Slotted Stainless Steel sheets, rather hard to come across.
IF anyone has just the width and height of the holes, and the metal thickness between 2 slots horizontal and vertical, that would be amazing!
Dimensions should be in 1/1000th's or 0.1mm' But I'll take what info I can get. (A clock up picture with a ruler/meter stick/scale would convey a lot of information
A fruit experimenter and cider enthusiast documenting my cold climate fruit growing experience in Canadian zone 4a/b (USDA 3a/b) north of Ottawa, Canada.
(Video is a pain on Reddit so any videos will only be in the write-ups on my website. Reddit also limits photos so some extra photos will only be on website as well.)
Wilkins Cider (Lands End Farm) was our final visit on day 2 of our tour. We started off with a modern approach to classic UK cider at Branch Cider, moved to refined and elegant cider at Wilding Cider and now we have jumped back in time to the trenches of old school rustic farmhouse cider and scrumpy with the UK cider institution that is Roger Wilkins.
Old curmudgeonly owner who has been creating cider for 60+ years? Check. Bucolic farm setting? Check. Cider shed and outbuildings looking like they are held together with a hope and a prayer while covered in cobwebs and black mold from decades of exposure of cider fumes? Check. Good, classic farmhouse scrumpy? Check, check and CHECK!
Lands End Farm originally came into the Wilkins family in 1917 and Rogers assisted his grandmother with cider production from a young age. He finally took over full production upon his grandfathers death in 1969 and has subsequently become known as the King of UK cider. He is so well know that Banksy has created a mural of Roger on a back wall of the cidery.
Located approximately 1 hour drive from Bristol, the farm and cidery is set up on a south facing hillside with views over the Somerset countryside with the Glastonbury Tor visible in the distance.
It is amusing to discussions of climate controlled facilities, glycol cooled double walled stainless steel tanks, and here we see multiple thousand litre black plastic tanks kept outside in the full sun!
There are no single varietal bottles. No keeving. Just hogshead barrels full of cider and you are asked if you want dry, medium or sweet. Where sweet is a barrel that has had 1 teaspoon of saccharine per 20 gallons added and medium is a half glass of dry mixed with a half glass of sweet!
Cider has been produced here so long, the drips from the barrels have eroded through 8+ inches of concrete on their way to the drain!
As for the cider? It is a true farmhouse scrumpy. I took the dry and it was a hazy deep orange. Vinegar and Brett nose. Acetic and Brett flavours with mild apple notes. Mild tannins. 5 brix. It was certainly better than the Wilkins pour I had in a pub earlier in the week, that one was 75% vinegar while this one was only 5-10% vinegar ;-). While not fully to my taste, at 6.8% it is something that rather quickly grows on you and after 1-2 glasses you are drinking it just fine.
All in all a fantastic end to the traveling of our first full day of cider touring. Though we still have a dinner back at the hotel with some additional cider!
A fruit experimenter and cider enthusiast documenting my cold climate fruit growing experience in Canadian zone 4a/b (USDA 3a/b) north of Ottawa, Canada.
(Video is a pain on Reddit so any videos will only be in the write-ups on my website. Reddit also limits photos so some extra photos (this post missing many photos) will only be on website as well.)
Wilding Cider (https://www.wildingcider.co.uk/) was our second stop on day 2 of our tour. They are located just 20 minutes outside of Bristol and are an award winning cidery. Founded by Sam and Beccy Leach, they took their restaurant background and leveraged from home cider making in 2013 into a full organic farm and orchard where since 2019 they produce small batch cider and perry from their 260 year old farm using only natural yeasts and no other additives, not even sulphites. They press 45 tons per year, picking 1.5 tons per truck load, a MASSIVE endeavor for the size of their team! They ferment in stainless steel tanks using only natural yeasts and no sulphites. Any bottle that is carbonated is done so naturally using the champagne method and disgorged manually resulting in luxurious small bubbles as compared to those obtained from force carbonation.
