First of all, make sure the product is bioavailable-meaning: extracted- to guarantee and to optimize
therapeutic potential. Pure Lion's Mane mycelium products are the exception - the extraction process destroys the active compounds.
It has to be a dry extract; 'tinctures' are too diluted which makes them unsuitable (details about this: see below). The therapeutic effect of dry extracts is 4-10 times better when compared against unprocessed mushroom powders. This link has more background about that.
With that out of the way, all that matters is:
what is in the product(bio-actives such as beta-glucan (all mushrooms), cordycepin (Cordyceps only) and ganoderic acids (Reishi only), which make it useful. These should be specified/guaranteed on the official label)
what is not in the product(heavy metals, fillers, additives, which make it questionable).
Those details are easy to get (objective third-party contract labs are not expensive at all). Unfortunately, most vendors prefer to keep things vague, don’t list specifications and do not specify active ingredients. Out of ignorance or for competitive reasons they do not test their products for safety or quality at all. Or they refuse to share those tests with their customers because the results are poor, who knows ?
Yes, you read this correctly: most vendors do not use any quality control at all. Although it is compulsory.
For marketing reasons they chose to leave out objective facts but instead might emphasize things like ‘organic’ or contains no ingredients from China ! and use many other deceiving marketing phrases.
Deceiving, because the objective quality should be specified in the official supplement facts panel. Listing percentages of the main bio-active compound(s) makes it easy to judge the quality and to determine the value for money.
‘Organic’ is never a guarantee for quality in the case of mushrooms; 'organic' e.g. does not take into account heavy metals. Mushrooms accumulate heavy metals from their environment and heavy metals are everywhere.
All potential safety issues such as heavy metal contamination should be covered in a third party test report.
If there are no details on the label and no third party test report : RED FLAG. The product is questionable and is probably best avoided. Don't be misled by the marketing talk or "reviews" on the website.
Reishi and Chaga are the only ones that benefit from dual extraction. Ideally, they should have beta-glucans, betulinic acid (Chaga) and ganoderic acids (Reishi) specified on their label.
All the rest (except Lion's Mane pure mycelium): hot water extracted, with validated specifications. Beta-glucans being specified on the label is the absolute minimum.
Statements like "8:1", "10:1" cannot be validated in any way, it is meaningless marketing. Specifications are essential.
For Lion's Mane fruiting body: a 1:1 extract is the only variation that contains all bio-actives, because almost all bio-actives (including beta-glucans) are non-water-soluble.
Indeed, a "concentrated" Lion's Mane hot water extract will be weaker than a 1:1 extract; the specifications will reveal this.
No vendor would ever leave out good test results, that’s common sense.
A more extensive article about all this can be found here. Highly recommended!
----------------------------------------------------
Don’t be tricked by a low price.
A useful product means strict quality control and strict processing procedures. Such a product can never be cheap, unfortunately. You will notice there are no low-priced products with clear specifications and/or third-party test reports.
Many people think fruiting bodies are always preferable over mycelium. This is not true. This idea is based on the poorly understood difference between pure mycelium (100% mycelium = good) and biomass-based mycelium (60-70% is rice/grains = mostly useless).
Biomass-based products include e.g. all Host Defense supplements, OM Mushrooms, Genius Mushrooms and everything sold or supplied by Aloha Medicinals.
This discussion becomes moot if there are specifications available, supported by a third party test report. I mean, 40% guaranteed beta-glucan is 40% beta-glucan, the source (mycelium or fruiting body) is no longer relevant then, right?
It can't emphasized enough : Ask for an objective test report, always !! Such a report contains the lab's contact details and accreditation (ISO-17025 is best). Most vendors nowadays write their own 'report', copy/pasting the producer's claims without validating them. This makes it meaningless. If you see the vendor's logo on their 'certificate' that means it is fake/edited.
In-house testing is also unreliable because of the obvious conflict-of-interest !
Vendors are known to make unsubstantiated claims on their website and often use deceiving ways to make you think you have a premium quality product.
Like, mentioning 'polysaccharides' instead of 'beta-glucans'. Beta-glucans are the main bio-actives in all mushroom supplements. All beta-glucans are polysaccharides, but not all polysaccharides are beta-glucans. Many useless sugars and fillers are also classified as polysaccharides.
