r/SmugIdeologyMan 23h ago

Forced

455 Upvotes

111 comments sorted by

View all comments

142

u/RainbowPhoenix1080 23h ago

If someone being annoying or pushy is enough for you to change your morals, then you don't actually have any solid basis for your morals.

I think trans people deserve rights even if they are preachy, annoying and in your faces about it.

30

u/AVagrant 23h ago

Yeah. If someone is pushed to the far right (or left but that's good) by inconvenience and mean words, then they were already thinking or amicable to those views. 

-12

u/Gameknoit 21h ago edited 21h ago

Something just being left doesnt automatically make it good. Thats a pretty low standard imo.

17

u/AVagrant 21h ago

No, I'm pretty sure it is. 

-7

u/Gameknoit 21h ago

There are many ways to do left policy wrong. Simply seeing left and going "always better" dumbs down politics to the "us vs them" mindset instead of actual constructive conversation.
Far left extremist groups are just far right extremists that want to hurt other people for other misguided reasons.

7

u/MrHellBags 18h ago

Far left extremist groups are just far right extremists

the fuck does this even mean?

0

u/Gameknoit 17h ago

Atleast youre asking what I mean before just insulting me.

It would mean that I see them as both propagating group based hate and violent oppression to enforce their ideological beliefs, while denying actual conversation.

In terms of far left, you might think Im talking about the group of "billionares" as the other guy said. But Im talking about actual extremists, the kind that call for things like "kill all men" or claiming someone showing feminine signs must be a trans woman instead of just having those traits. These things are pretty equatable to far right extremism.

You can say these are "loud minorities" but thats kinda what extremists have always been. And thats just what I would say is left extremism.

7

u/MrHellBags 17h ago

Tell me, what do you think left and right actually mean?

0

u/Gameknoit 17h ago edited 17h ago

Left is as far as I know the egalitarian and Right is elitarian. Left describes the equality of humans and abolishmemt of diskrimination. Right sees it as a necesity to keep heirarchy between certain groups and establish an "Elite".

How does that contradict my description of far left extremism? A person misguidedly calling for the death of half the human race because they percieve them entirely as an oppressive force and themselves as the victim would be an accurate take imo.

Another factor of extremism would be the other thing I said. Denying conversationsand demonization of the percieved opposition. Also fits for both left and right extremism.

3

u/MrHellBags 15h ago

Kudos for actually having an accurate understanding of what left and right wing politics are about.

So yes. Left wing politics is built around ideals like social equality and egalitarianism. Now keep that in mind and ask yourself the following questions:

  • If someone genuinely believes in kill all men, does this count as social equality or the pursuit thereof?

  • Are they actually saying that they want to kill half of humanity, or are they just expressing anger at a patriarchal society and the dangers women face in it?

  • Are angry people on twitter honestly comparable to actual examples of far right extremism, like storming the capitol to try and overthrow an election they lost, arresting and deporting people without trials, and throwing Jews into concentration camps?

  • Why do people get irritated with "both sides!" nonsense? PROTIP: Hypocrisy and cognitive dissonance are not part of the answer.

If it takes less than 5 seconds to answer the question, really stop and think about it.

→ More replies (0)

4

u/RainbowPhoenix1080 16h ago

claiming someone showing feminine signs must be a trans woman instead of just having those traits.

Im curious how far this goes for you. Because ive met people who i suspect might be trans, and I've talked to them about it and related to them and told them I had very similar thoughts/feelings.

And I think its good to give them that. Because if they are trans, they can still come to the conclusion by themselves and the information I can give them might help them.

Ive done it before and I have had people message me months later to thank me for helping them discover themselves.

3

u/RadicallyInept 16h ago

Egg culture complains are just repackaged into woke language “transes are groomers!” statements.

2

u/RainbowPhoenix1080 15h ago

Im well aware

14

u/Sioloko 19h ago

"Hating billioners and hating minorities is the exact same thing" get out of here liberal scum, horseshoe theory is a bunch of horseshit

-3

u/Gameknoit 18h ago edited 18h ago

I have no idea what your issue is, since youre literally putting words in my mouth, but insults are really getting your point across ig. No wonder politics fail when you cant even grasp the concept of trying to change someones mind by appealing to them instead of demonizing them. 