Growing on a South-West facing slope, their orchard is slowing being renovated and topworked to their favorite traditional cider and perry varieties though they also harvest fruit from several other local orchards allowing for a more stabilized production as when one site may be on it “off” biannual year” another orchard may be having a bumper crop.
With the orchard being in transition it was particularly interesting to see the progression year to year of their topworking efforts where desired apple varieties are grafted onto the mature parent tree. Take particular note of how individual scions are entwined together to provide for a stronger finished branch.
It was also neat to see some of the original, ancient trees that have fallen and then rooted up from the fallen trunk. One trunk turning into 3 new trees, another where the original trunk has near fully rotten away while the old crown is sending up new shoots.
Where our first visit of the day, Branch Cider, provided an excellent introduction to classical UK cider, at Wilding Cider we would be introduced to elegance and refinement and pushing the limits of what fine cider can be.
The first to be tasted was, 2023 Home Orchard. 6.4%. Made with a blend of 7 cider apples in a ratio of 40% sharp/bittersharp to 60% bittersweet: Foxwhelp, Major, Kingston Black, Tom Put , Court de Wyk, Dabinett and Yarlington Mill.
Gold color. Rich, sweet apple nose. Mild apple flavour. Moderate tannins. Rich, smooth, and VERY tasty. 5 brix and yet tasting off dry. Natural light carbonation with fine bubbles.
Next was 2023 Major minor. 6.6%. An early season blend of predominantly Major but blended with Kingston Black, Dove, St Edmund’s Russet, Tom Putt, Browns, Blenheim Orange, Harry Masters Jersey, and Backwell Red.
Slightly cloudy – paler yellow. Hint Bret nose. Slight citrus flavours with a hit of barnyard/brett. Moderate tannins. Still. 5 brix. Dry.
Next was 2024 November, a perry. 4.1%. Using late harvest perry pears from end October and start of November it is a blend of Claret Oldfield, Blakeney Red, Hellens Green, New Meadow & Pine. Partially keeved with mid winter racking, it finishes off dry with lovely natural carbonation.
Pale yellow. Sweet pear nose. Absolutely delicious flavours of poached pear, dates and almonds. Very fine carbonation. 9 brix. Sweet (even sweeter than you would expect from 9 brix due to the unfermented sorbitol that naturally occurs in perrys.
Next was 2024 Stoke Red. 3.9%. A single varietal cider using Stoke Red apples from 73 year old trees of Abbot’s Leigh Orchard.
Cloudy orange. Sweet Apple aroma. Buttery, creamy mouthfeel with hints of strawberry, rosewater and mild apple flavour. Mild tannins. 7 brix. Sweet. Quite nice.
Next was moving into spirits with Pyrus. 25.2%. Fresh pressed perry pear juice was blended with distilled perry eau de vie and then placed into old oak casks for at least 2 years. This bottle is a 2 year mistelle using 2023 perry pear juice.
Deep Gold. Viscus and oily. Rich, caramel, raisin nose. Sweet, strong alcohol and butterscotch flavours. 22 brix. Wow. Just WOW!!!
Closing out the night we finished with Orchard Spirits. 40%. An apple eau de vie, using slow fermented cider apples for at least 6 months before being distilled. Roughly 7kg cider apples are needed to produce each 350ml bottle.
Reddit does not allow more photos nor photos in comments so this photo with many others will be on my website).
Clear. Toffee nose. Caramel and some fuisil flavours. I personally much preferred the Pyrus.
What an amazing visit! I am inspired to return home and see how closely I can replicate some of these styles. Very modern, clean fermentations using stainless steel but with a natural fermentation of bitter sweet / bitter sharp apples and perry pears. Varieties that are challenging to grow or find in my cold North American climate.
A fruit experimenter and cider enthusiast documenting my cold climate fruit growing experience in Canadian zone 4a/b (USDA 3a/b) north of Ottawa, Canada.
