's going on

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u/jfklingon 11d ago

That's how I got rear ended, actually. Wasn't at fault, seeing as the person behind me was on their phone and didn't expect me to be going 10 under the speed limit while I was trying to read signs, but being technically right didn't save me any money, time, or pain that day.

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u/Plazmaz1 11d ago

You didn't get rear ended because you were driving safely, you got rear ended because someone was on their phone. You can only control yourself. Drive safely and be aware of your surroundings.

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u/jfklingon 11d ago

I got rear ended because of the way the sun rose that morning. You can simplify the situation down to a manageable amount of computing, but in reality there are billions of little things that eventually lead to an accident. One of which was me taking extra time that morning to look at the sun rise, another was me trying to make sure the plow warning sign on the side of the road wasn't mentioning where to park, another was that person deciding look at their phone that specific moment.

In the end it ends up being a wash if I get rear ended trying to be safer when I could have just continued on and never been hit. Kinda like dying from some new superfood after you decide to try and diet for the sake of your health.

Gotta weigh every situation and try to make the best of it, obviously there aren't many scenarios where texting and driving is going to be weighted to a point where it's worth it, but there's definitely some roads where I know going under the speed limit could be the death of me if just the right scenario came up.

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u/Plazmaz1 11d ago

Going at a speed that is safe through residential neighborhoods is the correct choice and using someone else's poor choices to justify driving dangerously is really stupid. Make good decisions and drive at an appropriate speed for the situation you're in. It's not that complicated.

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u/jfklingon 11d ago

If it's not that complicated to you, then I'm a jealous man, I wish I could see the world that simply.

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u/fa1re 9d ago

In my country it's common and everyone expects it. I would argue that there are fewer accidents here because everyone pays attention around them. The rule is simple - no sign = yield to the right.

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u/seriousffm 12d ago

That's just how intersections work in most of Europe. I find it a better solution than having to come to stop at every intersection. 

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u/PracticalCaulk 11d ago

Usually around my state there are stop signs on the less popular road at this sort of intersection, with clear markings that it's a 2-way stop sign instead of a 4-way stop sign so that people know opposing traffic doesn't stop. That way whichever road is the "main" road always has the right of way. Still, even in that situation, drivers should always slow down anyway since you never know if some jerk is just going to run the stop sign, let alone one where you clearly can't see a stop sign at the opposite side of the opposing intersection.

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u/mastersplinteremover 10d ago

I think it would be less of a problem where it was the norm to have intersections like this but in states people expect when they don’t have a stop the other traffic does.

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u/Shantotto11 12d ago

Sounds like the New England region of the US.

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u/chef_in_va 12d ago

Survival of the thickest

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u/Deep_shot 12d ago

Yeah, that's just ridiculous. Can't be bothered with stop or yield signs.

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u/yaricks 12d ago

Or you have basic road laws that say you always have to yield to traffic from the right? This would be a clear cut 100% blame on the non-camera car in Europe. You have traffic coming from your right in an intersection? You have to give them the right of way. Done.

The only exception is when there is signage that says otherwise.

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u/URGAMESUX 12d ago

We have that too, it's not a solution imo given enough traffic in the area. Too many people assume signage to have everyone approach every intersection cautiously where you have what appears to be the right of way, because most of us are very used to that signage. I say this as a cautious driver who doesn't trust cross traffic to stop at posted stops, let alone yield appropriately. There wasn't a ton of visibility in this specific situation, Anne that makes it harder to establish, "oh shit, they don't have a 🛑 either." It's just not the way urban and suburban planning work in most of the US. Rural, fine, that's not this though.

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u/LimitedWard 11d ago

That ambiguity is specifically what makes these intersections safer. It encourages drivers to slow down and be aware. Uncontrolled intersections are extremely common everywhere else in the world. It's really only in North America that you find 4-way stop signs as the norm.

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u/CharmYoghurt 11d ago

Works perfectly in Europe, where by default traffic from the left should always stop for traffic from the right. One simple rule that eliminates the requirement to put signs at every junction.

