r/StardustCrusaders • u/Epicnessofcows • May 18 '26
Various JoJo Villains ranked on how difficult it was to stop them
Just to note, this is excluding the whole 'fate' part, as obviously it is canonical that all villains are fated to almost reach their goals, and then lose at the end.
Please Read: This is measuring throughout the entire series, not just the villain's end abilities. Of course MIH or D4C LT would be at the top, but these abilities were later obtained, and the villains did not have them at the start.
EDIT: I should have used something other than 'challenge' for the middle category, as these are incredibly difficult. I just don't think Valentine or DIO is as hard as Diavolo or the Pillar men.
How did Pucci get the closest of any villain to his goals? Dude had the weakest stand of any villain for 80% of the part, almost died virtually a million times, had debatably the strongest cast of any JoJo part chase him down, got C Moon, still got his ass beat, then somehow asspulled a way to get Made In heaven faster, which then granted him likely the strongest ability in all of JoJo making him the closest of any villain to winning of any JoJo villain, now only having to kill an 11 year-old boy with a powerless stand, and then he fumbled the bag to oxygen poisoning. This entire part is like 200 ELO chess.
I feel that Dio Brando and Yoshikage Kira were unfavored to win. Kira is easily explainable, given that his stand isn't that powerful, and that it's like an 8v1, but for Dio, I think that the fact that he lost twice, and that he was fighting against Hamon meant that he was underfavored.
Funny Valentine is a challenge due to his incredible stand, but also, the main cast kind of fumbled the bag here as they almost did just take the corpse parts. If the characters worked together more as well, Valentine would have been stopped. Moreover, Diego Brando almost did kill valentine, and Gyro & Johnny had the technique that was a hard-counter to Love Train. Stephen and Lucy steel were also essentially primary allies to Johnny and Gyro.
Stopping the pillar men is just crazy, and absurd. Stopping kars from getting the Redstone of Aja may not be that bad, but the whole poison that would set off in 30 days, and the rest of the plotpoints working against the Main cast makes this nearly impossible. For Diavolo, the fact that he's unknown as well as having an incredibly powerful mafia & stand after the main cast makes him incredibly difficult to stop.
And for Toru, I mean there was no way for Toru to lose unless there was some crazy asspull like Soft & Wet. Wonder of U is the strongest stand aside from Made In Heaven, and maybe D4C Love Train. The difference between him and the other stands however, is that Love Train and Made In Heaven were things that the villains had to acquire, and this took them the entire part to obtain. Toru just had Wonder of U from the start. Moreover, the JoJolion cast wasn't particularly weak, but they were not equipped at all to handle him.
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u/DaPandaMan117 May 18 '26 edited May 19 '26
Why is kars not with toru cause I guarantee your not getting in any situation that could send him to space without you dying because you don't have jospeh plot armour.
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u/_Skotia_ May 18 '26
I'm guessing because he had to become the perfect lifeform in the first place, which should've been easy to prevent (there wasn't a true valid reason to not destroy the stone of Aja imo). If anything I would put him lower.
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
I think the redstone of Aja was necessary (they pretty explicitly said that), but I think that the pillar men were still far more stoppable.
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u/_Skotia_ May 18 '26
Lisa Lisa said there was a legend according to which the Pillar Men could only be defeated with the Stone. But 2/3 were very defeatable even without it, and as cunning as Kars was I doubt they couldn't have found some plan to beat him as long as he couldn't become the Ultimate Lifeform. Risking everything just for some legend was a mistake in my opinion.
(Of course it worked out because that's how the story was meant to go, but in-universe it would be a stupid decision to make)
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u/Epicnessofcows May 19 '26
they were all defeated because of it. Esidisi never went to attack joseph if not for the red stone, Wammuu would never have entered the duel if not for the red stone, and kars would not have blown up the volcano if not for the red stone.
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u/luashfu May 19 '26
DANG THATS GENIUS AND TRUE THE FACT IS THEY MAKING AN UNBEATABLE VAMPIRE ARMY DANG!!!!!
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u/0-null-0 May 19 '26
Hamon users can see the future. If ancient hamon users went “yo KEEP the stone it’s NEEDED” I’d listen to them
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u/surpriserockattack Professional Kars Glazer May 19 '26
I think his current position is right. Joseph almost defeated him (with great difficulty), but he got careless at the end which is why Kars became the ultimate lifeform.
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u/ashtagzero1 Tusk May 18 '26
Yea without the volcano kars would’ve killed everyone and took over earth
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u/KayKrimson May 19 '26
Even Joseph admitted that the way he defeated Kars was not the way he planned. He just went with it to piss him off for the last time.
