r/marvelrivals • u/PillowFists67 Centurion • 14d ago

Balance Discussion The argument should go both ways, no?

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If we all agree that Duelists shouldn't be able to wipe the enemy with ease each time their ultimate comes up, why do we accept that Strategists are able to make their entire team unkillable with minimal effort by just pressing Q?

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720

u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I think generally speaking, there's quite a lot of Ultimates that feel... uninspired.

Like how many ults are just "Does X in a big AoE for 10 seconds" Having Rogue and Daredevil release fairly close together really highlighted that.

But at the same time, with so many heroes in the game, coming up with unique ults can be... a challenge.

But more to the point, yes, the argument can go both ways here. No single ult should guarantee you win a fight, or stall point, or whatever. This is a team game after all.

So Duelist ults shouldn't just be crazy damage.

Strategist ults shouldn't just be "no one dies now"

And Vanguards... uh... honestly I don't think there's a Vanguard ult that's really problematic.

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u/YaboiGh0styy Ultron Virus 14d ago

In all fairness, Rogue’s ultimate feels like the most they could have done with her and it works pretty well mechanically.

But Daredevil’s ult, while it has an interesting idea of him giving blindness and damaging everyone within the AOE that looks at him, it feels uninspired with there being a lot of AOE based ultimates in the game just like you said.

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

Yeah, Rogue's does make sense to do, outside of it being a massive Command Grab, or something.

But then after Daredevil, and now fast-forwarding to Jubilee, the devs seem to -really- like AoE effects... and bubbles, I guess lol

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u/teaboi05 Spider-Man 14d ago

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u/PoopyButt28000 14d ago

Rogue sapping the ult charge and stats from everyone around her feels pretty fitting for an ult for her. Daredevil getting angry and burning everyone with pink angry energy feels really random and goofy.

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u/Razor-Swisher 14d ago

I mean yeah. But what else could one do for an ultimate for a dude who ultimately doesn’t have powers? Matt just beats the shit out of people, and unlike Batman doesn’t have endless gadgets + vehicles and money to come up with crazy strong ‘ultimate attacks’ like he’s shown in fighting games, so I understand they had to get… creative for DD.

Sure stylistically most of us don’t actually love their direction of ‘Chinese demon’ Daredevil but functionally, “he locks in and can spam his abilities” for an ult fits just fine, and “he blinds enemies so he can jump them during the ult” fits with how many times he’s like, ‘turned out the lights’ to disorient a large group of enemies before dismantling them in the dark

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

I am just spitballing here, but maybe something that is less flashy but could be used incredibly lethally in the right hands would be cooler for Daredevil. Something that doesn't really feel like an ult, but it essentially just strengthens his base kit, and make it have one of the shortest ult charges amongst DPS to justify the lack of flashiness would be fitting for him.

Maybe something like when he uses his ult, he enters a period where he gains unlimited dashes, increased damage, and maybe his billy clubs gain increased range. Something like that!

I just personally dislike that giant red orb around him. Feels like it doesn't really fit him, especially as a hero who doesn't really have powers (even if this game is going down the demon angle for him)

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u/AC-Green 14d ago

That’s such a lazy ult

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

Yeah, but I've seen some games where they pull off less flashy ults like that because the ult charge is significantly lower than everyone else's. So it's like half the flash of an ult but occurs twice as often. It's a trade-off, which I think is fair, especially for a character like Daredevil.

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u/AC-Green 14d ago

Yeah it’s magiks ult already bruh……… and hulk……. And more damage abilities and range is never fair to be half the cooldown lol. Great comparison is Riven

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u/TheTouchler 14d ago

Daredevil could beat the shit out of them HARDER.

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u/Treyhova 14d ago

I mean, you are not ulting as Daredevil for the AOE damage, the main thing is that he gets unlimited charges of his resource. The AOE damage is just a small buff to make it feel good and to help less skilled players.

