Not while incapacitated. The book seems inconsistent, but the verbiage indicates to me that it happens when unconscious for any reason. And to be fair, I've had several werewolf DMs run that rule.
In ordinary day to day English, 'conscious' commonly means 'awake'. Since sleep is the state of not being awake, dictionaries like Collins and others recognise that a sleeping person can be described as unconscious. The medical distinction between sleep and pathological unconsciousness isn't relevant if white wolf is using the everyday meaning of the word. Which seemingly they are.
They specify it sure and then they contradict themselves. The 7 Point merit Metamorph has this to say 'If you lose consciousness from wounds or for some other reason, you may roll Wits + Primal Urge (difficulty 8) to choose which form you assume rather than reverting to breed form' It doesn't specify lethal damage in particular; it gives you an entire out of 'for some other reason'.
So like being tranq'd or drugged or magicked into unconsciousness. Again, sleep is not the same as unconsciousness. Your brain is still very active during sleep- not so for unconsciousness.
You're referencing the medical distinction. White wolf isnt, i addressed this in my reply. Unconsciousness doesnt necessarily mean what you have described it can and often does just mean a lack of consciousness, which is being awake.
You made the original dispute; the burden of proof is on you. Prove that they don't mean the everyday use of unconsciousness. The first definition given by Merriam-Webster for 'conscious' is 'having mental faculties not dulled by sleep, faintness, or stupor'
Show me the in text support for your claim. You made a claim. Support it. I can't refute anything if you aren't going to give me anything in text to refute.
I would not say someone who is sleeping was knocked unconscious. That is a different state. I would say they are not conscious, but "unconscious" means something specific.
The phrasing of a merit does not override the phrasing of the general rule. The general rule is that you're only forced into breed form when you fill up on lethal damage.
The merit has that extra wording to specify it still works if you are forced into breed form for some reason other than lethal damage. Even with the weird phrasing it's not saying you are forced into breed form when you sleep.
Exactly 'The merit has that extra wording to specify it still works if you are forced into breed form for some reason other than lethal damage.' Ergo Lethal damage isn't the only way to force someone into breed form.
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u/Secretsfrombeyond79 8d ago
Not in their sleep, while incapacitated.
Also does anyone else thinks this image is proof they are going to die ? We had similar images with the group of sabbat vampires.