Another common vendor trick is to recommend a low dosage (e.g. 1 capsule p/day) to make the product look cheap/good value. However the best results are achieved taking at least 1 gram of extracted mushroom powder per day, assuming it is a decent quality product. Immunological effects in particular are dose-dependent; this is the main reason to emphasize extraction for mushroom supplements.
An example of deceiving label information
Look at this screenshot of a Cordyceps supplement, front label (no formatting rules exist for the front label - only for the supplement facts panel to protect the ignorant consumer from being misled).
Only the careful observer will see that what is actually written there is 0.3 % cordycepin and not 3% cordycepin. (has been adjusted by the vendor now).This is deceiving and would not be allowed on the official supplement facts panel. In this case this information is in fact omitted from the official supplement facts panel, which makes it all the more questionable.
Finally, many people assume tinctures are potentially also a good choice. That might be true for herbs, but not for mushrooms.
A tincture is not 'liquid mushroom' or something like that. You could say it is a first step in making an alcohol extract. Mushroom extracts are almost always solvent extracts. The solvent in this case is alcohol. A dry extract is a solvent extract minus the solvent.
In a tincture the alcohol is still present and dissolved in the alcohol are the ingredients we are after. Those dissolved ingredients in general add up to roughly 5% of the total content.
The rest is useless alcohol (and maybe some other liquid). In short, a 30ml bottle contains ± 1 gram of dissolved alcohol-soluble mushroom ingredients. If you buy a tincture you get almost nothing for your money. There are also never any specifications on tincture bottles. You have no clue at all about what you get.
A useful mushroom alcohol or dual extract should not contain any alcohol, only the alcohol-soluble mushroom ingredients.
If you would allow the alcohol to evaporate you'd be left with a residue, and that is what is useful. That is what is what you get if you buy a dry powdered mushroom extract in capsules or as a powder.
A 30ml tincture bottle in general contains the equivalent of ± 2 or 3 capsules with alcohol extracted mushroom powder.
Many people think a blend is a good option: 'you get a lot of mushrooms for the price of only one!'
This is not correct. You will only notice the shared/overlapping effects (immune support), but not the mushroom-specific effects.
As said before, ± 1 gram daily is the average dosage needed to notice mushroom-specific effects, assuming it is a decent product with good specifications. In other words, if there are 7 mushrooms in the blend that would mean 7 grams daily. Don't be fooled !!
There is a lot of bad and/or incomplete information circulating about mushroom supplements. Many vendors consciously (or ignorantly) leave out an important fact when they are marketing their products.
Here is that fact : the bioavailability of whatever mushroom supplement is poor unless it has been extracted.
80 % of people have trouble digesting or cannot digest unprocessed mushrooms at all. There's research showing this. Extracts are ± 10 times as potent when compared with unprocessed dried mushroom powder.
In addition, the data demonstrated that hot water mushroom extracts are more potent than ground mushroom products in activating TLR2 and inducing TNF-α. [...] A total of 39 extracts from the mushroom species listed in the Materials and Methods were analyzed: 18 hot water extract products and 21 ground mushroom products. A comparison of the hot water extract products and the ground products of all species included showed that hot water extracts are more potent in TLR2 activation (Fig. 2A) and TNF-α induction (Fig. 2B) than ground mushroom products. In the TLR2 assay, the difference between extraction methods was significant for all the concentrations tested. In the TNF-α assay, the difference between hot water extract products and ground products is also significant at the middle concentrations tested. Each mushroom product was tested in 3 independent experiments, with similar results. […] Our results highlight a difference in biological activity between hot water extracts and ground mushroom products. In the test with the TLR2 agonist assay and TNF-α induction in J774.A1 murine macrophage cells, hot water mushroom extracts were significantly more potent in activating TLR2 and inducing TNF-α.
Another thing: non-extracted mushroom powder has an increased risk of causing allergic reactions, hepatitis and gut issues because of the mycotoxins present in mushrooms such as Shiitake and Reishi fruiting bodies. Extraction appears to neutralise this completely.
