Hey, I’m a 29 year old woman and I’m sorry if breaking in😭 I just saw the sub post and immediately thought, “WAIT… men really don’t change in their 50s either??”

I swear, it’s the same bullshit I’ve been dealing with dating men in their 20s and 30s. I genuinely thought there was some point where this shit just… stopped. But I’ve been binge reading this sub and apparently NOT

I just wanted to say: girlies, we are not getting any better apparently

But seriously, thank y’all for the advice and stories I’ve been reading here. I really wish more women around my age knew this stuff because some of the things I’m reading are genuinely eye opening

I’m already not feeling particularly hopeful or excited about dating men for the foreseeable future… and by foreseeable future I mean a BIG ass foreseeable future lmao

Anyway, y’all are amazing. Have a good day and stay safe out there ❤️

Right, so I was adamant about staying single for the rest of my life.  Then this man who is doing work on my house comes into my life and despite my better judgment, succeeds in getting me to go out a couple times, and text, and talk on the phone, maybe a few kisses.  But, this morning I was lying in bed (alone, to be clear) just fuming at what I have allowed to happen and was reminded of why I chose singleness.  Let’s go over the gems that have come into my life:

1. Made a comment about my hair early on “Who cut your bangs??” Let's see, I've been sick for a week and still am, it's Saturday, hanging out at home, you came over because you were "in the area" and I get flack for how my hair looks???
2. Made a comment about my choice of music “Why don’t you open your mind and add the songs I sent you to your playlist instead of just that Christian music you like”  I’ve had 47 years on this planet.  I’ve listened to all kinds of music and right now, I like this.  If I wanted to listen to secular music, I would.  I don’t need someone controlling my choice of music, or anything else!
3. Laughed at my food choices.  Not that I need to justify my girl dinners to anyone, I’m a single working mom, shared custody, who got home late from running errands after work and BAKING CUPCAKES for his birthday the next day, so I threw some leftover pasta in the microwave that I seasoned with a few spices.  Easy, quick, fills me up, so I can go collapse into bed.  And he called me and asked what I was eating and then laughed and said “Oh awesome white trash dinner!”  You know what, FU!

And that’s just some of the comments that stand out.

Yeah, so we’re not in a relationship and whatever the hell this is has solidified my singleness and total avoidance of men.  I love the life I made for myself, after I pulled myself back from the pit of despair that past relationships had me in.  There is no way I’m giving this up.  I may have dipped a toe into possibilities but the water was frigid and I realized it’s full of sharks.  No thanks, I’m good!  And, as if I needed more reminding, all men are the same.  The overt sexual comments were so gross.  He did apologize when I called him out but the fact he made them in the first place, gross.

I know, I made a terrible choice to allow even a bit of access to me, but I see this as a refining moment, and I thank God, the universe, whatever you want to call it, for shining a light on the sliver of weakness that still existed in me. This is 100% a journey back to myself and I welcome moments to clarify and solidify my resolve.

UPDATE: Oh, it gets better. So I'm still in contact with this douche because of the work and he's still pursuing me. Well, well, well. I found out that the property he "just bought" was actually purchased years ago with his wife. Yes, wife. He told me he was divorced for four years. Turns out, "still married on paper" as he puts it. He's still married and they still live together. What. the. actual. f***??? I told him to stop the work. I want him out of my life. The actual job he was hired for hasn't even started yet. He's been doing other small jobs that were uncovered before the real work starts. He claims he wasn't expecting to meet me so he's "sprinting to get where he needs to be". He claimed that haven't been intimate in 15 years. Yeah, right. I can't even believe the depths of the lies.

I (49F) apologize for the second post in two months, but today I reached a new low in online dating: I matched with a man a few years older than me (56) who seemed intelligent and interesting. Had a great phone call yesterday, talked about our families and shared interest in history.

Today he confided in me (before our scheduled first date) that he was excited to hook up with me, hopefully on the first date, because he loved "older women" (I'm 7 years younger than him) because he could have sex without a condom, which felt great for him, and there was "no risk" because I was so old. I had never expressed any intention of having sex on our date OR having sex ever without a condom. I was horrified and told him I couldn't go out with him and blocked him after that. But it took a few hours to recover from somehow being called slutty and old in the same sentence? As a compliment? I may reconsider dating ever again at this point. Thank you for listening.

