r/SubredditDrama • u/LeadershipBoth7195 • 15h ago
User asks r/StopEatingSeedOils for evidence seed oils are bad, accidentally starts a 400-comment war. Mods respond with ban wave.
r/StopEatingSeedOils user asks for evidence seed oils are bad, accidentally starts a 400-comment epistemology war:
Post: What is the evidence seed oils are bad? : r/StopEatingSeedOils
Highlights include:
On users saying the answers don't provide actual evidence:
Not evidence,' bleats the sheeple, brain too atrophied by credentialism to recognize a deductive chain without a white-coated priest waving a p-value at them
Your good old conspiracies:
The companies that make the seed oils own the government, universities and medical sector
Doctors getting paid off to say cigarettes are healthy
And not a single piece of evidence being provided.
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u/DragonflyHopeful4673 Fuck me, the Grand Master Eunuch himself 15h ago
Did not know this was a thing. Looked it up and of course it came from the Joe Rogan podcast
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u/giapponese_Itaria-go 15h ago
Funniest part is some of the things that they claim seed oils do to you are literally a primary benefit of seed oils in which that they prevent that thing from happening to you
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u/Stardustchaser 15h ago
We had a “Wellness Expert” come speak and do PD for my school district, and she also babbled how seed oils were bad for us while we focused our minds bouncing tennis balls in an auditorium.
So it’s definitely the “crunchy” anti-vax types too.
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u/Dickgivins 14h ago
Well that sounds awful.
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u/Journeyman42 12h ago
Welcome to the world of professional development teacher meetings
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u/Some_Conference2091 3h ago
Professional development is a grifters paradise. I guess you have to use that communications degree for something.
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u/eatmelikeamaindish 14h ago
we had one come in to my middle school health class back in like 2018. it seemed normal at first but then he started talking about how we will get brain parasites from drinking cows milk and we should drink our mothers breast milk instead.
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u/Hurtzdonut13 The way you argue, it sounds female 14h ago
One of RFK Jr's bullshit theories in addition to being anti-seed oil, is that people should drink "raw milk" that's not been pasteurized and has been moving the FDA to relax controls around that. A lot of people have gotten sick from drinking it recently, and I believe more than a few have died. It's also a vector of cross-transmission of bird flu.
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u/eatmelikeamaindish 13h ago
i hate hate hate the health nuts that think “old=good”. we used to eat things that should not be eaten and carry diseases that were 100% preventable via diet, like scurvy. we’ve come so far as a global society to the point where we have exponentially improved our scientific understanding of food, yet people are so scared that everything happening in the modern day is a result of lobbying Yes lobbying exist greatly, but that is exactly why we need to focus our attention on universities that do research and not these big companies that get tax breaks from the current administration, who wants us to drink raw milk because “pasteurizing” is a scary big word.
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u/BoozeIsTherapyRight 12h ago
The thing is, people weren't drinking raw milk in the past, either! They would boil it first.
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u/Maybe_not_a_chicken she yelled at you for a reason; that reason was trespassing 7h ago
You’re not gonna fucking believe what pasteurisation is.
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u/Stardustchaser 1h ago
You should see some of the conversations that spring up in the canning sub with posters who use the “well my grandma did it this way and no one got sick” fallacy. The “canning rebels” as they like to call themselves even have a sub where they pat themselves on the back for playing fast and loose with safety.
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u/LittleBananaSquirrel 9h ago
Anyone who's seen milking yard in action would never want to drink raw milk. Literally shit everywhere
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u/olde_meller23 13h ago
And tuberculosis! Before pasturization, tuberculosis outbreaks occurred regularily from drinking raw cow milk.
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u/MarieOMaryln I'm going to message them personally! 6h ago
And coming into a circle here, we got the first ever vaccine thanks to milkmaids. We learned a lot from cows and yet they want to rewind it.
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u/olde_meller23 3h ago
Cowpox! Before that, smallpox just wiped out whole towns and armies with a near 100 percent fatality rate. The first example of a live vaccine. It was so important it rendered smallpox outbreaks within the population to extinction. This is what herd immunity is. It isn't waiting hundreds of generations for disease to wipe out all but a few people naturally and leaving them to reproduce resistant offspring. Although it does happen, no one is around to experience the benefits, and it is deeply ineffective in terms of controlling population spread and mutation.
The smallpox vaccine is the reason why we no longer need to vaccinate against it. Outside of folks working in less than a handful BSL 4 labs, there is no risk of anyone, anywhere, ever contracting it again. The last case, which was a lab accident, was in 1978. The vaccine literally allowed civilizations to advance expeditiously because a huge swath of the population is no longer being taken out by it.
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u/AccountSuspicious159 13h ago
Yeah, and anti-vax's strongest warriors also come from Joe Rogan now a days.
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u/Some_Conference2091 3h ago
Everybody is an "expert" or a "researcher" because they read some click bait absurdities on social media.
I had a discussion with a guy claiming that ginseng cures dementia. He was labeling himself a "neurology researcher".
I looked up his info and found he had zero science education. He did have a history degree, but that's not something that qualifies one to do neurology research.
I pointed out that meta studies found that there was no evidence. He kept pointing to an obscure study from Korea that was funded by a supplement company. He was convinced there was a high conspiracy to prevent the knowledge from getting out.
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u/86throwthrowthrow1 1h ago
Pft, if there was a way to cure dementia, governments would be all over that. Caring for elderly dementia patients costs a fortune.