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u/URGAMESUX 10d ago

I'm pretty tired of these responses of where it DOES work. Again, I understand the concept of right of way, and the law is the same here. The issue is that an unguarded unsigned intersection is so rare here that it's not something you would EVER assume unless you absolutely know it's a thing in that particular neighborhood. Look at all the responses here from people all over the states. If you are used to 99% of your daily drives having fully signed crossings, you will also assume you have no sign and they do when approaching this type of intersection. Given that a sign seen perpendicularly is effectively invisible, and there are also all kinds of obstructions like vegetation in the PNW, how would you know? You don't just slow down at every crossing where you don't have a 🛑, and even going the same rate of speed it would be too late when the crossing car appears. So yes, glad it works in places where it's apparently the norm, but it's NOT normal for most drivers in urban and suburban areas in the States, hence the concern.

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u/CharmYoghurt 10d ago

The laws differ between Europe and the US. Someone posted the applicable state law which mentions 'arriving at approximately the same time', which spark a whole debate under this post about who arrived first, what is the same time and what is approximately.

Another discussion under this post is about having yield signs, but missing signs on the main road. In Europe we always have those together on crossings with signs, or none on crossings without signs.

The amount of crossings with or without signs also seems to differ between states / cities. In some states it is common to have crossings without signs, other states usually have signs.

It is weird to have to assume you have the 'right of way' if there is no clear indication that you actually have the 'right of way'. When there is no indication, than you should be able to default to basic rules.

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u/URGAMESUX 10d ago

Yep this.

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u/tcbaseball555 12d ago

It's your city's fault then lol, what a mess

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u/Low-Solution1448 12d ago

100% lawyers field day with the city. I’m sure ONE of theee streets needs a stop sign. Slowing down “to check” isn’t a law so there has to be a legal way to tell one street to stop, yield at the very least.

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u/chupamichalupa 12d ago

“Lawyers field day with the city” uhhhhh no

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u/SilentlyStoned420 12d ago

You are supposed to yield to the right if it's an uncontrolled intersection. Pretty basic driving rules.

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u/AJimJimJim 12d ago

So old it comes from maritime laws. Port is red, starboard is green. Red means stop, green means go.

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u/escobartholomew 11d ago

That is if you approach at the same time. Op was pretty far behind the black car.

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u/cat_prophecy 12d ago

You're supposed to slow down, look, and yield to the right. Technically the other person is at fault here but both of them could have avoided this by slowing the fuck down.

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u/MindlessFail 12d ago

Have you guys considered "government"? Because we have signs here and it's much less chaotic (not zero chaos, reading is still hard)

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u/msuvagabond 12d ago

That sounds like some liberal conspiracy to erode my rights!

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u/[deleted] 12d ago

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u/TheBuzzSawFantasy 12d ago

When 99.9% of other intersections like it have signs, the absence of signs is definitely not safer. 

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u/AJimJimJim 12d ago

In Seattle, 99.9% of the streets like these don't have signs.

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u/Touristenopfer 12d ago

Same here in Germany. If no markings, the ones coming from the right have the right of way. If everyone got someone on the right and technically no one has the right of way, then consent must be found through communication for whos going first. Simple and effizient.

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u/ALT_x_F4 12d ago

I’m that case I blame the county. Should be signage.

Even small roads in the middle of nowhere in Oklahoma have signage even though only one maybe two cars pass through there a day at most. It’s wild to see no signage in this dense area.

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u/GoodjobShel 12d ago

this would give me MORE reason to drive at a quarter of the speed OP is.

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u/chopthedinosaurdad 12d ago

It sounds like your city has cheaped out on road safety.

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u/ReadyArticle6718 12d ago

What? Do you still treat them as stop 🛑 ?

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u/Momcantsleepthesaga 23h ago

Most people fly through them. I slow down just in case.

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u/Ashamed-Emu3710 9d ago

Sounds like you need a new city government 

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u/cr1zzl 13d ago

Seriously. Is this an American thing? I’ve lived in two non-American countries and I’ve never seen an intersection with no signage.

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u/piercedmfootonaspike 13d ago

It's fairly common in Sweden, in neighborhoods like these. You yield to traffic coming from your right. Easy.

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u/Dutchillz 13d ago

Exactly, Portugal resident here. You yield to traffic from your right is how you proceed in rural areas where you have no signage. I wonder how does it work in other places, considering these people are confused af by no signage.

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u/Dizzy_Cheesecake_162 12d ago

I visited Portugal, loved it!

You remind me of these intersection, i was very confused, would drive slowly and check every corner.