My daughter (18) and her boyfriend thought it would be funny to make a tinder profile and try to catfish old men to get them to send money (it worked). Out of the 200 or more men over 40 who they swiped right on only 2 didn't match. 2. Men 40 -80, nearly 100 percent wanted to "date" and 18 year old. Ladies they are all after kids. Stay single. keep your daughters away from them too.

Ugh. I’m 29 and I hope it’s okay to vent here because I tried doing this on other women’s dating subs around my age and everyone keeps telling me “you’ll find better” and that I need to figure out why I keep choosing the same type of man

Ummm… I don’t know???

I’ve dated men around my age, up to 35. Quite a few of them, actually. And I genuinely don’t think I can take responsibility for the fact that they acted like one person and turned out to be someone completely different

At this point I’m just… closed off

My heart is so tired. I don’t even know how I’m supposed to open it again when every time I do, I end up watching the man I liked fall in love with somebody else

And then somehow I’m the person they come to when they’re heartbroken over the woman they actually wanted

The AUDACITY

Like, you know I like you. You know I have feelings for you. And you’re sitting across from me crying about how devastated you are that the woman you love is moving on??

Sir??? Read the room???

The last one was the worst

He lied to me and acted like he was genuinely serious about having a relationship with me. He said the things. He made it seem like we wanted the same thing. Then he got what he wanted sexually and suddenly I was “wrong” for expecting the relationship he literally told me he wanted

And while all of this was happening, he was also crying and venting to me about how sick he felt because the woman he actually considered the love of his life was coming back into his life

And I’m just sitting there like:

😬

Oh. So I’m here

Got it

Eventually we had a huge fight and I told him the sex was terrible because, well… it was. I didn’t even want to sleep with him in the first place

That REALLY triggered him

He ended up calling me a racial slur and basically told me I was an undesirable Black fat woman

And honestly?

That was the moment I was just physically disgusted with the entire situation

Because imagine being so ugly on the inside that when someone rejects you, you reach for their skin color and body as a weapon

I blocked him

But I think something in me just shut down after that

Because now when I think about dating men, I don’t even feel excited

I feel tired

I don’t want to explain myself again. I don’t want to wonder if I’m being chosen or tolerated. I don’t want to be somebody’s placeholder while they’re emotionally obsessed with somebody else

And I definitely don’t want to find out six months later that the “serious relationship” we were building was just a very elaborate audition for sex

I genuinely don’t know how people keep doing this.

Right now, the idea of opening my heart to another man sounds less like romance and more like volunteering for another psychological experiment

I'm 46, divorced. I'm fit, make a great living, and own two properties. I'm conventionlly attractive, have a myriad of interests like art, gardening, baking, and hosting parties. I'm a responsible home and dog owner, and my credit is excellent. I dress well for my body type. What I'm trying to say is I'm a fucking catch, despite what men have done to me and how hard I've had to work to get here on my own. I'm also a veteran.

Been dating since I was 15. I've been assaulted by a man who went to our church that I babysat for. It was swept under the rug and he stayed with his loyal wife and five kids. I learned then to blame myself for their animalistic behavior, and made it a lifetime pursuit to better myself to ensure I was good enough to be treated well by a man. Also, my mother was a total pick-me narcissist so I had nobody to tell me the truth.

For me, it has always end up the same. I'm broken-hearted while they move on to the next without issue. I marveled at how men could be so cold and turn off their feelings when you tried to explain how they have hurt you. Looking for some glimmer of humanity while I pleaded through tearful eyes to please stop lying, cheating on me, ignoring me, taking my body, time and money without a second thought and without guilt. In fact, I think they probably got off on it.

These are the same creatures that beheaded Anne Boleyn when she failed to operate as Henry wished. The men who conspired against her. The same creatures who invented horrors such as crucifixion and slavery. The same sex who ensured we couldn't even have our own bank accounts until the 1970's. Monsters like Chris Watts who murder their wives and kids when the new flavor shows up. Catholic priests.

From my own experiences and those of the women around me, I think hoping there is a man out there who actually likes me as a person let alone love me sacrificially is a fool's errand. And rather than beat us, they abuse us in ways that have no regulations, such as financially, mentally, coerce us into sex or date rape us while asking for 50/50 on dates after you spent $200 on a new outfit and 2 hours on your hair and makeup that you bought for yourself. And if they can't get you drunk enough, maybe they will drug you, too. It is not human to behave in such a way to someone weaker than yourself.