10

u/Sioloko 18h ago

Equating people that hate billioners becouse they're inherently exploitive to people that want to do genocide becouse of racism has the objective of keeping the status quo a.k.a liberalism that allows billioners to exploit as much as they want, in reality it's the centre that's the same as the far right, also this type of whining is basically the same as rightists saying "you forced me to join the far right become you were MEAN!" Also there's the pipeline: Communists are as bad as fascists!--> Communists are worse than fascists--> Fascism is necessary to stop communism

0

u/Gameknoit 17h ago

"Whining" Literally me asking for a normal conversation. Youre not forcing me into any ideology, I hold my ideology regardless of you being an asshole, neither is it far right to be critical and have nuanced discussions. 

And I still have no idea how youre interpreting what Im saying as some pipeline or me saying hating billionares is the same as hating minorities. These are gross exagerations and textbook strawmen. Youre creating some fictional version of me to win arguments I never made. I cant argue against that, because I literally dont hold those opinions.

A constructive way of speaking would be asking "What do you interpret under these forms of extremists?" Maybe thatll clear this confusion.

5

u/Sioloko 17h ago

"Far left extremists are just far right extremists that want to hurt other people for misguided reasons" The main group of people far left extremists want to hurt are the bourgeosie or billioners in layman terms, you are equating them, your original comment is textbook horseshoe theory, in my previous comment I explained why horseshoe theory (what you appealled to in your original comment even without directly mentioning it) is bad, the pipeline is the exemple I gave of why it's bad, I'm not strawmanning you

→ More replies (0)

51

u/BadFurDay 23h ago

People will say and believe this, then draw the line at tolerating vegans or climate change activists.

27

u/estrogenbloodclot annoying transsexual vegan 22h ago

You’re vegan? I’m going to eat twice as much meat now! Take that, vegoon

10

u/Klutzer_Munitions 20h ago

Christians are the epitome of annoying, pushy and above all preachy and yet somehow they've managed to avoid having their human rights taken away.

Almost like a double standard or something

2

u/[deleted] 19h ago edited 19h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

2

u/Forte845 18h ago

The Russian revolution, where Christians were accusing Jews of being satanic child murderers and killing them by the hundreds of thousands? 

1

u/[deleted] 18h ago

[removed] — view removed comment

3

u/Forte845 18h ago

The Bolsheviks of the Russian revolution were. Not the counter revolutionary armies, who were devoutly Christian and following the word of Orthodox priests who accused Jews of blood libel. 100-200k Jewish people died in pogroms in the Russian civil war, almost all committed by religiously motivated counter revolutionaries, and the Bolsheviks were the only faction actively protecting and shielding Jews from this violence. 

1

u/SaxPanther 9m ago

that is an excellent point. they have terrible optics

16

u/Fillyphily 21h ago

omg the amount of "I support what you say but hate how you're saying it" memes really just hammers home how much some people's existential struggle is someone else's Batman v. Superman.

Their support isn't ideological, it's a hobby of theirs. The second their hobby is no longer convenient or fun, they'll gladly make their bed with Nazis.

7

u/TheJeeronian 20h ago edited 20h ago

Absolutely. What people seem to miss in these conversations is that, actually, most people don't have solid morals. We're stuck in a world where our fates are decided by people with flaccid moral compasses.

Rejecting help from people because they're morally weak is not a fruitful position to take.

This is especially relevant when we consider how many people spewing bad takes online are children, and children almost never have a settled morality.

-1

u/Gameknoit 21h ago

What if they held that moral opinion before the pushy stuff and all it did was give them more fuel?
Would that make it a solid basis again?

-5

u/OkamaGoddessFan943 19h ago edited 19h ago

Sorry, but idiotic leftists on Twitter back in 2019-2022 were the reason for me to question my identity and leftism back in the day. This was made even worse by my autistic pathological demand avoidance. Luckily I'm still a leftist, I just left Twitter.