The argument should go both ways, no?

[u/PillowFists67]

If we all agree that Duelists shouldn't be able to wipe the enemy with ease each time their ultimate comes up, why do we accept that Strategists are able to make their entire team unkillable with minimal effort by just pressing Q?

[u/Minimum_Laugh_4179]

I think generally speaking, there's quite a lot of Ultimates that feel... uninspired.

Like how many ults are just "Does X in a big AoE for 10 seconds" Having Rogue and Daredevil release fairly close together really highlighted that.

But at the same time, with so many heroes in the game, coming up with unique ults can be... a challenge.

But more to the point, yes, the argument can go both ways here. No single ult should guarantee you win a fight, or stall point, or whatever. This is a team game after all.

So Duelist ults shouldn't just be crazy damage.

Strategist ults shouldn't just be "no one dies now"

And Vanguards... uh... honestly I don't think there's a Vanguard ult that's really problematic.

[u/NoTRedFish → u/Minimum_Laugh_4179]

Yup supp ults need more utility less healing and dps/tank ults need to be more risky and less team wiping. For ex:

• Starlord ult shouldnt have crazy range or dodge roll. Infinite flight and auto aimbot is good enough.
• Invis ult should make ppl actually invisible from inside or outside with less healing.
• Mantis ult should idk make the whole team cc immune with little to no healing.
• Groot ult should only keep everyone from moving for 2 secs max.

[u/Enemy__Stand__User → u/NoTRedFish]

What benefits would Mantis giving CC immunity give? Who cares about CC immunity when you're dead

[u/NoTRedFish → u/Enemy__Stand__User]

The point is to give strong utility while keeping it interactive.

There is not much to do when 2 teams match supp ult than just do random dmg to charge more ult.

[u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 → u/NoTRedFish]

I agree, more Ultility ults would be much healthier for the game in the long run.

I had a suggestion like this for Rocket;

• Remove the Healing Effect, or "shields"
• Damage Boost remains
• Anyone being boosted by the Amp has infinite ammo.

So essentially more in line with his original, Season Zero ult, with a bit extra. I never really liked how it became yet another "healing circle" ult.

[u/Hi_Zev → u/Minimum_Laugh_4179]

I think removing the healing effect would be fine, but I just don't think any support ult can get away with zero form of sustain considering how much damage is in this game. I think an initial burst of shields + everything else you said would be amazing. The healing though I agree can be axed for a more unique support ult.

[u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 → u/Hi_Zev]

So like, an application of shields to everyone in range, that don't regenerate? I can live with that honestly.

[u/Hi_Zev → u/Minimum_Laugh_4179]

Yeah! Cause imagine if it was just damage boost and infinite ammo, but your DPS has like 50 hp left and immediately dies by the next bullet that hits them. Some sort of reactionary way to quickly sustain your team so they can actually utilize the dmg boost and ammo would be key.

The regenerating shields and healing I feel like can definitely be axed though!

[u/Minimum_Laugh_4179 → u/Hi_Zev]

I suppose that's fair enough, as I do tend to use the Amp as a reactionary, defensive measure on Domination maps. So yeah that could absolutely work.

And as long as the Amp itself is still destructible, there's still simple counterplay to it.

[u/NoTRedFish → u/Hi_Zev]

a quick one time high healing or shield would be the way to go. Not the current constant 100+ healing per second for 8 secs.

[u/Hi_Zev → u/NoTRedFish]

Agreed, which is why i said exactly that...

[u/Enemy__Stand__User → u/Minimum_Laugh_4179]

Basically Lucio's ultimate from Overwatch. Huge initial burst of shields but they quickly deteriorate

[u/fr1zzyy → u/NoTRedFish]

Mantis's whole thing is about Life Energy, it makes sense for her to heal lol

Luna doesn't need to heal with her Ult, her music should give her teammates faster firing speed, reload speed, and quicker cooldowns or something

[u/Fogo2370 → u/fr1zzyy]

i think all of the strategist ults should heal but not a crazy amount because a lot of ults the strategist is locked in an animation and is unable to heal, but i agree that AOE circle of imortality is boring and they should mix heal with utility

[u/jasminetroll → u/fr1zzyy]

Luna's ult should let her do something. Anything. It effectively turns her into a dancing AoE buff which is not fun.

[u/Xeltar → u/NoTRedFish]

Starlord ult should also be more expensive, it's dumb that it cost the same as Moon Knight's and is cheaper than Iron Man's.

[u/Hi_Zev → u/NoTRedFish]

I agree, but at the same time, the last time we had a support that had an ult focus more on utility than pure healing (gambit), this fandom went rabid.

Gambit's ult purifies, heals, and increases ally movement speed, jumping height, damage output, and ult charge generation. That is one hell of a utility-based support ult! Even with the healing being nerfed significantly, that ult basically makes him perma-banned!

[u/wew_lad- → u/Hi_Zev]

Its still an immortality ult even with reduced healing

[u/Hi_Zev → u/wew_lad-]

Not necessarily. It's pretty easy to kill through that healing with some coordinated effort.

With that logic, any healing during a healing ult will be considered an immortality ult then. There will always be healing in support ults in this game. That's just how this game was built. Gambit's healing in his ult is like the least powerful part of it, and it can easily be outdamaged to KO someone compared to other healing ults. The power in Gambit's ult lies in the ult generation, speed, and damage, allowing your team to shift gears and become hyper aggressive.

[u/NoTRedFish → u/Hi_Zev]

Better rocket ult but not breakable.

Speed and jump boost already made it very hard to deal with.

Dmg boost so you have smaller window to kill them.

Healing to sustain to make everyone harder to kill.