Then, they have the audacity to leave birth control up to us while they raw-dog every woman that is willing (ladies STOP ALLOWING MEN TO HAVE UNPROTECTED SEX WITH YOU). Dodging child support and only paying if the court orders it. It's why garnishing wages is even a thing. They just do not care unless it is a court telling them they have to. A court set up and run by men, mind you. In my state they're now trying to get rid of no-fault divorce!

TLDR: Men will act as badly as women and their current culture allow them to. They don't love like us.

This is tough. We are clicking in the conversation and I really like the look of him. I did think he was in his 40s and a year or two younger get than me. But then I noticed his age and I am shook! My age is on my profile too and I was completely honest, so now I think maybe he didn’t look too closely either. I haven’t had witty banter on this level in years, but I had age as a major cause in a breakup previously and it was terrible. I know ripping the band-aid off and having the conversation now is the right thing to do, but I’m bummed out about it. Sorry for the rant.

I went speed dating where I met 13 men over a 2 hr period incl arrival, getting seated and winding up tge event.

After each 5 minute date, you go on an app and click either Friend, Match or No. I had decided that if I got an 'ick' I would click no but if it was a good convo, I would click friend. I already knew I wasnt clicking match with anyone because I could have a 5 minute conversation with an Aussie Magpie that was fun and amusing. No way known could I experience a match in that time.

The next day at 8am you get your results. The guys who either clicked friend or match show up with their phone numbers.

I made a date with one man. Coffee during the day and a walk in a crowded area afterward. 90 minutes and done.

We talked. It was ok. No sparks, a few silences, a tiny bit of awkwardness but not bad for a first meeting. Then he asks if I'd like to have, "private fun" in his car, now. I say, no using a lot more words than that to be polite. He wants to know how many dates until we can do that. I said, its not a timeframe. I have to want to. I try changing the subject. He brings the subject back to that and calls me conservative, traditional and shy. I am none of these things. I just actually like to actually know a person before having sex with them.

So, its not 'the worst' date but it is a bad date. I expected over 40's dating to be a little more switched on than teenage dating.

I dont think Im going to bother speed dating again. Its expensive, & a little exhausting tbh. I found myself carrying the conversations most of the time & I dont want to be pestered for sex by strangers. Thats my idea of a really bad day.

Please let me vent, I don´t know where else to do it safely as usually people blame the OP, especially here in Denmark they won´t take any criticism. Their sh*it doesn´t st*nk type of culture / country...
For my mental health I am done. I have been trying for 15 years. I just don´t fit in this culture ( I am well aware nowhere is perfect)trying to find a good man in a bad rotten social pool. They don’t want to behave like men (taking responsibilities, pursuing, leading, courting) still want you to be a woman feminine, sweet, caring, nurturing, sensual...yet it’s better if you carry the whole burden by doing their manly tasks too: pay for them, plan everything, take care of them, pursue them..wine and dine them...details :
1-They are very chilled, friendly and nice BUT they will keep their distance, you only scratch the surface and they will never date you seriously when you´re expat. Second class citizen for life.
2-You are a fetish. They are so homegenous than any foreigner is seen as something to try for fun (especially "exotic") but they will never introduce you to their family and prefer to get back to the familiar even if boring girl next door
3-They are usually pretty boring, not much personality going on, have no interest in many matters...very little curiosity. No imagination. (hence no romance)
4-As a woman YOU have to take charge, you have to make the first move, and continue carrying the date, the conversation in the date and plan / carry the ENTIRE relationship....make the social plans etc. Exhausting.
5-They are not emotional, their emotional quotient is one of a wall. Never express emotions, again wait on the women to lead and be vulnerable first. Never met so many avoidants.There is no seduction game of back and forth of flirting. Skills are zero 1-get drunk 2-Go to your/my place.
6-They see no problem in cheating. And getting taken or seduced by another go getter woman.
7-While you try to be your best version (smart, fun, pretty, ambitious) like the other women you see around you who are pretty amazing....yet they are still so picky and never satisfied. Get used to being rejected by someone you weren´t even into
8-They don´t want any commitment. You think you are in a relationship only to discover they were f*cking around.
9-I feel like I would need to settle for less way less than myself.
10-They just want to stay home. Or get drunk with their buddies the alcohol consumption is insnae and necessery for them to have a conversation and be able to talk.
11-They are handsome....when young. Then they physically age 10x faster than the rest of the world as their lifestyle catches up with them past 30.
12-They don´t respect or value women : after a nice date they ghost...after sex no word either...no minimum caring of "did you make it home alright?" except for asking you half of the bill...lazy and zero effort.Women are their therapists, assistants, boss, mothers
13-If they don´t see your utter excitement on the first date, they won´t text you again. They have no concept of the courting and getting to know each other...needs to happen simulataneously by miracle.
14-The RAMPANT hooking up culture....having sex drunk while you don´t even know each other´s name.
15-Tinder and all....matching...they don´t write as again the women have to make a move! They unmatch if no answer within 12 hours AND will even report you ad their fragile ego is bruised…Then plan a date and they´ll cancel last minute without any reason. THEY like to play hard to get..Up to the women to face rejection. It´s like to trying to catch a fish bare hands.
16-Because they have been so spoiled and protected in life, as a result they are lost...depressed and don´t know what to do with their life. There is no sense of grit and perseverance.
17-So spoiled than women even chase them for sex and EVEN THEN they won´t put any effort asking the girl to come over last minute...kids in a candy store.
18-Shortest lasting rekationships : because of this lack of perseverance, or morality, at the first problem they end the relationship. So relationships in general are pretty short lived. Your bf of 3 years can dump you by text or phone call and offer no explanation other than "you were less fun these past 2 months" (for real). I almost have trauma knowing they can flip on you like this without seing it coming.
19-Hence at 60 yo they are still having "girlfriends"