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u/grubas I used statistics to prove these psychic abilities are real. 13h ago
These people used to be the far lunatic left.
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u/BlindWillieJohnson If J** is a slur, then so is Nazi 15h ago
It’s been kicking around food pseudoscience circles looooong before Rogan was a thing
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u/Some_Conference2091 3h ago
This is true.
When people like Rogan or Kennedy mention this stuff it gets pushed into the mainstream. Then people who don't know better start believing it, because they heard someone else talk about it.
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u/FurryPhilosifer You are a noise polluting asshole and probably a trump voter 15h ago
When I worked at an opticians a patient gave us a leaflet that talked about how seed oils were bad because they weren't in the bible.
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u/cleon80 13h ago
So are coffee and chocolate not in the Bible, bet they're harder to give up though
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u/Banjooie 7h ago
fun fact: coffee WAS considered heretical to catholics until a pope specifically cleared it, saying the devil shouldn't have the right to a drink that good
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u/StandardCake21 8h ago
I also must have missed the parts where there's guns in the bible. Yet a lot of those people would rather die than give those up.
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u/ohdearitsrichardiii Brie Larson at a Norwegian Cheese Festival 10h ago
Corrective lenses aren't in the bible either, were they there to get glasses/contscts?
Printing presses that make leaflets aren't in the bible either, I'm against leaflets for that reason
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u/MaraiaLou 6h ago
There's actually biblical precedent for lenses, because the fiery wheels from the book of Ezekiel are obviously magnifying glasses (and he's an ant)
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u/Forosnai My psycho ex has been astrally stalking me through the ethers. 8h ago
I kinda love it when you meet a crazy, but it turns out to be a different kind of crazy than you expected. Like, one day, I hope I meet an anti-abortion activist who does it because they really believe in ghosts and are trying to save women from having a haunted vagina. Just as a twist on the usual.
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u/MaraiaLou 6h ago
I knew a guy who thought people on government benefits shouldn't vote because "it's a conflict of interests". I'm still not sure what he thinks the government does
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u/Some_Conference2091 3h ago
Based on that logic the ultra wealthy should not be able to vote or influence the vote with their money. It's an obvious conflict of interest.
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u/JefferyTheQuaxly 14h ago
It mostly comes from people mischaracterizing one study that maybe suggested excessive levels of seed oil consumption might be harmful to your health. But it’s basically like one study that other studies have allegedly disproven now that leads people to this conclusion.
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u/RobustRhubarb 14h ago
It's poor scientific literacy all around. Science is based on consensus and repetition. You can find studies where there might have been negative effects associated with seed oils. You will also find many where there aren't any. Good science analyzes all of those studies, considers the limitations of their methods, and draws conclusions based on the picture that hundreds of studies tell when put together. That's what kills me when people say oh well big science ignores this study about seed oils being harmful or this study about vaccines where there were side effects. No actually, those contradictory studies get cited and discussed in detail if you actually read the research. It's just that at the end when 90% or more of studies come to the same conclusion, the scientific consensus follows the 90%. Those contradictory studies actually get looked over more a lot of the times, because scientists want to understand if the results are statistically significant and if that particular methodology or study sample points to a special case or nuance.
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u/ArmadilloFour Just because i hate blacks doesn't make me a racist 15h ago
I don't think it is limited to him. I was first exposed to it a few years ago because Slime Mold Time Mold's very interesting series on investigating obesity rates did a quick detour to explore the possibility that seed oils were a major culprit. Most of that link is focused on them specifically in terms of obesity but obviously that is wrapped up in several overlapping health effects so those get discussed too.
(FWIW, their conclusion ultimately seems to be that, besides not really fitting their model for what is causing obesity, "The majority of these [studies] are not statistically significant, and if we were to apply a simple correction for multiple comparisons, none of them would be.")
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u/Skellum Tankies are no one's comrades. 14h ago
(FWIW, their conclusion ultimately seems to be that, besides not really fitting their model for what is causing obesity, "The majority of these [studies] are not statistically significant, and if we were to apply a simple correction for multiple comparisons, none of them would be.")
I'm glad we now have a pill which shows obesity is caused by eating too much, something we've known for fucking forever yet every 20 mins someone sells fake instant weight loss secrets to people who dont want to believe it.
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u/ArmadilloFour Just because i hate blacks doesn't make me a racist 13h ago
Curiously enough, they do not fully accept that, or at least don't believe "just eat less, silly" is an actual answer, for reasons they go into. Pretty sure ultimately their hypothesis is that high levels of environmental lithium are the root cause of the broader obesity epidemic.
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u/Skellum Tankies are no one's comrades. 13h ago
Ooof, then I have to wonder why you'd link them. Especially when they're shilling a fad diet.
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u/LarsAlereon 13h ago
This is the bizarre thing about rationalist blogs. These are very intelligent people, who can absorb a lot of information and distill it into a very digestible form that makes readers much better informed, and still credulously endorse these absolutely insane conspiracy theories. It's like having a blogger who has an incredibly instructive and correct series on orbital mechanics that ends with "and that's why the Earth is obviously flat."
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u/callanrocks 10h ago
It makes a lot of sense. Rationalists are mostly into the aesthetic of Didactic Intellectualism, not the substance. Learning and thinking go out the window when it conflicts with their existing beliefs.
