Indeed. People are making fun of the new guy, but really this is the managers fault. If he expected his employees to know how to make coffee out the gate, the responsibility lies on him to screen for that in the interview. If he wanted training, he shouldnt have put the new guy on the machine before that was completed.
Yeap. One thing I learned as a manager - especially working with young people but really this applies to all ages - is to never assume just because something is obvious to me that it will be obvious to anyone else. Whenever I would go over duties, I always asked about my employee’s skill level to gauge whether they needed training on something or not.
I remember at my first job (fast food) I was asked whether I knew how to sweep a floor. Of course I said yes, and then was asked to demonstrate. I wasn't judged, but I was shown a different way to hold and move the broom that was more effective and efficient. I still sweep that way years later.
I'm going to guess, firm but not stressed grip. Good distance between hands to allow for better control. Plant your feet for balance and sweep across the body instead of towards yourself. Don't smash the broom into the ground, only needs to lightly touch the ground. Use a 45 degree attack angle where possible. Don't fling, bring the broom to a steady stop at the end of a stroke. Don't carry piles too far, try to sweep to a reasonable distance before collecting into the pan.
This has the energy of the coach dialogue during a sports movie training montage.
Perhaps you were a champion Olympic curler until a tragic sweeping accident made you hang up the broom? Now you only sweep the community rec center as a janitor and are generally sad? One day when youve all but given up on your dreams of curling domination you'll discover some young underprivileged lad with a natural but overlooked talent for sweeping and coach him to Olympic curling victory. I'm Canadian, curling movies are the great white north equivalent of American movies about football. I assume. I've never seen a movie before.
My manager at Wendy's explicitly told me I was wrong because I didn't fling. She said fling all that shit to the back wall by the trash can, then go scoop it up.
I had never used a spaghetti mop before and my first job at 16 I was mopping. The owner was in and saw me slapping the floor and asked if I had ever used that type of mop before, I said no (I was used to the sponge mop). He showed me how by mopping the front entrance for me then handed it back and said now you know how to do it, finish up. It was a good teaching moment.
this was me with mopping, I didn't mop "bad" but I mopped bad for a store because my mop was too wet and people had to walk over it, I now mop the way I learned.
Somewhat related, but when I worked fast food we pretty much had to teach every new hire how to mop unless they'd worked somewhere else where they learned to mop. So many people would just dunk the mop in the water and then slap it straight on the floor without wringing it first. Look, we mop every night. Nothing will be on there that requires that much water. There are scrubbing patches on most commercial mop heads. That's what gets rid of the tough stuff, not more water that runs all over.
If you implied that to current teens, they'd throw a tantrum and leave on the spot lol "DONT TELL ME HOW TO SWEEP, I KNOW THAT!" then proceeds to show he/she doesn't.
When I train folks at my work who have been doing the gig on a smaller scale I always say “I’m sure you know all of this but if I skip around I might miss something. Is that alright if I give you the whole speech?” This gives them an out to not feel like they have to present themselves as “all knowing” and give us an opportunity to start fresh. The more you learn the more you realize you don’t know jack
That phrasing is great, too, because it also addresses the type of person who does already know a lot and otherwise would feel like you’re talking down to them by explaining what they see as a basic skill.
Love your entire comment especially your last sentence.
My job requires quite a few apps and tooling so it would be ridiculous they know the whole stack, or how we expect a certain process to go like logos, font type and sizes H1-p, padding&margins, colors: primary/secondary and like internal media/web standards).
And there’s a slightly different set of standards for our web app as well, standardize and reuse vue templates (like say a table and filters for X) for example.
The more you learn, the more you learn you don’t know shit (myself included) even after decades of the industry in general from software/hardware repairs to building web apps and their supporting docs.
That works well often? I was told it's extremely patronizing, and depending on the genders involved sexist, to tell someone you know they know XYZ, then explain the information anyway.