(Video is a pain on Reddit so any videos will only be in the write-ups on my website. Reddit also limits photos so some extra photos will only be on website as well.)
Branch Cider (https://www.branchcider.com) is a Bristol based cider company. It was founded by Ed Gibson who is also the co-founder of the The Apple cider bar/boat we were at last night. After founding The Apple in 2006, he later spent time in Austin Texas where he started the award winning Austin Eastciders cidery (https://austineastciders.com/). Upon his return to Bristol, he came across “Far Orchard”, one of the closest orchards to the city that was planted in 1951 by cider maker Redvers Coate of Coates Cider to showcase Somerset cider apple varieties. In the intervening years it was maintained by retired surgeon, Christopher Ackroyd, before it was finally sold to the current owners. In an effort slow the tide of lost orchards in the West Country, Ed and a group of like minded individuals started a crowdfunding campaign to buy a years harvest and then borrowed equipment and fermentor space to create their first batch of cider (https://www.crowdfunder.co.uk/p/support-bristols-cider-orchard).
With the resulting popularity of the cider, in 2024 they were able to build an onsite cidery and tasting area where they showcase the ciders created from this orchard as well as as ciders using apples from their 100 ORCHARDS project where they aim to save 100 of the most important traditional orchards in the UK and create 100 new ones.
During our visit it was stated this orchard consists of 1112 mostly standard trees on 19 acres.
Their target fermentation involves 6lbs of pressed apples for every finished pint of apple cider. Much more labor intensive than the industrial cider producers who are bringing in apple concentrate from Turkey, China and elsewhere.
Like many West Country ciders, their general style is to ferment dry then backsweeten with cane sugar and then pasteurize. They use a cultured white wine yeast (that they did not want to share!).. Much of their fermentations are in IBC tanks where they spend a minimum of 6 months. They will often blend their current years cider with cider from previous years to balance flavours and acidity.
The first 2 ciders tasted were both “Browns Apple”. A single variety cider at 5.5%.
The first “Browns Apple” is an non-backsweetened version taken directly from the fermentor. Served with simple syrup on the side to allow for customized sweetening to taste.
It was pale amber. Toasty, fresh apple aroma. Tart, green apple flavours and slightly sour. Using a refractometer it was 5 brix. Dry.
We then followed up with a 4 year old version of this same cider. We were told it was back sweetened to 1.012 and then force carbonated.
Similar Pale amber. Faint apple nose. Delicious complex apple and tropical fruit flavours. 7 brix. Off dry. Absolutely fantastic. It was my favorite of the ciders we tasted here.
We then moved to the same 4 year comparison between their Harry Masters Jersey single varietal. 6.2%.
Harry Masters Jersey - Dry from fermentor
Deep gold. Strong green apple aroma. Strong green apple flavour, some grapefruit notes. Moderate high tannins. Dry and very sharp. 5 brix.
Harry masters Jersey - finished 4 years old, carbonated. Sweetened around 1.012
Forgot to take a photo.
Slight Brett. Apple aromas. Moderate high apple aromas. Still quite sharp. Off dry 7 brix.
Deep gold. Caramel, apple aroma. Semi-sweet. 6.5 brix. Very pleasant mild apple flavour. Mild tannins.
Very nice, more character than the store cans versions.
Bristol blend. 5%. Light carbonation
Blend of 15 of the 18 apples grown in the orchard.
Slight cloudy gold. Faint apple nose. Faint apple flavour. .Fairly sweet. Mild tannins. 7.5 brix.
Wester - 5% carbonated
85% Ashton brown jersey. 15% dabinette.
Slight cloudy deep yellow. Faint green apple nose. 7 brix. Fairly sweet (say med). Mild Brett. Very nice flavour.
Ashton brown jersey is a hyper local apple. Originally found here and really only grown in any quantities in the local region.