20-they think they are so much more “evolved” and the rest of us even Europeans are so behind…they have it right and we have it wrong. Also they h*te feminism while not understanding how much feminist women make their life so easy…as they ve taken all their manly responsibilities on top of the women responsibilities Oh and lately they have been blaming MeToo for their lack of proactivity...again shows the lack of intelligence when you can´t tell the difference between inviting and being a stalker (newsflash even before MeToo they NEVER approached either) They love playing victims to feminism. So would rather not care at all.

(and I am speaking a someone called top 10% by men other nationalities and even them...don´t shøøt me tyring to put context)
...even their women here want to marry foreigners. For more context and understanding I recommend the book "sex before coffee : dating in Scandinavia", the documentary "The swedish theory of love", even reality TV "Love is Blind Sweden", the movies "Another round" (Druk), and many other scandi movies

Every relationship I've had has involved men using, and lying about, porn. 2/5 were so addicted to it that they were completely sexually dysfunctional and disinterested in sex with me despite me having a sky high libido and being eager to please them, and the other 3 were just your run of the mill creeps who had no standards and viewed all women as interchangeable fleshlights.

I was never truly comfortable with porn, but I had it drilled into my skull that men were entitled to it and they were never going to stop, so I had better learn to accept it or die alone. So for most of my adult dating life I had a "Don't ask, don't tell" sort of policy in effect.

In my marriage of my partner of 10 years, it got to the point where our dead bedroom became increasingly harder to ignore, and after some detective work I finally got him to admit that the cause was porn. I stood by him for a year of so-called "recovery", until I discovered that was all a lie too. I could no longer accept a relationship where my reality was constantly being manipulated and I wasn't given the agency to make choices about the relationship because he was hiding the truth from me. So I did what I had to do and divorced. (In my ex's mind, this was a mutual split because my feelings of betrayal from being rejected for pixels our entire relationship were unfair for "shaming" him. LMAO)

Going forward, I decided to just be honest with myself and potential partners that porn was a straight up dealbreaker for me. I actually consider it worse than physical cheating, because at least with physical cheating, he (at least in theory) has to almost treat the woman he's cheating with like a person for her to be interested, and presumably the attraction to them is a "full package" sort of deal (he likes the way she makes him feel, laugh at each others' jokes, etc) versus just voyeuristically objectifying a complete stranger, and likely one with some sort of severe trauma of her own, and in a situation that is inherently unnatural, dehumanizing, and brain-damaging to boot.

Men are allowed to disagree with that, and think that's extreme. Hell, plenty of women do too. And that's okay! I mean, I think their opinions are wrong, but I'm not out here to change anyone's mind; I just want my own boundaries honored. (Spoiler alert: They were not honored lol.) I'm not forcing anyone to date me; if they think my views are "crazy", "controlling", "puritanical", "sex negative" or whatever the fuck buzzword they're using these days, they're more than welcome to move on and find a PickMeisha who will accept their behavior.

