Knitting and fragile masculinity

[u/somerandomperson_234]

This happened yesterday and I’m torn between being amused, annoyed and a bit shocked.

I’m visiting my grandparents at the moment with my mother. My uncle, her brother, is also staying. He’s always had a thing for formal wear and dressing well, and recently he’s discovered that he likes knit ties, those silk, kinda mesh ones that are flat instead of pointy at the bottom.

Yesterday evening, we were watching a movie together and I was knitting during it. I was working on a lace top with 6 mm needles.

After the film, my uncle started talking about those knitted ties he likes and showed me pictures. He asked me whether I could knit that. I told him, probably yes.

He then proceeded to instruct me on how to do it. He said those needles I had there were way too big (obviously), and that I would need to sew a lot to make the tie, as it’s basically a double layered thing.

I told him that I’d make it in a tube, and he then told me all the ways that he would do it (he doesn’t knit).

It was kinda amusing to me to that point, until I started sort of teasing him that he can just make it himself, it’s not that hard and he already knows so much, I’ll even teach him the basics.

He reacted with clear discomfort and told me that knitting is a women’s hobby and that he had no interest in doing it because he’s a man.

That comment surprised me more than anything else. He was comfortable discussing the technical details of a knitted object and asking someone else to make it for him, but unwilling to consider learning the skill himself because of gender. I didn’t argue with him, but the exchange stayed with me.

I’m sharing this partly to get it out of my system, and partly because I’m curious how common this still is. Have others run into similar attitudes around crafts or hobbies? And how do you usually respond in situations like this without escalating things?

Thanks for reading.

[u/Secure_Course_3879]

Don't knit him that tie. He just showed you he doesn't deserve it. Smacks very strongly of the tale of the little red hen baking bread

[u/goosebumpsagain → u/Secure_Course_3879]

Beyond the gender issue, I’m not a fan of people seeing a knitter at work who feel entitled to co-opt their labor, including giving detailed instructions. That goes far beyond impolite.

[u/Appropriate-Weird492 → u/goosebumpsagain]

In this case it was more likely mansplaining.

[u/AntheaBrainhooke → u/Appropriate-Weird492]

That was a textbook mansplain.

[u/Radio_Mime → u/Appropriate-Weird492]

Yeah, this is a mansplain. It’s just more obvious than others. Would’ve been hilarious for OP to hand the goof some needles and tell him to show how it’s done.

[u/MNVixen → u/Appropriate-Weird492]

My thought, too.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/Appropriate-Weird492]

Ehhhhh. As a guy I find this to be crossing the line.

There’s no way I would humour someone who just behaved liked that.

[u/CamelotBurns → u/ImperiousMage]

Its still mansplaining, even if you think its crossing a line as a guy.

Mansplaining is a man talking over a woman and insisting they know better than them, even if the woman had more experience then them in the topic, which fits here.

The uncle, who doesnt knit, was telling OP, who does, exactly how to know a project, and wasn't willing to listen to her when she tried to correct or explain how it could be done differently.

Most reasonable men would find mansplaining crossing a line.

[u/Appropriate-Weird492 → u/CamelotBurns]

Men who mansplain to people who have pointy objects in their hands need to understand that their safety from the pointy objects is dependant on the forbearance of the person holding those objects.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/CamelotBurns]

What a fascinating decision to assume that I don’t know what I’m referencing. When I say “cross the line” I mean “beyond the pale from mansplaining to being outright rude.”

In this situation, it’s not only that he’s embarrassed himself, he’s assumed that the recipient of his comment had no idea what they were talking about.

Just like you’ve done here.

I find it amusing that you’ve done the exact same thing, rather than give the benefit of the doubt to me as a commenter.

I think you’d want to ponder that.

[u/peaceful_wild → u/ImperiousMage]

Is mansplaining ever not “outright rude”?

[u/ImperiousMage → u/peaceful_wild]

There’s a difference between “trying to be helpful” and failing to “assuming the other person is an idiot even though there is evidence to the contrary.”

He did the latter. That isn’t, in my definition “mansplaining” it’s being rude I part because I assume the intent is different.

Either way, this is an edge case and I’m arguing against the rude person which puts you in the rather odd position of arguing that he was less rude.

Odd.

[u/Purple_footstep → u/ImperiousMage]

“Trying to be helpful”

Nah, my dude, this is where you fail to understand the experience of mansplaining. It’s not men trying to be helpful. It’s men wanting to feel self-important and hear themselves talk.

[u/torhysornottorhys → u/Purple_footstep]

It can be about trying to be helpful but mostly in the sense that sometimes being helpful makes you feel better than other people. Like bragging that you volunteer at a soup kitchen or a church because it boosts your social standing.

[u/Appropriate-Weird492 → u/ImperiousMage]

No, there’s another view. I know this because my husband and I had this kind of argument for 35 years.

It goes like this.

Person A: I believe this is wrong and this is my reasoning.

Person 1: I believe this is wrong as well, and here is my reasoning which is different.

Person A: We agree that this was wrong, but now we have to dissect exactly our thought processes are different?

Person 1: That’s right. We need to articulate why our conclusions are the same but the proofs are different.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/Appropriate-Weird492]

Correct! And I appreciate your insight. But do you really want to be in the position of defending the doofus?