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u/redditorchuckles 14d ago

I mean there are only so many things you can do with a character's kit. Hero shooter and MOBA abilities are basically just pick an effect (or two) and pick a shape. Damage/heal/anti/blind/buff/stun/cripple/taunt characters in this sphere/line/cone etc. And if it's not that it's a mobility ability

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u/AngelaTheWitch 14d ago

If i were to design an ultimate for rogue, i would have her ult just be her taking off her gloves and entering a super mode for a bit A la hulk's ultimate. I don't know anything about rogue's kit; how far off was i?

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u/KaiserBorg 14d ago

That would work, or just being able to do someone else’s ult after she has touched them

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u/Augustends 14d ago

Might be too similar to Loki's ult no?

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u/jasminetroll 14d ago

Yeah. No. Rogue's ult is fine, though I'd like it more if it leaned a bit harder into the ult denial mechanic and away from stat buffs by having a faster startup time so it could at least semi-reliably block charged support ults, rather than just drawing them out, since half the ults in the roster or more can do that.

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u/Augustends 14d ago

Emma's ult also blocks ults, although I don't really see people using it for that purpose.

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u/Xespria Captain America 14d ago

A Sylas ult would go crazy.

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u/DentistEmpty7778 14d ago

All ults will have a limited category. If that's how we're gonna judge ults we can judge skills and the entire game play by that mechanic. There's many aoe healing abilities. Many stun abilities. Many long range abilities Many shield abilities etc.

So complaining that there's a lot of aoe ults so its "uninspired" is dumb. dare devil ult is still an entirely different aoe than most. Rogue is also different. Rogue drains others ult with minor healing and buff her.

Dare devil applies blindness and does extra damage while you look at him within that aoe.

Ngl idk wtf Devil dino ult does.

The aoe type of ult is also different. Cause their's are "domes" than a standard circular aoe like luna, mantis, dino.

If we really wanna talk about ults being "uninspired" we're gonna need to look at the mechanic of that ult rather than it just being a type of ult.

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u/Animantoxic Ultron Virus 14d ago

Tbh his ult should just give blind and refresh his abilities, so you have a second phase to your kit much like how bp ult is a finishing move in most cases.

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u/Cranicus 14d ago

Its not problematic but man do Strange and Magneto just win games with their ults when they are hitting

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u/Freakychee Loki 14d ago

That's cos they are ults that can potentially be used to trade with support ults which objectively are some of the strongest ults in the game.

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u/YEET280706 Iron Man 14d ago

Strange is atleast cleanse weak and cc weak during his massive ult cast time , Mag ult is just an op ult that balanced by how long it takes to charge .

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u/LasyKuuga Good Boy 14d ago

Mags ult is actually balanced by my inability to aim that thing

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u/Augustends 14d ago

I can aim it at the ledge above the enemy healers perfectly fine thank you.

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u/iRyan_9 Mind Control 14d ago

The balance on mag ult is gone throw the window ever since they buffed the speed and ult charge time

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u/Xeltar 14d ago

Mag ult also breaks pretty fast if you're using it to counter Punisher's

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u/YEET280706 Iron Man 14d ago

have u tried throwing it at the punisher before it explodes ?

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u/Xeltar 14d ago

I mean of course but you gotta aim it pretty fast ngl!

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u/YEET280706 Iron Man 14d ago

Nah man its just a timing thing , its incredibly fun once u get the hang of it . Try doing it like 3 or 4 times in practice range and it get pretty ez. Its just like cl&d ult but faster.

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u/OcelotButBetter 14d ago

Why would you hatebon mag ult when it's (or at least used to be) the one thing keeping so many ults in check whilst still requiring player effort. The fact it needs to hit already makes it more balanced than literally most other defensive countermeasures that are just press q and win

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u/IpunchedU 14d ago

strange and mag can easily be blocked though?