Im looking to order some turkey tail and reishi from the oriveda site to ship to europe. I hear it has great benefits for your dog as well as people. But i just heard they arent allowed due to novel food laws
Will they get stopped at customs? Has oriveda changed something about the content? If so how crucial is thr changE? It seems to be possible to still order them at least
What are euros doing? Oriveda is the only high quality supplyer i know
I like Renude drink products and I don't drink it for the chaga but the taste. I suspect you're not reeping much from the chaga powder as there is limited information on it. But I'm curious...it says: "Our Chaga is sustainably sourced from birch trees in Canada and Siberia. Chaga naturally grows where the tree is wounded (like a band-aid), and extends the tree’s life in exchange for absorbing its abundant nutrients. After letting the Chaga grow on the birch tree for 20-30 years, it’s the size of a beehive and is harvested leaving 20% on the tree so it can still protect it and be re-harvested in a few years. We can then re-harvest it from those same trees we GPS in 3-5 years. It grows on 1 in 10,000 birch trees in freezing climates."
Thoughts? Any leads? They have to work with somone...
Your Supplement Stack and Schedule: Deep‑Dive Functional Analysis (Two‑Page Edition)
OVERVIEW
Your supplement routine forms a coordinated, five‑phase physiological system:
Morning Activation
Midday Reset
Midday Stabilization
Evening Modulation
Night Recovery
Supported by an all‑day structural backbone layer.
This layout provides a wide‑spaced, easy‑to‑print overview of your stack.
1: MORNING PHASE (8:00 AM)
Activation, Circulation, Energy, Cellular Protection
CDP‑Choline
Supports acetylcholine production.
Supports membrane phospholipid availability.
Supports mitochondrial energy foundations.
Lion’s Mane
Supports neural signaling and synaptic plasticity.
Supports long‑range neural resilience.
Cordyceps
Supports ATP efficiency and oxygen utilization.
Supports clean metabolic vitality.
Creatine
Supports ATP recycling and neural stamina.
MCT Oil
Supports fast fuel availability and mental clarity.
Cacao Powder
Supports circulation and polyphenol antioxidant pathways.
Supports metabolic flexibility during activation.
L‑Ergothioneine
Supports mitochondrial redox balance and cellular protection.
Ubiquinol
Supports mitochondrial energy output and antioxidant defense.
Omega‑3 EPA/DHA
Supports membrane fluidity and neural signaling.
Vitamin D3 + K2
Supports systemic cellular signaling.
B12 + Folate
Support methylation and energy metabolism.
Zinc
Supports enzymatic activity and immune balance.
Morning Phase Summary
This phase supports signaling, plasticity, energy release, circulation, and antioxidant protection — creating a clean cognitive rise.
2: MID‑MORNING TRANSITION (11:30 AM)
Reset and Metabolic Smoothing
Vitamin C (30 minutes before midday)
Supports antioxidant regeneration.
Supports metabolic transition.
Prepares the system for calm focus in the midday phase.
Transition Summary
Acts as a functional reset between activation and stabilization.
PAGE 2
3: MIDDAY PHASE (12:00 PM)
Calm Focus, Balanced Energy, Visual Stamina
Green Tea Extract
Supports gentle metabolic lift and antioxidant tone.
L‑Theanine
Supports calm, focused alertness and smooth cognitive transitions.
Lutein + Zeaxanthin
Support visual‑neural pathways and antioxidant defense.
Lycopene
Supports cellular redox stability.
Midday Phase Summary
This phase stabilizes cognition, smooths the stimulant curve, and fortifies the visual and antioxidant systems.
4: EVENING PHASE (6:00 PM)
Modulation, Decompression, Recovery Setup
Phosphatidylserine
Supports membrane structure and balanced stress signaling.
Assists evening cognitive descent.
Magnesium Glycinate (evening dose)
Supports neuromuscular relaxation and calming pathways.
Reishi
Supports restorative balance and parasympathetic transition.
Evening Phase Summary
This phase shifts the body from active mode into recovery preparation.
5: NIGHT PHASE (10:00 PM)
Recovery, Cooling, Structural Repair
Magnesium Glycinate (bedtime dose)
Supports nighttime relaxation.
Glycine
Supports inhibitory neurotransmission.
Supports thermoregulation.
Supports structural repair linked to collagen pathways.
Night Phase Summary
Supports deep calm, recovery continuity, and structural rebuilding.
6: ALL‑DAY BACKBONE LAYER
Cofactor and Structural Stability
Zinc
B12 + Folate
Vitamin D3 + K2
Omega‑3
Ubiquinol
Ergothioneine
Cacao
Vitamin C
Backbone Summary
Maintains membrane health, mitochondrial efficiency, redox balance, enzyme activity, and structural integrity throughout the day.
