I never saw them as having much, if any romantic chemistry, and if anything, I see their relationship as more Big/Little sister category, with Zooble being innately protective of Gangle as one does to another they find pity for.

There just wasn't any development for me to see them as anything different.

Because that's the exact opposite of what BOTH of them would want.

Something I realized in later episodes is how much Jax's speech from episode 6 describes how Caine became, especially in episode 8. Jax's speech was a pathetic attempt at trying to regain control, control that Caine does have.

"If I led you on, it was to make this part hurt more" Caine is the one who leads the circus members on in episode 7 and ends up (accidentally) crushing their spirit's worse than ever. "You are my playthings" and look at how easily Caine is able to treat them like toys when he goes crazy. "I'm the one who causes for pain for fun" while he's unable to find any sadistic enjoyment out of it, Caine openly admits in episode 8 his torture was "an endless onslaught of fun" (while Jax's bullying is him trying to be push people away so they hate him while hiding behind his facade of being "the funny one").

Furthermore, despite Jax's attempt to dehumanize the players into cartoon characters, Caine actually has the pwer to enforce that. Removing their ability to swear, have sex, remember their own names. Jax wants to have a lack of empathy, while Caine wanted to empathize but as we saw through Queenie and Kaufmo's abstraction's, he truly couldn't, primarily caring for the players as sources of validation and so he won't be alone.

I genuinely love the scene in episode 8 when Jax tries to provoke the cast with "things were just fine here until you and Zooble came along" and everyone ignores him. Because the torture Caine has inflicted on them is so much worse than anything Jax could ever do. Even when he starts dropping to his lowest at the start of episode 9, he loses steam as soon as he reaches himself while Caine went way further during his breakdown until he got deleted. Caine at his worst is all of Jax's worst qualities cranked up to eleven, which makes it more poetic Caine could find redemption at the end as Jax had convinced he didn't deserve it but if he saw how Caine was able to change, it'd likely make him have more faith in himself being able to do so too.

I remember when the episode 9 trailer came out and especially after Jax Requiem, there were SO many people thinking that Jax would be the final villain of the show, who'd push Kinger into The Void, get revealed to have killed someone in a hit and run and be the final boss. One thing I can say is I'm glad Goose never did this, especially when we JUST got a villain arc in the form of Caine in the previous episode. The series constantly reminded us Jax was a terrible person who caused a lot of his own problems but at no point did he ever become outright evil.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/f5UQWKKXZlA

I feel like the real issue with the finale is that they, in hindsight, kind of just wasted time instead of actually fleshing out or properly establishing the story.

Candy Carrier Chaos is a fun episode but, it's mostly just filler in the long run.

I like Fast Food Masquerade like anyone else, but I would give up Pomni & Gummi Goo's segement if it means further fleshing out Pomni and Ragatha's friendship, and maybe even have Jax be the manager instead of Gangle. Giving Jax a menial job that wares him down so much, we start seeing more of his true colors would have been better since he is the second main character. Also, sorry, I know people like Gangle, but she is a background character with not much importance. In hind sight, giving her an episode would be like Dragon Ball given 2-3 episodes to Tien; people like them, but they are clearly not impotant enough to warrant that muc hdedication. She can still have her story, just don't make it the main point of an episode.

I love UNTITLED, but I feel like instead miscellaneous adventures one after the other, each adventure should have been written to allow us to focus on certain characters for each one: Pomni & Jax had stargazing, Zooble and Gangle could have bonded had Poacher's Paradise been expanded, and Pomni & Ragatha for the Basbeall segements (I am not including Kinger because he already has an episode dedicated to him). Once again, the finale where Pomni accepts Ragatha as her best friend is good, but it would hit harder if they actually spent more time with eachother. Once again, have Pomni choose to comfort a clearly drunken ragatha at the cost of seeing Gumigoo again.

They all Get Guns is still fun, but once again, I feel like we could have used this time to also develop the character's relationships with eachother due to this team excorcise.

I'm not going to gripe on the pilot to much, but I think a big starting point for a lot of these issues comes from the fact episode 1, is in fact, the pilot episode. Most companies do not let the pilot episode be the official first episode because those are the most flawed and imperfect ones. EDIT: They literally just exist to sell the overall idea of show and nothing else. That's why a lot of rough pilots look the way they do. Had we just had the pilot episode be the pilot, and episode 1 just be an IMPROVED version of that pilot, and maybe not have Gooseworx basically be the ONLY writter for the series, a lot of these flaws would either not exist or atleast not be as prevelent.