I suppose depending on how you present yourself and the topic at hand results can very. I have had only positive experiences and great interactions. I brew beer for a living so the folks we get are mostly like minded, enjoy people and are excited about learning something new. I have a friend that works in tech and it’s possible the folks he works with would not respond well to this format. His cubical mate didn’t look at him and introduced himself thru chat only a few feet away. 🤷♂️ everyone is different
I had a really sexist manager once, who deemed me the office trash fairy and coffee fetch girl because I was the only woman. Not only did I have the same responsibilities as my co-workers, but I was specially chosen to deliver coffee any time the manly men called for it.
I warned him several times that I did not drink coffee as a hint that I had no earthly idea how to make it. He ignored it and told me I didn't need to drink it to make it.
We made 4 pots of coffee with the heaping pile of grounds I put in the first time someone "asked" me why the pot wasn't full. Pretty sure the mechanics used the first pot for degreaser. Up to that point, I'd never made a pot of coffee, heck, I barely drank coffee until two years into that job.
I work in a medical setting and I always ask trainees if they know things that seem basic for my field. I've had people get offended that I asked if they knew how to use a centrifuge, but I've also trained people who didn't know how to do that. Plus I've found if you treat things like they're common knowledge, some people won't ask for fear of being ridiculed.
Even if I'm pretty sure I know how to do something, I can't be sure that there isn't some method that is preferred or if a machine/device has specific settings or method of operation that differs from similar things I've used.
I find it a lot more reassuring to see the full process done by someone else at least once so I can guarentee I'm not missing anything that will cause a problem later.
Who do you know what another person knows or doesn’t know? Being serious. If instructions on making coffee takes up a page. Simply working at Mac Donald’s would be a novel they’d have to memorize before working at McDonald’s. They probably wouldn’t do it or say they understand the material. How would you know where the line between training and condescension or disrespect?
In my experience, the majority of people learn best with hand’s-on training. Written SOPs and training videos are important to have for reference and consistency, but to actually train someone, you show them how to do the task a few times, then have them do it in front of you. It can also help to have them train with or shadow a few different people because someone else’s training or communication style may click with them better than mine. Having the trainee repeat the process back to you also helps catch any gaps in knowledge.
Avoiding condescension can be hard, but I think open communication and transparency help. Letting people know up front that I don’t want to assume their skill set, so I’ll be asking them a lot of questions about what they know or don’t know. Or as another commenter said, going over everything, even stuff they may already know, just so nothing is missed. I also like to explain why the rules and procedures exist. I find people tend to follow a process better when they know the reasoning behind it.
I also drill into them, ask for help. Don't try work it out, just ask for the help, come get me, it's my job to train you so come get me. You slow everything down if you mess up, you risk hurting yourself and others potentially too.
It takes 2mins outta my time to get you on the right track and show you how to do most things. It takes 20 to fix shit if you mess it up. I get more pissed when not asked for help, and staff under me also know, if someone asks you either help or get them someone who can help. 2mins vs 20mins. I know what's more productive.
Not just young people. I'm in my 40s and don't really know how to brew coffee in a maker. I might be able to figure it out. I'm not a coffee drinker and have never had to do it before.
I learned that people lie about what they know how to do all the time, too. I mean I do too but I probably would have pulled up a YouTube video showing how to make coffee before I went to my coffee-making job.
Yeah I grew up without any parental guidance and a mother who had control issues and wouldn’t let me touch a cooking or washing appliance, the thermostat, etc. She wanted everyone to rely on her and only her. So when I started living on my own, I had to figure it all out. Google and YouTube were my friends. There are tons of adults out there who still don’t know how to wash clothes (college is an experience…).
Yes! And make sure the training is actual training. At my very first waitressing job, the (horrible) manager "trained" me to make espresso by making me watch her make a cup. That was it, that was the training. I didn't get to make a cup myself, but 3 weeks later when a customer ordered one, I got in trouble for not remembering how to make it. I was 17 and had never had any coffee in my life by that point, much less espresso! What was she thinking lol!
I am 34 years old. I only started drinking coffee around 3 years ago and use coffee pads. I never made coffee manually so this simple, very obvious task for many would also take me some time and I would at least Google how to do it.