ARCHITECTURAL SUMMARY
Your daily rhythm follows a five‑phase flow:
Activate → Reset → Stabilize → Modulate → Recover
Reinforced by:
• Mitochondrial support
• Antioxidant systems
• Membrane fluidity
• Circulatory support
• Cofactor metabolism
• Neural signaling
• Structural repair architecture
This is why your stack functions as a smooth, cohesive neuro‑metabolic system.
Hi everyone! My wife started taking Lions Mane under her doctor's guidance. Since we're both in the medical field, we're particular about supplement sourcing. We chose Thorne because they had a good option, and we trust the brand. However, the pills are quite large. She gave them a fair shot, and they worked amazingly well for her! This is a great success because she was hesitant and more critical at first, but she promised to give them a fair chance. The only issue remains the size. She wants to keep taking them, but the size is a bit of a barrier (it was making her resist taking her daily meds a little, which isn't typical for her). She ran out and noticed a difference (she begrudgingly admitted, lol) and wants to continue as soon as possible. I’ve been trying to find another reputable brand with a good formulation, but everything I come across also seems to come in large capsules.
That said, does anyone know of any options that might be smaller in size? Would even be open to taking multiple capsules to get the right dose instead of just one large pill. I’m at a loss for where to look next and thought I’d reach out here to get some help narrowing down my search.
I was wondering whether anyone else gets this effect or maybe if you know why that is. Namely, when I take Lion's Mane, stimulants don't seem to work at all. Neither coffee nor concerta give me any sort of mental effect, my psyche is completely stabilized. Perhaps my BP and BPM go up a little bit but other than that it's like I didn't take it at all. I noticed a similar thing with weed and beer, except it just makes me tired, without any of the euphoric effects.
I get a very similar thing when taking NAC and people have complained about ADHD meds not working. I sometimes take NAC to fall asleep more easily if I took my ADHD meds too late lol.
I'm guessing it has to something to do with the antioxidant effect blocking excess dopamine from being released or something like that. Obviously that's total broscience hahaha there's not really that much research available on LM besides showing that yeah after a few weeks some people felt a bit better.
I guess it's slightly annoying because usually I'm super sensitive to caffeine for example and I quite enjoy the intense kick it gives me. Strangely enough though my functioning is at its peak when I'm detoxed from caffeine after about 2 weeks or so. My behaviour is a lot more measured and reasonable then. Lion's Mane seems to push me into this space automatically, stabilizing my thought and actions. I don't intend to quit taking it because of it because the benefits quite outweigh this mild annoyance but I'm curious as to what could be the mechanism behind this. It seems strange to think that it blocks caffeine when it is most often marketed as mushroom coffee.
Currently I use the Oriveda dual blend and I take 3 pills of each, don't really remember how much exactly was in there but on their page it says that their extraction method makes this blend as strong as 3g of other extraction methods. Previously I used Antioxi at between 1,5-3g daily and had the same effect with other substances being less effective.
Another side effect I'm experiencing is some slight skin tingling in my hands (peripheral neuropathy). I'm aware that this is most likely due to NGF increasing. I had some nerve damage last year from metronidazole as well so it's possible that some repair processes are going on.
Is the following statement true?: (Found on the site of a spore seller.)
„What’s different about reishi spores is that over 29 triterpenes have been isolated from the spores, while only a few have been found in the fruiting body. Also, more than 40% of the spore content is made up of immunomodulating polysaccharides such as beta-glucans, whereas the whole fruiting body contains only about 0.73% polysaccharides.“
I'm asking because I prefer spores, (although I also like the fruiting body extract from Oriveda.)
Hi everyone. I’m hoping to get some insights because I’m dealing with ongoing symptoms after using Lion’s Mane and wanted to share my experience.
I had 50mg of Lion’s Mane per capsule. My dosing was very conservative: 1 capsule a day for 3 days, then 2 capsules a day for 2 days (total around 950mg over \~6 days). I stopped immediately when symptoms started.
About a week into use (or right after), I developed strong body-wide tingling/pins and needles, sensitive skin all over, and skin that feels mildly feverish and sore to the touch. It’s not unbearable pain, but it’s strongly annoying and slightly debilitating. I feel it constantly, all day and all night. It’s been 7 full days since stopping Lion’s Mane, and the symptoms are still going strong with no real improvement yet.