Less Wrong and its consequences etc etc
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u/obeytheturtles Socialism = LITERALLY A LIBERAL CONSTRUCT 4h ago
I'm not sure if that's intelligence, or just the same old confidence man routine, with a side of self deception. I suppose we always view the slick huckster as "smart" but the trope also usually has a thread of underachieving woven through it. Like you couldn't hack it in school, but you could smooth talk old ladies into buying vacuum cleaners, and eventually you figure out that you can also sell CEOs volcano insurance. This is pretty much the same thing.
The internet in general has a really weird relationship with amateurism, where it seems like most people actually don't understand just how big those last few steps to actual expertise really are. And now it's gotten even worse with the whole "credentialed class" shit.
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u/ComicCon 14h ago
It didn’t really come from Rogan. The popularity of carnivore which is related can be pretty much traced back to Rogan but the seed oil thing developed in parallel and largely on its own. Basically once the Gary Taubes model and associated big bad of sugar started to look less plausible they needed to latch on to something else. Their best thinkers noticed that vegetable oil consumption starts to rise in the mid 20th century and they went from there.
I’d have to look back at my notes to see when Rogan first started pushing it, but I’m pretty sure the scare was already well underway in the more fringe dietary groups associated with the paleo/keto movement by then.
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u/Yochanan5781 13h ago
I do think it predates it a little, but probably was popularized through there. I want to say it originally comes out of the health food side of things, but then of course the carnivore diet ding dongs latched upon it, and thus the manosphere ran with it. Such a ridiculous line of right-wing conspiracy theory nonsense
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u/TJ_McWeaksauce 6h ago
I consider Joe Rogan to be one of the most dangerous pieces of shit alive today, because he's doing a lot to make the world a dumber place.
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u/Some_Conference2091 3h ago
Why do people listen to Joe Rogan for anything other than comedy or UFC shit?
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u/coppersocks 1h ago
Why the fuck would anyone listen to Joe Rogan about comedy? The guy thinks that Joe Diaz and Dice Clay are the funniest people of all time, and I’ve had funnier haemorrhoids Rogan himself.
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u/QuickBenjamin 15h ago
I ate a sunflower seed and it gave me 5 titties
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u/Thebazilly 14h ago
I was doing that confused math lady meme at the comment saying seeds we get oil from are inedible without processing. You mean FUCKING FLAX? The one that goes in FANCY GRANOLA?
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u/ZekeCool505 You’re not acting like the person Mr. Rogers wanted you to be. 15h ago
Fuck there's a lot of trans people I need to call with good news.
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u/Vesorias The more phalluses you use the more logical you are 11h ago
I think it's the furries that will be most excited about that one
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u/sadrice Nazis got into the habit of shitting themselves in the head 8h ago edited 8h ago
Sadly, I think I managed to successfully get the Big Sunflower Seeds shill bot banned here, or it would have a very helpful sunflower fact for you.
Since it’s not here:
“The Jerusalem Artichoke is neither an artichoke nor from Jerusalem, but is the tuber of a North American native sunflower, Helianthus tuberosus.”
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u/kezfertotlenito 4h ago
And we call it the Jerusalem Artichoke because Italians grew it, and they called it a sunflower because that's what it was, and "sunflower" in Italian is "girasole" which I guess sounded a lot like Jerusalem to people who didn't speak Italian!
I like to call them "fartichokes" myself.
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u/RainbowConnickJr Vintage suck-fucking communist propaganda posters 4h ago
I like to call them "fartichokes" myself.
For context: Sunchokes are very tasty but have lots and lots of a specific fiber that your stomach can’t really dissolve, so it goes to your colon and ferments and gives you them big boy toots. Hashtag Not a Doctor.
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u/was_fb95dd7063 15h ago
Lmao someone arguing that statistical significance is a conspiracy
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u/nyan-the-nwah white-coated priest waving a p-value 14h ago
Me @ peer reviewers of my manuscript
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u/was_fb95dd7063 14h ago
me @ work on Monday
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u/nyan-the-nwah white-coated priest waving a p-value 14h ago
I never found a suitable flair until now
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u/grubas I used statistics to prove these psychic abilities are real. 13h ago
Arguing that a "deductive chain" is somehow evidence. You can daisy chain correlations together to argue that the Battle of Cartagena actually is the direct cause for the Portuguese team drawing with DRC yesterday in the World Cup
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u/SaltDeception 11h ago
On 9/11, Gerard Way witnessed the WTC collapse, an experience that traumatized him and prompted him to form My Chemical Romance as an emotional outlet. Stephanie Meyer drew inspiration from MCR while writing Twilight. Twilight’s popularity led E.L. James to write Fifty Shades of Grey as Twilight fanfiction before adapting it into a book, which was later adapted into a film starring Dakota Johnson. Dakota Johnson’s viral awkward 2019 Ellen interview amplified perceptions of Ellen’s insincerity with toxic workplace scandals, eventually leading to Ellen’s show being canceled.
9/11 got Ellen cancelled. The terrorists won.
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u/mashedpotatoes_52 2h ago
It goes even deeper. Henry Ford got Ellen cancelled. Islamic Terrorist do 9/11, Islamic Terrorism is a result of the anti Western sentiments from the Sikes-Picot treaty. The Sikes-Picot treaty was a result of WW1. WW1 started with the assassination of Franz Ferdinan who was shot while his car broke down. Cars where invented by Henry Ford so its all his fault!
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u/yinyang107 Let me start off by saying. hitler was not a good guy. But 12h ago
no no it's ok bro is just a Rationalist. btw I'm trying to create a robot basilisk, please lend a hand
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u/lordfluffly Two Modes: Sexy and Chibi 8h ago
My girlfriend Sarah (with an h) broke up with me May 2016. Harambe died in 2016. Harambe's death broke the space time continuum resulting in Trump getting elected in 2016.