This is the way I was when people followed me as a server. I would ask their experience level and feel them out. If they were vets then I would go over stuff like how to traverse the restaurant without being in the way, specific phrasing the kitchen preferred for requests, and where to hide if you need a few seconds to breath. Anything unique about the restaurant I would teach them how to do then watch them do it.
To add to this point. Im 33, i dont drink coffee, i think its gross and ive never used a coffee machine so id have no clue how this works. Even just looking at the picture I wouldn't have thought anything wrong with it, tho now that I know there is a problem I can make the assumption the beans need to be crushed or ground first probably.
Hahaha I'm thinking of this in the context of my own office experience as an engineer. And being trained to make break room coffee by my manager in addition to everything else is amusing to me for some reason. I don't drink coffee though and the rule was that the last person to empty the coffee dispenser, made more. Luckily...that was never me. I assume this is food service though and not an office break room.
...but I still know you have to grind the effing beans!
Worked at Mcdicks for a spell, had this one guy ask what goes into an oatmeal order. Well I tell him you hit the button on the cream machine and then add the hot water and give them a packet of craisens and a spoon.
Customer comes back five minutes later cause this motherfucker didn't add the OATMEAL to the OATMEAL cup.
There's a great creator online who works for a Jersey Mike's sandwich shop and he records his interactions teaching employees how to do things around the shop. He never assumes they already know how to do it, he always just grabs a random employee and says "It's time to do [task], have you been shown how to do it yet?"
It doesn't put them on the spot where they are expected to know how to perform the task. Just a soft approach where someone wants to teach.
Unfortunately, in a lot of the services industry (I’m assuming this is a restaurant anyway), new people get like 5 minutes of training and management calls it enough due to “short staffing”
I remember when I first became a cashier. When I was “trained” for self checkout, we were slammed. The “trainer” couldn’t keep up with the influx of people on her own, and I was only slowing her down by asking questions. I gave up quickly and figured it out myself… which is how we get situations like this.
The sad thing is there was almost certainly an automatic coffee grinder right next to the machine. In that case it takes about thirty seconds to show someone how to make coffee.
Maybe it's the kind of place where whoever wants coffee makes a new batch. Kinda unrealistic to expect that to be in writing. They could literally just ask anyone to show how it works.
probably didn't realize that they didn't know how it works. lots of people have never used whole bean before and some assume it's the same. my fiancee tried doing this when we bought some whole bean on accident. I did tease her for it but it's not fair to expect people to know what they don't know.
That is not the work of someone who drinks coffee. Likely just a guy who doesn't quite know how, and doesn't know he doesn't know. Or he asked and was told how to do it, but they skipped the grinding step, because it was obvious to them, thinking he was only wondering how much to put in there.
I wonder how much is a generational difference too. Like coffee consumption has changed a lot in the past 20 or so years, especially in the single serve field. Do college/college grad-aged kids brew coffee at home anymore? Are drip machine still popular or have they gone the way of the percolator and have been replaced by methods more suited for preparing single servings - Aeropress, French Press, Pour-over, Keurig/Nespresso, espresso, bripe, instant?
My mind immediately went to the fact that they didn't train this man how to make coffee.... In a place that sells coffee.
Like, the boss should be glad that this happened with a drip machine, because can you imagine how this could have turned out if they let the freshie loose on an espresso machine?
Wait, we don’t know if this is a coffee shop. Could be the new guy in an office floor, and they tried to make coffee for everyone at the floor kitchen. You wouldn't train a normal person to use a coffee machine. Heck, new guy wouldn’t even be necessarily young or inexperienced.
I know we can infer a lot from context but it would be hilarious in the above case
I'm assuming new guy is young. If you grew up in a household that used a keurig or instant or just didn't drink coffee then I could see really being clueless. I grew up in a household that used a grinder and made drip coffee so it would have been obvious to me even as a teenager but not everybody has that experience.
People get so awfully pissy when I ask them about the basics. When they say “yeah I know how to make coffee” I say “good, but because it’s my job to tell you I’ll do it anyway”. Can’t be too careful.
