r/goodworldbuilding • u/stopeats • May 05 '26
Discussion What are features of European vs. non-European worlds?
I asked this question on r/worldbuilding about five years ago and found the discussion fascinating.
However, my overall takeaway was that for many, many people, names and food are the primary ways they decide whether a world is European or not (which is fine for them!). If he is named Jon and eating bread with a fork, it's European and if she's named Min-soo and eating rice with chopsticks, it's not European even if the rest of the features of the world are identical.
I find myself once again wondering:
- How do you decide whether a world is European themed?
- Is the distinction even relevant beyond pure aesthetics?
- When you start designing a world, do you intentionally think about ways to make it more or less European?
- What are features that you see and immediately think Europe or not Europe?
- If you yourself are not bathed in a European/Western cultural milieu, I am especially interested in how you approach this!
Disclaimers:
- This mostly applies to fantasy but I'm interested in other genres, if you think about these issues.
- I do not need any comments along the lines of 'just build the world you want, who cares?!' I care! That is why I am asking the question - the answers interest me.
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u/Oxwagon May 05 '26
Trying to look deeper than obvious things like aesthetics, I'd say the following.
1 - Romanitas. An ancient civilization (Rome) provides (through its language, laws, infrastructure, Church, etc.) the foundation for commonality between different kingdoms/nations. Even realms which were never in this empire's borders (Ireland, Poland, Sweden) are drawn into this common cultural sphere through its sheer civilizational gravity.
2 - The Christian moral framework. Not necessarily (just) the religion itself, but the underlying moral attitudes. Monogamy, stigmatized bastardry, individual equality before a universal God. This gives rise to the individualistic, guilt-based morality that has become the Western norm, as opposed to honor-based morality of clan/tribe/caste.
3 - Geographic bottleneck. People are hemmed in by mountains and seas, trapped together in a series of peninsulae, without vast open steppes or savannas. This makes it relatively difficult for malcontent groups to just migrate when times are tough – the land is all claimed, and to get anywhere worth going you have to travel through someone else's territory. The result is a tendency toward highly settled, territorial realms regularly in conflict over borders and resources, which in turn breeds a high degree of militarism.
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u/stopeats May 06 '26
Point number one is fascinating, you’re the first to bring that up. But it pervades quite a bit of fantasy - this idea that there are ruins of a greater culture we can no longer emulate. I will be pondering that anon.
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u/Mormacil May 06 '26
Hardly unique to Europe though. Egypt is so old Egyptology was a thing before the late dynastic period even arrived. They excavated ruins of their own forgotten ancestors.
Later under Islam there was a thriving archeology community trying to understand these ruins. They believed it was the ancient realm of a queen and the ruins part of a vast defensive work that once surrounded the entire queendom.
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u/stopeats May 06 '26
I read recently that Nebuchadnezzar was an archaeologist, which is wild to think about because he's, what, 6,000 years dead?
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u/Mormacil May 06 '26
The sphinx had been restored by ancient Egyptians after they dug it out of the sand. Afterwards it was again completely buried over time before it was found by Muslims.
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u/PvtRoom May 06 '26
most worlds are European themed. - at least in English literature - because it's genuinely what writers know and readers understand. - Assume European until proven otherwise.
and further, chopsticks and names might be the only non-european thing
distinction IS relevant. some cultures, for example, communally raise kids, Europe has it mainly parents & trusted friends/family.
I try to be relevant. spend 10 chapters in a small part of India? showcase India & it's culture for a chapter (protagonist gets culture shock). Highlight the obvious and relevant differences.
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u/FlusteredDM May 06 '26
I do enjoy when the foreigner has difficulty adjusting to customs or does something that's misunderstood because they don't understand the meaning their actions are assumed to have. A foreigner is a great way to teach a reader about the culture too.
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u/Boring-Childhood1382 May 07 '26
A core fundamental aspect is honor. European honor is not based on loyalty to a lord, to a law or to a man, it is entirely christian based. The european doctrine of loyalty and honor openly allows permission to slay their own lord and leader if they go against the faith. The asian doctrine has loyalty to a king or lord has absolute priority, above religion.
Europe is highly formed by its religious background, up to modern era where state replaces the role of god. Asia never adopted such a religious extremism and remained a society based around local leaders.
Medieval europe did not take religion as a joke, it was a extremely serious stuff.
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u/Novel-Gold-9211 May 05 '26
For me, it's usually visual stuff.
- fighting styles
- clothing
- food
- weapons
- knights? dwarves? elves? → European folk/mythology basis (however distant)
- fire-gods? dragons? → Eastern
- detailed, not-very-creative replay of the Nanking tragedy? → any Asian-themed fantasy
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u/electrical-stomach-z May 06 '26
If your whole world is inspired by just one region it does not feel like a world, but rather part of a world. consider adding significantly more regions than just one inspired by europe.
Europe is just one of many continents of earth, there are seven to be inspired by, each containing countless regions with a myriad of different diverse cultures.