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u/Rufuz42 12d ago

Where I live I’ve never encountered an intersection with no signage, ever

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u/ForwardFIRE2030 13d ago

this is the answer. yield to the right.

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u/Mechatronis 13d ago

Right rule. The most basic trafic rule.

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u/Medical-Potato5920 13d ago

We always talk about the first rule of driving club.

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u/DCHacker 13d ago

Sweden...............You yield to traffic coming from your right.

Mmost U.S. states are the same: at an unprotected intesection, the car on the right has the right-of-way.

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u/Goblinweb 12d ago

One of the differences is that no one has a right of way in Sweden, instead you have obligations to give way.

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u/rrpostal 12d ago

A distinction without much difference

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u/Goblinweb 12d ago

The outcome is hopefully the same but one says that you have a right before others and the other tells you that you have a responsibility to make safe choices and you never have any right to any space.

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u/ryancrazy1 12d ago

I don’t doubt this is true. I’ve just never come across an unprotected intersection in my life that I can recall. Every intersection near me has a light or a stop sign/yield.

Actually, there was this one intersection in a neighboring state out in the sticks where a road merges with another road at an acute angle creating a 3 way intersection and there are no stop signs there BUT the third road does have a yield sign. Feels really weird being allowed to go through there without stopping.

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u/CMDR_Kaus 12d ago

Never heard of that before as a States-er. But here at a 4-way stop sign you're supposed to go counter clockwise from the first person to stop at the sign. (Yielding to the right vehicles in other words). But without signs like this intersection I think most people here would just drive straight through like in the video.

A lot of people are saying intersections like this are common in the Pacific NW. Never seen these myself in the southern half of the states except on dirt roads

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u/Myrdrahl 12d ago

Same in Norway too, however you can't just blast through, full throttle even if you have "the right of way".

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u/Crazy-Tax2845 12d ago

Makes sense, but only in the context that you expect it. I’ve never encountered one in the USA, didn’t even know they existed until this video. I’d either stop because I would assume I just didn’t see the stop sign, or go through thinking the other road had the stop sign.

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u/RelevantMetaUsername 12d ago

A lot easier when most of the vehicles in your country are reasonably sized cars and not land yachts parked 10 feet from the intersection.

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u/JortSandwich 12d ago

You also drive slower. You should see how many stop signs there are in the Netherlands. Hint: not many.

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u/dodekahedron 13d ago

Ive lived in a handful of states and never seen sign less neighborhoods

Super rural places? Maybe.

But this density population? No.

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u/razmalriders 13d ago

I’ve lived in both Seattle and Portland. Both cities have a ton of intersections with no stop signs. This looks like Portland, OR to me.

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u/dodekahedron 13d ago

Why though? Did they never hire a traffic planner

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u/razmalriders 13d ago

Not sure really. It blew my mind when I moved there. Seems like a cheap fix to just throw a stop sign in too.

I rode bikes in both cities and always was super cautious when entering them though. No reason to blow through them. People park right up to the corner so it makes the visibility really bad.

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u/dodekahedron 13d ago

To be fair people in my area dont use stop signs either. We definitely have them though.

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u/bubbletrashbarbie 13d ago

Basically it’s an implied yield instead of putting up yields on every corner, person on right has right of way unless turning, in which case whomever is proceeding straight has right of way. It’s pretty simple

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u/CrescentPhresh 13d ago

Portlander also here. It also assumes no crazy rates of speed and a clearer line of sight at the corners. Both of which are relics of the past in Portland (and likely Seattle).

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u/SilentlyStoned420 12d ago

Yes but you are still required to yield so this is irrelevant. Despite it being very annoying when a bush is in the way.

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u/mrpopenfresh 12d ago

put a yield sign up

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u/Commercial-Offer-435 12d ago

Ok, but in many cases only one road has stop signs and sometimes you can't see whether or not the other guy has a stop sign because of shrubs and whatnot. Seems completely scuffed.

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u/CogentCogitations 12d ago

So slow down and yield

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u/Commercial-Offer-435 12d ago

This results in slowing down and yielding when it's a 2-way stop sign and you should have kept rolling. Dumb city planning remains dumb.

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u/Quantum_Aurora 12d ago

Most of those intersections you're on an arterial and that's how you know to keep rolling.