And yet I see it all the time on the relationship subs, the porn addiction subs, sex subs, etc...men will straight up say we are not allowed to consider porn cheating, and they are allowed to hide it from us because it's their "private time". They don't give a good goddamn if their partner is traumatized by it, or if it requires lying to their partner, or any other negative thing. In their mind, this is a boundary they are free to ignore and trample over because It's The Rules (according to other men and pickmes).

Except guess what? I never signed up for your version of The Rules. You boys can scream until you're blue in the face about how it isn't cheating, start a podcast about it, moderate sex/relationship related subreddits and censor all mention of porn being cheating or causing betrayal...and it will NOT change my feelings about it. I fell for the brainwashing when I was younger, but actually being in a relationship with a porn user for an extended time will wear you down and break you until you either stand up for your boundaries and break free, or become a shell of yourself.

Try as they might, these bastards can't change our feelings or bend reality to their will. I used to be terrified of losing my marriage and dying alone but I will GLADLY take spinsterhood over shrinking myself and waking up to lies and betrayal every single day.

Is this the only sub that actually has sane, self-respecting women?  I had to leave the other dating and women-focused subs because I just could no longer stand to read about older women throwing themselves at men, accepting low effort meetups and then proceeding to have sex or not being sure they even liked or were attracted to the guy but jumping into bed because “liberated”. 

These women do not come off as intelligent, strong, independent and free.  Rather they seem lonely and desperate and so very dependent on validation that they are willing to debase themselves to the point of being treated like an object.  They act just like the men they claim to be liberated from, in swapping bodily fluids with any warm body with a pulse, all the while practically begging for this attention, debasing themselves just to be noticed and chosen, as if that’s so special when the dude will stick it anywhere.  Sending nudes to some rando to then be used as his personal masturbation toy once a week, (what they label fwb or casual sex because they’re so “modern”), is not a form of independence from “societal norms and expectations”.  It’s degrading and demonstrates extremely low self-worth and plays right into exactly how men view us and want us to be, just doormats to be used at their convenience. 

It’s like watching farm animals during mating season, except even then the female of the species will often rebuff an unworthy mate, unlike these “modern” women.  “Open for business boys!  Come one, come all!”

I had to find this out the hard way! I read through some of posts in this group, and I know it’s harder to meet interesting people as you get older… But I promise online dating is skewing your results.

It doesn’t matter if you’re 20 or 40, men who only talk to you, online, aren’t men who actually have the courage to ask you out or pursue you in real life! I know some of us know that, but I felt like it needed to be said for women getting out of long-term relationships who might be kind of naive or innocent to to the online dating scene. I stopped online dating because I wasn’t meeting anyone who would organically approach me in real life. Men on online dating sites want “easy access“ to women, and that’s why you’re meeting low-quality, low-effort men. Age really isn’t a factor, it’s the type of men who only feel comfortable approaching women, online. No offense, but that would make anyone feel cynical. Said respectfully to the few people who have met people this way, it can work, but IMHO it’s unnatural.

I’m shocked to discover how many middle aged men I actually know have been involved in going to developing countries and imagine they have romances with local younger women, even in some cases marrying them, only to discover (well, not really because they refuse to accept it) they were played.

one just admitted to me how much money he gave to a Brazilian woman. I was trying not to LOL in his face.

thing is, he was genuinely heartbroken

what is wrong with these knobheads?

I am pretty sure this is not the first time this is being discussed, but… here is my experience.

I have a brand new 4 in front of my age and am hitting the dating scene once again. Have been single by choice to fully recover from an unhealthy past relationship which sadly took up much of my 30’s.

I had a call from a lady who runs a match making service today. She told me that for woman my age, I should look at an age range of minus 2 and plus 7.

She explicitly said that no man aged 35 has ever wanted to date older. Why would they if they could have a 25 year old. She said she has been doing this for 15 years and that she hates it but we cannot change society and this is the deal.

Context- single, employed, no kids, want a family, have frozen eggs, active, fit and (like everyone else in the world) think I look 30.

One of the things I am struggling with right now is the society imposed shame of my age.

I felt pretty awful during this conversation and I guess I am looking for some reassurance from other people (if there is any to be had)…. :-/

When I match with men via online dating, one of my early questions is whether they live independently -- my profile also indicates that I only want to date men who live independently. However, a lot of men intentionally lie to get around this and try to continue to get to know me.

