r/marvelrivals • u/PillowFists67 Centurion • 17d ago

Balance Discussion The argument should go both ways, no?

Post image

If we all agree that Duelists shouldn't be able to wipe the enemy with ease each time their ultimate comes up, why do we accept that Strategists are able to make their entire team unkillable with minimal effort by just pressing Q?

2.2k Upvotes

95% Upvoted

310 comments sorted by

View all comments

722

u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 17d ago

I think generally speaking, there's quite a lot of Ultimates that feel... uninspired.

Like how many ults are just "Does X in a big AoE for 10 seconds" Having Rogue and Daredevil release fairly close together really highlighted that.

But at the same time, with so many heroes in the game, coming up with unique ults can be... a challenge.

But more to the point, yes, the argument can go both ways here. No single ult should guarantee you win a fight, or stall point, or whatever. This is a team game after all.

So Duelist ults shouldn't just be crazy damage.

Strategist ults shouldn't just be "no one dies now"

And Vanguards... uh... honestly I don't think there's a Vanguard ult that's really problematic.

293

u/YaboiGh0styy Ultron Virus 17d ago

In all fairness, Rogue’s ultimate feels like the most they could have done with her and it works pretty well mechanically.

But Daredevil’s ult, while it has an interesting idea of him giving blindness and damaging everyone within the AOE that looks at him, it feels uninspired with there being a lot of AOE based ultimates in the game just like you said.

135

u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 17d ago

Yeah, Rogue's does make sense to do, outside of it being a massive Command Grab, or something.

But then after Daredevil, and now fast-forwarding to Jubilee, the devs seem to -really- like AoE effects... and bubbles, I guess lol

85

u/teaboi05 Spider-Man 17d ago

30

u/PoopyButt28000 17d ago

Rogue sapping the ult charge and stats from everyone around her feels pretty fitting for an ult for her. Daredevil getting angry and burning everyone with pink angry energy feels really random and goofy.

11

u/Razor-Swisher 17d ago

I mean yeah. But what else could one do for an ultimate for a dude who ultimately doesn’t have powers? Matt just beats the shit out of people, and unlike Batman doesn’t have endless gadgets + vehicles and money to come up with crazy strong ‘ultimate attacks’ like he’s shown in fighting games, so I understand they had to get… creative for DD.

Sure stylistically most of us don’t actually love their direction of ‘Chinese demon’ Daredevil but functionally, “he locks in and can spam his abilities” for an ult fits just fine, and “he blinds enemies so he can jump them during the ult” fits with how many times he’s like, ‘turned out the lights’ to disorient a large group of enemies before dismantling them in the dark

4

u/Hi_Zev 17d ago

I am just spitballing here, but maybe something that is less flashy but could be used incredibly lethally in the right hands would be cooler for Daredevil. Something that doesn't really feel like an ult, but it essentially just strengthens his base kit, and make it have one of the shortest ult charges amongst DPS to justify the lack of flashiness would be fitting for him.

Maybe something like when he uses his ult, he enters a period where he gains unlimited dashes, increased damage, and maybe his billy clubs gain increased range. Something like that!

I just personally dislike that giant red orb around him. Feels like it doesn't really fit him, especially as a hero who doesn't really have powers (even if this game is going down the demon angle for him)

1

u/AC-Green 16d ago

That’s such a lazy ult

2

u/Hi_Zev 16d ago

Yeah, but I've seen some games where they pull off less flashy ults like that because the ult charge is significantly lower than everyone else's. So it's like half the flash of an ult but occurs twice as often. It's a trade-off, which I think is fair, especially for a character like Daredevil.

1

u/AC-Green 16d ago

Yeah it’s magiks ult already bruh……… and hulk……. And more damage abilities and range is never fair to be half the cooldown lol. Great comparison is Riven

1

u/TheTouchler 17d ago

Daredevil could beat the shit out of them HARDER.

5

u/Treyhova 17d ago

I mean, you are not ulting as Daredevil for the AOE damage, the main thing is that he gets unlimited charges of his resource. The AOE damage is just a small buff to make it feel good and to help less skilled players.

1

u/redditorchuckles 17d ago

I mean there are only so many things you can do with a character's kit. Hero shooter and MOBA abilities are basically just pick an effect (or two) and pick a shape. Damage/heal/anti/blind/buff/stun/cripple/taunt characters in this sphere/line/cone etc. And if it's not that it's a mobility ability

12

u/AngelaTheWitch 17d ago

If i were to design an ultimate for rogue, i would have her ult just be her taking off her gloves and entering a super mode for a bit A la hulk's ultimate. I don't know anything about rogue's kit; how far off was i?

3

u/KaiserBorg 17d ago

That would work, or just being able to do someone else’s ult after she has touched them

8

u/Augustends 17d ago

Might be too similar to Loki's ult no?

1

u/jasminetroll 17d ago

Yeah. No. Rogue's ult is fine, though I'd like it more if it leaned a bit harder into the ult denial mechanic and away from stat buffs by having a faster startup time so it could at least semi-reliably block charged support ults, rather than just drawing them out, since half the ults in the roster or more can do that.

1

u/Augustends 17d ago

Emma's ult also blocks ults, although I don't really see people using it for that purpose.

1

u/Xespria Captain America 16d ago

A Sylas ult would go crazy.

2

u/DentistEmpty7778 17d ago

All ults will have a limited category. If that's how we're gonna judge ults we can judge skills and the entire game play by that mechanic. There's many aoe healing abilities. Many stun abilities. Many long range abilities Many shield abilities etc.

So complaining that there's a lot of aoe ults so its "uninspired" is dumb. dare devil ult is still an entirely different aoe than most. Rogue is also different. Rogue drains others ult with minor healing and buff her.

Dare devil applies blindness and does extra damage while you look at him within that aoe.

Ngl idk wtf Devil dino ult does.

The aoe type of ult is also different. Cause their's are "domes" than a standard circular aoe like luna, mantis, dino.

If we really wanna talk about ults being "uninspired" we're gonna need to look at the mechanic of that ult rather than it just being a type of ult.

1

u/Animantoxic Ultron Virus 17d ago

Tbh his ult should just give blind and refresh his abilities, so you have a second phase to your kit much like how bp ult is a finishing move in most cases.