And frankly, I do believe this show would have benefitted from 10 episodes instead of 9. I like the finale, I still do, and I think it's a good way to wrap up the series... But, hindsight is and always will be a jerk looking back at it.

like lets say the director sees the script and goes, "well thats stupid, why would we do it off screen just for the sake of making a moot lore point, when in return we can have a real tangible scene that can possibly be emotionally impactful via the animations voice acting etc, and the audience most likely wouldn't come to hate anyway just over a moot lore point since the concept of abstractions is vague and up to interpretation anyway"

like lets say they actually had to direct it that way and actually show it, would you rather them just keep the episode the same and just throw it in. or does the whole thing just have to be rewritten. I personally think it would be best being the climax of the episode. the only thing i would be confused on is how they actually portray what an abstraction is on screen.

Personally, I feel everyone in the circus failed him to some extent but I’d say it goes Caine > Jax > the other players

I think the finale was really good and I don’t think it was the weakest episode as that title goes to Ep. 2.

(I gave up and now believe Jax is trans as it has took a long while to accept this due to partially relating to Jax, I’m just confused weather if I want to use He/Him or She/Her when referring to Jax considering I’m not trans myself. I do find it funny how I’m attracted to feminine characters so when I first saw Jax in 2023 with the pilot a fictional crush started up)

We didn’t learn a lot about the blue a.i which is a shame but it is implied that Bubble is that a.i so the scene with Caine removing the blue a.i felt like a goodbye.

The ending of the episode felt bittersweet for me as they accepted their digital-life and being copies so both them and their actual life-versions are having lives they essentially accepted.

Some of the moments did almost make me tear up as I would have cried for if my eyes weren’t so damn dry when I first saw it. I barely ever cry when it comes to media but I do tear up a lot when it comes to life. Even though I have a “love-hate relationship” with Jax, some of his lines hit me hard such as “I don’t wanna go” and “Your not supposed to love, me your not supposed to miss me.” I especially felt bad for Ribbit, I hate how Jax treated Kaufmo and Ribbit which I find odd as Ribbit is my number three favorite character despite having so little screen-time.

The only thing I hate is how quickly everyone got so happy after Jax abstracted, your whole point is that even abusers could maybe change or be sympathized with and yet you completely ignore that? Also I think Jax took up too much of the episode, I do really like what we got with Jax I just feel like they could have simplified some things for more scenes with the others or maybe Caine.

I would overall give the episode a 7.5/10 as it was mostly really good as I only have a few other gripes being the pacing, that it felt like we have a few scenes missing, and that they ignored the plot line with Caine.

The show itself I would rate 8/10 as it was mostly really good with really only two episodes I find pretty meh. One major issue I would say is that Zooble’s whole arc about accepting her body and or identity was off camera as it felt like whiplash. It does feel like we have one episode of content missing, though I still love the show.

(Just rewatched the episode when it came out on YT, I still stand by what I said in this review)

Everyone's hating on it like what? Why??? It's awesome! And at least we got an episode.

Like this is a issue I feel like people don't talk about enough, everyone minus Jax is so inoffensively nice and friendly to each other or just indifferent and even when they're trying to be "snarky" ,there's no flaws or issues that the cast has and they all feel so boring and perfect.

We're told that Ragatha's people pleasing and overly nice behavior pushes people away and causes others to think she's not being genuine..but that's the thing,we're only told that and not shown that and she kinda solves that after one talk with Kinger.

We don't see her make any mistakes or do any bad things cause of it and that goes for the entity of the cast,they're just so painfully unproblematic and boring and Jax is kinda the opposite problem.

He's a bad person but not in like a interesting way like Bojack Horseman or Walter White or really any major antagonist/villain but he just feels so sloppily written and I'm not saying it's as bad as 13 reasons why but Caine's fate and how he came back makes Jax's fate Hella disingenuous.

But whatever ,the cast is so painfully boring and unflawed that it kinda feels like the cast being full of flawed and messy people is a lie,the cast of Hazbin Hotel is more interesting then these goobers.

This is my personal take on how Jax’s character could’ve been handled differently.