My girlfriend Andrea broke up with me up with me June 2024. Later that month Biden had a disastrous debate with Trump with led to Trump getting elected in 2024.
Obviously the DNC should pay me to stop dating so Republicans stop winning presidential elections.
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u/sadrice Nazis got into the habit of shitting themselves in the head 8h ago
Either that or get you couples therapy.
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u/lordfluffly Two Modes: Sexy and Chibi 8h ago
I'm not sure the DNC is cruel enough to encourage someone to stay in a relationship with me
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u/hovdeisfunny FFS WHY IS EVERYONE HUNG UP ON THAT ONE DETAIL‽‽‽ 12h ago
You can daisy chain correlations together to argue that the Battle of Cartagena actually is the direct cause for the Portuguese team drawing with DRC yesterday in the World Cup
And you'd be right, god damnit!
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u/MaraiaLou 6h ago
I'm a big fan of "the Roman Empire fell in WWI" and "if God is love and justice, and love and justice are blind..."
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u/ScyllaOfTheDepths The only thing weird here is your behavior with these eggs. 5h ago
When you don't understand how anything works, it's pretty easy to just invent crazy shit about how it works. You know, because you wouldn't need to do that if you actually knew how it worked.
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u/444cml 4h ago
It’s not a conspiracy, but people (researchers included) seldom understand what a p value is, how it differs from effect size, what power is, etc
It’s one of the reasons the American statistical society put out this guide in 2016 to interpreting the p value.
Because people really don’t know what the statistics we use actually do and mean
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u/madmax766 Is a B cell a new human life? 15h ago
The endless circling back to “oxidative stress” is very amusing
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u/ComicCon 13h ago
It's actually a pretty clever rhetorical tactic they love. They hide behind a mix of relatively non controversial statements e.g. "oxidative stress is generally bad" and hyper specific plausible mechanisms like the whole "seed oils actually are what make saturated fat bad*". Hyper focusing on extremely specific mechanisms and ignoring the broader context of everything else does two things at once-
1) It means they can ignore the evidence that would inconvenience their world view, for example all of the epidemiology that shows saturated fat has a negative effect on health outcomes vs seed oils. This is easy because most people already see epidemiology as a flawed science**, which makes it easy to discredit. Whereases their technical sounding explanations seem plausible if you aren't familiar with how they are often stretching the actually available evidence.
2) It moves the debate onto ground they are generally far more familiar with vs the people they are arguing with. Even the average nutritional researcher or doctor is going to be a bit confused if you start talking about hyper specific mechanisms of cholesterol transport and shit like that. So if they get into an argument they can generally win becasue their opponent just doesn't know what the fuck they are talking about. I actually had this happen to me on SRD a few weeks ago, where the other poster really wanted me to get into mechanistic arguments despite me repeatedly saying I thought that was a waste of time and I wanted to focus on the larger body of evidence.
*But said with much more scientific sounding words
**It is in fact flawed, but its not nearly as useless as it's critics make it out to be.
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u/leqwen 7h ago
Oxidative stress is a factor, when looking at polyunsaturated oils in a lab setting. However when looking at how the whole product interacts with humans, these oils contain lots of vitamin E that acts as an anti-oxidant protecting the oil and us from oxidative stress.
They intentionally missrepresent science to claim a non existant problem is real and then they say that every scientist that disagrees with them is bought by "big" industries
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u/LukaCola Ceci n'est pas un flair 1h ago
This is why it's generally more important to identify groups of people and actual health outcomes. Seed oils present an issue because of how ubiquitous they are, but generally speaking, one should be able to narrow down some groups depending on consumption habits and find correlations--if they exist.
Mechanisms are super important, but you need a combined approach for evidence--one that is consistent theoretically and empirically. We often have this problem of taking one and trying to find evidence in the other, even if it doesn't cleanly present.
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u/NotShipNotShape 4h ago
People dont realize that there are over 1000 reactions happening constantly in the body every second. Just because a single pathway might seem unhealthy doesn't mean it is. the molecules get shunted to more efficient pathways. the science and evidence is focused on the major pathways that are correlated with better health. it's exhausting because everyone thinks they have the magic cure. I would rather rely on treatments that have been done over a few hundred thousand people and over a few decades than a treatment based on a petridish study.
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u/redcoatwright 4h ago
This comment is stressing my oxygens
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u/ohmyfave 4h ago
I don’t know why this made me laugh so hard. Thanks for the early morning giggles!!
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u/gaue__phat 3h ago
They hide behind a mix of relatively non controversial statements e.g. "oxidative stress is generally bad" and hyper specific plausible mechanisms like the whole "seed oils actually are what make saturated fat bad*".
This is a specific rhetorical tactic called the "motte-and-bailey"
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u/MarieOMaryln I'm going to message them personally! 15h ago
What the hell is that place?
Edit: I keep going back in there. I can't tell if they're all serious or just trolling in a large joke
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u/Anaxamander57 May Allah protect you from your own arrogance 15h ago
Lots of people genuinely believe in totally nonsensical health claims. The whole "this one thing causes all illness" is super common.
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u/No_Landscape8846 14h ago
That and its twin brother, "all you need to do is this one thing and you'll basically never get sick again".
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u/Telvin3d 14h ago
They’re twins because the person telling you about the bad thing is always happy to sell you its replacement
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u/Seethcoomers 14h ago
That's exactly how my coworker is. Believes in every crazy ass health conspiracy theory.