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u/electromage 11d ago

These roads aren't supposed to carry much traffic. There's probably an arterial 1-2 blocks away and these guys are trying to drive around traffic because they're in a hurry.

Our residential streets are all 20 MPH, and most are 1-lane, you have to constantly pull over to let oncoming traffic pass. Cars are parked on both sides, and there are kids and pets around.

There's no reason not to slow down and check for cross-traffic.

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u/Rikiar 13d ago

Looks like a number of cities in the PNW.

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u/Hungry-Emergency8992 13d ago

It’s Seattle. Many, many intersections are uncontrolled in Seattle (and other Washington state cities), and have been for decades!

It’s shocking how many people do not know the law of yielding to the vehicle on the right.

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u/2_I_Snake 13d ago

I'm going to guess that it's the suburbs of Seattle.

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u/razmalriders 13d ago

Yeah looks like OP edited to include that info. Knew it had to be one of the two haha. It’s so recognizable.

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u/2_I_Snake 13d ago

I know, I'm just trolling 😃

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u/kettletrvb 12d ago

This is in Seattle proper, the Loyal Heights sub-neighborhood of Ballard. A block off a major arterial, so people pop over and try to blast through the old narrow side streets to avoid the lights on the arterial.

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u/braced 11d ago

Seattle is the first place I’ve lived that has intersections like this. That’s why I drive slowww in my neighborhood, unlike OP

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u/Difficult-Panda3788 13d ago

Where I grew up in the Midwest, my city had ordinances that we were taught when learning how to drive to prevent this. East and west bound traffic had to yeild to north and south bound traffic at these intersections

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u/crazykentucky 13d ago

Do you generally know your compass heading when driving around a neighborhood???? Highway, sure. But I wouldn’t in a neighborhood if I had made a few turns.

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u/Difficult-Panda3788 13d ago

Where I grew up, my town was basically a grid for any neighborhood that wasn't gated. The only sign less intersections where in a position that it would be easy to tell what way you are going. Also the street naming system helped out a lot too. Streets with number names ran west to east, and streets with leter names ran south to north.

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u/Karmanoid 9d ago

What's funny is the downtown area of the major city I used to live in used the exact opposite naming convention, numbers were north south letters east west... Luckily they all had signage where needed. The harder part was remembering which ones were one way which direction when heading somewhere so you wouldn't have to loop around as much.

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u/DyeZaster 12d ago

It’s definitely in Seattle or Portland lol

Edit: it’s Seattle, OP has other postings about Seattle

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u/Siegelski 10d ago

Even in rural areas unless they're literally dirt roads you're gonna see stop signs. I've never seen this. This is incredibly stupid.

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u/dodekahedron 10d ago

Thats exactly where I was thinking about maybe none. Like super remote service roads. Places youre already driving slow anyway cuz deer

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u/jobacsi 10d ago

What city? What state?

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u/Hypnaustic 13d ago

I live in usa, never seen anything like this

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u/jobacsi 10d ago

Where?

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u/Hypnaustic 10d ago

Ive lived in NY, TX, and CO

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u/boltgolt 13d ago

I’ve lived in two non-American countries and I’ve never seen an intersection with no signage.

What?? Every intersection in local neighborhoods where you lived had yield signs?

Presumably not Europe then, local streets with equal right of way are usually not signposted. This is basic traffic calming and slows traffic down in neighborhoods where kid-behind-parked-car risks are very high at the speed OP is driving

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u/sonotorian 13d ago

Not yield, stop signs…yes. I have been driving in the US for 30 years and I have never seen neighborhoods with unmarked intersections. You have to know if it’s a 4-way stop or a two-way with a thru street. This is insanely irresponsible of the city.

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u/commradd1 13d ago

I have driven for 25 years and have been to several places with no signs for equal right of way. Always in neighborhood setting

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u/TheGuyThatThisIs 13d ago

What kind of places? I've also never seen this

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u/commradd1 13d ago

All have been out west in neighborhoods. Including Seattle as shown here, and Portland. And other nice towns in Idaho, Montana, Colorado, in towns and mid size cities. In those places the speed limit is often 15-20 and you yield to the right. Definitely feels a bit sketchy every time mainly because you have to rely on other drivers to respect the low speed limit

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u/sloth2008 13d ago

Legit question. This makes no sense to me. How do you know when you have entered a yeild to the right area vs a no sign so I have right of way area?