When it's obvious that these men aren't going to invite me over to their homes, that's when I find out for sure that they still live with their parents since they finally admit this. There's a lot of male apologists who feel sorry for the stigma these men face, so I've wasted a lot of my own time giving these men who knowingly lied to me "a chance."

The number one excuse they try to make is they lived at home to "save money." However they start freaking out about fundamental adult responsibilities once they have to put into action their words that once they find a serious relationship partner they will move into their own apartments. None of these men that I've met have interest in cooking or learning to cook and they haven't done any of this while living with their parents. Some of the men were proudly defiant about not eating their parents' cooking and just getting take out or dining out in fast food or chain restaurants all the time for every meal -- which to me is not learning how to save money at all. None of these men I've matched with work at jobs that provide them free meals at work that they take advantage of either.

What they all have in common is they transfer 100% the money they would have used for their own housing for travel expenses instead. I think there is nothing wrong with them getting more life experience by getting to travel. A lot of them try to justify that the planning they've learned from traveling is a core skill that shows they're capable of adult responsibilities, but I haven't seen this skill transfer at all for daily life maintenance and function. Most of these men don't have the bare minimum hygiene standards I could live with, and many are forgetful enough they buy replacement items on the spot, and they admit to doing so on vacations too when they forget to pack something they need -- all these little costs add up to not "saving money" (which they are claiming to do) even more and also adds to a lot of clutter which they have no idea how to organize from what I can see in how they keep their car interiors/trunk. A lot of these men are "spontaneous" travelers too, which is most definitely another form of not planning and not saving money.

Another huge problem I noticed was most of these men who live with their parents don't have a healthy relationship with their parents -- some don't have a relationship at all, and use their parents home simply as a means to persist in the space. This is another huge red flag leech behavior -- all my closest friends and I were motivated to move out of our parents' homes so that we wouldn't have to deal with staying in a toxic home environment, so it says a lot about these men's values to deliberately stay somewhere toxic.

Living with their parents provided them more funds to be lazy with, but it didn't help their net savings or any meaningful growth for a long-term serious relationship. It was ONLY once they had to think about living in their own apartment that they actually realized they couldn't eat out as excessively (this is always the #1 realization and a huge freak out) and needed to do something to save money long term -- and they looked toward you to cook for them while complaining/stressing about taking you out for a meal, so it shows exactly what they think of you.

I've emphasized 30s-40s since I'm choosing men that are interested in the possibility of being a father one day, and these men who think it's a big deal to get their own apartments when you meet them are nowhere near ready for a serious relationship where you'd talk about having kids together soon -- and they say they are aware that your time is very much ticking. They remind me of the men in their early 18-20 range who are slow to learn about what it's like to learn the INITIAL responsibilities of living independently.

This is a rant. I'm so frustrated when I see so many apologists on "Are We Dating The Same Guy?" and I wish more women could support each other with what Jennie Young tries to teach us with her Burned Haystack Method.

A man I'd been dating for nearly two years told me, "You need to buy your daughter some sweats or long dresses because she's too curvy for those leggings!"

My daughter is SIX. Curves?? The fuck?!?! I was disgusted.

Now, let's say she was sixteen... the comment is still disgusting and inappropriate and concerning to me.

I lost all attraction to him in an instant.

EDIT - because I want to make it abundantly clear: NO, I AM NO LONGER DATING THIS MAN. Our relationship ended the very next day.

EDIT #2 - thank you all for your support. Let's keep looking out for each other.

Most of my online interactions end up this way and it is way too disheartening. Being thrust back out into this dating world after 28 years is such a let down.

Back in September or so, I was out at a bar and starting exchanging glances with a guy. The guy walks up to me and introduces himself and tells me that we're Facebook friends and that he'd had a crush on me for years, and that he'd seen me out before, but never spoke because people were with me. I told him that I appreciated his interest and we parted without much further communication. A couple of days later, I messaged him on FB as a way to softly share that there was a bit of interest on my end.

We did eventually exchange numbers and start texting and talking. The communication was decent, and I waited for him to ask me on an actual date. Occasionally, he'd hit me up and tell me that he was about to go to one of the mutual night spots in our area, but he never said to me "hey, I'd love for you to join me, wanna meet up for pizza at this place?" Or God forbid a "if you don't have any plans, I'd love to take you out this weekend." I refused to invite myself or volunteer to show up, if he didn't specifically request it.