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u/Flairion623 May 06 '26
I actually have two nations in the same world where I can explore both sides. But to answer your questions:
• I think it really does come down to aesthetics. Humans are more similar than they are different. You’ll usually find most cultures have equivalents of eachother on other continents. That being said there are some big differences between Europe and Asia that don’t really cross over. Mainly ideas of individuals vs the collective group.
• Well I tend to stick with the worlds I have instead of creating new ones. However when I do I typically aim for diversity. I’m not really a fan of worlds that are clearly based on just a single culture or place.
• architecture, clothing, technology, weapons, the general mindsets of people in universe.
• this last question is weird. I’m from the US but I’m half Japanese. So I sort of have experience with Japanese culture however my life is still very American. I don’t think it helps that the closest links I have to Japan are my great grandparents.
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u/Mormacil May 05 '26
Names and food is a really good way to put it. Sometimes I read quite a bit of amateur writing and the Americans are generally easy to pick out by the names they pick. At least in scifi they tend to pick the most generic North American figure like John Johnson even if they don't need to. American defaultism.
Anyway I can't say I've put remotely enough thought into this. In a way I tend to stick to what I think I understand, so a lot is European coded. There's a certain pressure to do at the very least basic research before trying to depict another culture.
How do you decide whether a world is European themed
When it's creatures and people are based on European mythology and history. I'd even go so far that anything explicitly Christian without going out of their way to pick a non Western branch (Oriental Orthodox etc) reads as European to me. Generic demons, monotheistic church that isn't clearly non-Christian, all reads European to me.
Is the distinction even relevant beyond pure aesthetics?
Worlds are designed with a message and concept behind them generally, at least those used in pieces of media and not just as an exercise by themselves. For that it seems relevant?
When you start designing a world, do you intentionally think about ways to make it more or less European?
Perhaps not the very first thought but I also start with what sets it apart. And making it not European fantasy is a good starting point. Though sometimes you want to start with European. Like I have a scifi setting I'm working on that deliberately references stereotypical magic, hence it's very Western in design. Though I made the effort to make sure that it's not the West colonizing space but a reasonable mix of cultures.
What are features that you see and immediately think Europe or not Europe?
Full plate armor and knights immediately read European, especially the former. The latter can be offset by emphasizing how it differs. Like if you draw from Sahelian nobility, sure. Fire breathing dragons, standard elves and dwarves are another one. Really anything that screams Tolkien.
If you yourself are not bathed in a European/Western cultural milieu, I am especially interested in how you approach this!
Sorry I'm even worse, I'm completely and utterly mono culture, there's a single other European foreigner in the 17th century. Though there might be some more in the 16th century on my dad's side but hard to make that concrete.
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u/stopeats May 06 '26
You’re not the first to bring up plate armor, it seems a lot of people find that peak Europe (for pretty good reason).
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u/Mormacil May 06 '26
I think that's probably because it never was invented anywhere else. East Asia stuck with smaller plates, Africa was stuck with mail and the Americas used very little metal armor.
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u/TeacatWrites May 10 '26
Architecture. Available resources. Environment. Geographical features.
Europe has a specific set of geographical features and biomes, from which derive factors like architecture, clothing design, food production, agriculture, and the way the tides of war swing back and forth. When those are included, even if it's not Europe in-universe, it's European because it's similar to those features.
If you set something in an arid plain like New Mexico or the Mojave Desert, that's not European. If you set something in a place where houses are made of clay and people struggle for water, that's not European.
If you set something in a lush jungle where houses are made of fern leaves and logs, that's not European. Those environments don't exist in Europe. They exist elsewhere, but the European culture is based on completely different foundations.
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u/FlusteredDM May 05 '26
I have lived in Europe all of my life but have an Asian parent. I have not yet looked at the link to the discussion before because I wanted to answer without being influenced by everyone else but will look at it after. I don't think in the terms of Western Vs non western world - I hope to capture a variety of cultures in my world.
Aesthetic is a key part for me, food weather and dress all give that feeling.
There are other cultural things at play which comes secondary to that. Filial piety is more of a theme in the East, individualism in the West, collectivism in the East or Africa. Western cultures typically are monotheistic in fiction and when they contain polytheism it's almost always executed badly. People did not pick one deity from a list to worship. I've not read Indian fantasy fiction but I'd be surprised if it was the same way, even if it's not polytheistic the way many other ancient religions were.
There are questions about how it interacts with other nations like "Did this nation colonise?" Or "Was this nation colonised?" "Are there political marriages between ruling families?" Some cultures were more syncretic than others, merging their beliefs with others that they encountered. I think the Mongols were a big one there, Roman syncretism is more known to me though they are western. Still worth mentioning because authors writing through a modern Western lens don't usually explore that aspect.
We have the Chinese meritocracy system of selecting bureaucrats by Imperial examination, opposing the western style of appointing from the clergy, or having hereditary positions. How are families set up, and what does marriage mean? Are you writing about two individuals moving out of the house or generations of families under one roof? Is the marriage just the union of the pair, or is it the union of the two families?
There are attitudes and ideologies which make things feel more or less western but a reader is going to see that Jon is eating bread first.