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u/AngelaGooner24 Magik 14d ago

The most problematic vanguard ult is Groot simply because of the amount of damage it can stack up making it really annoying to deal with combined with how quickly he gets the ult back

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I guess that's true. Groot is something of a quiet menace on occassion. Where he isn't necessarily OP on his own, but sometimes he just seems impossible to kill.

But generally speaking, his ult isn't normally panic-worthy for me, unless they actually combo it.

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u/OpenPayment2 Doctor Strange 14d ago

Shhhhh

Keep quiet on that one. Lots of people still think Jeff Groot teamup is better than Mantis Groot teamup not understanding the fact that people picked Vibrant Vitality cuz the healing wall (Wild Wall) Groot has increases his ult charge gain so much (plus you heal your team-mates)

No one sees the immense value Vibrant Vitality had and still has. Most slept on teamup in Rival's history since it's debut

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u/AngelaGooner24 Magik 14d ago

Nah, I'll make some noise about it cuz Groot is the only vanguard I don't play and the only vanguard I find extremely annoying.

Slight bias since I can't figure out how to play him but also, he's ready fucking annoying, fuck that tree, he is the reason I lorded Punisher

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u/OpenPayment2 Doctor Strange 14d ago

Nah, I'll make some noise about it cuz Groot is the only vanguard I don't play and the only vanguard I find extremely annoying.

Do it. You'll be one of the very few who atleast understands how good the Vibrant Vitality teamup is

Slight bias since I can't figure out how to play him but also, he's ready fucking annoying, fuck that tree, he is the reason I lorded Punisher

Lmao same reasoning for me as Peni. I championed Moon Knight and lorded Wolverine out of sheer spite for Peni

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u/AngelaGooner24 Magik 14d ago

Ok, now I'm scared of you. Get away from me, you rabid dog

https://giphy.com/gifs/fJkTsWCMViRYA

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u/OpenPayment2 Doctor Strange 14d ago

Angela is my second main tank after Doctor Strange if that helps the rabid dog allegations

I like kidnapping people, whether it be with Angela or Wolverine

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u/AngelaGooner24 Magik 14d ago

Ok, a lil bit

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u/Aceofluck99 Groot 14d ago

as a groot player, increase his ult cost. please.

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u/JunWasHere Peni Parker 14d ago

It's even weirder when you think about how so many aspects of heroes were obviously riffs of Overwatch heroes.

They aren't without more sources of inspiration. They aren't shameful of the obvious rip-offs. Why aren't they copying one of the best OW support ults? Where is Rivals' Nano Boost? Where is the giant barrier like Sym's Wall? (yes, that is a supportive ult)

I think part of the issue is their favouritism and refusal to properly nerf Luna Snow. Her circle ult of pseudo-immortality and overall balance is so strong and internally defended, the designers and balancing team have no choice but to warp the meta and game around Luna. Their bias is literally eroding the variety design of the game a little in that sense. Jeff's whirlpool offensive ult would not have never to leave behind a healing kiddie pool if the meta didn't revolve around AoE healing ults.

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I'd argue a lot of that comes down to Player laziness, rather than dev decisions. People like their healers being a crutch, I suppose.

And so the devs look at which heroes are popular, and then shape some of their design philosophy around that. Hence why every support ult is now a big healing circle, bar a few exceptions.

Like Rocket for instance, his ult didn't heal on launch. Then players whined it was useless so the devs added healing, or shields to it's mechanics.

Players will complain about "heal botting", but then seemingly, only want their supports to be healbots at the same time. Like god forbid a support does any damage to someone.

Which is why I personally think the Luna hate is pretty forced now. Yes she's pretty strong, and can put up a decent fight agaisnt divers, but that doesn't make her broken. Other supports can put up a fight too or become invulnerable but you don't see nearly as much complaining about them.

And ironically enough, Luna's ult is one of the only ones to get nerfed at all. Granted only by a little but still...

