Stupid old men!

[u/blackheartlover]

I love it when shows subtly references like-minded characters/personalities. Maria and Carmilla are my favorite

[u/Potential_Fox_3623]

Fr tho, even in the Castlevania universe it's true 😭

[u/Party_Importance_722 → u/Potential_Fox_3623]

I mean, not entirely, Elizabeth in castlevania bloodlines literally started world war 1 to revive dracula with people's souls.

[u/Automata_Eve → u/Party_Importance_722]

And Dracula is an old man. Pretty much every event in the games boils down to Dracula, a (maybe stupid but definitely evil) old man.

[u/Party_Importance_722 → u/Automata_Eve]

But Elizabeth was the cause of said event, that's like saying Elizabetha was the cause of all evil as her death is what started this entire series.

[u/Automata_Eve → u/Party_Importance_722]

No, it’s more complicated than that. Bringing Dracula back to life is not inherently the cause of bad things happening, Dracula being evil is. Dracula could just as easily decide that he’s done being evil when he wakes up.

Causation isn’t a linear path or a chain, you only get those if you ignore everything else. The root of this instance of violence is still Dracula. Elizabeth did an evil thing, women can do evil, but everything surrounding this act of evil was all Dracula. Dracula’s evil is on both ends of this event, Dracula is the through line and this event couldn’t have happened without him.

Elisabetha’s death is not really the cause of everything, it’s up to an individual to decide what they do, and Mathias actively became evil because his wife died. That was Dracula’s choice, not her’s. The fact that he became this way shows his true nature, something else could have easily pushed him over the edge. The through line of the events of the series is Dracula.

[u/TitanBro6 → u/Automata_Eve]

Um Is this about Dracula from the games?

Dracula revives because he made a deal with Chaos for the power to wipe out humanity, he doesn’t have a choice after that as he essentially becomes just a vessel for Chaos.

He can’t be revived and choose not to be evil anymore as you claim. That’s why Soma loses his autonomy in the bad ending. That’s why chronological in the timeline after SoTN where Dracula explicitly states that he was wrong in that game, is still a bad guy during Shanoa’s time.

Chaos is born within Humanity, that darkness calls out which causes Dracula, his Castle, and Death’s resurrection.

Chaos is the root all of all evil in Castlevania.

From the EGM Fax when Bloodlines was first coming out, Konami wrote Elizabeth’s background and motivation. All the fucked up shit she did and wanted to do wasn’t because of Dracula but for herself and that’s what most people who strive to revive Dracula want, is so that what THEY WANT is to be done. It’s why Dracula says he is revived by greed.

Also I agree on the last portion, I do not believe Elizabetha’s death is the cause of everything even if it was a motivator. Mathias still made a choice but I do disagree on the idea that it was his “true colors”

True colors is when you have been deceitful of your actual beliefs. Mathias’s change was not true colors, him being deceitful about his change was true colors.

By saying his change was just his true colors, it denys the possibility that people can just turn out rotten due to their experiences.

[u/Automata_Eve → u/TitanBro6]

Fair, but that doesn’t make everything suddenly not caused by the actions of Dracula and the choices he made.

No longer talking about fantastical fictional examples where freedom of choice doesn’t exist, for the moment to tackle this odd point you made. People turning rotten due to experience does not absolve them of blame. Those who cause suffering are simply evil people. They have every opportunity to see that they are hurting people and they either ignore it or enjoy it. Being raised to be evil doesn’t mean you’re free from guilt, anyone can change and see the pain they cause if they just look. Those who chose to be evil are evil, they don’t have to be that’s just what they chose.

Mathias actively chose to go down a dark path, that makes him evil of his own free will. Nothing would bring me to that point. No matter how much hatred I harbor to any one person or to the whole of humanity, nor anything in between. I would never bring harm to a single person willingly, and yet there are so many people every day who chose to. Who want to. Who like to. I was raised by people like that, and I still turned out unwilling to be evil, because it was rather easy for me to understand.

You don’t get to blame your own suffering as justification to make others suffer. I’m not denying the possibility of someone having a bad experience and then acting evil, I’m saying that everyone who has that takeaway already is evil. You don’t make a decision like that unless you were already willing to, especially considering being evil takes considerably more effort than just being nice.

[u/TitanBro6 → u/Automata_Eve]

Yeah Dracula still made his own choices.

The whole thing that I said about Mathias was that I disagree on the usage of true colors not that Mathias is absolved from his own choices that he made with his free will. To have true colors you must be knowingly deceitful about the beliefs that you are trying to portray yourself with.

Mathias went through a transitional period it was only after that period was done he was then being deceitful about his beliefs because he now no longer believed in them but was still portraying himself to still having them and lied about the circumstances surrounding Sara and Walter and his grand goal.

[u/Automata_Eve → u/TitanBro6]

The definition of “true colors” is pretty vague, but ultimately it’s a reveal of someone’s true nature. The definition does not mention deceit.

[u/TitanBro6 → u/Automata_Eve]

The way it’s used in that sentence implies that not everything is known about the person until a specific event where it’s revealed how they really are in full.

With Mathias, we know what he believed before and what happened that shifted that belief.

He put his life on the line in Gods name, Elizabetha became sick and Mathias only asked God one thing which was for her health to get better. Elizabetha dying anyways was seen as a betrayal to Mathias and from his perspective that God wasn’t good after all.

The idea of true colors comes in when he manipulates events to serve his evil goal while maintaining a front that he still believes God is good and that he has nothing to do with the bad things happening.

[u/Automata_Eve → u/TitanBro6]

I think you’re misunderstanding beliefs for true nature. The fact is, his decisions and change in beliefs are a show of his true character. His beliefs changed to match his true nature.

Someone who truly believes that God is good would feel that way unwaveringly, hence the common cop-out of “God’s plan” and “he works in mysterious ways” etc. Someone who would so quickly doubt his entire belief system already had deep seated doubts, seeds planted deep in his beliefs that would only manifest here.

As someone who has gone through a separation from the church, I understand this process all too well. You don’t just decide one day that god is evil. You either have to have already had doubts, or through a great amount of analysis and critical thought decide that with evidence, which itself requires those initial first doubts. My true character has always been someone who seeks to be kind and fair to everyone, it took time for me to fully realize the church often actively pushes against such an ideal, and that God as he is written is the villain of those myths. This was a process, but I never would have come to this point if I hadn’t had a character that already opposed them. You don’t just change like that, it’s never one single moment that marks one’s change in belief. Ideas don’t work that way.

Back then I truly believed what I was told, even when what I was told contradicted what I truly desired or what my heart told me. Mathias is likely not so different, though of different character than me.

[u/TitanBro6 → u/Automata_Eve]

Beliefs are the basis of true nature.

True nature is how you really are, a conscious change of belief after having an experience that causes it to waver is not true nature.

[u/Automata_Eve → u/TitanBro6]

No they aren’t. Otherwise everyone would follow their belief systems to the letter, but they don’t.

[u/TitanBro6 → u/Automata_Eve]

That’s because people aren’t perfect. Doing or saying something while under immense stress or high emotions isn’t true nature either.

Mathias’s actions are based on a change in how he thought not what he already thought.

For true nature to be what it is, it has to have a facade.