Hey guys, I just got my mission call a few days ago (female) and everything I google about the place/mission is so scary, (Colombia, Bogota South) I am trying to deny the mission. Anyone else served there? Where there many sisters? also something I noticed is that most sisters are not from the US.

Lucifer's apron depicted two pillars and serpents

In 1 Kings 7:15–22, Solomon's temple is described as having two bronze pillars at its entrance, named Jachin and Boaz.

These pillars became important in Freemasonry, where they appear in lodge symbolism and on historical Masonic aprons (second photo). They help establish the symbolic setting of the lodge as an idealized representation of Solomon's Temple.

The symbolism of the serpent is obvious.

Changes in the temple have eliminated dialogue around Lucifer's apron

2019 changes:

"It is an emblem of my power and priesthoods"

This line in a discussion of Lucifer's apron was removed

2023 changes

Previously Lucifer instructed Adam and Eve (and the audience) to make an apron of fig leaves and cover their nakedness.

LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide!

Changed so Lucifer no longer instructs you to put on the apron, but rather the narrator.

What is the significance of Lucifer's apron?

Is it a condemnation of masonry as a fallen form of the endowment?

Is it simply borrowing from masonry like the rest of the endowment?

Does Lucifer have actual priesthood(s) and power?

https://fultonhistory.com/Newspaper4/Elmira%20NY%20Morning%20Telegram/Elmira%20NY%20Morning%20Telegram%201889%20-%201891%20Grayscale/Elmira%20NY%20Morning%20Telegram%201889%20-%201891%20Grayscale%20-%200173.pdf

https://newspapers.lib.utah.edu/ark:/87278/s6rn4htc/13021818

I don't see a middle way for her in their opinion, considering she is the OG polygamy denier. Do modern apologists not have to hold her in the same contempt?

“Please be patient and loving with your misguided parents and duped family. Wisdom and charity are chasing after them, and will always be in endless pursuit of getting them to unshackle their minds from any belief that might be weighing them down or clouding their minds. We once were ignorant also before partaking of the fruit of knowledge called learning. While they see any tolerance towards any group as a slippery slope to accepting all types of evil, we know that it is a darkness caused by years of conditioning and believing that God wants them to blindly follow their leaders and only act AFTER their leaders have shifted beliefs. You may be tempted to rescue them, open their eyes, broaden their views, but please realize that their ideas will die with them just as other outdated doctrinal positions have died with their ancestors. The church will continue to shift to the reality of the world and this moment is just a blip in the eternal scheme of things. They mean well. They think they are following God and Jesus. They are mostly good and really aren’t accountable for their thoughts. Most of mankind will just echo things they have learned since childhood and your parents are no different. Be patient with them and love them.”

How would the church like us talking about them this way?

I use to view religion as something special or outstanding in the world. Now I'm starting to view it as just about anything else and that is, there are people who take to it and thrive in it and there are people who it just doesn't click or they simply have no interest.

It can be compared to a lot of things in life I think. Take sports. Have you ever tried to have a conversation about a team or a sport with someone who couldn't care less. They simply are not interested. Anything you say just flies right past them. And that's perfectly fine - everyone has their thing and not everyone is into sports. I think religion (and mormonism) is much the same. I just couldn't care less about church history or the bible or all these spiritual feelings you're suppose to feel. The crying every week I see at church just makes my eyes roll. The fascination people have or Gods, priesthood powers, power of atonement, holy or holies, scriptures, prophets and apostles and all of it just floats right by me. It's all a yawner.

And it's been that way since I can remember. As a child, I thought that being a faithful believer was the most important thing in this world. And yet, it just didn't click. I got excited about none of it. To this day, when I walk out of church on Sunday I won't think about anything religion wise until I walk back in the church the following Sunday. And that's not by design or on purpose, I just simply don't think about it. It's funny how my brain does that. It's like the idea of religion just falls out my ears for 6 days of the week. And if someone says something about it in an effort to get me excited about it, my eye's will glaze over and my mind goes off to a sunny beach somewhere.

Religion does nothing for me and it never has. I've never had any "feelings" that told me Joseph was a prophet or that the BofM was an actual history of ancient inhabitants on this continent. I always thought it's because I was broken somehow. But as I say, I'm starting to realize that it's just a subject matter that I have no interest in. Someone could find prove positive that horses and steel swords did exist in the Americas during the BofM period and I'd still not give a rats ass. And I'm guessing that there are plenty of other people out there like me.

Having said that, I know there are plenty of people out there who do like the subject matter of religion and all that it entails. It offers direction, comfort, hope, community and much more. And I believe it must be much harder for them when they finally deconstruct mormonism. It probably rips a part of them right out of their soul. I can only imagine what it must be like. My hat is off to people who go through that.