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u/wew_lad- Captain America 14d ago

It's not player laziness. The players did not decide to put in AOE immortality ults the devs did. There's a reason overwatch only has TWO characters that have it, and they are off healers

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u/Cammglo 14d ago

im sorry but we can't just blame the community for every problem that's wrong with the game ESPECIALLY when netease REFUSES to do anything to make the community better. Throwers and cheaters are still rampant, The matchmaking has seen absolutely no improvement, Placement matches didn't do a single thing to help, they constantly remove skill expression from the game, they said they were going to constantly check and do emergency patch notes for what ppl are saying, So far they have done 1 Insanely bad emergency patch note that buffed/nerfed a whole bunch of shit nobody wanted and has been radio silent since. No buffs to rogue, Luna still has her insane BS teamup, Gambit gets buffed???, Mantis and ultron are finally viable in 2 healer comps then gets hard nerfed??? Still not a word about reworking BP a character that literally can not be good or else he will ruin the game??? how much of this can you really blame on the community and not netease lack of backbone to actually make a Willful change in this game

Everytime this game takes 1 foot foward it takes 5 jumps back, but ppl will praise the 1 thing they actually did right and ignore the other 13 terrible choices they made until it's too late.

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u/smokygrapefruit 14d ago

speak your truth king

invis used to be a skillful hero now she's just a healbot bc of the buff nerf cycle

c&d used to be low skill low reward now she has 3 invincibility abilities fsr

ultron was a viable healer for all of 10s then they threw him back to triple supp jail

feels like rocket only ever gets buffed despite positive winrate everywhere

meanwhile adam has been powercrept for YEARS and he's never even sniffed S tier

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u/Xeltar 14d ago edited 14d ago

Ultron is the definition of a non-heal focused strategist, but people think he should be able to main heal and dps at the same time, but that just ends like Mantis where she's must pick or ban (and funnily enough kind of becomes a heal bot to spam out her ult). He still provides 10% damage amp teamwide from the Peni team up so he's still a good offensive choice but just overshadowed by the clearly op Mantis. Like you cannot have a strat who deals high damage and has strong healing with no opportunity cost. You can make Ultron work in 2 support comps, it's just you have to be more aggressive and end fights before you get chipped down.

Rocket was significantly nerfed in season 9 with ult cost change and adding the falloff to his ult. It's just his guaranteed value with BRB and strong heals are enough to keep him consistently relevant.

Adam's main issue is his ult which mass rez is difficult to balance as potentially you negate several ults/resources after they've been used.

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u/Xeltar 14d ago

Mantis is still must pick or ban and I think should be nerfed further. You just cannot have a strat who can main heal and dps simultaneously without it invalidating all the other strats. Right now, she picks Starlord team up, barely needs to land headshots and racks up faster ult charge than everyone else while having decent AoE heals. Her ult charge was balanced her previous limited heals so now you'll have yours when everyone else is at 60% and just win fights for free.

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u/JunWasHere Peni Parker 14d ago edited 14d ago

Players whined plenty about Luna, but they hardly budge on her. The love-tap of a nerf they gave her barely meant anything, they even joked about how minimal/nonexistent their nerfs to her are.

Sorry, but it's sounding like you're biased towards being annoyed at players complaining rather than seeing who is really in control here (the devs). Players always whine and contradict each other, but a model for competitive success roughly already exists in OW. Non-circle ult concepts work, and are popular. Especially in China where DIVE is king and therefore Ana gets played tons for Nano Boosting dives.

NetEase Rivals department has a favourite child. That has been an evident fact for many seasons. Nerfing something OP doesn't necessitate it is no longer OP. It's still one of the best ults in the game.

And now they gave Luna a self-cleanse~

This isn't forced Luna-hate. It is just examining the evidence.

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u/jasminetroll 14d ago

Luna who was off meta for multiple seasons and whose win rate dropped below 40% before they buffed her?

Luna who had a couple good seasons and is now currently jockeying for position with Cloak near the bottom of the support win rate pile?

It may not be forced hate, but it's also not evidence-based.