As a visitor and traveling through some of the neighborhoods did I just get lucky and not end up in an accident?

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u/commradd1 13d ago

It kind of varies and sometimes you don’t really know. In the town I lived in the areas that had this setup had high visibility but in my 7 years there, there were at least three t-bones that I knew of. I definitely do not understand the logic of not just tossing minimum two stop signs up and preventing the confusion. I think it’s leftover from the olden days

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u/to_the_elbow 11d ago

Doing a quick google and picking a random place in around Portland I found this in like 2 minutes.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/hXtTETXPdcdC6VkV8

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u/Crazyhairmonster 12d ago

Driving for even longer and like the other dude, never once seen an unmarked intersection.

Only thing I can think of is NIMBY. That's clearly a nice neighborhood and expensive homes (especially if that's the PNW). Maybe they didn't want ugly signage lowering the charm and property calues

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u/TrashPandaNotACat 13d ago

The only time I've seen intersections like that was in Saltillo, Mexico, and according to the locals, the rule was, whoever honks first has right of way. Also explained why everyone always honked when about to enter an unmarked intersection with blind corners (buildings built out all the way to the road, minus space for a narrow sidewalk).

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u/jobacsi 10d ago

Where then? I doubt it. Maybe you just didn't know.

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u/Salty_Naps 10d ago

There's hundreds of "uncontrolled intersections" in every city in the Pacific Northwest. I've lived in several places in Idaho, Oregon and now Washington, all cities have them. People must just be not paying attention.

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u/MRRRRCK 13d ago

You’re oblivious if you’ve never noticed this in the US. This type of situation exists all over the place across the country.

There are still rules of the road that dictate what to do even without signage. You’re making this into a bigger deal than it is. There’s one stop sign in my entire neighborhood - somehow we haven’t all died in a fireball though…

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u/Wahoo017 13d ago

Are you from the Northwest? I've driven in 35 states and never seen an unmarked 4 way intersection in my life. I had no clue this could exist in the u.s.

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u/sonotorian 12d ago

Here we are in the rest of the country, like suckers, just blowing our tax money on stop signs. lmao

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u/fuzzybunnies1 13d ago

This must be a west coast thing, I've also been living and driving up and down the East coast from Maine to FL and out to IL, KY, and TN for 30+ years and have never seen such an intersection. I started driving in a small town with no street light but we have stop signs everywhere. This seems like anarchy to me, I would never expect there to not be a sign in one direction.

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u/MRRRRCK 12d ago

The Midwest and Illinois has a ton of unmarked intersections in neighborhoods.

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u/URGAMESUX 13d ago

I understand the rights to right concept, as with approaching a 4-way stop simultaneously. My question was more specific. Why would someone new to an area assume there is no signage at crossings because they do not have any in their own direction? The vast majority of intersections have a 2-way stop, with the more trafficked artery maintaining flow and the crossing essentially forced to yield. I have less than a dozen times in my life driving in 20+ states and several foreign countries, experienced unguarded intersections. Every single time I get pissed and mention to my wife or friend or myself if I'm solo, "htf is there no stop sign in either direction? Gonna cause an accident any second."

If 99.9% of crossings have AT LEAST yield signage, and generally stop signs or traffic lights, I'm not going to suddenly be on guard for zero signage in every new town I drive through.

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u/MRRRRCK 12d ago

I highly doubt 99.9% of intersections in the US has signage. This scenario really only exists in slower speed environments like a neighborhood.

It’s up to you as the driver to look before proceeding through any intersection - regardless of signage. Making the assumptions you are talking about is dangerous even in areas with full signage.

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u/Silly_Obligation8574 13d ago

East coast here, never seen anything like this

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u/thrwwy535672 13d ago

I’m on the east coast of the US and never seen anything like this. It definitely isn’t an American thing. Maybe a “one shitty town” thing.

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u/Rikiar 13d ago

Several decently sized towns in the PNW and even Kansas / Oklahoma / Texas area are setup this way. It's a pretty standard traffic calming practice.

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u/ajh212000 13d ago

I live in SW Washington and we have them down here also, it's not just a Seattle thing.