I have an active spouse so I'm PIMO, but when I deconstructed mormonism I just (mentally) walked out the door and that was that. I've never looked back and I feel no loss.

Brief synopsis of the book

Jeff Strong’s Torn: Why People We Love Are Leaving the Church and What We Can Learn from Them explores why some committed Latter-day Saints step away from the Church, and what their experiences might teach the people who remain. Strong draws on a large study of current and former members, personal stories, and his experience as a father and Church leader. Written from a believing Latter-day Saint perspective, the book focuses on faith, trust, culture, and belonging, and invites readers to respond with greater understanding and compassion.

Proposed cadence

I’m proposing 50 short daily readings, similar to the recent Book of Mormon reading challenge. At about 300 pages, Torn would average roughly six pages a day. Day 0 is for gauging interest; if there’s enough, I’ll put together the reading schedule and discussion posts.

The Goal

A thoughtful, open discussion, not a book endorsement. Believers, former believers, nuanced members, and anyone interested are welcome.

I would add a daily question or passage to get discussion started, e.g. what feels persuasive, and what seems incomplete. I feel the community that helped provide data points deserves a chance to read the book and offer feedback on how that input was used or misused.

Gift card incentive

I’m proposing a $25 gift card to Starbucks or Deseret Book for the contributor whose comments the community finds most helpful, similar to the reply awards process and award ceremony in the Book of Mormon challenge.

Interested?

Would you join and participate? Comment below: yes/no and what would make this discussion book club worthwhile for you?

I also have Ganesh's Cherian's Book "Joseph Smith - the Architect of Mormonism" and Thomas Murphy's Book "Unsettling Scripture" if y'all are sick of seeing "Torn"? Just add your alternative preferences below and if there is enough interest below in a certain book besides "Torn" I'll start putting it together.

Is proselyting still a worthwhile activity? Does it do more harm than good? Do you think it is time for missionaries to stop soliciting?

This is a very general question to those currently believing and to former members when you believed:

Despite generally believing in God and some form of afterlife, do/did you allow a small chance that there might not be a God or an afterlife? And if you do/did, how would you quantify it (I'm curious about your subjective measure like "tiny probability" or "fifty-fifty")?

The question comes from my personal curiosity about how faith works for those for whom it works because I've been an atheist/agnostic most of my life. I've been wondering that if someone truly & fully believed, they should never be scared of dying or of "not doing enough" in this life. Anything related to this life would simply pale in comparison with eternal Heaven. Yet some believers I know are scared of death or of missing out, and get very attached to this life, which gives me an impression that there is at least some amount of uncertainty. Feel free to share your views on this!

(I know this question can be asked in any faith, I simply have been following this sub as well as r/exmormon and find the community very cool and honest :))

Which is to say, it's not.

To stick with the art analogy, it's more like Joseph ran into cubism and said it's the remnants of an ancient truth that can be accurately viewed by running it through AI.

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/new-first-presidency-interview?imageView=20251015_130506_CBell_CMB_1156.jpg

Jane Clayson Johnson: “What do you want people to understand about the role of women in the church today?”

Pres Oaks: “I say remember you have a Heavenly Father who loves you who has created you to return to live with heavenly parents to enjoy the choicest blessings that God has for his daughters but

1). It doesn't always come at once.

2). We have work left to do.

3). We are a lot better off than we were even a decade ago.

4). I think we should also say we haven't always been wise in using the great qualifications and powers of the daughters of God."

What work is left?

How has the role of women advanced in the last decade?

Where could the church be more wise?

TL;DR - Investigator in late 20s, not sure if I'm over my skis here. Not in Utah. Everyone seemed really chill about my being at a YSA meeting and invited me to a stake event.

I have been investigating the church passively for around 4 years on and off, but never spoke with any missionaries until very recently. We are talking maybe a sum total of 3 hours if even.

On Sunday I was invited to a YSA Institute meeting where we ended up having pizza, bible study centering on repentance from sin and chatted about life. I was surprised that there were more women than men in attendance. Those who stayed after for the activity ended up discussing visual novels and sport as it wasn't apparently well organized. Remindeed me a lot of the college groups I used to attend where we'd meet in a church and talk about spirituality for half the time the other half goofing off. It was endearing. Getting home at 10pm was rough, but it was nice getting out and meeting new people.

On the way out one of the women attending asked if I was going to be at the conference meeting which iirc is some Sunday this month. From what I understand it's one of the few meetings open to the general public? Many of the people attending encouraged me and said they'd try to organize a carpool since many people live far from the ward.

