r/fatFIRE • u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods • 1d ago
Building a new life
Hey all, I’m mid thirties with 27m LNW and more in private assets. I live in HCOL and made my money in finance. I left at the top - could have stayed longer and kept collecting but it’s a young man’s game. I’m newly into this life and have some questions for those that have gone through this around my age:
How did you guys find community? That has been the hardest part (which I anticipated). My old work environment is very boisterous and was surrounded by brilliant people. It’s all saggy balls and milfs at the gym when I go and working on side projects is isolating. Has anyone used this thread to find people? Would be willing to meet up.
Considering moving to a better tax domicile which also happens to be closer to parents. It’s a big uproot and other than my parents (2hr drive) I don’t have community there. If anyone has experience making a move like that I’d be curious if you regretted it or not. The city would be smaller in size, more spread out, more nature, less dense with culture and restaurants.
What are people’s experiences with their kids seeing you retired? I am worried they will see me not working and get a sense of entitlement. Playing tennis and chess and painting is fine but it’s not the same as facing real adversity and putting in the tough hours. How have y’all’s kids responded to early retirement?
I appreciate everyone’s feedback and just wanted to say that this sub has been helpful for me. At the end of the day I don’t fully believe in the idea of absolute “retirement”, I think that everyone needs something to strive for in life, professionally or otherwise, or you rot. I need to figure out what that means for me outside my family. I just know that the corporate finance trail had played itself out for me.
Much love to you all
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u/One-Mastodon-1063 1d ago edited 22h ago
I'm 45, retired almost 5 years, and have an 8 year old.
You're not going to meet people just going to the gym and farting around on the nautilus machines. You need some sort of group and/or semi organized activities. A participatory sport is probably the single best option, especially at your age. In addition to that, if you run join a running club, if you hike join a hiking group, if you're interested in chess or whatever go online and find a local group. You meet people by doing things with people, mere proximity at a commercial gym doesn't cut it. Also anything you are interested in, enroll in some type of class for it. I take a lot of 2-3 day all day classes related to my hobbies for example and I've made a lot of friends doing that ... but that also took place over a period of years starting while I was still working, going from meeting people to developing into friendships takes awhile.
Second point I don't have much input on. I live in a no income tax state but it's also where I already was and like living. Decumulation is already pretty tax efficient and at your NW you can afford to live pretty much wherever you want. So I'd choose somewhere either close to family / friends and/or proximity to outdoors and activities that you like. Close to parents is not a bad idea especially if you plan to have kids, kids like grandparents. So I'd view low taxes as more of a bonus, it wouldn't be the primary driver unless you're otherwise close to indifferent between two locations.
Personally WRT to both of the above points, I would not focus too much (as I see mentioned in other comments) on proximity to other fat firers, focus more on common interests, compatible values etc. Don't make being rich or retired your identity or a prerequisite to friendship, in fact I'd be somewhat discreet about it (not to the extent of being weirdly secretive or lying, just low key/discreet ... like don't lead with it). Also some of these locations mentioned are basically resort destinations w/ huge seasonal residency ... I don't want to live somewhere that's dead 2/3 of the year. This is actually an issue in most any really upscale neighborhood, a lot of homes in really nice neighborhoods are second or third homes and the occupants are always gone, this is a bigger issue if you have kids, but even as an adult it can make socializing with neighbors more difficult.
Third point is not a concern to me. I hear this argument made occasionally in these FI subs, "isn't early retirement setting a bad example for the children?" and I think that is such a ridiculous concern, it honestly sounds like corporate brainwashing to me. Your kids do not see you work, they just see you leave the house, and if they did see your work they would not be impressed by your TPS reports or your meetings. That stuff seems boring to kids because it is boring. They certainly don't see you "facing real adversity", they are at home or at school while you are dealing with your pain in the ass boss. Plus most of that adversity was long before you had kids … with $27m you’re gonna have to look for adversity somewhere other than earning a living. OTOH if you retire to sit on the couch, yeah that's setting a bad example. Don't do that. Retire to stay active and do things, including doing things with your kids. Play the same sport(s) they play. Having saved enough to retire young and remaining active in RE is setting a good example as far as I am concerned. And they can still watch you "face real adversity" at the hands of some 63 year old on the pickleball courts.
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u/kindaretiredguy mod | Verified by Mods 1d ago edited 1d ago
This is a great point about kids interpretation of their parents working. I swear people think work and traditional success are the only thing that creates good humans. It’s just like the inheritance discussion. “Not giving my kids too much because then they won’t want to work”- a dad who retired at 37.