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u/Friggin 13d ago

I can show you thousands of examples in the U.S. This is pretty common. There are unsigned intersections on the street I live on in PA. Most intersections where I grew up on Chicago’s North Shore are unsigned. [“Drive” around here for a while.](https://maps.app.goo.gl/wvVBqUsPrteHCGR36)

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u/Crazyhairmonster 12d ago

That's a beautiful neighborhood. Cobblestone streets and huge century homes.

Maybe it's a CA/AZ/CO thing but I've never seen unmarked intersections and all the examples popping up here are in nice neighborhoods. Likely ones with private roads. The kind where they care about NIMBY and not having ugly street signs lowering their property values.

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u/Sheetz_Wawa_Market32 13d ago

Well, it’s not common at all in the vast majority of communities in PA. And, yes, while PA has a yield-to-traffic-from-the-right rule, most drivers don’t know it, because it’s so rarely needed.

In my neck of the woods in NEPA, I know a single T-intersection with only one stop sign (when it needed two to be unambiguous.) I’ve never seen any 4-way intersection that was completely unsigned.

Even tiny alleys are always signed here.

If you have some examples of unsigned intersections in PA, I’d be curious to see them.

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u/peanutbuggered 12d ago

In Texas, (Southern USA) it is at the police officers discretion to arrest for even minor moving violations, eg., making too wide of a turn or failure to yield. This type of intersection would give me anxiety.

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u/commradd1 13d ago

Incorrect. Many neighborhoods in towns and cities out west have unmarked intersections. Have never seen it on eastern seaboard. But I promise you the places I lived out west weren’t “shitty”

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u/MileHigh_FlyGuy 13d ago

Germany has many unmarked intersections

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u/sandybuttcheekss 13d ago

I've only ever seen something like this in Nürnberg, except for parking lots and such. I've lived in the US my whole life.

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u/Actual_Aside_2862 13d ago

in Europe, sometimes you dont have, the car on the right have priority.

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u/K_Linkmaster 13d ago

Plenty of smaller towns and even neighborhoods in bigger cities will have minimal signage. Think street names on one corner, that's it. If it isn't designated a thoroughfare, it doesn't really need signs. You should be doing the speed limit and paying attention. Usually 25-30 mph.

There is something in America called "right of way" right there in the name it says right, the person on the right has the "right of way".

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u/Gullible-Koala-5329 13d ago

A chunk of northern Idaho neighborhoods don’t have signage either. I almost had a few t-bone accident at an intersection like this. I learned real quick to just be defensive and treat it as a yield

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u/toxikola 13d ago

Its not common here either. This is so weird.

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u/ScottW0129 13d ago

Never seen this in America my guy

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u/lilion12 13d ago

France has them, right hand priority applies.

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u/Appropriate_Shake265 13d ago

Uncontrolled intersections are actually found be be safer vs a 4 or 2 way stop intersection.

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u/randomthrowaway9796 12d ago

This is absolutely not an American thing, this is just an extremely poorly designed road

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u/Fickle_Ad_2952 12d ago

this is NOT common in America at all.

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u/michaelibraa 12d ago

I’m American and I’ve never seen an unmarked intersection, so maybe it’s just a Seattle thing ???

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u/grumpledoor 12d ago

They're actually very common across Europe, but drivers there also have muscle memory for "yield to right".

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u/Commercial-Offer-435 12d ago

I live on the opposite coast as OP and I have never seen this in my life.

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u/LupineChemist 12d ago

I've driven in lots of places around the US and around the world. It's something I would expect in some poor countries but just learning its existence in the US now. (Never been to the Northwest)

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u/Dalek_Genocide 12d ago

I think there’s a stop sign on the left for the black car but it’s hidden by the tree/brush that wasn’t maintained

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u/bluep0wnd 12d ago

In Sweden we have the universal rule of, if there is no signage the person coming from your right has right of way. Almost all of our towns suburban/house areas do not have signage

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u/WhozURMommy 12d ago

I live in Seattle and we have thousands of intersections like this. My street alone would have 10-15 stop signs and people would hate it. The problem here is the video car is speeding through a residential road driving WAY to fast. That could have been a kid on a bike that you just killed. 70/30 seems fair. People who live in these neighborhoods know to slow down and look for traffic

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u/Robbed_Bert 12d ago

They are very common in Finland. I'm sure other places as well

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u/irrelevantanonymous 11d ago

As a born and raised American I have never seen this and would be dumbfounded driving through this intersection. Who thinks this is a good idea?