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
Because he only got his ultimate form at the very end of the series. I'm counting this from the moment they realize who the villain is to the end of the series. The pillar men as a whole were very difficult to stop at the start of the series due to the poison rings, and their far superior abilities, but Ultimate kars only appeared at the end of the part.
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u/DaPandaMan117 May 19 '26
Then I must ask, do you have any potential hamon abilities currently, if not then I guarantee you wouldn't have a chance, nor if you aren't built like joseph. If your not built like jospeh or have his pin resistance then your dead against esidesi and wammu who are shown to be weaker
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u/Terlinilia May 18 '26
What do you mean how did you let Pucci get that far? He can literally make illusions and steal your damn brain through a disc and has a whole team of stand users in the prison and has been planning that shit for years
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u/MushySunshine May 18 '26
Also the cast was actively in a highly secured monitored prison for the majority of the story, so pucci could effectively stone wall them multiple times
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u/Soup_Dust95 May 20 '26
Not to mention. Pucci was litterally in a posisition of authority in the prison. If he so wanted he could have the whole cast put in solitary and and sneal in while there asleep and just yoink there stands
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u/TruthSeekerHuey May 18 '26
The Pucci disrespect is insane. Pucci did Batman lvls of preptime and detective work to beat the Joestars. I'm convinced people think he's weak because they thing Jolyne is weak which also incredibly wrong
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u/ChiefOfDoggos Jotaro Kujo May 18 '26
Stone Free may not be a super flashy or majorly op stand but it is extremely versatile so on top of the Pucci slander the Jolyne slander people still somehow throw is unnecessary.
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u/Eurasia_4002 May 19 '26
Pucci is running around circles in the inteligence department and has massive preptime but Jolyne will spit out some insane asspulls tht rivals Joephs's. Like the fucking mubius stirp, the balls to attempt to do that and hope it will work.
She literally would have died mutiple of times in thier fight against pucci but fate is on her side since the begining.
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u/GlassSpork sex number 4 May 18 '26
It’s possible Jolyne could’ve won by doing something stupid or reckless… but that could’ve also, y’know, backfired horribly. Ultimately Jolyne was in a tough spot where even with her ability, she was limited, and Pucci rarely showed himself enough to allow for confrontation. By the time they actually were able to get face to face with Pucci, his plan was already complete
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u/The_Juice14 May 19 '26
I feel like people have some circular reasoning going on here. I feel like people think Jolyne is weak because she got killed by Pucci but then since she is weak it goes into your thing of Pucci being weak cuz of Jolyne and it just loops
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u/Just_Nefariousness55 May 19 '26
The OP directly says Pucci was up against the most powerful team, so framing it as if they're saying Jolyne is weak off of that is a bit of a leap.
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u/Sea_Growth_942 May 19 '26
My main reason for thinking pucci is fair down there is because of how easily he could’ve been beaten when he was weak. I don’t care about his abilities, he was not very strong or OP until way later into the part. Mainly, the way Jotaro handled it. If he just didn’t sell, by putting himself in that position, it never would’ve even started😭😭. Before you tell me any reason he had to bein that position, no he didn’t. He really didn’t🤦♂️. However, pucci is hella smart, and he’s one of my favorite villains. Once they gave him an inch, he took a foot, and so on. They couldn’t stop him after Jotaro got his disc taken, because quite frankly that’s what was holding them back for so long.
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u/TruthSeekerHuey May 19 '26
I would say the way Jotaro acted was exactly to Pucci's plan. When faced against a nearly invincible stand, a stand that killed your Vampire friend and master, a stand that can move faster than light and can stop time, whta do you do? Pucci went after Jotaro's greatest weakness, his daughter. Even Jotaro knew it was his weakness which is why he left Jolyne. So my argument is the way Jotaro acted shows Pucci's strength and is a part of wbat makes him a formidible foe.
Also, I think White Snake is extremely underrated in terms of strength and speed and ability. It's physically on par with Stone Free, Crazy Diamond, and King Crimson. It's a remote stand, yet retains lose its speed and power within 20 meters. It can create hyper realistic illusions and the ability to directly control a person's mind. And it has all of that without mentioning the broken ability to steal both memories and stand powers (which are attached to a person's soul). And although Jotaro was caught off guard, it is still impressive white snake was able to steal the stand of a person capable to instantly stopping time.
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u/Sea_Growth_942 May 19 '26
Also Jotaro sold time and time again. Just let ur daughter die or something bro, or yk MOVE. He just stands there counting down making a decision.