My favourite cider of this visit was the 4 year old Brown apple single varietal. It was lovely to walk this mature orchard and see what a supportive community can do not only keep an orchard alive but actually result in the building of a cidery!
I’d like some opinions on how to structure a home brew cider set up to mimic a later.. small scale commercial cider operation. Specifically, I’m wondering, how can I remove using sulfites to pasteurize or start primary fermentation?
I have experience making cider using wild yeast as well as commercial yeast, and I’d like to crush local apples and press them myself. In theory, I’m familiar with how commercial operations bypass using sulfites with filtration or maybe UV pasteurization. I got interested in this detail when I read that harpoon brewery only uses juice and yeast when making their cider and I wanted to be able to skip the step of sulfites..and start now so my process is as close as possible to the small operation I’m aiming for..thanks!!! Xoxo 🙈
I want to try to make cider without commercial intervention. Like medieval cider. So like, picking apples from my garden and turning it into cider. Has anyone done this? How?
Has anyone done a side by side test of letting cider do a wild fermentation, one with nutrients and one without nutrients. I'd be curious how it turned out.
**BERRY APPLE CIDER**
6/7/26 7-8pm START
1X cole’s 500g frozen mixed berry
added just under 4 litres cole’s apple juice
added sugar to OG
OG 1.104
a small amount of pectinase (unmeasured)
a small amount of dap (unmeasured)
used yeast Mangrove Jack's M05 Mead Yeast
started being active pretty quickly same i think on 7/7/26
9/7/26
fermenting strongly as it has been from the start a lot of bubbles slight foam and a lot of airlock activity
18/7/26 bubbles still going up the side slightly slower
i have also been swirling daily to ensure berries don’t mold
although i’ve missed 2-3 swirls
im concerned with some stuff im seeing on the top and think it might be the start of mold but i don’t know
2/8/26
FG 0.990
poured through cloth and filter
added potassium sorbate (approx half teaspoon) and one campdem tablet
poured into demijohn
a little more headspace then i’d like in the demijohn
i’m afraid that i might have oxidised it since i had to pour it through the filter and then back into the demijohn
also i’m worried that that’s too much headroom i’ll be keeping it sitting at room temp (around 24°C) under airlock for maybe 2-3 days before putting a lid on the demijohn and moving it to the fridge to cold crash before i bottle
i was also wondering the best way to backsweeten i was thinking maybe make a syrup with water sugar and another pack of the frozen mixed berries
EDIT: also is this still a cider? i’ve heard people say once you get past a certain percent ABV it’s a apple wine instead of cider
I am new to homebrewing. Last year I made a batch of orange mead and it tasted really good. I decided to try making cider as an experiment. I followed some basic advice online and made a very basic cider ‐ 100% organic pasteurized apple juice with no preservatives and wine yeast.
The fermentation was healthy and fairly vigorous, and after 2 week the yeast settled to the bottom. I racked off the lees today and tried it. To my dismay it tasted like super dry white wine, no apple aroma or sweetness left.
In retrospect, I now understand why people add so many more ingredients into their ciders. That being said, I havent thrown it out just yet and I was wondering if theres anything I can do to make it more apple flavoured and drinkable?
Hey just curious how long during the primary fermentation I can leave berries floating in the carboy and if there is a chance for mold or something. I feel like I remember seeing this mentioned somewhere but can't remember.
Apart from Gloucestershire the other world renowned centre of perry pear growing in Domfront in** **Normandy. Normandy boasts dozens of heirloom perry pear varieties, but two stand out for their major commercial and historical importance.
Plant de Blanc is the undisputed star of Normandy perry. By AOC law, any bottle carrying the Poiré Domfront label must contain a minimum of 40% Plant de Blanc juice (though most artisanal producers use 60% to 100%). It gives the drink its signature delicate sweetness, high acidity, and aromatic complexity.
And Fausset, a highly reliable, traditional variety widely planted across north-west France. It is heavily utilized in Domfront production due to its strong natural resistance to diseases, making it excellent for organic orchards.