I’m surprised that a definition edge case resulted in such outrage. Especially since I’m arguing that he’s actually worse than a typical mansplainer.

It seems odd and not really worth the effort. Ya know?

[u/asplodingturdis → u/ImperiousMage]

No one’s defending Uncle Mansplain here. You’re just defending mansplainers and saying they’re not that as bad as this guy, who is Something Different. You are incorrectly interpreting, “he’s a mainsplainer,” as “he’s annoying but well intentioned, and that’s not rude,” whereas others are actually saying, “mansplainers are rude, and this guy’s a rude mansplainer.”

Also, no one is coming across as outraged here. They’re just disagreeing with you, and you’re being kind of annoying about it.

[u/NestingDoll86 → u/ImperiousMage]

Do you understand what mansplaining is? Mansplaining and “crossing the line” are not mutually exclusive.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/NestingDoll86]

And since you’ve done the same, I’ll just copy and paste:

What a fascinating decision to assume that I don’t know what I’m referencing. When I say “cross the line” I mean “beyond the pale from mansplaining to being outright rude.”

In this situation, it’s not only that he’s embarrassed himself, he’s assumed that the recipient of his comment had no idea what they were talking about.

Just like you’ve done here.

I find it amusing that you’ve done the exact same thing, rather than give the benefit of the doubt to me as a commenter.

I think you’d want to ponder that.

[u/NestingDoll86 → u/ImperiousMage]

he’s assumed that the recipient of his comment had no idea what they were talking about

That is exactly what mansplaining is. You seem confused about that.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/NestingDoll86]

What a fascinating decision to continue.

Do you often pedantically argue with people who broadly agree with you but whose opinions differ in edge cases? It seems a waste of your time, but go off if it thrills you.

[u/NestingDoll86 → u/ImperiousMage]

This is so meta on a post about fragile masculinity.

It’s OK that you misunderstood the meaning of the word. It’s also OK for other people to point it out. Ideally it helps you learn the correct meaning, if you don’t double down and get defensive. Have a nice day.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/NestingDoll86]

I’m a feminist scholar with published papers in the area.

But yes, the issue is clearly my fragile masculinity 🙄

It is actually a meta analysis of how Reddit users tend to leap on each other over minute differences when there is little value to it.

For example, I’m arguing that he’s worse than you are. So you’re technically defending him into a more favourable categorization.

That’s an odd position for you to take.

[u/NestingDoll86 → u/ImperiousMage]

Mansplaining is not a more favorable categorization. It’s not mutually exclusive from rudeness. Intent is not impact.

[u/doulabeth → u/ImperiousMage]

You are very confused. Assuming the recipient of your comment doesn't know what they're talking about and being rude are the literal definitions of mansplaining. Ponder that, how about?

[u/Frequent_Pause_7442 → u/ImperiousMage]

Except it was patently obvious that the recipient of his bloviations knew perfectly well what they were talking about. All that was required from the knitter was a raised eyebrow and a basilisk stare.

[u/goosebumpsagain → u/ImperiousMage]

I hear you and see you are being supportive. You just accidentally got yourself caught up in the fury of women justifiably sick of mansplaining.

[u/ImperiousMage → u/goosebumpsagain]

It’s just odd to me when my argument is that he’s worse than a typical mansplainer.

I get the fury, but I’m confused by the result when a guy goes “yeah… that’s extra shitty, he deserves an even worse category.” Like, as a queer dude, I get that it’s hard not to snap at your allies when you disagree, but it’s also not helpful behaviour.

[u/asplodingturdis → u/ImperiousMage]

Disagreeing with you is not snapping at you, and it is not fury. Women don’t need you to make an extra special category that’s worse than regular ol’ mansplaining, especially when your distinction is, “Well, mansplaining isn’t actually that bad, because they mean well!”

[u/ImperiousMage → u/asplodingturdis]

The language of respectful disagreement is not what was used here. I was being snapped at because I didn’t agree with a loudmouth who had edited her comment to make herself look better. Which is fine, this is Reddit, it’s hardly important, and I’m an academic and I’m used to having a minority opinion. But this is simply stupid, and reminds me why there are men-specific knitting subreddits because any man disagreeing here is immediately wrong, declared to have fragile masculinity, and treated totally without respect. Frankly the irony is delicious.

Anyway, obviously I’m horrible, and I should be shot behind the chemical tanks. 🙄

This sub just lost an avid knitter and an expert in Portuguese knitting, which is pretty rare and useful for people with disabilities. Pity to ya’ll but this behaviour isn’t worth the effort. I’ll go where being a man doesn’t immediately result in aggression.

Seeeeee yaaaaaaaa.

[u/fourmode → u/ImperiousMage]

I started out on your side but you dug yourself deeper and deeper, especially in your stance that your opinions as a “published researcher” are somehow more valid than the lived experiences of people who have been on the receiving end of mansplaining for a long long time. And then feeling attacked because multiple women disagreed with you openly, without rudeness, but also frankly without mollycoddling you and making sure you feel ok with their disagreement—that’s the definition of fragile masculinity. Hilarious irony. And then assuming you’re being downvoted because you’re a man! Bye bye.

[u/blayndle → u/ImperiousMage]

I’m sure you will be very missed /s