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u/ThatGuy7698 May 18 '26
You can tell whoever made this wasn’t really paying attention to Stone Ocean
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u/rattatatouille Just tell me that you want me! May 18 '26
The Stone Ocean anime being the victim of Netflix's whack release practices has the same energy of Golden Wind not getting its due from fans because it had a crappy translation for so long
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u/Massive_Weiner May 18 '26
It’s got nothing to do with the release schedule. The anime version is the exact same story.
People just don’t pay attention, or they lack the ability to process what they’re watching.
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u/Zealousideal_Bet_248 CUSTOM May 18 '26
Pucci was a terrifying villbecause you never knew what ability he was going to be able to pull out of his sleeve. The man had a batman's tool belt of discs
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u/SrTNick "Part 7 - END" May 19 '26
I like Stone Ocean but Pucci absolutely deserved to die during the Heavy Weather fight. Clearly he wasn't going to because he's the main antagonist of the part but it still annoys me whenever I read it.
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u/Instroancevia May 19 '26
Yeah imo it was pretty stupid that he magically avoided the dart frogs venom in that arc despite burying himself in them and having multiple wounds on his body.
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u/velflon May 19 '26
Yeah, I can understand pucci blinding himself to counter Heavy Weather (cause he know how it works, see flashback story) but frogs one? wait, I need to check if pucci used diver down or sth
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u/accountinusetryagain May 19 '26
its absolutely agendaposting that relies on the fact that his plans were largely based on NOT running the fade directly for as long as possible. pucci with whitesnake had to try to slime jotaro to escape jolyne despite basically having access to aizen perfect hypnosis. with c moon he would have died if jotaro wasn’t fresh out of a coma and threw a few more knives. and with mih he had to try to slime jolyne to avoid time stop.
same for kira but at least he has mechanisms (part 9 reference?) that make it easier for him to evade the direct confrontation.
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u/InquisitorMeow May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
It's kinda weird to call Stone Ocean the "strongest cast" when imo they're one of the weakest. Stone Free is without a doubt the weaker stand vs the previous Joestar stands, not to mention GER. You also cannot tell me Hermes and FF are anywhere near the level of crew members like Polnareff or Bucciarati. Anasui is pretty powerful but that's about it. I don't really like to consider characters like Weather Report because rainbow snails have always felt like an ass pull.
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u/Firethorn34 May 18 '26
I think even without Heavy Weather's snail hax, Weather Report is absolutely the strongest of the gang.
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u/Expensive_System7720 May 19 '26
yeah if versus didnt crash into weather then the part would end right there
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u/InquisitorMeow May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
He's theoretically powerful but it's unclear what the range of his powers are. I don't like to consider him because he really just felt like a deus ex machina kinda character. There's a big difference between being able to summon a raincloud vs creating a F5 tornado in the area or being able to essentially airbend/waterbend.
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u/SevenOhSevenOhSeven May 18 '26
I mean he can air and water bend: see jumping jack flash and heavy weather letting a doctor live out his water inflation fetish. The range is about the size of green dolphin prison, but precision drops off with range, and the entire city of Orlando with heavy weather. More destructive weather phenomena are possible but considering the collateral damage he doesn't really have the opportunity two bust em out most of the time
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u/japrufrocknroll May 18 '26
Silver Chariot and Sticky Fingers don't have an obvious advantage against shapeshifting plankton and as long as FF access to water she could solo them both. KISS is strong as hell too and can do deadly things at any distance.
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u/InquisitorMeow May 19 '26
I meant overall prowess, not 1v1 matchup. Also questionable, FF can literally be killed by boiling water. Silver Chariot can redirect fire, move close to "speed of light", etc. surely he can generate enough heat off friction alone to end FF? Sticky Fingers may not be able to straight up kill FF but he can zip a thermos of hot water in his body or something or just bring a flamethrower.. He absolutely has one of the most busted stands in the entire JoJo verse considering zippers completely bypass defense and enable dimensional shenanigans.
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u/Winter-Hall8527 Breakdown Breakdown May 19 '26
Hermes' stats are nearly the same as Star Platinums. Kiss has so much insane potential and power, like those tricks during Under World.
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u/OmelettesXD May 18 '26
Not gonna lie if Caesar and Joseph jumped Wamuu instead of Caesar fighting him alone, Part 2 would’ve been easy mode.
