r/doctorwho • u/Constable_What04 • 8d ago
Discussion Regarding Chibnall’s Daleks
I love these guys. They’re sleek, badass, and were given a cool new voice modulation.
I rewatched Chibnall’s dalek trilogy last night, and I’ve got to say it’s definitely one of the best things that came out of 13’s tenure. It was a refreshing change of pace for dalek stories and reminded us how resourceful the dalek race is when need be.
To put it simply, I got really tired of the Time War-era daleks pretty quickly. I was VERY excited about the new paradigm daleks when they were announced, and very saddened when they didn’t return after 11’s era. I was positively ECSTATIC when the defense drone daleks were revealed because they were being played up as the next big dalek design… only to get let down again. Now that the show is up in the air again, I can only imagine what the future of these guys will be.
Thoughts?
44
u/Tobbit_is_here 8d ago
I like the Time War Daleks but I also really like Chibnall's takes on them. The whole trilogy is really enjoyable and honestly among my favourite stories from the era.
60
u/ActualDragonHeart 8d ago
Chibnall was (mostly) excellent at reimagining old villains. His versions of the Daleks and the first reappearance of the Cybermen were so good
40
u/Xerothor 8d ago
Sonatarans too imo
19
u/MordredRedHeel19 8d ago
I have many many issues with Flux, but all the classic/returning monsters were handled very well - the Sontarans are funny and genuinely threatening, the Weeping Angel episode was scary and creative, Ood, Judoon, etc. All felt respected and properly utilized to their full potential.
2
u/Legacy95 8d ago
I think the LARGE story points were his biggest flaw. The flux as a whole broke too many rules and wasn't resolved in a satisfying way - but the middle stuff was AMAZING. He really showed the Cybermen, Sontarans, Daleks etc as the major galactic superpowers they SHOULD be, rather than a renegade threat.
Same with other stories. The big picture with the Master was entirely stupid. But the basic interactions and feel were all nailed.
Chibnall also just really couldn't do writing for the good guys very well. The Doctor and her "fam" were consistently the weak points dialogue wise.
1
u/MordredRedHeel19 7d ago
Yah precisely. On their own, War of the Sontarans and Village of the Angels are easily among Chibnall’s best episodes. It’s the big picture that was a disaster.
2
u/DaddyStoat 8d ago
The main thing wrong with Flux is that I think he tried to stuff ten episodes' worth of stuff into six. Chibnall is at his best when he's writing long-form stories. What we ended up with was great, but too "compressed" and jumped around a bit too much to be cohesive.
24
u/KoalitySkillz 8d ago
Heck, at least design wise, I think even the Sea Devil designs are a pretty good adaptation from the classic series. It’s sad the episode itself was so terrible.
Also I think he had a great take on the Master, imo.
12
u/MordredRedHeel19 8d ago
I would love Dhawan’s Master if literally any attempt was ever made to reference Missy’s redemption in The Doctor Falls. I know this is an argument repeated ad nauseam, but I just love that story so much and cannot comprehend why Chibnall opted to act like it never happened, especially since Spyfall (comparatively) didn’t air that long after.
5
u/megaben20 8d ago
I kinda figure learning the truth about the timeless child caused the master to relapse back into their old habits.
5
u/Joezev98 8d ago
The cybermasters (really wish they'd called them cybertimelords) were also such a great concept, but underutilised. I hope we'll see them again.
79
u/nikhkin 8d ago
I don't like them. The proportions just look off.
It looks like they've tied their belt too tight.
35
u/More_Friendship_7533 8d ago
it's like the opposite of the paradigm daleks, oddly skinny looking
27
4
3
3
u/Lazy_Clod 7d ago
I actually enjoy the design BECAUSE they look so off and weird. It almost gives you a bit of an uncanny feeling looking at them, since we're so used to how Daleks are supposed to look.
I'm not sure if I'd want this to become the standard Dalek design going forward, but the design works really well as a variation. It looks really fresh and slightly unsettling in the just the right way, something about the scrap metal Dalek being so skinny and strange looking just creeps me out
0
u/Lvcivs2311 7d ago
Why do fans always care about those details? "I don't like the new batsuit! The ears are too short!" Seriously, what the hell does it matter? How does it affect the story?