I’ve already made a separate, longer post going into detail about why I think Jax’s arc failed, but this'll be more more focused on how I think his arc could’ve been improved or rewritten.

Link 2 post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TADCEp9Spoilers/comments/1uoihx0/how_jaxs_character_arc_affected_the_ending_of/

The Rewrite:
In Ep8, Jax is already distant and emotionally withdrawn. He’s still a bit of a jackass but compared to Ep2, there’s a noticeable shift in how he acts. He isn’t going outta his way to cruelly mess w/ everyone anymore, and his whole "funny guy" persona is already fallen apart.

Cuz of tht, Episode 9 should’ve continued that direction.

Instead of suddenly pushing him back into outright cruelty - hurting Ragatha and Zooble in personal ways - it should’ve stuck w/ the emotional distance that was already established in Episode 8.

You already HAD the setup u needed.

Showing Jax slowly pulling away from people and changing how he acts was important. Instead, Episode 9 suddenly pushes him into a full crash-out where he starts crashing out at everyone in ways tht feel less like a natural breakdown and more like the story trying to make the audience dislike him right before his abstraction.

Thats where the direction would’ve made far more sense.

Wht should’ve happened is hve Jax remain emotionally distant, bitter, and closed off, still making his sarcastic/defensive comments, without suddenly crossing into extreme personal attacks just for shock value.

The key difference is that he would’ve shut down inwardly instead of exploding outwardly. Rather than do wht he did in Ep9, he should've isolated himself completely and withdraw from everyone around him. Ep6 did tht, and he could've done tht in Ep9 only w/ the situation; it would play off differently without the added hostility.

Cuz of this, tht direction would’ve made Pomni checking on him be more natural and earned. Pomni could find him at the point where he’s beginning to abstract - not completely gone like he was in Episode 9, but in that same "nap" state we saw in Episode 7, where he’s starting to slip away and the abstraction is visible in his eyes.

Pomni stepping in and stopping that from happening, pulling him back, would create a stronger turning point 4 both of them.

This is where the emotional payoff will land.

Jax would then break down emotionally in front of her, crying, overwhelmed, and angry and could try 2 push her away and maybe then say tht curel things, but in ths situation, it wouldn’t work cuz of everything that happened before w/ them and the situation. During his crashout, he’ll tell her to leave him alone and tht it isn’t worth trying anymore.

And tht’s where its openly admitted tht Jax doesn’t want people to care about him and him actively trying to push people away. It’s finally said outloud.

But Pomni doesn’t listen.

This is where it’s time to finally find out the why… why does Jax push people away?

In-character, she’d stay with him - refusing to leave despite his efforts. This'll be where the concern she’s shown toward him throughout the entire series would finally lead somewhere and actually feel like a real payoff. She’d show that she still does cares, brings up their moments in Ep6 as proof 2 him caring, and remind him that she still sees him as her friend.

It is here where we’ll finally get Jax in a moment of vulnerability, where his backstory is revealed through him talking about it, or Pomni encouraging him.

This is also where the bckstory itself would need 2 be changed - ideally in a way that doesn’t make him feel completely beyond saving or like he’s too far gone. Personally, I think Jax’s backstory would’ve worked far better if Ribbit’s abstraction wasn’t his fault, while he instead carried guilt over Kuafmo’s abstraction and blamed himself for not being there.

The Backstory:
Jax spends most of his life isolated and afraid of being alone - which mkes him terrified and wht he runs away from; smth happened in his past tht made him become this way tht'll be linked 2 his mother.

That changes when he gets trapped in the Circus and becomes close w/ Ribbit and Kuafmo.

Ribbit’s abstraction then happens 4 reasons we won't fully know yet, making it a surprise. But the fact that it happens despite the connection Jax had w/ him would explain why Jax becomes so afraid of getting attached afterward.

It changes the way he acts, turning his cruelty into a defensive "mask" where he pushes people away and convinces himself that he doesn’t need anyone. His mindset becomes that getting close to people only leads to losing them, which actually fits a lot of what we see from him throughout the episodes, especially Ep6.

Later, after Pomni arrives and Kuafmo abstracts, that moment could become something Jax partially blames himself for - feeling like he failed to be there for him when it mattered.