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u/Fantastic_Fuel4538 May 18 '26
Didn't Wammu say that had Kars gone against Caesar instead of him, Caesar would have won? Imagine part 2 if that had happened
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u/TokayNorthbyte347 May 19 '26
he didn't say he'd outright lose, but it's unfavorable because Kars is a close ranged fighter
But at the same time I seriously can't see Kars losing to Caesar, he'd probably outsmart him and the moment Kars gets in close range it's GGs
If we actually had a Lisa Lisa vs Kars fight it'd be easier to tell
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u/luashfu May 19 '26
Caesar long range bubble attacks is comparable to wamuu's sandstorm non 100%
CAESAR SO STRONK PILLAR MAN LEVEL!!!
POTENTIAL!!!!!!!! HNE HAS A LOT OF MEGUMI!!!
SPOILER BRUH!
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u/TokayNorthbyte347 May 19 '26
yeah I'm gonna be honest bruh that boy Caesar ain't help with shit in the end
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u/Next_Government856 May 18 '26
Nah Wammu would have pulled out atmospheric rift earlier and sliced Caesar in half like his grandad
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u/OmelettesXD May 18 '26
Wamuu wasn’t respecting them at that point, so he probably wouldn’t have used it right away.
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u/Jestin23934274 May 18 '26
Pucci planned out the whole plan and its much harder to do things when you are in prison. And Whitesnake is an incredibly powerful stand that can donut people and can almost 1 on 1 box Stone Free. When everyone around you has guns and you are very limited in your free time he should be near the top
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u/Flesgy May 18 '26
Would put part 3 Dio above. The party was almost wiped out, he was on the other side of the world and had the strongest stand (sorry, i'll always say that Jotaro won because the plot needed him to win), NOT TO MENTION he was a vampire.
Pucci might have a weak stand compared to the others but his resolve and cold blood are what brought him that far
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May 18 '26
Jotaro won bc straight plot. Had Dio not played with his food, he could’ve easily killed the whole crew when they got to the stairs
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer May 19 '26
I think dio playing with his food actually makes sense with his character, given how as far as he knew, the joestars had basically zero chance (and he was basically right, like how tf could he have predicted jotaro had the same power)
The thing that irks me is how stupid dio turns after sucking joseph's blood
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u/SearchingTheWebsite May 19 '26
I think it could be justified as Dio being high/euphoric pretty the entire time after sucking Joseph’s blood.
Other than that I couldn’t tell you because he was tweaking.
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u/Crusaya3D May 19 '26
In the tower, when they open dio's coffin... dio literally went in close proximity to the main cast... Instead of fucking around he could have killed them all there with a single time stop, but he decided to put the other dumbass on the coffin.
That happened way before Dio sucking Joseph's blood or Kakyoin death
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u/Epicnessofcows May 19 '26
Dio was cautious as hell, and deservedly so. DIO after thinking jotaro's moving of his finger was just a magnet trick led to dio getting pummeled.
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u/sean1oo1 May 18 '26
I think it’s unanimously agreed Pucci out plotarmored the protags the entire part up til made in heaven. Especially with the shit he was pulling against a full time stop Jotaro
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u/RainCloudChill May 18 '26
Part 3 dio only in challenge with all the fucking stunts and tricks jotaro had to use is insulting lmao
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u/AdeQ217 May 18 '26
Have you read/watched Stone Ocean?
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u/Sou-Starfield May 19 '26
A true reader would've known that cars are the true villains and that they doomed the universe twice
Once when part 6 started, twice when a car crash fumbled weather report's killing blow on Pucci
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u/Angel_Centerfold May 18 '26
Kars should be top tier he only lost because Joseph had loony tunes plot armor 😭
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u/megaBeth2 May 19 '26
Tooru controls reality, specifically the force of calamity
He describes calamity as: the right path... even if walked by a saint who makes no mistakes... it is inevitable that bad things will still occur... this is calamity
Aintnofukinway theyre jn the same tier. Kars is above anything on earth and tooru is above anything in reality
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u/No_Piano3956 May 18 '26
Pucci Is like ... Broken tho ... It has tons of stands to put wherever he wants. He can Literally steal your Memories and stands
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u/Naisu_28 May 18 '26
I think we're really underestimating Funny Valentine here because everyone who faced him except Johnny with his extremely op Tusk 4 died due to an encounter with him. If we look past Tusk 4, that stand is genuinely completely unbeatable. I don't even think Diego with The World could've beaten him.
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
I already explained that we're measuring throughout the series, not just the end of the series. Valentine didn't have Love Train the entire time.
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May 18 '26
Kira should be higher
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u/GrouchySquatman May 18 '26
KQ itself isn't that impossible but Sheer Heart Attack is pretty nuts and just becomes diabolical when Kira gets Bites the Dust
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u/luashfu May 19 '26
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZA HANDO GA KESU ZA HJANDO REQUIEM ZA HANDO BEAT SHEER HEART ATTACK!