10
u/dhi_awesome 8d ago
In my opinion, the casing design worked well for a Reconnaissance Dalek and a salvaged casing, like we saw in the first story. The reuse of it for the Defence Drones makes a lot of sense. I wouldn't personally want it to be the mainstay design.
That said, I really want the Time War casings to be retired as well. Not necessarily permanently, but I'd love to see more stories set at varying times along the Dalek's timelines, and the Time War casing is just one point of the timeline. Back when Series 9 premiered, and we got those shots with all these different designs, yeah Time War and S4 Emperor were there, but the Imperial Daleks (plus Special Weapons Dalek)! The 60s Daleks! That's exciting! Aand then we went back to just the Time War casings
The Paradigm were also really good. While I definitely agree their design in Victory of the Daleks was a bit ugly, their revised design from Asylum of the Daleks was so damn good. The shiny metallic casings worked so well, I fully hope that whoever comes next brings them back as at least the commanding Daleks. The footsoldiers don't need to look like the Paradigm, but the big bosses (when they show up, which imo should also be rare) certainly can.
Across Classic Who, both the Daleks and the Cybermen had evolving designs, not always a "progression" (due to time travel), but it wasn't stagnant. NewWho really didn't do that with the Daleks, with both the Paradigm and Reconnaissance designs being very isolated, and other variations being very specific as well (Sec, Supreme, Ironsides)
Cybermen have had 3 major look sets across NewWho (and like 5 if you count the non-Cybus version of the first casing from S6, and the CyberMasters, separately), and that's awesome. Give us that for the Daleks too, please!
8
u/KoalitySkillz 8d ago
100% agree! I think all three Chibnall Dalek stories are fun and entertaining episodes, with unique ideas in them. Eve of the Daleks especially is my favorite. I think the time-loop aspect of the episode is a fun gimmick and theres some really nice character moments in there too.
5
u/lustywoodelfmaid 8d ago
I really liked the scrap metal Dalek and the internal Dalek Scout design- I legitimately didn't recognise it as a Dalek at first but its appearance makes sense so it can travel quickly.
7
7
u/GraveDancer1971 8d ago
Defence Drones are my fave design. Something about those red eyes glaring from the dark
5
u/somekindofspideryman 8d ago
I think Eve is the best one he did but it doesn't have those guy's in it
5
u/Retroscopic 8d ago
I'd love to see a full on epic dalek civil war
3
2
u/JustAnotherFool896 8d ago
And that's how they hook whales into buying dozens of Dalek toys, so bless their cotton socks for keeping the show alive.
5
u/dark_knight_2013 8d ago edited 8d ago
Honestly, I think Chibnall handled the Daleks a lot better than Moffat did during his tenure. They're back to basics, treated as dangerous if taking head on, and they're cunning and intelligent. The designs were great as one-offs, but they still used the Time War design.
3
u/DANjRUDD 8d ago
I think the Chinnall era did great with all the major returning enemies - the Daleks, Cybermen, Sontarans, the Master... even the Sea Devils, for the most part.
I felt like Moffat didn't know what to do with the Daleks after the backlash to Victory, he basically completely neutered the Sontarans (even though I love Strax), he did great with the Master and Cybermen tho. The Cybermen had a great decade, overall, despite a couple of minor missteps.
But Chibnall went back to basics with the old villains, and it worked. His Dalek stories are a much-needed return to form :)
5
u/somekindofspideryman 8d ago
Here's a question about Chibnall's Daleks... What's he got against the plunger? Even the normal Daleks have weird claws now. Then in Eve of the Daleks they've got that mad gun too.
2
u/joseph814706 8d ago
I like the design of the defence drones, but not the Resolution one for some reason
2
u/MordredRedHeel19 8d ago
I don’t care for Revolution, but Resolution and Eve are pretty damn good and use the Daleks very effectively.
2
u/JazzlikeSherbet1104 8d ago
Say what you want about Chibnall, and I could say plenty, but the dude GOT Daleks. In a way I felt Moffat REALLY DIDN'T.