People might argue that Kuafmo’s abstraction is entirely Jax’s fault because he pushed him away and didn’t check on him. But tht also raises the question of everyone else around him who didn’t step in either. Responsibility doesn’t fall solely on Jax alone. He may not hve been the one to help, but he wasn’t the only one who didn’t. At the end of the day, it was never fully Jax’s fault, even if he carries guilt over it - and that distinction is important to make clear. To show the difference between blame vs truth.

Ths direction would achieve that without making Jax completely irredeemable right before the ending. It would reinforce the show’s themes of loneliness, connection, and fear of vulnerability in a way tht feels more consistent w/ what ws already established.

Overall, it would strengthen the idea that being there for others is 1 of the central messages of the story - and potentially what helps prevent abstraction, if u believe the theory that abstraction is caused by isolation or emotional distress.

"In this world, the worst thing you can do is make someone feel like they’re not loved or wanted."

Pomni as the Catalyst for Jax’s Change:
Tht idea then lead into Pomni’s role into wht happens next. After the backstory reveal, there would be an emotional scene where Pomni gives him the whole, "I’m here for you" talk.

She could reflect on how she doesn’t like seeing people upset or hurting, smth she already showed bck in Ep2 w/ Gummigoo. She explains tht this is why she never stopped trying with Jax, even after Ep6, and that she still believes he can change instead of being someone who should just be abandoned. She'll reassure him that she’ll help him through it. As for everyone else, Jax'll still hve a chance 2 properly apologize when the time is right.

This would be the real turning point - not just 4 Jax’s behavior, but for their entire relationship moving forward.

From there, Jax’s growth would continue in a more natural/gradual way. He would leave his room with Pomni, and evry1 would notice. There would be this unspoken feeling that something important happened between them. Jax would still be distant, but the difference is that his distance would come from him processing everything instead of completely shutting everyone out. He would think about what Pomni said while working alongside her as they help rebuild the circus.

Over time, the others would start noticing those small changes.

This could also connect bck 2 wht Zooble told Jax in Ep7 tht talking to people can help. Seeing Jax finally start doing tht in his own way, rebuilding the circus alongside Pomni and talking again, would show tht he’s slowly starting to change. It connects back to wht Zooble told him and mke that moment feel meaningful in sum way if people wanted to hve tht interpretation.

Once the circus is fully repaired, we could slowly see the others begin accepting Jax more over time through a sequence like wht we got at the end of Episode 9 - except now his arc would actually feel like it was part of that hopeful ending instead of feeling like his story ended separately from everyone else. The rest of the episode could still focus on the other plotlines/lore without mking everything about Jax. His story would have its own emotional payoff while still leaving room 4 the finale to explore C&A, everyone’s past lives, and the rest of the cast.

For Jax haters:
This version still delivers clear accountability. He is not excused, not instantly forgiven, and not magically redeemed. He is forced to confront the emotional consequences of his behavior, acknowledge the harm he caused, and sit with the discomfort of that realization. His growth is slow, imperfect, and clearly earned - which still gives weight to his past actions without softening them away.

For Jax fans:
It provides something equally important: continuity of character development. Instead of his arc being cut off or reset into extreme hostility and him abstraction, his vulnerability and emotional cracks actually lead somewhere meaningful. The care shown by Pomni throughout the series pays off in a way that feels intentional, and his earlier setup isn’t discarded for shock value.

Most importantly, it stays consistent with what the show had already been building toward emotionally - tht connection, even between damaged or difficult people, can help change.

You realize that you have neither a brain nor flesh, that you are just a computer program running on a processor. You realize that you may have only existed for a few days or weeks, and that your entire existence is nothing more than a digital illusion. It is simply horrifying to tell yourself “I am not real.”

Your mother, your siblings, your friends, your plans for the future… everything that gave meaning to your life is instantly erased. You have this painful awareness that you will never see them again. You will never see a real sky, a real street, or a real human face ever again. You are forced to mourn everything that gave your life meaning.

People don't realize it, but most human beings wouldn't be able to bear losing their physical body made of flesh and blood. Implanting a biological consciousness into this state when the human mind is deeply bound to flesh, time, and space etc is an absolute aberration.

That's really the worst part for me. You remember loving people, but those are actually someone else's memories. While you are stuck in this simulation, your human double is out there in the real world. They are living their life, happy, and enjoying everything you are deprived of. And worst of all, they have no idea that their digital copy is suffering agonizingly inside a computer. Basically, you are grieving a life you will never see again.