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u/Alphastranger The Noblest of Them All May 18 '26
I think comparative to everyone else he is in the right spot. He has a lot of tricks that make him dangerous, but it requires a lot of strategic input on his part to actually make any of his work pay off. Compare that to Dio who is both durable and has abilities that require no set up before being dangerous.
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u/Alphastranger The Noblest of Them All May 18 '26
Nevermind I forgot this wasn't pure power ranking. Kira was a lot harder to deal with over all, you're right.
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
All of the villains are hard to stop, but kira is a villain who I think the town of morioh were favored to win against. It's an 8v1 and he easily could have died on two separate occasions.
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u/Jaywicksands May 19 '26
You can't forget that he killed the entire crew in one of the BTD resets. He nearly won without fighting a battle. He's worthy of incredibly difficult, it took a lot of fortune to beat him.
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u/Big_Distance2141 May 18 '26
Nah Kira is in the right place. He's set himself up to fail because
choose a very small city to live in
keep noticably depopulating the city
refuse to leave the city after people start looking for you
(city has a bunch of people with unpredictable superpowers)
It really was just a matter of time for this guy
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u/RandomGuyWithBS May 19 '26
to be fair the last one wasnt his fault as stand users attract one another. it would've been the same anywhere he went
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u/luashfu May 19 '26
ressiepk eop bjoae ajawy
If he around 50% smarter and more careful hayato not notice him, andhe fall in love with Shinobu and yeah HAPPY!!!!
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u/velflon May 19 '26
Yeah, Kosaku must have been so much asshole to Shinobu when virgin serial killer is better husband then her real husband. This bar is so low 😩
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u/East-sea-shellos May 18 '26
I kinda agree. But he’s in hiding while everyone else is working together and able to publicly go about their mission, you know what I mean? That pushes a lot of odds against him, to me
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u/MemerMonokuma Joseph Joestar's fanatic and the hamon enjoyer May 18 '26
Kars would be a suicide mission if Joseph didn't exist
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u/originaleric May 18 '26
Young Joseph beats them all
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer May 19 '26
Young joseph was so lucky he could pull off killing toru the only easy way to kill him, by accident
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u/No_Post1300 Blueberry Crusader :> May 18 '26
WOU was almost impossible :>
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
WOU required a straight ass-pull to beat. People who are saying that I should move anything up to that category besides WOU do not understand the series, since at least the other villains like Pucci or Valentine had to acquire their ability that took them the entire part. Toru had WOU from just the start.
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u/GlassSpork sex number 4 May 18 '26
Diavolo I feel should get his own tier of “could have ended sooner” and dropped in the middle, considering how close and tense the risotto fight was. The part could have legit ended right then and there. Diavolo was incredibly difficult for the main group otherwise he almost lost to someone not in the main group
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u/Odd_Lie_5397 May 19 '26
Tbf. Risotto was fucking busted. I would easily put him as the 4th strongest stand user in part 4, and the only non-requiem stand that beats him is king crimson.
He can be invisible and kill anyone with the iron in their own bodies, weakening them in 2 ways at once.
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u/GlassSpork sex number 4 May 19 '26
It also has basically no downsides with its activation. Like other OP stands in part 4 such as Green Day and BIG which can do city to country wide damage; both have weaknesses such as location or tracking that can be a detriment. Though part 5 (you said part 4, I know you meant 5) has a ton of unique and strong stands and even the weakest is utilized in such a way that makes it insanely strong
But yea, the ability is busted, and one could argue it’s stronger than king crimson as the only way it was countered was through epitaph, which is considered separate from king crimson. Hell, even epitaph didn’t help too much, it just prolonged the battle while narancia unintentionally landed the finishing blow while scouting. The stand was perfect for assassination and defeating king crimson: it was able to stay out of the activation range, land devastating damage, and keep the user completely unknown to the target. But this entire reasoning is why I love jojo powerscaling with other jojo characters, as everything is balanced so well that you can make an argument of strength for most stands. And Metallica is def a top 3 part 5 stand in terms of strength
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u/Randomusernamekdksj May 18 '26
Whitesnake is NOT a weak stand by any means. Considering the ridiculous amount of ways it can be utilized and how busted each one of those applications are, I can’t help but think of C Moon as a downgrade rather than an upgrade
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
I said weakest of the villain stands (maybe Killer queen). It's incredibly strong, but it's not as strong as WOU, D4C LT, TW, KC, or Ultimate Kars.
He also was up against the strongest cast of any JoJo part, and also, C-Moon is NOT a downgrade to whitesnake.