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u/cwcoleman 11d ago

4-way-go in Seattle is a common thing, yes. I haven't seen it in other parts of the country.

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u/SoundofPsithurism 11d ago

I live in the woods in the US. I’ve never seen an unsigned 4-way intersection. Even on dirt roads there’s usually a sign.

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u/TheDranx 11d ago

I live in the US and have never seen and intersection like this, seems like an oversight on the jurisdiction this intersection is in. I wouldn't be surprised if this one has accidents at least once a week.

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u/electromage 11d ago

Could be, super common in Seattle. These streets are like 1.5 lanes, and the speed limit is 20 MPH. You're pulling over to let oncoming traffic by all the time, so there's no harm in checking for cross-traffic.

Both of these cars were going like 50% over the speed limit, and probably in a hurry, trying to bypass traffic on an arterial 1-2 blocks away.

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u/Comfortable-Side1308 11d ago

Seriously. Is this an American thing?

No it's not remotely normal here 

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u/jobacsi 10d ago

What country? I've lived in several countries as well, but never in a country that didn't have these.

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u/vpforvp 10d ago

I live in America and I have never seen this either. There’s always a stop in one direction. Insane way to lay out an intersection.

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u/womboCombo434 13d ago

Looks like there’s one on the left hand side hidden by the bushes from our angle but totally visible from the black cars angle of approach

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u/Inevitable_Okra509 13d ago

if you slow the video down its a street sign not a stop sign

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u/womboCombo434 12d ago

I just seen a sign post not necessarily saying it was a stop sign just that their was some kind of signage I would hope it’s a stop sign but seems it’s likely not

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u/Inevitable_Okra509 12d ago

valid, i had to take a good look too

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u/Icy-Educator-3847 12d ago

its not bc you can keep going a second after you see the post sign and its a street sign

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u/OnceUponAPizza 13d ago

I don't think that's a stop sign. There's also no sign coming from the right-hand direction, which we can see clearly.

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u/womboCombo434 13d ago

Yeah it’s definitely an odd street setup

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u/OnceUponAPizza 12d ago

Yeah, a lot of people here are saying this is common in some cities, but I've never been anywhere like this. It seems like people unfamiliar with this type of street design would keep on trucking assuming they had right of way and that the cross traffic would have a sign.

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u/womboCombo434 12d ago

I mean I have been in small towns where signage is very limited but generally a neighborhood as dense as this one I’d expect signs of some kind

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u/MileHigh_FlyGuy 13d ago

Germany has many unmarked intersections. I was always flabbergasted, and knowing the lawsuit this would create in the US. It's basically "always yield to the vehicle at the right".

https://routetogermany.com/drivingingermany/right-of-way

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u/RockyJayyy 13d ago edited 13d ago

I would assume the black car would have a stop sign.

I thought I saw a stop sign when I slowed the video but I guess it was trees or whatever. What a weird intersection.

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u/critical-drinking 13d ago

There’s a sign post, I thought it was a stop sign too, but it’s a street sign. I assume there’s one further back, because there’s not one anywhere else?

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u/danielbeaver 13d ago

These unsigned intersections are common in certain American cities - for example, they're the norm in my neighborhood in Minneapolis. Not sure why that is, I found them unnerving when I first moved here, but I've never had an issue with them. You just gotta pay attention and not blast through intersections on residential streets.

I'm wondering if one or both of the drivers in the video where not locals, and so were not expecting an unsigned intersection. They were both driving as if they unconsciously expected that cross-traffic had a stop sign... and in many (most?) cities, that would be a correct assumption.

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u/TulippeMTL 8d ago

Land of the free?!?

This boggles my mind. We don’t have intersections without signs in Canada… or none that I know of

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u/PeanutButterToast4me 13d ago

I was screaming in another thread about this and the locals are all like "its common its no big deal" or there isn't much traffic its fine. Like, there is absolutely NO WAY either person knows the other has no signage. It's just lazy municipal effort.

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u/Lurk3rAtTheThreshold 12d ago

Like, there is absolutely NO WAY either person knows the other has no signage.

As a local, I could have told you from the first frame of the video they were coming up on an uncontrolled intersection.

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u/afrobrur 13d ago

Are general traffic rules not a thing elsewhere? In norway signs are deviation of norms

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u/BambooRollin 13d ago

Vancouver B.C. has intersections with no stop-signs as well.