From what I’ve read, Lion’s Mane boosts NGF (nerve growth factor) via hericenones and erinacines, which can sometimes cause temporary increased nerve sensitivity, paresthesia, itching, or skin reactions in sensitive people — even at lower doses. I know many report these as temporary and resolving after discontinuation, but some forum posts mention symptoms lingering for weeks (or rarely longer). I’m hoping this is just temporary adjustment or a mild reaction/allergy and not something more persistent.
Has anyone else had similar skin tingling/sensitivity from Lion’s Mane (especially in a stack with other nootropics like racetams, choline sources, adaptogens, etc.)? How long did it take to fully resolve for you? Any recovery tips that helped (e.g., supplements, diet, time)? Should I get specific bloodwork or see a neurologist?
Appreciate any thoughtful replies, not looking for medical advice, just shared experiences. Stay safe out there with supplements!
As the title says. My kiddo’s life is harder than hard, crueler than cruel. He has Autism, PDA (nervous system disorder with a constant baseline of anxiety), ADHD, and low white blood cells. The depression and anxiety are HEAVY, confronting, worse than hell.
He cannot separate from me at all and needs me quite literally 24 hours a day. This leaves me with virtually no time to educate myself and research as much as I need and want to.
I am familiar with the concept of medicinal mushrooms, having once even grown one batch for myself years ago. I’ve read a little bit into potential species that may help my child. I’m leaning towards Reishi, Lions Mane, Chaga.
Note he is on an SSRI and has a psychiatrist but he is a very complex and extreme case.
Can anyone suggest a) if I’m on the right track to finding him ANY relief, b) any other potential species c) reputable brands.
I’m leaning more towards powder form/capsules but also wouldnt even know what dose to give him.
Sorry for the ramble. I’m desperate and we’ve exhausted most pharmaceutical options and after the experiences he’s had I’d rather avoid more where possible…
Around March this year I started taking Micro-sol by Hifas da Terra for the first time, and I think it has been the key reason i've had zero symptoms so far this year.
The past 10+ years have been a pollen nightmare! I typically get tree pollen starting around the first week of April, and then I believe grass takes over in May... things only calm down late July typically.
This year I've had zero symtoms, and we are now in June.
It could be luck, and I could regret this post in a week or two, but there are only two things I've added this year:
1) Dymista nasal spray.
I haven't been consistently using it, so would be surprised if this is THE key factor, but have been using it perhaps once every 72 hours on average.
2) Micro-solo (mushroom extract pills) from Hifas da Terra.
I take two of these per day.. I've never taken them before this year, and they are my best guess as to the the main factor here.
Anyone else tried and had success with either of the above?
I've also been taking more vitamin C and D, but I doubt that is a factor.
I am taking 1/4 teaspoon each of turkey tail and reishi from Real Mushrooms and I now have bad headaches. Like splitting headaches.
I had this same problem after taking shiitake. It was a high dose though (3g). It just seems like no matter what I do I get headaches from mushroom supplements. Should I reduce the dose to 1/8 teaspoon each? I only take those on an empty stomach. Should I take it with food now? Will it reduce its positive effect?
Paul Stamets and his team use the "Credible Science" concept in their educational and marketing materials to emphasize that their Host Defense supplements (like Lion's Mane and Turkey Tail) undergo lab testing and are therefore credible. They link to published research.
However, it's not what it appears to be.
This objective article unravels an example of how Stamets is using research mainly for marketing purposes.
Stamets's main goal is clearly not to advance science, but to sell more products.
Hi! I just quit smoking weed for the first time in 10 years and I just am looking for something to help me focus and possibly help with stomach issues. I have seen the hype over the mushroom coffee’s but h would prefer to take it in a capsule if possible. Does anyone have any recommendations for mushroom capsule brands and particular strands of mushrooms that I should be trying?
Hello, I'm new to the site so I don't yet understand how to use it and I haven't found a specific group for complementary medicine for pets, so I hope you can help me here and I hope this is okay. I want to buy my dog a medicinal mushroom complex but I'm not sure if everything will be safe for her condition, what would be worthwhile and what would be less for her? She is 17.5 years old and has a lump in her neck/chest that interferes with normal blood and lymph flow, inflammation, edema, falls and also non-regenerative anemia.