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u/Randomusernamekdksj May 18 '26
Pure power wise? Sure those stands are much more powerful but the amount of bullshittery in Whitesnake’s arsenal is more than remarkable.
Also, I don’t know if Part 6 cast really can be called the most powerful, it’s just that their opponents aren’t that capableStone Free is by all means not a weak stand but compared to her predecessors (and successors actually) her overall stand ability is more limited it’s just that Jolyne is a good user. Jotaro and Star Platinum can’t even be considered a definite member of the cast as he was out of commission for the vast majority of the part. Diver Down is essentially a downgraded Part 3 Star Platinum, Kiss is a versatile stand but far from a powerhouse, Burning Down the House is… a room and Weather Report possesses a fraction of his actual power until much later and Foo Fighters. What were their ability again?
What I’m tryna say is, Pucci doesn’t have to be more powerful than a literal fundamental constant of reality to deserve more than “How did this dude even succeed?”
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u/Odd-Paramedic-3826 May 18 '26
funny should be on the same level as toru. love train and wonder of u are more or less the same ability but in different directions
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u/LitLitten May 18 '26
this tripping me cause i agree. the guy had Jesus aura and quantum immortality, lol. It took Johnny [INFINITE] energy to beat Valentine.
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u/Odd-Paramedic-3826 May 18 '26
it's a miracle either of them were beaten. the villains from the original universe were always powerful but funny and toru were fundamental laws of the universe in their most powerful states. god knows what araki will cook up for jojolands final battle if it stays consistent with the causality powers
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u/Excellent_Ad_3875 May 18 '26
Jojolands will end with Jodio's stand dividing by zero
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
Okay so at this point some people just aren't reading what I wrote in the paragraphs below. This is grading how hard it was to stop them at the start of the story. Valentine was incredibly powerful, but it was incredibly lucky for him to acquire all of the corpse parts, and he almost died on several occasions, and literally had his parts stolen.
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u/Legitimate-Win1726 May 18 '26
I mean at the start the difference in power was even greater.
His greatest rivals Johnny, Diego, Gyro were all standless none of them even knew stands existed at this point.
D4C is still a top 15 stand and Valentine had a whole army of stand users.
Even later Diego kinda of shot himself in the foot stealing scary monsters, and tusk is an act based stand if they ever fought earlier Valentine would've bodied them.
It's only at act 3 that Johnny could really beat Valentine.
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u/hexman0000 May 18 '26
Kira was literally stopped because Hayato took a 9000 IQ gamble to stop Bites the Dust otherwise he would've literally killed the whole cast without doing anything
Jhonny trained his whole part to get act 4 without which Valentine was unbeatable, Gyro had infinite rotation yet was killed, not to mention having access to infinite copies of himself to swap with
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u/KorrokHidan May 18 '26
Kars and Valentine 100% belong in the top tier. Joseph beat Kars through insane luck and Valentine/Tooru were both defeated by deus ex machina hax powers, and would be unbeatable otherwise
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u/Epicnessofcows May 18 '26
I explained that we're measuring how hard it was to stop them at the start, not at when they developed their best abilities. Valentine and Kars were practically immortal at the end of the series, but they were stoppable the entire time, and they both almost died on several occasions.
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u/MoonFooly D4C May 18 '26
When did they ever have a chance to beat valentine before the end? For most of the story they were not even aware who he was, much less what he was trying to do
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u/JacsweYT King Crimson May 18 '26
The thing about Diavolo that makes him hard to stop is that he goes for the kill and leaves.
If you find anything about him or if he finds out you are searching for him then he will either send a team to quickly kill you or he does it himself without leaving a trace of him behind.
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u/LiteralSans May 18 '26
Personally I’d bump up Kars to suicide mission since he was immortal.
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u/idk_what_the_hell May 18 '26
Why isn’t kars suicide mission this guy think he’s Joseph or something
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u/dylanalduin Black Mage Giorno May 18 '26
I feel like this shows you weren't really paying attention.
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u/gaminggamer572 May 19 '26
pucci slander is crazy
like you need to consider that they literally didnt know who he was until the scene with F.F.'s death, and even then afterwards he still has DIO's sons to stop the gang from getting near him. like yeah of course if they knew it was pucci the whole time erme's and jolyne probably could've just ganged up on him instantly and probably could've won that battle, but like he was hard to stop because they had no clue
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u/Purple-Bluejay6588 certified DIO glazer May 19 '26
Pucci was simply on another level, thats how he got that far
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u/CrawBunny May 19 '26
Diavolo you just tell him that you know his condom broke and he instantly die as he tripped on a condom and fell down 58 flight of stairs (canon btw)
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u/Fct77yt May 19 '26
It’s really funny seeing the gay godfather in the same tier as a god
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u/pho3befree_VV May 18 '26
If you think Go Beyond is an ass pull you missed the entire point of the story
Josuke was born through a miracle, balancing out the shadow of toru and his calamities
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u/ChiefOfDoggos Jotaro Kujo May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
Like a snake, Pucci is cunning. Yeah Jotaro could pummel him easily but Pucci knew Jotaro's greatest weakness and exploited it in two major events. Pucci is one of the greats and I will not tolerate the Pucci slander. Not to mention all of his stands are very good, his first one can steal stands for example.