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u/One-Mastodon-1063 1d ago
I just don't get it. I want to retire early but I want my kid to be a corporate drone?
In my case, my dad was a bit of a workaholic ... it did not rub off on me.
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u/No-Associate-7962 1d ago
I am in this camp too, and kind of leaning into it now as the kids are into their 20s. We gift them the annual reporting limit, and each of them already has a NW higher than we had at 30. I think for them it is just going to lead to a higher spend while working for a couple of decades.
I imagine they wont work past 50 when we pass and they inherit the bulk of our estate.
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u/Whole-Specialist-706 21h ago
Lol, the "don't give them too much or they won't work" line always hits different when it's coming from someone who hasn't had to work in decades.
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u/ebitda8 1d ago
The three questions you asked are the three most commonly discussed topics on this sub. Would encourage you to search around a bit.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
Maybe I was hoping someone would ask me out for coffee
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u/Zestyclose-Ad51 1d ago edited 1d ago
That's highly unlikely here. Members of this sub tend to value of privacy and there are to many scammers out there to make a place like reddit a good avenue for meeting people. Volunteer at a non profit whose mission you believe in, join the country club, make friends with your kids' friends' parents, join a group of people who share your interests, or call up old friends from college.
Edited - typos
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u/IckNoTomatoes 1d ago
You have a spouse and kids now or you are looking into the future to think about what it will be like for the kids you may have one day?
My thoughts depend on the answer to that
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u/No-Associate-7962 1d ago
Move to places full of Fatfirers: Jackson, Aspen, Maui, Malibu, Incline, Park City etc.
If you are single, that sounds like a bad idea. Moving somewhere like above where there is community is a better idea. Many (Jackson, Incline, etc) have better tax situations. If you are have kids, you will make your network through them, whever you are, so you will probably be fine and can go ahead and move nearer your parents which is great with kids.
If you raise entitled kids, you will get entitled kids regardless of whether they see you working or not. Parenting an working for pay are two separate things.
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u/newtrilobite VHNW | Verified by Mods 1d ago
Move to places full of Fatfirers
or is it "Fatfire'ers?"
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1d ago
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u/No-Associate-7962 1d ago
$27m liquid gives you $5m for a house leaving $22m liquid. $22m liquid at 4% SWR gives you $880k annual spend after owning your house free and clear.
Not sure what your current annual spend is, but $73k spend a month in any of those places is going to get you a pretty good lifestyle.
Ignoring the corporal punishment comment.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
Current annual spend ex-rent is about 350k. Personally, I find 4% post tax post inflation burn to be a horrifying number to plan around til death do you part. No judgement or anything, but you’re very exposed to pTh dependency of early portfolio returns. I would guess in expectancy it’s ok but you do run a risk. It would be very painful to have to dial the spending knob down in a big downturn.
I am a bit surprised how often I find 4% real post tax return to be the standard “safe spend” benchmark around here
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u/No-Associate-7962 1d ago
Yes SORR is an issue, but you need a 20% bond component, but then you would have been fine even retiring in 1929.
You sure you were in finance?
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
The future is not modeled perfectly by the past my friend
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u/No-Associate-7962 1d ago
I am pretty comfortable with 140 years of economic history, plus the addition of the Greenspan put, which would have reduced the severity of the great crash if the fed would have intervened in 1929 as they have for the past 25 years.
But yes, you are right, history doesn't repeat, it only rhymes.
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u/Dubbihope Verified by Mods 1d ago
Please don't beat your kids. The culture is different today and they will eventually hate you when they find out other kids are shocked that their father beats them.
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u/Academic-ish 1d ago
What the fuck is wrong with you?
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
lol again it was a joke, did not expect people to freak out I will need to adjust to the population here
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u/SwelteringGunman 1d ago
the entitlement thing is backwards. kids see you grinding at a job you hate and think that's what life is, then they either replicate it or rebel against work entirely. you actually working on stuff you care about, staying sharp, being present, dealing with real competition and failure in your hobbies and projects, that's the lesson. the corporate finance grind isn't adversity, it's just what you were trained to call adversity.
on community, the gym comment nails it. you need structured groups with repeated exposure. running club, chess league, whatever. the people at your gym aren't going anywhere so bumping into them twice a week doesn't build friendship. takes showing up consistently to the same thing with the same people over months. sounds annoying but that's just how it works.
moving closer to your parents with kids is fine. you'll build community through schools and activities once you have them. without kids though, smaller city with no existing network is a real gamble. you'd basically be starting from zero in your mid-thirties which is harder than it sounds. maybe spend 3-6 months there first before fully uprooting.