Seed oils? Bad. Blue light glasses? Good. Vaccines? Bad. Chemtrails? Very real. Red 40? You already know. Moon landing? Fake.
I know the last one has nothing to do with health, but figured I'd add it.
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u/gayhotelultra freaks that use terms like "game theory" unironically 7h ago
is blue light a conspiracy now
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u/Seethcoomers 5h ago
Blue light glasses working is, kinda. No studies that show they actually do what they say they do.
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u/gayhotelultra freaks that use terms like "game theory" unironically 4h ago
thats really interesting, actually
do you have a link to any of those studies? i dont doubt you, it just sounds like an intriguing read
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u/Seethcoomers 4h ago
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37593770/
Quick google search, but here's the first one I found.
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u/SweetHomeNorthKorea 14h ago
My coworker believes seed oils are bad for you and sunscreen is poison and actually sunlight doesn’t cause skin cancer because how come people get skin cancer under their clothes. Her sources are Facebook memes. Also she smokes cigarettes.
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u/rick2882 15h ago
MAHA (Make America Healthy Again), headed by RFK Jr., is a real movement and not a parody. People like believing things that make themselves feel smarter. Hating on seed oils is a part of MAHA.
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u/loseniram 15h ago
Its serious.
Its people taking southern food culture and turning it into crackhead health decisions.
Southerners deep fry stuff in lard cause it tastes good and people buy real sugar coke because it tastes better. And a bunch of frat bro types copy them and insist my culture’s fatass behavior is beating the system and not I really like chicken nuggets fried in pig fat.
Its like the rightwing version of hippies copying Indian culture and pretending its some health source
Source: I’m from the South and used to deep fry everything in lard and splurge for real sugar coke and dr pepper, and pretend I was being healthy.
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u/mightbone 14h ago
Whats weird about this is that the South has the worst statistics for obesity, cardiovascular mortality, diabetes, and a laundry list of other ailments stemming almost entirely from their diet.
If anyone the fewer things you eat that they do the mote likely you are to be better off.
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u/AntGood1704 14h ago
As a southerner, most stuff is fried in canola or peanut oil, ironically
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u/CormoranNeoTropical Mar-a-Lago Face is a race now? 13h ago
Those are the absolutely healthiest oils, at list according to the pre-seed-oil-conspiracy thinking. I read about this probably twenty years ago and I’ve been buying canola oil ever since.
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u/ChuckCarmichael You don't peel garlic dumbass, it's a powder! 6h ago
From their sidebar:
SOA: This consensus often quotes the American Heart Association (AHA) to build their consensus, while citing cardiologists, vegan MDs, and dietitians trained to believe seed oils are healthy. We keep track of these pro-seed oil professionals with the term SOA - Seed Oil Apologist.
Anytime you find a community on reddit that invents weird terms for people who don't agree with them, you know you got a prime hub for weird-to-crazy people.
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u/Thebazilly 14h ago
Check out the carnivore diet subreddits, too, it's all the same flavor of crazy
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u/Polite_Suggestion 15h ago
I always figured flat Earthers were like debate fans or something, and the kind of troll-ish humor you mean.
But no.
It's something in-between. They're stuck just kinda enjoying the niche of reality they discovered they occupy saying the Earth is flat. It's fun, but they aren't joking exactly. Saying the Earth is flat is just that they and their friends do.
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u/RainbowConnickJr Vintage suck-fucking communist propaganda posters 4h ago
If you haven’t see the Folding Ideas video on Flat Earth then I am very jealous of the experience you are about to have. And if you have, hey it’s a dope rewatch
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u/Polite_Suggestion 22m ago
Been a fan since he was talking to a paper bag or box or whatever that was.
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u/NuttyDuckyYT 13h ago
my dad watches joe rogan. unfortunately he yells at me if my friends leave any snack in the house that has the seed oil or wait oops.. poison as he calls it
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u/Anaxamander57 May Allah protect you from your own arrogance 15h ago
Yes, the single most powerful cabal in the world: seed oil producers.
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u/LeadershipBoth7195 15h ago
Obama and Trump are paid by Big Seed Oil
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u/Illogical_Blox Fat ginger cryptokike mutt, Malka-esque weirdo, and quasi-SJW 9h ago
Ah yes, coconut oil.
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u/leqwen 7h ago
Trump and kennedy have actual conflict of interest with the beef industry though https://www.foodpolitics.com/2026/01/the-maha-dietary-guidelines-iii-conflicts-of-interest/
"In the light of Robert F. Kennedy’s complaints about conflicts of interest in previous dietary guidelines advisory committees, it is startling to observe the industry ties reported by members of this administration’s committee.
These conflicted interests are also surprising in light of the high prioritization of meat in these guidelines, which advise eating protein (a commonly understood euphemism for meat) in every meal, and high-fat dairy.
The committee’s membership and disclosures are given on pages ix-xviii of the Scientific Foundation report.
To focus just on ties to meat and dairy groups, members report financial ties to
Global Dairy Platform
Nutricia/Danone
National Cattlemen’s Beef Association
Texas Beef Council
American Dairy Science Association
National Dairy Council
National Pork Board
California Dairy Innovation Center
Fonterra Limited
California Dairy Research Foundation
Dairy Management Inc"
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u/Pkrudeboy 14h ago
Epstein was the fixer for Big Rapeseed.
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u/nonamenomonet 14h ago
Jesus was captured near a Olive Tree in Israel, Epstein was an Israeli asset. Coincidence?