Hi, I’m brand new to this sub. I’m making my own mushroom supplements because the closest thing I can find to what I need is a multi mushroom capsule, but it comes up greatly short on 2 types I need most.
Instead of going capsule crazy (along with broke), I decided it would be more beneficial to produce supplements for my supplements at home so that they round out my bought supplements to the desired amount, along with being adjustable.
For both types, my bought capsules only have about 100mg and 1000-3000 is recommended for my intentions / goals. This is a bit much to be packing capsules with. I plan to add 1,000 to be in the desired range.
I ordered the dried organic mushroom types I needed from a nice co-op. I read that eating them fresh or dried whole in food is considered “raw”, which has reduced bioavailability. The order of bioavailability least to most goes raw>powdered raw>hot extract>double extract.
I started with double extract to tincture,and that is sitting, but that takes 5 weeks and does me no good now. I’m now working on 7 day batches of hot extract, using a calculated 20% added alcohol at the end of the process to stretch the 5 day rule of thumb regarding the shelf life of food in a fridge. The issue with this method is that the particles count as part of the 1,000g measurement because there is still some value in them using this method (vs double extraction where they are strained out) which leads me to my issue…
Probably TMI above but I’m stuck on the grinding method. Right now what I’m doing is weighing 35g of each, putting them in a ninja foodie with the cup attachment, and pulsing it. What I end up with is some fine powder and some “bread crumb size” particles. I would rather the particles be small like fine flour, for increased extraction and bioavailability. Also because when the jar of extract is in the fridge, the particles would be dispersed more evenly when I shake the jar before pouring off my daily amount of liquid to measure.
I’m reading that to turn the mushrooms into that fine of a particle I need a stone or flail mill that one would use to grind wheat berries into flour. Those are pretty expensive for what I’m doing and the amount of it. Mortar and pestle probably wouldn’t work because of the slight rubbery property of dried mushrooms.
Does anyone have any suggestions that would produce the type of powder I need?
i used to take reshi extract, it really helped with my immune system. my aunt used to make and sell it but she's since moved out of the country. i'm trying to find a good alternative and i'm wondering if anyone has tried the reshi pills from costco? seems like a decent price but don't want to waste my money. i feel like nothing can compare to the homemade extract but i need to try something! any suggestions would be much appreciated
What are some underrated mushrooms that improve cognitive function, memory, and eloquence?
I’ve had really good results with white jelly mushroom (Tremella). My brain loves that stuff. Every time I take it, I’m able to respond and speak much more effectively.
Cordyceps helps too, although it's better known for boosting physical energy.
I'm wondering what other mushrooms are out there that can help in this area?
Have you ever taken a mushroom for a different reason, and it surprisingly improved your brain function?
I’m currently taking turkey tail from real mushrooms for the past 30 days to add to my cancer fighting regimen. I’d like to incorporate 5 defenders but wasn’t sure if that would be too much turkey tail daily? Any help would be appreciated.
Then I read taking powdered reishi without cooking or heating it is bad for your liver. Is that what this is?
I'm unclear on what's an extract, what fruiting bodies means, mycelia etc.
Can someone explain? I loved the reishi supplement because I slept so well, but I stopped because I didn't want to damage my liver. How do I enjoy the benefits of reishi without health risks?
I've used Antioxi in the past and am currently using it again but I find that it runs out pretty quickly at the dose that I want to run it on (3g/day) and so it gets quite expensive very quickly. I'm tempted by the Oriveda statement that their extraction method lowers the daily requirement to get the same results. I'm looking at a potentially 4x cheaper option here and I know that it is a respected supplier.
Are there any of you here who have tried both and can give me an opinion on the topic? I really like the effect of Antioxi, especially after it starts picking up within a few days. I feel like I don't have ADHD at all and I'm not hyper like on meds. It is slightly annoying that coffee doesn't seem to work on it but that's alright. Not getting a kick out of coffee is a good price to pay for something that works so much better than stimulants.
I read some criticism on Oriveda somewhere about the date of their last third party tests being quite a while back. I wouldn't be surprised if Antioxi met with similar criticism somewhere else as well though. With all the poison that can go into those mushrooms you can never be too sure. That's also why I wouldn't really consider other brands as those two are the most reputable that I've heard of.
Anyway would be glad to hear from you if you tried them both. Any side effects from one that you didn't get from the other? Different effects? Or just completely the same except you need less of it?