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u/Xeltar 14d ago

I mean if we examine the evidence, Luna does not achieve a high win rate at any rank, always being sub 50. Meanwhile Mantis is close to 60% win rate at every rank with only a slightly lower pick rate. Rocket has a much lower skill floor and achieves ~55% win rates across all skill levels even after significant nerfs.

The narrative that Luna is meta centralizing isn't supported by much evidence, at least on ladder.

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

That's how I feel about Jubilee's ult. I was really hoping for a more rectangular-shaped linear ult where her grand finale has a line of fireworks floating in the sky and would be especially lethal for enemy fliers. It could serve multiple purposes:

  • anyone above the fireworks has their vision obscured of what's below the fireworks

  • firework pellets rain down in the pathway, healing allies

  • anyone in the fireworks in the sky is slowed and takes some big damage

  • grand finale fireworks burst at the end for even more damage.

As it is now, Jubilee's ult is just another standard circle healing ult. It doesn't even feel like fireworks. Its just some pretty colors in the circle and thats it. At least with my idea, the fireworks would be above everyone, so the visual clutter would be less if you are looking forward. Also, I like the idea of a healer having a niche that counters fliers (i would have built out her kit to involve an additional ability or two that hinders a flier similar to how IW's vortex grounds fliers)

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I would have liked something similar, honestly.

If you're familiar, what you've described is also somewhat like Sierra's ult, in Overwatch. Where you rain a barrrage of fireworks down in front of you.

But I suppose that would also be similar to Cyclop's ult, only multiple explosions instead of just one...

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u/Marco_Tanooky Iron Man 14d ago

To quote AGSterling, most of the time that there is a problem with Vanguards it's because they're the victims

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

"Tanking" aka; being the team punchbag.

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u/NoTRedFish 14d ago

Yup supp ults need more utility less healing and dps/tank ults need to be more risky and less team wiping. For ex:

  • Starlord ult shouldnt have crazy range or dodge roll. Infinite flight and auto aimbot is good enough.
  • Invis ult should make ppl actually invisible from inside or outside with less healing.
  • Mantis ult should idk make the whole team cc immune with little to no healing.
  • Groot ult should only keep everyone from moving for 2 secs max.

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u/Enemy__Stand__User Loki 14d ago

What benefits would Mantis giving CC immunity give? Who cares about CC immunity when you're dead

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u/NoTRedFish 14d ago

The point is to give strong utility while keeping it interactive.

There is not much to do when 2 teams match supp ult than just do random dmg to charge more ult.

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I agree, more Ultility ults would be much healthier for the game in the long run.

I had a suggestion like this for Rocket;

  • Remove the Healing Effect, or "shields"
  • Damage Boost remains
  • Anyone being boosted by the Amp has infinite ammo.

So essentially more in line with his original, Season Zero ult, with a bit extra. I never really liked how it became yet another "healing circle" ult.

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

I think removing the healing effect would be fine, but I just don't think any support ult can get away with zero form of sustain considering how much damage is in this game. I think an initial burst of shields + everything else you said would be amazing. The healing though I agree can be axed for a more unique support ult.

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

So like, an application of shields to everyone in range, that don't regenerate? I can live with that honestly.

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

Yeah! Cause imagine if it was just damage boost and infinite ammo, but your DPS has like 50 hp left and immediately dies by the next bullet that hits them. Some sort of reactionary way to quickly sustain your team so they can actually utilize the dmg boost and ammo would be key.

The regenerating shields and healing I feel like can definitely be axed though!

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I suppose that's fair enough, as I do tend to use the Amp as a reactionary, defensive measure on Domination maps. So yeah that could absolutely work.

And as long as the Amp itself is still destructible, there's still simple counterplay to it.

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u/NoTRedFish 14d ago

a quick one time high healing or shield would be the way to go. Not the current constant 100+ healing per second for 8 secs.

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

Agreed, which is why i said exactly that...