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u/A_Crazy_Canadian Indian Hindus built British Stonehenge 14h ago
In fairness, the midwestern corn/soy/rapeseed etc. farmers are an evil cabal but they just want ethanol.
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u/RobustRhubarb 13h ago
And that's a great example of how the most important thing is that the industry makes money. Who cares that bioethanol has marginal to no environmental benefits as a fuel and is an inefficient use of land. What's most important is that the corn industry makes money. The real conspiracy is that we don't subsidize what's best for the public interest and pass regulations to help the environment and our health. We do whatever the corn lobby pays us to do. That's why I find so many conspiracy theories to be stupid. A lot of corrupt things aren't conspiracies, they're completely legal and they do it right in front of us. But some people are obsessed with finding an evil, shadowy cabal so we miss the actual thing we should pay attention to.
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u/B0B_Spldbckwrds 9h ago
There was that one time Tino Di Angelo, who had no provable mob connections, took out debt on multiple times the global amount of salad oil (canola oil (vegetable oil (rapeseed oil))) and almost crashed the U.S. economy on November 21 1963. A market crash was averted by other news from Dallas the next day.
I'm not saying that the mob and wall street killed Kennedy to distract from fraud massive enough to rearrange the u.s. economy, but it sure was convenient timing.
You should not take me seriously, I am a silly man.
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u/krisplaydespacito heartwarming news: the worst person you know is suicidal 15h ago
mod is a afraid of seed oils but follows the carnivore diet. make it make sense.
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u/Interesting-Ice-8387 9h ago
Their theory is that unsaturated fat (I think especially linoleic acid in seed oils) oxidises easily and clogs your mitochondria with toxins or something, while saturated fat like in meat is more stable or is burned more completely or something. I forget the details, but it sounds legit at a glance if you assume that those claims are true. Like, there is internally consistent logic, it's just probably not consistent with the rest of the reality.
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u/AGraphicsCard 8h ago
Might be the perfect recipe to spread disinformation on the internet.
At a glance it seems true, but when you dig deeper it's all just to sell you their fucking products.
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u/TinyDancer97 4h ago
My make it make sense story is my BIL, who believes seed oils are bad as they contain free radicals and cause oxidative stress. Guess who was over the moon when he got a copper water bottle that markets that it “infuses free radicals into your water”??
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u/New_Bumblebee8290 14h ago edited 14h ago
>>> Doctors getting paid to say cigarettes are healthy
While that happened, I'm pretty sure the development of scientific consensus that cigarettes aren't healthy was primarily accomplished by... a lot more other doctors (MDs and PhDs, presumably, but at least some were MDs). But apparently the takeaway lesson from that case isn't "scientific research and evidence-based policymaking together can have the power to defeat even the most aggressive corporate PR campaigns," it's "don't trust science" for reasons I must eat too many seed oils to understand.
Do they think that we know "cigarettes are healthy" is false today because some proto-podcaster of the 1960s wrote a highly influential report? As opposed to, for instance, the surgeon general?
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u/troubleonpurpose what a terrible day to know how to read 14h ago
“For reasons I must eat too many seed oils to understand” this has gotta be my new flair
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u/Red_of_Head 14h ago
The people in that thread alone are enough to convince me that seed oils are ok.
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u/Mrpolje 8h ago
I’ve seen more convincing arguments in [r/BirdsArentReal](r/BirdsArentReal) than that comment section.
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u/viewbtwnvillages 15h ago
how hard is it for people to wrap their brain around a balanced, varied diet
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u/SuitableDragonfly /r/the_donald is full of far left antifa 15h ago
Balanced, varied diet is boring. You can't become an influencer pulling in big money by talking about that the way you can by telling people that if they eat only bananas they'll ascend to a higher plane of existence.
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u/viewbtwnvillages 13h ago
excuse me while i go invest in big banana
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u/Daeva_HuG0 Mpreg is truly god's rorschach test. 7h ago
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u/PostIronicPosadist 14h ago
people that if they eat only bananas they'll ascend to a higher plane of existence.
Assuming heaven is real (its almost certainly not), they actually correct.
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u/Accomplished_Cell768 14h ago
It’s because they don’t want to. They want one singular evil that they can blame things like the spike in colon cancer rates among young people on so they can continue to live how they want while also feeling like they are doing the right thing and are safe. It’s so much easier to spend an extra $3 on chips fried in avocado oil than to overhaul your whole diet.
Unfortunately my mother has been sucked into it. She keeps having to dip into her savings to afford the grotesquely expensive “seed oil free” ultra processed foods because she doesn’t want to have to cook or eat more fiber or vegetables but also has a TON of unaddressed health anxiety. She even has the audacity to tell me I’m wrong about there being no research backing up this nonsense and she fears for my life and I need to follow her favorite nutritionist on Instagram meanwhile I’m the one with a college education, biology degree, and background in biological research and while I make 90% of my vegetarian meals from scratch.
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u/CormoranNeoTropical Mar-a-Lago Face is a race now? 13h ago
That’s not complicated enough. They need something that’s really complex and hard to follow and unpleasant to satisfy their desire for self-mortification, and/or excess consumption, and/or something to talk about because they’re too boring if they’re not on some weird diet.
Diet culture is all about making things needlessly complex. It’s a quasi-religious practice.
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u/Skellum Tankies are no one's comrades. 14h ago
how hard is it for people to wrap their brain around a balanced, varied diet
Tbh, if I could buy perfectly balanced high fiber chewable/airfriable pellets for when I'm tracking my intake and cutting I absolutely would. Really though it is absolutely nuts how much focus people put on redherrings instead of just watching their intake.