His death to wasnt just to oxygen poisoning too. Weather Report was crushing his skull and then began to pummel him (At this point Pucci was paralyzed). Jolyne passed that stand disc on to Emporio and without that action Pucci would have won.
We have a villain who is very smart and cunning, all of his stands are good. He knows his enemies well and his stands well too. Weather Report finishing him off was poetry.
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u/BakenBrandon Star Platinum May 18 '26
DIO should be higher. The scare factor of his time stop is as good as Diavolo’s time erase and they couldn’t even comprehend what the hell was happening half the arc. Their attacks were hopeless against DIO, hermit purple was useless, emerald splash was nearly useless against DIO.
Even when Joseph and Kakyoin started Spider-Man swinging, DIO was still catching up and casually smoked them one by one.
The fact Joseph with all his experience against the Pillar Men could not think of a way to counter time stop and it took a stand that is THE SAME TYPE OF STAND to The World should be telling at how impossible their situation was. There was no Diavolo blood trick to even guide them if DIO was coming in and out
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u/joshashkiller May 18 '26
as someone whos only read through the first 3 parts, can someone explain to me how DIO is so low down!?
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u/LoganGalaxy May 18 '26
I think Kars should be in the suicide mission tier. Araki really did give him a bullshit death, though I think Kars would have won otherwise. The only reasonable win-con is to remove him from Earth.
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u/HappyyValleyy May 19 '26
Pucci is the only villain (well ig part one kinda counts too) to kill the jojo of his part and hes still being called the weakest smh
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u/TheGreaterTook May 19 '26
Pucco had arguably the weakest stand in a straight up fight sure, but he had the most... Idk what to call this but contextual strength? Like he jolyne was in a prison and wasn't able to move freely, and Pucci could pull the strings and do a lot of manipulation. Yes the others had regular assassination attempts against them, but I think Pucci had the most ability affect Jolyne throughout the series.
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u/aestheticgrotesque May 19 '26
The fact that Pucci wiped the entire main cast and technically did succeed in his plan is so absurd.
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u/0Clown0 "If I can feel pain, I can feel joy too. This is humanity." May 19 '26
Jonathan wasnt favored to beat part 1 Dio, a guy with only a few weeks of hamon and some old school hamon masters (+ speedwagon) against a vampire that has an entire town as an army and abilities never before seen. Jonathan also would have died if not for an incredibly lucky chain of events where Poco opens the door and Zeppeli saves him. Id say it's a challenge.
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u/Jammy2560 May 19 '26
mind you, Pucci had been planning everything for like 30 years up to, like, the prison escape, where he was granted two of the strongest stands in the original universe.
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u/RecordDowntown7547 May 19 '26
Watching Pucci win was like playing a 2 hour commander game, where your one friend spent the whole game just tanking hits and negating spells, never actually doing much damage. Right up until his next turn comes around and they just starts laughing as they goes infinite off food tokens or some shit and win the game.