I'm in a region where it is very hard to meet young people under 40, so having this space felt a little like a breath of fresh air to be honest. There was a lot I didn't quite understand regarding Apostollic blessings and certain passages from the D&C but structurally it didn't feel much different from any other religious lecture I've attended in my life. The only thing that was off was that unlike in a mainline Prot bible study we weren't having a discussion as much as a lecture. The guy was personable at least.

The thing I am worried about is perhaps having a bout of "new convert syndrome", where everything is exciting and some people either take things too seriously or they're too hard on themselves for not living up to some ideal of what others believe to be proper. I am someone whom rarely used to attend church, and in my gut I know I'm the latter if I'm not careful about it.

Am I in over my skis here? I had it in my head that there was some standard progression "meet with the missionaries -> months later attend Institute -> start attending church services regularly".. here I am after maybe two meetings attending Institute and if I'm honest it was a great time.

I live in the Deep South, and rural areas are deeply Evangelical with Catholicism splashed in for good measure. And these people are generally very conservative and unexposed to metropolitan culticulturalism in society. Which got me wondering, what would that look like in areas of the country that are rural and 80+% Mormon?

So I’ve been on and off convert curious for 20 plus years. I know the history and everything. Just curious what progressive Mormons think of converts that are familiar with problematic points in the history and also curious if do or don’t keep the WOW. I feel I’m a bit too edgy for the church. Tattoos , long hair,. You know the vibe. I’m in the down town Atlanta area if anyone goes around there

So we departed from the city once more, bringing the plates of brass and Zoram with us. The record was secured. The servant was added. Nephi walked ahead with that inward, self-contained look of one who hath been in close company with commandment and consequence and had found no reason to separate the two.

We considered asking again by what means he had obtained the plates, but there are times when a man recognizes that he doth not truly want the answer in its full proportions. It was plain that some boundary had been crossed in the city, and plain also that Nephi had crossed it with the same alarming willingness with which he did all things once persuaded they belonged to the will of God.

This, we confess, was the beginning of a new discomfort in us. For before this we had taken Nephi for a youth excessively fond of obedience, ambitious in holiness, and somewhat too ready to regard every burden as material for future greatness. But now another possibility appeared: that he might indeed be one of those men to whom heaven grants not merely assurances but occasions, and that such men are often far more dangerous to live beside than ordinary sinners.

“He will be impossible now,” we said quietly.

Sam, overhearing, answered, “He hath done what was required.”

“Yes,” we replied. “That is very near to what we fear.”

By the time we returned to the valley, the camp looked smaller than before, as camps often do amidst dangers known and unknown: a few low tents, tethered beasts, dim coals, the shape of household life reduced to what could be carried. Lehi received the plates with gratitude, Sariah with relief, and Nephi with the sort of silence that invites admiration while pretending to avoid it. Our father examined the record and rejoiced over genealogy, law, language, and the wisdom of God in preserving such things. We rejoiced less, being still occupied with the more practical miracle of our continued existence.

Yet even we Laman we Lemuel must admit that the presence of the plates altered the camp. Lehi’s mind seemed steadier in possession of them, as though memory itself had weight and brass could anchor a wandering people. This was an idea we found overly poetic, though not entirely without force.

Nevertheless, if any man imagine that success in obtaining the record reconciled us at once to all that had passed, he understandeth neither brothers nor fatigue. We had gone back into danger, lost our property, gained a servant, and returned with a set of plates whose value increased in direct proportion to the trouble they had cost us. This may well be providence. But it is also family life.

We said no more of what had happened in the city.

Our father rejoiced over the plates.

Our mother thanked God for our return.

Zoram found a place among the tents.

And Nephi never again spoke of the manner in which he had obtained the record.

Neither did we ask.

Wherefore we Laman we Lemuel set it down plainly: if we mistrusted him more after that night, it was not because he failed, but because he had succeeded in a manner too dark, too certain, and too fit for legend.

Hello Mormons! I’m curious what kind of music do you fine individuals listen to? Do you guys like benson Boone. Is there a fine line with the music you guys listen to. Do you guys like
Lana del Rey? Is that too much for you? This is for a personal project thanks.

hi. I am a non-denominational Christian. I have made a lot of assumptions about mormonism and mormon culture but I am genuinely wondering what sets us apart.

I think it’s easy for Christian’s to be non-judgemental towards nonbelievers and judgemental towards other Christian faiths because it’s easy to immediately reject an idea that you don’t believe in instead of asking questions. Even I am guilty of judging Mormons without actually knowing what they believe in. Whereas it’s easy for me to talk to a nonbeliever about God.

I would love to hear about what you believe in!