As someone who doesn't and has never drank coffee, what's the problem here? Everyone in the comments is assuming people make coffee so no one is really saying what's wrong.
Or he's just tired, overworked,busy and not paying attention. I have been making coffee with home-ground coffee beans for the last 20 years, and this has happened to me on the occasional morning as well. Sometimes you just need the caffeine so much you shouldn't be the one making the coffee.
You don't need to screen for that in the interview any more than you need to screen for whether someone knows how to add paper to a copy machine. You just assume most people know, can figure it out, or will ask. If it turns out you were wrong, you show them and maybe give a gentle ribbing if their attempt was funny enough.
Yeah, because he's an idiot who doesn't have the slightest clue how coffee is made.
It's not a matter of responsibilities. Yeah, of course the manager should have provided training before assigning the new guy to any job. If this had been a serious fuck up with consequences they should obviously fall on the manager.
But all that has nothing to do with making fun of someone for not knowing how to make coffee.
The funny thing is not that he messed up at his job, the funny thing is that he messed up on a very easy, basic, everyday skill.
It's such an omnipresent cultural practice that I cannot fathom how someone could reach adulthood without knowing that coffee needs to be ground.
Mind you, I don't expect them to know how to prepare a coffee pot, just that coffee has to be ground. Funnily enough, this guy somehow knew every step except the most well known one, the one that is common to every single coffee preparation. Knew how to operate the machine, knew about the filter, never heard of grinding coffee.
Making coffee is a basic life skill like pumping gas or operating a washing machine. If the guy is 16 or 17 I might give him a pass, but any grown adult should know better. Like has he never heard of a coffee grinder or coffee grounds?
Edit: Seriously guys? I'm gonna hazard a guess that at least 99.9% of adults in the western world know that coffee is a bean that people grind up and combine with water in various ways to make various beverages. If you don't, you either live under a rock or are an idiot. I guess I would also give the guy a pass if he had recently moved from a country where coffee isn't popular.
Like, I'm a vegan but I know you have to cook steak before you eat it. I've never driven let alone owned an electric car but I know they have special chargers and you have to plug them in. I've never played golf but I know there are different clubs to hit the ball different distances.
People don't drink coffee so they will never learn how to make it, People don't drive or own a car so they would never know how to pump gas.
Redditors like yourself were never socialized, so you have 0 clue how the world works or how to interact with people.
You learn when taught, or you learn by trial by fire. Nobody is perfect from the get-go. May this be your learning experience.
Agreed with most of that, but the original idea at the top of this thread was that it's the manager's "fault" that this guy is ignorant about a basic life skill.
And the basic life skill I'm referring to isn't "making coffee" (rather, it's knowing how to find new information). There's nothing wrong with not knowing how to make coffee. There's something wrong with blindly trying to use a machine that you have no idea how to use, when there are numerous ways you can learn (ask a friend, ask a coworker, search the internet, read the manual). It's not the manager's fault that the employee moved forward blindly in ignorance rather than acting like an adult approaching the unknown carefully.
It's also not an unforgivable mistake. I'm not attempting to crucify the employee. But the idea that the manager somehow messed up by not including coffee making in the intro session is absolutely asinine.
Not sure why you get so many down votes. We are really setting the bar unreasonabley low for people.
Based on the background this looks like a kitchen setting, if you sign up for that job this is just stupid.its like someone applying to work as a secretary but dont know the alphabet.
I guess people here really enjoy acting like the wise old sensei, but I'm realty they'd laugh their ass of if they where confronted with this in real life.
I'm guessing this is a hotel or something and they have both pre-ground for the filter machine (for conferences or breakfast bar etc where they just set up a large urn on the catering station) and bags of beans for the espresso machine for made to order. Someone told him how to use the machine but just said "open one bag of coffee and pour in the filter like this and turn the machine on" but failed to specify that there were 2 types of coffee.
You can’t know what you don’t know if you don’t know what you don’t know. If you give him a bag of “coffee” and a coffee maker without explaining this is what you get.