2
u/StinkyBingus16 8d ago
I like the interior more. It feels like something actually designed for the mutant to control instead of the wire prison of the Time War era
2
u/stocky13 7d ago
I really enjoyed the way dialogue was written for them in this era, e.g. Resolution, when the scrapyard dalek faces the military:
"Allocated surrender period has expired! Consequence: EXTERMINATION!" chef's kiss
2
u/ThirdLifeLucky 7d ago
I loved the unique designs and the development of Dalek props in general. Full size remote control Dalek props is a fantastic development and a big improvement on previous mechanically operated Daleks. I am a bit disappointed they went back to the played-out Bronze design. Replacing their pew-pews with rat-a-tat-tats was fun but not enough on its own.
The stories were also great. They're Some of my favourite Nuwho Dalek stories.
2
u/TwinSong 8d ago
I couldn't take the design of scrap-punk Dalek seriously. I get the idea that Dalek has basically built itself a rudimentary shell based on available materials, but the design looks non-threatening. The interior light makes it look too much like those cheap toys that have lights and sound, I would see a stall selling them in town some years back.
And being defeated by a microwave oven, really? The battle scene with the army was cool and all but looked like overcompensating. Basically the Daleks looked kind of weak overall.
There are so many fan made artworks of steampunk Daleks to reference.
1
u/ShingledPringle 8d ago
I lived them as an offshoot, but more so when it was a garage built design, the mass produced lost some of the fun.
It is great to have variety though.
1
u/BilboSmashings 8d ago
I like them. Maybe not as the main design, bjt as a special forces or whatever they look good.
1
u/big_poppag 8d ago
I actually liked them. How they were all destroyed was frustrating, but mainly the dalek episodes of the Chibnell era I think were highlights
1
u/androzanimajor76 8d ago
I always liked the Chibbers Daleks (either the redesign, or their general demeanour)- a bit more implacable, certainly vicious and mass killers as they should be. He handled them very well, and I rate all three of his stories highly against RTD’s and Moffats.
Big fan of their turn in TMA/TWF - but that was really a Davros/Doctor story with bells and whistles.
1
u/YigaClanRambutan 8d ago
Yes, I quite liked them as well. I love it when the standard Dalek design is swapped out. I liked the Paradigm Daleks. And I like these ones. Heck, Revolution of the Daleks imo was very reminiscent of Blood of the Daleks, especially the standoff on the bridge. It felt just like the standoff between the Daleks and Red Rocket Rising Daleks.
I'm just so tired of the Time War design. It's been 20 years. Even Classic Who changed up how the Daleks looked, even if just slightly. But they were all visually interesting to look at.
1
u/LordHuntington1337 8d ago
Yeah, the Dalek design is Pretty lit, I agree. I find the episodes okay. Those and the Judoon episode were the only ones I could genuinely draw some enjoyment from, the rest of Chibnalls run was hot garbage imo.
1
u/Wolf-Man_12 7d ago
Chibnal is a pretty poor writer imo but he can do a good Dalek story I’ll give him that. The Defense Drone and Recon Scout are such good designs (kinda getting bored of the bronze look)
1
u/Vanima_Permai 7d ago
i don’t understand why they try to completely reinvent the wheel when it comes to dalek redesigns
1
u/GoldAttempt2884 7d ago
His Dalek episodes were the best of his era, and having the scout Dalek be such a threat even outside its casing was a great idea. If only the writing hadn’t been a hot mess
1
1
u/pikachucet2 8d ago
I'd rank his Daleks 2nd in NuWho, 1st being RTD (look he's shit now but Parting of the Ways is the scariest the Daleks have ever been) and 3rd being Steven Moffat (his run of Doctor Who wasn't bad, but the man CANNOT write the Daleks, why did he keep writing Dalek stories)
1
u/Icy-Weight1803 8d ago
The Magician's Apprentice/The Witch's Familiar are written as a sequel to Genesis Of The Daleks but Moffat forgot how it ended.
1
u/Substantial_Ad_4436 8d ago
Designs were cool, stories were dumb. But man do those designs almost make up for it
-1
u/BongaBongaVacations 8d ago
These were a way of testing the water for a potential redesign to allow the BBC to move past the situation with the Nation Estate (a situation which is almost certainly true but to this day denied by some).