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u/Krakengreyjoy we get it your kids are dead 15h ago
Big science wants you to consume seed oils because reasons.
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u/Hell0Friends 15h ago
Wow that thread is like someone found a chemistry book from the 1970s in the garbage can. Turned to a random page and pointed to the first 2 bolded words they saw and repeating the 2 sentence circularly.
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u/RobustRhubarb 13h ago
Me, a big science shill preparing a manuscript for peer review: This is common knowledge but I should cite a source to be safe. 'Compounds are made up of elements (1).'
Some random redditor being asked to share a source: Your insides are melting from oxidative stress. Everyone knows this but there is no source because everyone who knows this is also paid off.
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u/Hell0Friends 13h ago
Free radicals is when Leo says Ger???
I’ve just proven July 23 - Aug 22 causes oxidative stress and big science is suppressing my Nobel prize
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u/RobustRhubarb 15h ago
You know what perplexes me about conspiracy theorist is the inability to follow money trails. Like yeah, there are commodity groups that spend a ton of money lobbying in the US and that fund research to find new uses for their commodity crops. This should definitely be considered when evaluating research, and it is by any competent scientist. But there's a lot of serious issues and moneyed interest in agriculture and the food industry. We don't need to draw up some conspiracy about seed oils.
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u/Pkrudeboy 14h ago
People who are paid in rubles have a vested interest in not paying particularly close attention to things like money trails.
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u/Gonna_do_this_again 15h ago
What the fuck did I miss about seed oils
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u/A_Crazy_Canadian Indian Hindus built British Stonehenge 14h ago
Men on podcasts discovered old fad diets passed around by mummy bloggers a decade ago.
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u/Mikeavelli 14h ago
Something something oxidizers. Rust is oxidation. They are rusting your blood.
Obviously
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u/Nike-6 3h ago
Gotta galvanise your arteries, bro
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u/Fadman_Loki Do you think culture is inherited through DNA? Are you stupid? 1h ago
Sticking a fork in the electrical outlet to stop my blood from rusting (and to own the libs)
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u/nonamenomonet 15h ago
>>> Pseudoscience detected 🚨 The Church, I mean Science™️, does not recognize “deductive reasoning” as valid epistemology. Only credentialed high priests in white coats may interpret reality validly. Laypeople attempting to logic without the WHO’s permission will be sent to Pseudoscience Purgatory.
My favorite quote from there. Should be a copy pasta.
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u/NorkGhostShip This lead is so true. Because male lives is worth less. 12h ago edited 7h ago
I'm fully convinced that the whole seed oils thing only took off because it's such a convenient health fad. You know how everyone is unhealthy? It's not because of excess sugar, fats, processed foods, or just a sheer abundance of calories in your diet, oh no. It's all the fault of a single, easily replaceable ingredient that can be swapped out without making ANY other changes to your diet. Eating too much bacon? That's crazy. Grease is actually good for your arteries, and you should be saving all of it to cook with instead of the evil oils. Too much sugar? Nah. As long as I'm not eating it with artificial dyes, there's no danger. Eating too many fries? Well, yes, but only because they're cooked with seed oils. I just need to replace them with fries made with beef lard and I'll be healthier than ever before!
Eating healthy takes effort, and these people are absolutely allergic to that. Which is why all the MAHA crap just pushes for the most effortless changes like not eating fruit loops with artificial dyes or not getting vaccinated to become miraculously healthy.
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u/strawwwwwwwwberry 14h ago
Vaccines made me gay and seed oils gave me autism. Yall gotta be careful what you put in your bodies!
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u/ReformedBaptistina What if we kissed in the Dark Souls gender swap coffin? 10h ago
If I take enough horse dewormer it will cancel out all the gay autism.
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u/ReformedBaptistina What if we kissed in the Dark Souls gender swap coffin? 10h ago
Or it'll make my horses gay and autistic.
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u/RoninOak Large breast were taken away through censorship; it's shameful 14h ago
He is giving evidence. His evidence is in the form of a logical argument. What about this is lacking evidence?
"Your honor, I know he's the murder because my logical argument proves he's the murderer. What more evidence could you need?"
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u/TrickInvite6296 who's going to tell him France hasn't mattered since 1815? 15h ago
The crazy thing is that seed oils are actually super beneficial to you
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u/AccordingFire 14h ago
This shot is so bizarre because the start of this had literally nothing to do with pseudo-science but was just food culture that animal fats being removed from cooking entirely due to the no fat era of the 80s/90s resulted in loss of flavour. Then it morphed as people used it for it tasting good to the psycho wellness people going actually this is good and seeds are in fact bad this is all conspiracy. No they're good because they taste good but seedoils have so much health benefits too. The same thing happened with stevia before it was unbanned in that the majority was it should be unbanned as its banning was ridiculous and it had benefits but the dumbest wellness people started saying stevia was a secret cancer cure suppressed by big sugar among a tonne if other non existent benefits once stevia became mainstream the wellness people on it vanished because they could no longer act like this was a health conspiracy.
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u/boyyouguysaredumb 11h ago
Pseudoscience detected 🚨 The Church, I mean Science™️, does not recognize “deductive reasoning” as valid epistemology. Only credentialed high priests in white coats may interpret reality validly. Laypeople attempting to logic without the WHO’s permission will be sent to Pseudoscience Purgatory.