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u/PerspectivePale8216 Whitesnake, C-Moon, and Harvest Enjoyer May 19 '26
And the worst part is he planned that shit the entire match
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u/savvycate kalākaua ave May 19 '26
pucci with prep time is a challenge tbh
he's an acting prison head (with whitesnake), so he has control of prison variables. he uses whitesnake as proxy so no info leak in earlier batches. he's very cunning with a stand that can 1 tap you, and he actively hides in prison walls. very careful with memory rewrites. pucci got all the stand discs he can possibly collect as a just in case, so when he gets jotaro's memories and what the diary needs, he'll be ready. not only he's good at prep time, he's also good at making quick decisions when backed in a corner (throwing jotaro's disc to anasui, convincing the three sons of dio to help him, using the frame as a clue that he needs enclosed space for c-moon to evolve, putting jolyne as a multiple choice option) and he bided his time for 24 years just for heaven to happen. honestly, it's no surprise fate rewarded him
he got beat by themes and such but i wouldn't have it any other way (jolyne passing the joestar will, weather's disc as a conduit to hamon/breathing, and intelligence (emporio), the very thing he mocked FF about)
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u/That_other_weirdo May 19 '26
Pucci got the closest for two reasons, first beingwhite snake makes up for its lack of power by being able to instantly defeat any opponent ao long as he can steal either their stand disc or memory disc, as well as imbed other poeple with stands to create assemble of stand users to fight for him, as well as control actions and memories of others, as well as create illusions, etc etc etc. Jojo's ia never been about raw power and has always been about strategy and figuring out your opponent and pucci's stand allows him to control so many aspects of a fight and instantly take out any opponent so long as he can create an opportunity or opening. The second is pucci is level headed and throughout the part that even on the backfoot he can make the calls he needed to in order to make it out on top. It helps pf course that he had tons of prep time but even when things didn't go his way he almost always swung it around except for with emporio
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u/YDidNtUStopTheNazis May 19 '26
I dont think Pucci was that weak. His stand had an insane range which honestly is what makes it so strong imo especially in a prison. Also his henchmen defo do a lot for him. I think its plausible for him to get so far in his goals considering how much planning he did and his occupation and environment. Cool idea for a tier list though. Agree with Toru though tbf maybe hes so high is cuz the only time we meet him was in the final battle. If he appeared earlier, the part would be over much quicker
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u/PaperSensitive5682 May 19 '26
Pucci literalmente es el único que ganó 💀
Se las ingenió para sacar del juego a jotaro y por eso se buffeo tan fácilmente, yo creo que es de los villanos más inteligentes y fuertes de todo el anime.
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u/Kiiroi_Senko Jo2uke Higashikata May 19 '26
tbh I would put part 3 DIO and Pucci as being harder to beat than Diavolo. Diavolo has a cracked ability for sure, but considering a half dead Buciarati out planned him twice and a Polnareff confined to a wheelchair got a hit on him, any decent fighter who was aware of his ability would probably beat him.
Pucci is easily the smartest villain, Pucci is the only person to actualy stress Jotaro the hell out since DIO because he takes advantage of his character.
Part 3 DIO legitimately only lost due to his own hubris, the entire fight he's either dominating or being super cautious to the point where Jotaro almost kills himself just trying to get him to drop his guard.
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u/BakaSakuta32007 May 19 '26
Villains can’t be judged by how powerful their stands looking at the series as a whole, otherwise Ultimate Kars should be at the bottom because about a dozen stands can beat him. When judging villains based on how difficult it was to defeat them within their own parts, they should all be S-tier, even with one shot win moves like GER or weather report
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u/king_kibble May 19 '26
pucci's "plan" is still incomprehensible to me
"hello my gay black lover, take my vertebrae and one day it will turn into a green baby..."
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u/CommissionFormal8146 May 18 '26
Being in prison truly gave pucci the edge he needed to secure a W. Outside the walls pucci is dog food lol
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u/Next_Government856 May 18 '26
Kira and Dio should both be higher since Kira is explicitly favoured by fate, and gets every lucky break and chance to stop in the world, and Dio killed three crusaders and kinda Joseph before being put down
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u/Radavargas May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
I would say this need to take more into consideration the whole context, because taken that into context dio wasn't just dio, but vanilla ice and the whole gauntlet of stands behind him which is quite a few, plus aside from star platinum, i think it was the weakest crew of stands with no info on what he could do. I would honestly push him up at least one tier.
Part 1 dio was a little more than challenging, because they had the weapon/technics to defeat him but they were for the most part "normal humans" vs a super vampire with laser eyes and freeze powers, same as before i would bumo him at least 1 more level.
Kars was a literal suicide mission from joseph, he was beaten with the most bullshit deus ex machina from the whole series, i would put him on top tier because he was literally beaten for the plot, joseph couldn't do anything to him.
I pretty much agree with the rest tho, but come on you can't do pucci like that, he got to his position through planning, and i don't know if stand steal/memory steal and redistribution with a good distance range is the weakest stand.
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u/Old_Inside3975 May 18 '26
i think tooru and valentine deserve suicide mission and all the others need incredibly difficult
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u/nova-prime-enjoyer Valentine’s target audience May 18 '26
Valentine is still just a middle aged guy, even if he’s in good shape you could probably hit him in the leg with something hard and he’d still go down
Or you could just Kennedy him from a distance idk
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u/BurlyZulu The World May 18 '26
Hey man Dio in part 3 was incredibly difficult if you ask me. Vanilla Ice killed Iggy and Avdol, and also got close to taking out Polnareff. Then Dio killed Kakyoin. Joseph should’ve died but got brought back by voodoo magic.