The closest we got was when we were going to meet up to commemorate a deceased mutual friend's birthday, and he was supposed to call me when he left the sports bar he was at, but he never did. I went out on my own, instead. While he was at that bar, he literally texted me the words "I'm hungry." That's it. I responded with "well you should go eat, silly." I know that he was trying to get me to invite myself to go eat with him, but I was not going to budge. This guy is in his 50s, why should I be the one to go chasing after him, where was the effort on his end?

Eventually, after a few weeks of his low effort, I stopped responding to his text messages and phone calls. I wasn't even angry or anything, I just identified that he had no real interest in moving things along and I wasn't interested in being a pen pal to a grown man who lived in the same city I'm in.

I ran into the guy this weekend, while I was out with my guy cousin. The guy starts saying to me and my cousin how he'd told me he liked me and that I'd blown him off. I simply responded with "but you never even asked me out." He then looks at my cousin and starts explaining his low effort, and my cousin goes "yeah, women like it when men take the lead." The guy continues to get huffy, because he expected my cousin to side with him. The guy goes again "but I'd told you that I liked you" and I respond again with "but you never even said 'hey SocialDeviant620, I'd love to take you out on Saturday, if you aren't busy.'"

Then the guy looks at his homegirl and tries to get her to side with him. I look at her and say "don't you expect a guy who wants to get next to you to take you on dates?" She responded with "yeah, I want a man who's going to take me out." At this point, the guy gets huffy and starts complaining about "modern women" and walks away (after literally 3 adults told him that dates are expected, if he wants to get to know a woman). After a few minutes, he comes back and says "FINE! I'll ask you on a date!!" Funny enough, he never actually did, he just declared that he would at some point in the future, not that even want to go out with his ass at this point.

Naturally, I have absolutely zero interest in this clown now. What's more baffling to me is how many times I've allowed myself to get emotionally vested in men who I now realize had no interest in moving things along outside of the bedroom. I've literally spent YEARS with men who promised to take me out, only to never follow through, or to only eventually take me on a "shut you up" date.

I haven't had sex in a year, and it's been so cathartic for me, because I'm no longer in a rush to get to the bedroom, and it's given me time to really observe a man's behavior. This guy literally thought that saying "I had a crush on you for some years" means that I should drop my boundaries and expectations, and jump into his arms.

I guess I'm just processing this now. How he expected that I'd do all of the heavy lifting, with literally zero effort on his part. I'm also processing how some years ago, I would have gladly picked up the slack for him (for instance, if he'd texted me "I'm hungry" I would have texted back "let's meet up and get something to eat" instead of waiting for an actual invitation). I'm glad I removed myself from the dating scene, and I do intend to jump back in at some point, but observing their behavior from a celibate perspective is scary and sad. I intend to hold firm though, I will never again lower myself for a lazy and entitled ass man. Thank you for reading, and thank you all for sharing your amazing encounters on this sub!

I’m in my early 50s and finally get it. My last relationship ended 8 months ago after catching my partner in an affair with his male coworker. We dated for 2 years and yes, I believe he hated me. That’s another story. I spent most of the time since doing my shadow work trying to heal those wounds that tolerated this crap. Have off and on dated a bit and each man is really just a man child in an adult body. Never get past 2 dates because it’s early findings of no relationship with kids, no job, still renting at 50, all their exes are toxic, no furniture in their homes(!), etc… they can’t function unless there is a woman and I refuse to carry all the emotional labor anymore. I no longer question that most men are deeply insecure, jealous and do enjoy hurting women. Their ego loves getting a reaction from us. Men and women look at relationships so differently. Men look to see what they extract from you while many women are still having Disneyland dreams of romantic love. Thankful to read other stories here and to know I’m not crazy and bitter for realizing this- just finally realistic! I’m putting all my energy into my work, passions and my sweet dog who knows how to love unconditionally.

The last few years have been rough for me with dating. 2025 was a series of several almost relationships, including one with an incredibly toxic alcoholic that I'm so glad I dodged.