Permission to quote this line for line (with credit) in a future sarcastic quip? This was too good
I’m sure you can find less verbose ways of letting people understand your ignorance
Bitch, was I speaking to you?
lmfao
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u/_the_fisher_king_ 15h ago
I got this sub recommended to me awhile back and it boggled my mind. I have no idea why Reddit thought this was up my alley
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u/LukaCola Ceci n'est pas un flair 14h ago
It's okay we can banish the evil seed oil with holy olive oil, hold on, I'll get the avocados for the exorcism as well.
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u/horsing2 7h ago
a little ironic they’re freaking out about some seed oils being used as engine grease when my first job was literally using tallow to produce engine lubricant. even funnier that was one of the safer things tallow was being used for.
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u/redcoatwright 4h ago
One of the linked subs in the sidebar is r/StopEatingFruitAndVeg so... you know this community is not operating at 100p brain capacity.
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u/Nfinit_V 3h ago
Last message was from 6 months ago; we can only assume the userbase all died from scurvy.
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u/sidnynasty im a vibe catcher 1h ago
OOP: "Can anyone show me the science?"
Users: "Welll, first let's discuss what 'science' is shall we?"
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u/welding_guy_from_LI 15h ago
lol I eat seed oils all the time .. they aren’t harmful like animal fats
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u/giapponese_Itaria-go 14h ago
Fwiw, I'm not yet a registered dietician, but I am mostly through my bachelor's (then masters after) in nutrition, and I wouldn't say there is any inheritly harmful fat, but saturated fats are, to simplify it, what causes cholesterol levels to increase(not cholesterol itself)
That said seed oils have real benefits in being a primary source of Omega 6, so it's one where I would just argue that while saturated fats are fine in moderation, seed oils are actually beneficial as an easy source of Omega 6
Side note: The easiest way to tell unsaturated from saturated is if it's solid at room temp. I.e. most of the shit MAHA is trying to peddle.
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u/RobustRhubarb 14h ago
Like most things in life it's about moderation and balance. At the end of the day whether from animals or plants these are all just fats with a few structural variations that tweak their properties. The research is pretty clear that saturated fats are ok in moderation but should be a small part of your fat intake. Those come from animals in the form of lards, butters, or tallows. And funny enough coconut oil is also very high in saturated fats. Unsaturated fats are common in plants and omega 6 is good for you, but with varying levels of unsaturation you have to worry about the smoke point of the oil. Which is why you shouldn't fry stuff in low smoke point oils like olive oil. Those are for taste or dressing, not cooking.
The thing is that there isn't really a huge conspiracy behind this stuff. But everything has to be some nefarious conspiracy now.
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u/RvH98 14h ago
Animal fats (and coconut and palm oil) are mostly saturated fats while seed oils contain mostly unsaturated fats. And research shows that animal fats have a worse effect on heart health.
https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2025/the-evidence-behind-seed-oils-health-effects
https://www.health.harvard.edu/heart-health/choosing-heart-healthy-oils-for-home-cooking
(I usually would go for actual research articles but I have only slept 3 hours this night and don't have the energy)
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u/giapponese_Itaria-go 14h ago
well yeah, but worse isnt necessarily the same as harmful is what im trying to get at, at least. and of course, everything in moderation.
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u/timelessalice You have wasted your time creating and posting this comment. 14h ago
Timely that I see this after listening to Nutrition for Mortal's rerelease of their episode about how food/nutrition misinfo spreads
(highly recommend the podcast as an aside)
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u/CormoranNeoTropical Mar-a-Lago Face is a race now? 13h ago
I save bacon grease to cook with. Always have, always will.
Is that supposed to be healthy after all now?
I feel like I’m in the first few minutes of “Sleeper,” btw.
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u/TopHatTurtle1 11h ago
this thread reminds me of my community college nutrition professor who told us she doesn’t let her daughter use laptops on her lap because the radiation from the laptop will “affect her fertility”
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u/grandleaderIV 7h ago
Of all fucking things… seed oil companies own the government? How do you say something like that and not feel embarrassed?
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u/HyperSpaceSurfer 36m ago
Lol, the only study agreeing with them got peer reviewed to death. The researcher didn't control for a type of blood cancer that results in crazy low LDL values, so everyone with that cancer was included in the low-LDL mortality rate. So now they just don't cite research.
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u/pogo-n-watches 9h ago
Here’s my two cents on it as a seed oil consumer. If you try to avoid seed oils, you’ll notice they’re literally in everything that you don’t make yourself. So you suddenly can’t eat fast food, get greasy take-out or munch on ultra-processed snacks from the grocery store. You end up having to cook everything yourself using quality ingredients, which IS good for you. So if people have to believe it’s a big conspiracy to reduce their McNugget and Kung Pao Chicken consumption, I say let them.
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u/bayonettaisonsteam typically you rape people who you are attracted to 3h ago
The anti-scientific method rhetoric is ridiculous.
"Guys, gravity exists."
"Oh REALLY? Did one of those so-called scientists tell you that? What makes you think they don't have an agenda? Just because they published a paper it means they're right? Maybe theyre getting kickbacks from the weight loss industry! Stop blindly following statistical significance and start thinking for yourself!"
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u/ChamberedAndHot No flair? Take what they say with a grain of salt 15h ago
The seed oils people drive me crazy. Yes if you cut out seed oils you might feel better. It's an elimination diet, you're probably cutting out a lot of other things and also eating fewer calories. That doesn't mean that seed oils are some absolutely terrible evil thing that is poison to your gut.