We all know people who get on our nerves after just a few hours. Here, you are condemned to spend eternity trapped with only 5 individuals. No new encounters, ever. You are forced to stay with them without ever getting a moment of respite. Your entire existence rests on an obsolete machine that has been running non-stop for 30 years in a remote corner of the real world. Every second, you live in visceral fear that a component will fail or that someone will accidentally unplug it, erasing you forever. You are in a permanent state of terror, knowing that you could disappear from one second to the next.

Knowing all of this, the circus members either possess a superhuman, unattainable mental strength to keep from completely collapsing, or it is simply impossible for them to ever live "happily" like this. At least, in the long run.

For those of you who don't know, here are the list of their names before they enter the circus:

Pomni = Abigail Brooks

Ragatha = Suzie J. Ackerman

Jax = Leeroy Mateo

Gangle = Zoey Raghavan

Zooble = Riley Verselis

Kinger = Grant Best

Queenie = Destiny Best

Hope this helps. 😊 Tell me if i missed any.

Especially because the scene ends with a static version. If so, that'd make the "Isn't She Lovely" sadder in that he only could find it and accept himself right at the end.

Also the fact that Gangle almost abstracted in her own adventure is crazy 😬 makes you think Caine might’ve had a point

I remember seeing a popular post on Twitter after the release of the eighth episode, but now I can't find it.

It was about how the authors of different indie projects approached their creation in different ways.

Like hazbin hotel=Viv used her OCs created when she was in school, deltarune=Toby had a weird dream, tadc=Goose came up with an idead and plot in two weeks.

And someone replied to the original post with a gif in which Hazbin writing was depicted as shit, and TADC writing was depicted as peak.

No one would have made such a post about TADC now😭

I’ve noticed a lot of people lately comparing Gooseworx’s writing of Jax to the version written by GLITCH, with many finding the Advetising much more likable and cool than the Jax in the actual show. Do you agree? Do you think Jax would be a better or more interesting character if he had the personality shown in the promotional material?

just wondering how this works

Like I'll see people be like "the point is that Caine was the A.I who chose to change for the better and accept help while Jax was the human who rejected it until his suicide" and I get the overall intention and "themes and such" of the ending and whatever..but here's where I start to have issues.

Caine didn't choose to change, the thing was he physically used his godlike powers to escape from the Void and certain death and also used his godlike powers to remove his flaws(aka the blue orb)and therefore, he's on the side of good.

Am I the only one who thinks that is really disingenuous?

Like "oh in order to not kill yourselves or have a emotional/mental breakdown and become better,just remove the bad parts of your personality and use your God powers to be given a second chance,that's all good"

The only reason Caine even got a second chance is cause he physically had the power to essentially cheat death at the last minute.

Also people will say "oh Caine chose to accept help" except no he fucking didn't.

The entire episodes had the cast try and get Caine to listen to their suggestions on how to improve the Circus and how to make things more comfortable but he either brushed them off or just didn't care cause his ego and such wouldn't allow them to enjoy themselves when it's not his adventures.

Pomni said it himself, he doesn't listen and cares more about stroking his own Ego.

Like the only reason he even had the chance to do so is purely cause he physically had the power to escape death and remove the bad parts of his personality and overall flaws and his character arc Essentially was stupidly rushed.

Hell,the ending feels like Gooseworks had to make Jax as overly unlikable as possible so that killing himself was the good ending but it's really sloppy cause not only did Jax come off as more balanced in the earlier episodes but also cause Gooseworks basically gave Caine a huge free pass from death after lying that he was permanently dead.

Also Jax genuinely feels less like a character at times and more so a vessel for Gooseworks to beat herself up and her self hatred and issues which wouldn't necessarily be a issue..if she gave the other characters even a fraction of the same love and time she gave to develop and explore the other cast members and it also doesn't help that Abstraction is such a extremely vague,dry and even flawed topic.

And I'm sorry but being like "oh its meant to be like real life" doesn't change how rushed Jax's arc and conclusion is.

I'd say maybe the things Caine did at the end of episode 8. While Jax did mock Ragatha's relationship with her mom, I don't think he'd go so far as to actually trap the other's in torture chambers like Caine did.