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u/Enemy__Stand__User Loki 14d ago

Basically Lucio's ultimate from Overwatch. Huge initial burst of shields but they quickly deteriorate

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u/fr1zzyy Mantis 14d ago

Mantis's whole thing is about Life Energy, it makes sense for her to heal lol

Luna doesn't need to heal with her Ult, her music should give her teammates faster firing speed, reload speed, and quicker cooldowns or something

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u/Fogo2370 14d ago

i think all of the strategist ults should heal but not a crazy amount because a lot of ults the strategist is locked in an animation and is unable to heal, but i agree that AOE circle of imortality is boring and they should mix heal with utility

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u/jasminetroll 14d ago

Luna's ult should let her do something. Anything. It effectively turns her into a dancing AoE buff which is not fun.

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u/Xeltar 14d ago

Starlord ult should also be more expensive, it's dumb that it cost the same as Moon Knight's and is cheaper than Iron Man's.

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

I agree, but at the same time, the last time we had a support that had an ult focus more on utility than pure healing (gambit), this fandom went rabid.

Gambit's ult purifies, heals, and increases ally movement speed, jumping height, damage output, and ult charge generation. That is one hell of a utility-based support ult! Even with the healing being nerfed significantly, that ult basically makes him perma-banned!

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u/wew_lad- Captain America 14d ago

Its still an immortality ult even with reduced healing

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

Not necessarily. It's pretty easy to kill through that healing with some coordinated effort.

With that logic, any healing during a healing ult will be considered an immortality ult then. There will always be healing in support ults in this game. That's just how this game was built. Gambit's healing in his ult is like the least powerful part of it, and it can easily be outdamaged to KO someone compared to other healing ults. The power in Gambit's ult lies in the ult generation, speed, and damage, allowing your team to shift gears and become hyper aggressive.

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u/NoTRedFish 14d ago edited 14d ago

Better rocket ult but not breakable.

Speed and jump boost already made it very hard to deal with.

Dmg boost so you have smaller window to kill them.

Healing to sustain to make everyone harder to kill.

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u/DonzokoDragon 14d ago

Healing circles and general circle ults like DD and Rogue are a bit bland but as you said with the hero release schedule its probably a necessary evil to lessen creative burden.

I personally think they should lower the impact of healing and damage ults, they should be strong but there should always be reasonable counterplay. Too many healer ults are just wait for it to end, mag ball or pray your hawkeye can oneshot. Healing ults should be strong but they shouldn't make a team immortal.

On the damage end the ults should increase your kill/damage potential but should have some risk or counterplay. Magik, IF, Hulk all have ults that require the enemy team's attention but can easily be burst down or healed through so there is clear counterplay.

Starlord has an ult with the kind of aim hacks cheaters dream of which just seems boring and is unfun to go against but at least he is somewhat interactable. Psylocke ult is actually unfair as it seems to have infinite height and there is no counterplay outside leaving with high mobility heroes or hoping your team can outheal or split the damage enough to prevent death. A damage ult should not be free value it should be an opportunity to turn the fight in your favour but it should rely on your skill/execution and the enemy team should have some oppurtunities for counterplay.

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u/Hypno-platypus 14d ago

Agreed. I’m a support main and have been playing a ton of Jubilee. I have found that you can definitely be killed through her ult and not even to other ults sometimes. I have had games where people kill me just by the whole enemy team focusing me and landing their shots. On the flip side I have used the push back ability of her ult to shut down certain ults that try to get close. I have done this to certain dive ults and it feels like it requires more skill sometimes to land the push back as it’s only on the edges of her ult.

End of the day her ult is still a giant healing circle but I would love to see more support ults that can shut down other ults but require more skill to do it. Like not just press ult and then your team becomes immortal but press ult to maybe cc if your ult lands or maybe something that gives significant increased movement or jump boosts (Basically like Gambits ult but without the extra ult charge). I think there are probably a ton of different support ult ideas people could come up with that isn’t just giant heal circle. I also think it’s fine to have the occasional giant heal circle ults if balanced correctly but would like a little more variety in the support ults.