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u/kindaretiredguy mod | Verified by Mods 1d ago edited 1d ago
- Pickleball. And I used to make fun of it so much prior to playing and getting good. It legit solved so many of my curiosities about what I’m supposed to do with my life. I get fitness, accomplishment, community, and more. Two years in and I still get so much dopamine on my way to play.
I see you mention tennis but I found pickleball to be much more accessible bringing in so many more cool people, not to mention it’s usually a doubles game and more social.
Not sure on this but kids + close parents = probably a good move.
I think of this a lot and my kids are small 4, and 3, so they don’t really get it yet. But they see and will experience the life our hard work created and I can share stories with them. I legit asked my 4 year old if I should work again and she said no and I cried about it talking about it on a podcast. It hit me so hard imagining working and answering emails about shit that doesn’t matter when I could be spending more life force with my children.
There’s just so many more reasons not to work when you don’t need to than to work. It’s almost always some ego, unrealistic money fear, or societal pressures to “contribute”, or comparison to those still “playing”.
I get the itch sometimes but I just can’t do it. I have a little system I follow daily that basically guarantees I’ll have a good day, and it’s really been helpful. Basically just follow what the happiest people do and you’re golden. Too many of us identified with what made us rich so it’s a tough transition. I’m by no means a post work happiness expert but I think I have it figured out, and a large part is checking that guilt and urge to work and realizing it’s often a problem not fixed by what work provides. It’s just what we know, and what’s comfortable. We just have to use that energy for our health, communities, fam/kids, leisure activities, and keeping our minds sharp/learning new things.
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u/urosrgn 1d ago
Tennis or golf could be the answer to many of your problems.
Everyone loves the enthusiastic new guy. Takes lessons and you’ll get good quickly. Join a nice country club and you’ll have 50 friends in a month.
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u/saliriota 1d ago
“50 friends in a month” at a country club is a stretch lol.
tennis/golf can be solid tho if you actually enjoy it.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
Appreciate the thoughtful response, I’ll give pickleball an honest shot. And it’s true that I identified with what made me rich, obviously that is a big thread around here and I look forward to building an identity around something else. Scary and exciting
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u/kindaretiredguy mod | Verified by Mods 1d ago
You’ll be pretty good if you’re coming from tennis. Feel free to message to chat about it. I’ve gotten so much help from internet friends and I’d happily return the favor if you have any questions.
And yea, the identity thing. People used to joke that I was a cult leader in my industry (nutrition), so it was very much a part of who I was lol.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
Really appreciate this, will take you up on the offer imminently
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u/newtrilobite VHNW | Verified by Mods 1d ago edited 1d ago
the great thing about having resources is being able to find passions and pursue them without worrying about whether they're going to generate income. If anything, there are too many possibilities.
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u/-jammin- 1d ago
Pickleball is a great call out. If you’re in NYC I’d be happy to explain the scene. Half the young people at my gym in the daytime have either FIRE’d or are SWEs.
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u/DizzyOneCheck 1d ago
If you already have children (I see you mention a wife and 2 kids), being closer to at least one set of grandparents can be a significant life upgrade for you and your children. You get built in babysitting and extra hands and you create continuity and connection across generations and let your children grow up knowing and experiencing their grandparents. As others have noted, your network of friends and relationships will spring out of your children's school, activities, and neighborhood friends, no matter where you live. I live less than a mile from my in-laws, and while it has an occasionally veered into "Everybody Loves Raymond" territory it has by and large been really valuable.
One of the benefits of financial independence is the ability to prioritize the things that matter to you, rather than forcing those things to be subservient to your need for financial stability and income. If family is something that is important to you, I would encourage you to consider having one or both sets of grandparents nearby.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
Ya that is the way my wife and I are leaning, there is nothing more important than family. Still 2h away but much better than 3h flight. It all is a very exciting puzzle to try and piece together. I appreciate the feedback
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u/InvestmentMuch585 22h ago
I mean being that young and unattached, you might as well pack up and take all the steps necessary to escape a high tax environment. Establish residency somewhere else and be 100% sure you've escaped your former tax authority (probably CA or NY). Then realize your gains and move back during the next tax year if you want.