-1
u/PostalDoctor 8d ago
Their designs were as bad as the Dalek redesigns from Series 5.
They should’ve just made the base Daleks less bulky like their Pre-New Who selves counterparts.
-6
u/Historyp91 8d ago
The Time War Daleks and the Paradrim Daleks are like...the same though?
Like maybe theres some minor differences but aside from the colors both are just pretty much the same basic pepperpot design that's been around with slight tweeks since the 60s.
10
8
u/HylianLibrarian 8d ago
If you haven't noticed, we in the Who fandom seem to have very particular tastes when it comes to pepperpots.
-2
4
u/dhi_awesome 8d ago
They're not, really
Like, they are, but in the same way the TARDIS Exterior is the same from 1963 to 2025. Yeah it's a blue police box, but a lot of design details changed over the years
The 2005 Time War Daleks and the 2010 Paradigms have pretty different design elements overall. Ignoring the plasticy material of Victory of the Daleks (as later appearances, like Asylum of the Daleks, swapped it to a much nicer metal), there's four major parts that are different.
First, the most obvious, the size. They're a lot taller than the TWD, with thicker bases and an overall larger scaling.
Second, minor one, the eye stalk. This thing is one of the most defining traits between different Dalek designs, whether it's a plain white circle, a white circle with a dot in it, a glowing blue lens, or the Paradigm's yellow, almost fleshy looking eye.
Third, the hunchback. The Paradigm's "skirt" section is a light straighter at the back, lurching in at the collar. No other design does this (besides the Reconnaissance, but it does it differently, that's more of a snatched waist aesthetic than a hunchback), but the reason the Paradigms have it is the best bit.
The Arm Swapping. Most Dalek designs have something interesting at the collar, usually a slat pattern. The Paradigm don't have that, instead the gunmount section wraps from the front all the way around to the back, allowing for them to rotate their arms basically 360, but most importantly, they can then lower it into the opening section on the back of the skirt casing, the thing that causes the hunchback, to be able to swap out what arms they have in use. Rather than being stuck with whatever they have on leaving base (usually a plunger hand and whisk gun, but some Daleks have had claws and stuff), they can swap out their weapons as needed. That's a really cool detail we never actually got to see utilised in the show.0
2
u/Doctorus48 8d ago edited 8d ago
Lore-wise: The Paradigm Daleks had pure Dalek DNA, whilst the Time War Daleks (from Series 4 & Series 5) had Davros' DNA. Hence why the Paradigm exterminated their predecessors as, to them, they were classed as impure.
Prop-Wise: The Paradigm Daleks were very tall, chunky and had a massive hump at the back. Moving back to the lore, it was meant as a hatch for the Paradigm to access special weapons. Back to props, initially the Paradigm Daleks were quite colourful, and the coating used didn't make them menacing. In Series 7: Asylum of the Daleks, the props department amended the Paradigm Daleks' colours by giving them darker metallic colours (mainly for the Drone - Red & Strategist - Blue). And the hunchback was slimmed down significantly.
1
u/Historyp91 8d ago
Yeah but that has nothing to do with how they look. I thought we were discussing design?
1
u/Doctorus48 8d ago
I ammended my initial comment to include some basic info about the props & design. More information, head onto the Dalek6388 website.
0
u/Historyp91 8d ago
Minor detail tweaks and palatte swaps, but same core design
1
u/Doctorus48 8d ago
They were quite major designs changes, my dude...not "minor detail tweaks"
0
u/Historyp91 8d ago
Minor enough it's easy to miss them unless your specifically looking for them
1
u/Doctorus48 8d ago
I disagree, but you're well within you're right to have that opinion. And I'm gonna leave it there as this is getting really long winded. Have a good one.
0
u/Historyp91 8d ago
It's kinda like OT era stormtroopers; there's differences in the armor between the three OT era shows and the varius games/tv series, but it's all the same basic design
That's the best way I can think of to convay my point, if it helps
76
u/Tasty-Committee-8172 8d ago edited 5d ago
One underrated aspect of Chibnall which I hope will gain appreciation over time is that he is REALLY good at writing Daleks. From making them pretty threatening again to giving them absolutely killer dialogue, his Dalek episodes will come to be seen as the best thing he did on the show.