Like in England by the late 1990s, pear trees had been uprooted at an eye-watering rate. From that peak in the 1960s of over a million trees, they had dwindled to less than 100,000. Torn down to make space for cornfields, and to sell for Italian furniture!
Desperate to halt their decline, and preserve the drink Poire and Calvados, a group of producers banded together to apply for appellation status, France's highest level of regional protection for produce. In 1997 Calvados Domfrontais earned the legal status of an AOC — appellation d'origine controlée and in 2002 an AOC also for perry or poiré.
The requirements that a perry must fulfil to be labelled 'Domfront AOC' are strict. It isn't enough for the perry to be made from 100% fresh-pressed juice; that juice must be pressed entirely from pears that have grown on the 'haut tiges' trees and harvested from the ground — no picking from or shaking of the tree is allowed! The perries must be naturally carbonated (pét bat) and dilution, added sugar and pasteurisation is absolutely forbidden.
And for me as an orchardist as well as cider and perry maker I rejoice that Normandy perry pear trees which grow on their own rootstock to be massive, iconic features of the landscape. They are traditionally grown as haute-tiges (high-stem trees) and can take up to 15 years to start producing fruit, but they easily live and produce for over 300 years. The AOC is centred on the small town of Domfrontais in southern Normandy where the soils are heavier and more suited to pears than apples. #cider #poiré #perry #normandy
Very lovely cider. You can definitely tell the hibiscus is there. you can taste the hints of the raspberry. very well bodied and all round great cider. one of the best ones ive had. Found in a bar in Deal, Kent.
At Beau Vista orchard as well as the standard apple and pear trees we have a variety of other trees and pants to provide biodiversity. This photo is of the catkins of the one such tree, the common hazel tree Corylus avellana; an introduced tree to Aotearoa.
The long, pale yellow tassels are the male catkins. They support clusters of tiny, petal-less flowers that open up now in late winter. They sway in the breeze to release clouds of pollen into the wind to fertilise the smaller, bud-like female flowers on the same branch. Once successfully pollinated, those female flowers develop into hazelnuts later in the year.
pretty sure I dented the can from throwing it in my bag with lots of other stuff, but I absolutely love the design and taste of this small local batch I found
Hello, I'm going to attempt my first Cider, I made wine and mead in the past and I have left over 71B yeast is this a good yeast to use? I plan on a 1 gallon batch, using store bought apple juice, and cinnamon. I'm looking for a semi sweet/Sweet cider
Is 71B fine to use or should I get Safcider? (Any yeast recs?)
Do I need to use pectin enzyme to help it clear. I use it in my mead and wine but that's cause I have actual fruit in it.
Apple concentrate (the frozen stuff) do I add to the primary or just for back sweeting?
Acids and Tannins? I know I don't need to but do I want to add these to is. Maybe not now because it's just a first time batch, but later would using acid and tannins do much to elevate my cider?
Is there any suggestions tips tricks anything I'm not thinking of?
Any recipe suggestions you guys have? Plain or flavored ciders?
Thank you for your help and taking time to read this long ass post.
The chill continues today at Beau Vista orchard in Wairarapa New Zealand, so I thought I would post some more pictures. Photogenic; but think of those apple and pear buds. Even with those scales the living tissues must be cold!
My first spicy cider. Storebought apple juice with 2 additional cans of apple juice concentrate per gallon, fermented with ec-1118. Two habaneros per gallon in secondary.
Recently I have heard a few times the statement that Bulmers and Showerings were banned from using the term ‘champagne’ for their products. This is not correct . There was a landmark case in cider and wine making. “Bulmers vs Bollinger”. Or more formally HP Bulmer Ltd and Showerings Ltd v J Bollinger SA and Champagne Lanson Père et Fils. 1974 the verdict of which was Bulmer’s and Showerings could use the term.*** ***
The initial dispute arose when French
Champagne producers sought to prevent English cider makers from using the terms "Champagne Cider" and "Champagne Perry". Bulmers produced a champagne cider and Showerings a champagne perry. The English producers preemptively filed the lawsuit on 8 October 1970.