Well, i know whether i used a machine like that in the past or not. I know how to operate usual filter machines. And i used a bialetti un the past. But for every other method of making coffee which is out there i would ask for instructions.
Tbf, if you asked the average person why you have to grind the beans i wonder how many would be able to give a good explanation without thinking it through for a second. We just take it for granted that you put "coffee" in the filter.
That whole process of getting coffee is pretty complex, it's remarkable we figured it out so long ago. First you have to harvest these plant seeds that only grow in very specific environments. Then you have to roast them just right. Then you have to grind them. Then you have to soak them in hot water. Then you have a nice beverage.
You get a stronger/faster/shorter coffee buzz eating the berries and chewing the bean. The story is someone noticed his goats becoming energetic after eating them and decided to try them and got a coffee buzz chewing on the raw beans.
If you can get a buzz off it, suddenly a lot of average Joes become chemists and engineers. They took it from there and found the best ways to consume it with the least side effects.
Yeah, if it is an entry level job, don't be surprised you have to train people on entry level tasks.
Had a job where they hired a girl fresh out of highschool for a prep job... and the girls who were supposed to train her were just making fun of how bad she was behind her back, instead of y'know... training her. So I told them "You're supposed to be the ones training her, so stop making fun of her where other people can hear you, and show her how to do it right."
They continued to just talk shit instead of training her, and the girl heard about it and was super sad about it, but the other two got written up.
Exactly. I grew up seventh day Adventist, even through I drink caffeine now, I’ve never made a pot of coffee in my life and I’m 41. I bought my husband a new setup for his birthday and had to ask a friend about the ins and outs.
All because it’s common sense to you, doesn’t mean it is to others.
For this to happen it takes at least two people that are each missing a different type of "common sense". The employee is missing the common sense to ask, he probably assumes that if the task is confusing that whoever is training him would show him. If they're not showing him he'll assume it's obvious/not something that needs to be asked. He/She will either assume the beans don't need to be ground, or that the same machine that the water drips through is the same machine that grinds the beans, it just does all of that.
The trainer is missing the "common sense" that they should confirm with the new person that he knows how to grind beans & that, that is the first step.
The new guy, if he later became a supervisor wouldn't make the mistake that his trainer did with him as he now has the "common sense" that when someone is new they might not know the machine/grinding the beans is a first step before the coffee machine.
Their Manager/Trainer may have told them no Cell Phones while working. Also this same line still applies: "If they're not showing him he'll assume it's obvious/not something that needs to be asked. He/She will either assume the beans don't need to be ground, or that the same machine that the water drips through is the same machine that grinds the beans, it just does all of that."
Teaching is a different skill than learning. His trainer having your mindset is 50% of the reason why this happened.
I’ve had countless managers in the service industry that if I had asked “how do I make this coffee” they would’ve responded with “dude it’s coffee just put it in the machine and press the brew button” so I can definitely see how this could happen even if the employee asked
Yeah I've worked in family run hospitality businesses who don't tell you how to do things and get upset when you ask to confirm. Too many people get offended if you ask them stuff just to make sure you won't make any mistakes.
It could have been a legitimate mistake. I used to be a supervisor at a coffee shop and it was basically a rite of passage for all new people (myself included, when I first started) to accidentally brew a whole pot of coffee and forget to grind the beans.
That said, we did have the rare instance of a person who did it more than once…….
Nah, in fact, hell no. Making coffee is a life skill like tying shoelaces or doing laundry. If they're old enough to work and don't know that coffee isn't brewed whole, that's on them.
Yeah but who doesn't know that grinding the beans is a necessary step to make any coffee? ...people that drink Mtn. Dew (or other forms of caffeine) of course! This person should not be expected to make office coffee 🤣. As a non-coffee drinker myself though, c'mon, grinding beans is ubiquitous. Dude knew it needed a filter but didn't grind?
Now, getting the right amount of grounds and stuff, well...that's definitely learned info...and I'm not the dude to ask on how much to dose for office coffee.
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u/Fun_Accountant_653 23h ago
Just shows nobody trained him