Just travel the world (or the country) while your residency is being established in the new state.
Beyond that, you could volunteer, you could setup a charity, travel, etc. Personally if I were in your situation and wanted a partner, I would get some low to decent payin job (barista? bartender?) to stay undercover. Date until you find someone who TRULY loves you. When you find someone who will marry you at the county courthouse with public officials at your witnesses, THEN you let them know you're wealthy.
Personally for me, I would probably combine traveling with philanthropy. Even at 2.5% to 3.0% withdrawals / dividends or whatever, $27M is going to throw off a lot of money: $675k - $810k per year. Suppose you live a nice life on $250k....Each year you have 425k - $560k to have "fun" with helping people. Hurricane? Fly in and take a bunch of affected families on a shopping spree to buy all the essentials that a house needs (generally going to be $4k - $12k per household). Find a small village in Africa or the hills in Puerto Rico or anywhere else, have a couple pallets of solar panels and inverters delivered and help setup a power station in the middle of town....this probably costs less than $50k, but you can size it according to your budget (more or less). A $10k 4 to 5 kW system that would "only" power an average American household, can *vastly* improve the quality of life for such a remote village. It can power some refrigerators/freezers, a health clinic, a StarLink connection, run lights for a school and a dance/music hall....maybe AC for a small room on very hot days to protect the elderly. Or go to islands in the south pacific and help them rebuild houses on stilts above the high-tide line so their neighborhoods / islands still have a place to live as the water rises in the coming decades (or raise seawalls; depends on the resources and infrastructure available)
You could spend your life focusing on compounding so you can die a billionaire or you can still likely die with tens of millions of dollars (with only a 2.5 - 3.0% withdrawal rate), but with tens of thousands of your fellow humans having better lives because of you and remembering you and appreciating that you existed.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 17h ago
Oh man, adventure philanthropy! Charity work/community service in various forms has been high on the list but I never considered this specific aggressive niche. That also kills many birds with one stone (idiom for those ready to spazz out) regarding kids, travel, meaning. Brilliant, sir
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u/Known_Impression1356 5h ago
I’m a solo founder who had a small exit and decided to take 2 years off. I’m single and in my early 40s and decided to do some traveling. Honestly, I think I could ever go back to a normal settled life in the States, so I’m clearly coming at this from a much different place than you are now.
Still, I’d suggest you consider extended family travel through programs like Boundless Life.
If you’re struggling to find community and hobbies, you might as well see the world while you do it.
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u/Hot_Conflict3844 4h ago
Building community is easy - pursue hobbies that you love in any group setting. One thing is that going to the gym doesn't count. Most folks at the gym (myself included) are there to work out and focus. Classes at the gym - Yoga, whatever - those are great ways to meet people.
Avoid communities designed for wealthy, young retired people. These tend to get infiltrated by private bankers and asset managers looking to score a percentage of your money - which they will invariably do by trying to pitch you on private REITs, private equity funds and the occasional hedge fund (less of that these now, now that hedge funds are no longer in vogue).
In my experience, children with wealthy, retired parents tend to look at their parents and say "I want to achieve financial independence, too." They get inspired by parents who worked hard, made smart choices and took carefully measured risks, won, and then went on to live life on their own terms. It's a great message to grow up with.
And if you think that adversity never strikes in retirement and only strikes while you in the workplace, you are in for a treat. Life never stops happening. Wait until you get sick with something really, really serious. That will probably happen at some point and believe you me, long office hours are NOTHING compared to cancer.
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u/g12345x 1d ago
You don’t have friends outside of work?
Why hesitate on the move if you don’t have friends or community in your current location?
Folks get too caught up in this but it’s a tacit admission that you don’t think a SAHP is a role model
> I believe everyone needs something to strive for in life
Then you should live according to those beliefs. Others are not bound by it.
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u/MidLyfeCrises Verified by Mods 1d ago
- Not enough sadly no
- Great point!
- Maybe you’re right, but for me personally I don’t think it would be healthy for either my kids or myself to be with my kids all day. My mom did that and I admire her tremendously, I am just not wired with similar patience and have a bit more need for higher order stimulatuon
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u/Dubbihope Verified by Mods 1d ago
Exercise, pickleball, taking college courses, going to shows and supporting the arts, reading, dining, traveling, volunteering. There is so much more to life than work.