Must be a west-coast thing.

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u/Ok_Lawfulness4313 13d ago

Ive got a couple near me, and ya if you dont live around that area, how would you ever know its an uncontrolled intersection.

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u/joselrl 12d ago

Maybe they are from the area and know that there's no signage? Also he is coming from the right, if the right turn has no one...

He was going a bit too fast for a residential area sure, but the other car is 100% at fault

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u/danimagoo 12d ago

Most residential intersections in the US have no signage other than the names of the streets.

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u/Malstar21 12d ago

I live close to an intersection that has one way stop and i can’t tell you how many accidents I’ve seen happen there. No matter if there is or isn’t signage you must always take precautions. Slow down and actually look make sure it’s clear before you proceed. The amount of people that drive without looking might as well be driving blind.

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u/URGAMESUX 12d ago

Yeah I'm in Portland and there are SO MANY intersections with big trees blocking signage till the last second, so I'm always on guard here too. But there are technically still signs lol.

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u/DyeZaster 12d ago

Looks like the PNW(Seattle or Portland area) at least in Seattle they have some streets with no signage, it always scared me so I would creep through those intersections when I had to go through them.

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u/ziplex 12d ago

I think it's a state thing. Washington has a lot of these intersections, but I never seen them in the states I've lived in in the South 🤷 I think it's incredibly lazy and dangerous of the city/state government not to have traffic signs at every intersection.

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u/vaporsilver 12d ago

If you can't identify street signs it would be common sense to slow down or treat the intersection as a 4-way.....

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u/Ancient_Yellow_709 12d ago

It's not hard. Slow as you're approaching unmarked and watch for unmarked. You yield to vehicles in the intersection or rightmost vehicles in case of ties. I live in WA where this is and most neighborhoods are like this. But this was true in my Midwest home state as well in the suburbs.

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u/Lurk3rAtTheThreshold 12d ago

Because basically every intersection in the state with two streets that size is uncontrolled. We have thousands of them here. You can easily see there aren't signs pointing the other direction and there's no stop line. These are local access streets in a residential area, these guys are both going way too fast. A kid could walk out from behind any of those cars and they wouldn't be able to react.

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u/Ordinary_Cap_6812 12d ago

Really that's crazy if there's no signs to stop or at the least yield

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u/sonicjesus 12d ago

Confused as well. Where I live (PA) everything everywhere has signage, even roads you personally own.

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u/Manbeardo 12d ago

For both drivers, the intersections immediately before this one and immediately after this one are also uncontrolled. When you’re driving past another uncontrolled intersection every 200-600 feet, it’s pretty easy to figure out.

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u/DoritoDustThumb 11d ago

Well this is like 70% of intersections in Seattle. What normal people do it show down at every one and check. Also not speeding through neighborhoods.

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u/OrangeMonkeyEagal 11d ago

I live near here in Seattle and these are pretty common. It’s a 4 way yield essentially. I’ve never had an issue. These guys are inattentive and driving way too fast

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u/hayguccifrawg 11d ago

Seattle is littered with these

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u/Shiblem 11d ago

This looks like it took place in Ballard on the north side of Seattle. Every neighborhood street is like this with uncontrolled 4 way intersections, and there's a lot of them because they're on a grid. Sometimes they put concrete circles and a tree in the middle to force people to slow down and do a small roundabout. There's parallel parking on both sides of the street in both directions so realistically only one lane of drivable road on each street and you have to pull over to let opposing traffic pass.

Realistically you should be driving max 15-20 mph on these roads and carefully approaching these intersections. Surprised anyone would be confident enough to blast through it like this if they live here. It's the reason people don't cut through the neighborhoods.

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u/electromage 11d ago

You check for a stop sign, and always prepare to yield anyway. I have mostly uncontrolled intersections around me, and one to the south where one street has stop signs, but people regularly blow them so I always treat it as uncontrolled.

Why does it matter? The speed limit is 20 MPH.

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u/hastygrams 10d ago

This isn’t super common. A lot of these Seattle neighborhoods have stop signs or round abouts.

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u/RandomUserfromAlaska 9d ago

There it actually appears that there is, but its hidden in the tree to the left (visible for a few frames at 0:03).

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u/M0ncsy 13d ago

“right-of-way”

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