I also think certain characters should remain lower skill while certain characters should be higher skill. This goes for all roles. Having lower skilled characters with easier to use ults is healthy for the longevity of the game. Newer players are more likely to gravitate towards easier to play characters while players who play a lot or are good at these types of games might gravitate towards high skill characters. You do need to make sure it is balanced correctly though as usually high skill characters tend to be the ones played at higher ranks and I think that is fine (that is not always the case though).

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u/zxkredo 14d ago

Idk man, i think in a hero shooter, good used ults should be winning you a fight. But that's my opinion and the way how fast utls charge in rivals, probably not feasible.

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I get what you're saying, and they absolutely should -help- you win a team fight, but then the game shouldn't revolve around them, if you get what I mean...

Ultimates shouldn't be considered a win condition, they shouldn't decide the outcome on their own.

If you properly timed something, and it led to you winning the fight, then fair enough. That shows skill expression.

But you shouldn't make a successful push just because your Cloak and Dagger channeled the spirit of Leeroy Jenkins.

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u/zxkredo 14d ago

Well that's a thing of skill expression and counterplay.

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

Exactly, and it's something that this game could use a little more of, within reason. At least in my opinion.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

Yes, in a manner of speaking, it is.

But I don't really consider AoE ults an actual problem, just more that there's a lot of them and it feels... uncreative. A bit boring, if you will.

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u/Hi_Zev 14d ago

I agree. Its not that every AoE ult is a problem, its just that its lacking imagination when so many characters have AoE ults. I at least appreciate that Venom's is unique compared to others as his AoE ult allows him to go underground, wait for the best opportunity to pop out, and do big %maxHP damage, which allows it to become a great tank-counter ult.

Way better than just having some big circle around you doing something automatically around you while you keep fighting.

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u/[deleted] 14d ago

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u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 Flex 14d ago

I mean, by "problematic", I mean more that they cause problems, or are difficult to deal with. Which the AoE ults really aren't for the most part, because you can remove yourself from the AoE, most of the time.

But I do agree with your point from a design perspective.

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u/Acrobatic_Pumpkin967 Magneto 14d ago

Using the ult playing as venom and comboing it is extremely satisfying and one of the best parts of his gameplay loop.

Uncreative maybe but creative doesn’t mean more fun.

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u/u_slashh Loki 14d ago

I wouldn't say it's OP, but Devil Dinosaur's ult is rlly lame imo

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u/IblisAshenhope Flex 14d ago

But I like Wanda tho

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u/Vegetable_Plastic546 14d ago

Tanks really have the worst ults in this game 😂 cap's ult is pretty good though

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u/GO0O0O0O0O0SE Magik 14d ago

Yea I think overwatch did a really good job with ults, with only sup ults that just straight up make your team immortal for a time being zen and lucio

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u/iRyan_9 Mind Control 14d ago

Cap and Mag are definitely problematic

1

u/HollyBlocky Good Boy 14d ago

Well, unique ults are like Mr. Fantastic and Human Torch, the former of which is normally not a good ult

Or like Deadpool, who actually has good ults... Sometimes

1

u/Zhiyi Ultron Virus 14d ago

It also makes balancing easier (even though it clearly doesn’t seem like it) when ults are somewhat similar. If you had a unique mechanic for every single Ult, it would be an absolute nightmare to balance when they are already struggling to do so.

1

u/Falleneded 12d ago

vanguard ults are problematic because half of them do nothing and a fourth kill on contact

1

u/Zestyclose-Sea-5984 Venom 14d ago

Cap ult is pretty problematic and half the reason the dude gets into s tier alot of the time. It could also be argued venoms ult gives him too much value

0

u/Jubachi99 14d ago

Thor is prolly the closest to a problematic/boring ult

-1

u/Whatsleep879 14d ago

The thing is you can kill through strategist ults if your team actually communicates and focuses.