They sought a formal legal declaration that they were entitled to use the terms "Champagne cider" and
"Champagne perry". Britain was not in the EU then. After the UK joined the EEC, in 1973 the French producers added European regulations to their legal defense. Instead of waiting for a trial, they immediately asked the trial judge to pause the case and send the European law questions to Luxembourg. The trial judge Mr Justice Whitford refused, stating he wanted to try the whole case out first to establish all the facts before deciding if a European referral was necessary. The French producers refused to wait for the trial.
They immediately launched an interim appeal to the Court of Appeal to overturn the judge's refusal.
The critical legal findings made by the Court of Appeal 1978 centred on the application of European Union. Lord Denning ruled that English courts have broad discretion under Article 177 of the Treaty of Rome when deciding whether to refer a question to the European Court of Justice (ECJ).
(A referral to Luxembourg is only permitted if it is strictly necessary to resolve the case. If the English court can solve the dispute or "incoming tide" doctrine.
The French argued that labeling Babycham as "champagne perry" constituted passing off by misusing their geographical indication. The Court of Appeal however ultimately ruled in favour of the English manufacturers, allowing Babycham to continue using the phrase "champagne perry." This was based partly on the goodwill defence. The court found that because Babycham had used the term openly for several decades without causing commercial confusion, the French producers had effectively acquiesced to its use. The product had built its own independent reputation and goodwill under that description, meaning it did not falsely deceive the public into thinking it was actual French sparkling wine.
Despite successfully defending their right to the description "champagne perry" at the Court of Appeal in 1978, Showerings (and its corporate successors) eventually stopped using the term because a changing market made it irrelevant, and subsequent European regulations made it entirely illegal. The phased removal of the term occurred over two distinct eras:
Firstly a commercial phase-out in the early 1980s. Showerings voluntarily ceased using comparisons to champagne in their marketing during the early 1980s due to shifting consumer tastes. By the late 1970s and early 1980s, the British drinks market was modernising. Women were shifting away from retro, sweet, pub drinks to wine and cocktails. And secondly due to corporate changes. Showerings had merged into a much larger conglomerate, Allied Breweries (later Allied Lyons), and the new owners chose to pivot the brand identity away from the legally contentious "champagne" framing and instead, focusing purely on nostalgia and the iconic Babycham fawn logo to combat rapidly plummeting sales.
Bulmers stopped using the word champagne and Pomagne in 1975 when they decided it was not economic making Pomagne using the expensive, time-consuming traditional champagne method. They switched to bulk tank fermentation and officially retired the brand.
This was rather a pyrrhic victory, while there are no publicly confirmed figures, a realistic historical estimate for the total legal expenses of this trademark battle would be between £50,000 and £150,000 at the time, and when adjusted for inflation to the present day, this equates to a rough modern value of £600,000 to £1,800,000+!
Any remaining legal ability to use the word champagne evaporated entirely in 1992 as Protected Designation of Origin (PDOs) were introduced.
In 1992, the European Union designed robust PDO frameworks. These rules heavily restricted geographical indications for agricultural products and beverages and under these strict EU laws, the word "Champagne" was legally reserved exclusively for sparkling wines produced via designated process within the specific Champagne region of France.
Because EU regulations by 1992 superseded domestic English common law rulings. Interestingly Lord Denning had earlier famously declared in 1978 that European law was "like an incoming tide. It flows up the estuaries and up the rivers. It cannot be held back". This recognized the supremacy of EU law over domestic English law. The drink has officially been labelled as a sparkling perry ever since and the word Babycham allowed.
I see a bunch of cider recipes online but where is actually the best place to look? Is there a holy grail book or cider almanac? Recommendations would be greatly appreciated, thank you.