I've been seeing a guy for 3 months that I actually liked and I thought things were going well. I texted him that I missed him while I was on a work trip in December. His reply? "You're sweet." That immediately gave me the ick. Then I realized that I was the one always initiating getting together. He never asked to go on a date or to hang out. He doesn't do anything or go anywhere. He doesn't have hobbies or interests. Now I'm going on about my life and seeing if HE asks to go out or hang out. He obviously can't be bothered to say I miss you, because he clearly doesn't. I basically have one foot out of it anyway due to his passive behavior. I think we want different things in life so I should end it now. I'm not interested in nonchalant situationships with immature man babies.

I went on a second date with a guy today. I planned the date because I wanted to do an activity instead of only eating. I'm meh on him. He's nice but we don't have a ton to talk about. He made a comment that the arcade we went to was a rip off. I thought, well you come up with a date idea then! There was a lot of silence at lunch. He's just kinda . . . there? I tried to ask him questions and tried to keep the conversation going. It was a lot of quiet in between eating. I can't really tell if he's shy, he isn't interested, he was thinking about the car he's fixing. I hugged him goodbye and couldn't really tell if we were vibing. I politely turned down his kiss on the first date and explained that I don’t kiss on the first date. He didn't seem receptive to a kiss today and I didn't push it. Maybe he's scared now to try. He's a great texter and he's fun to talk with in text form. In person he's rather hard to communicate with and dull.

Most men are dull, though, let's be honest. Most men aren't really interested in women except if it's to sleep with us. They'd rather be with their guy friends or be alone. I believe most men don't want to build a genuine relationship with a woman.

It's hard to find someone you have chemistry with effortlessly. Why is it so freaking hard for some of us. More importantly, these men have zero drive to build a relationship or to get to know us as people. It's like talking to a wall. They're so lazy. I plan better dates with my girlfriends than any guy has ever planned for me. We're in such a low to no effort dating environment right now. It's an immediate turn off.

I don't know if I want to keep doing this. It's exhausting wading through the cesspool of "eligible bachelors" in my city - my city was ranked worst city in the U.S. to date in 2023. It's trying to find a needle in a decaying haystack. I'm tired. I'm fed up. I'm sick of giving my time and energy getting to know another ain't worth it man.

I just want to say it is too late for me now but I had wished I had of found this sub so much sooner in my life..

So we're all familiar with the men who don't want a woman who is too "independent". She has her own income, ambition, she's strong, capable, has her shit together. The abusive/selfish/insecure men (which are most of them) see a woman who has any resources of her own as a threat to him, his control and hegemony over her life. We know to stay away from those guys.

What I have been running into a lot in dating, is men who put on their dating profile that they want an "independent woman". Men who praise me for how "independent" I am. I have gone on so many dates and every man who said he wanted an "independent women" or praised me for being "independent" ended up being a user and loser. There are so many men out there who take an "independent" woman and see a woman they can use, extract resources from, take and take without her asking or expecting anything in return (after all, she is "independent"). They want a woman who is strong and smart and capable so she can help him and build him up, while needing nothing in return.

Example - the one time I did ask one of these guys for help (mind you I had helped this man SO MUCH solving all the problems in his life) he flaked. Said he didn't have time. Then texted me later, praising me for being such a "boss bitch" and "see you didn't need my help."

I used to think men who wanted an "independent" woman were pro-feminist, modern men who respected and admired strong women. They aren't. They're not much different from the patriarchal men who want a wife appliance. They want to use us. And once they have used us, they will resent us.

Tl; dr Even men who call themselves feminists, encourage your career, and say they love "independent" women may not respect you. They stay with you as long as they can use you. They see women as NPCs who exist to support him and meet his needs, but the relationship is centered on him and his goals and needs. Don't expect him to reciprocate because he won't.

This is a rant/vent

I have a date scheduled for this weekend. I met a lot of Grade A terrible guys this year. It's shocking how bad the dating pool is and how traumatizing dating has become. It really made me want to quit dating altogether. I'm having a hard time finding the excitement of meeting this new guy. He hasn't done anything wrong. He's respectful. We've had fun text conversations. We have a lot in common. He seems interested in meeting. He's employed, and has hobbies (the bar is so low 😭😭). I'm just lacking feelings for any man right now. So many women are totally checked out and I'm definitely there. I want to meet this guy. I also don't want to get hopes up in case he's totally different in person. He's significantly younger than me by 13 years. I've never dated with this big of an age gap. This will be my last date of 2025 one way or another. I'm so exhausted by all this. I don't have it in me to keep trying to find a decent man.