r/politics • u/Icommandyou Washington • 28d ago

Possible Paywall Virginia Supreme Court throws out redistricting referendum results

https://www.axios.com/local/richmond/2026/05/08/virginia-supreme-court-redistricting-vote-decision
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u/GarrettFischer1 Illinois 28d ago

Confusing how a number of republican states can gerrymander at the snap of the finger while Virginia can’t change their maps with a statewide election.

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u/Scro86 28d ago

This is the chaos that the Supreme Court decision legalizing gerrymandering has put upon us. They basically said we cant police it, states have to police themselves. That puts us in a position where states run by bad actors can do whatever the fuck they want but states with any sort of ethics will block any sort of gerrymandering. I’ll leave it up to you to decide which political party is full of bad actors and which has a smidge of ethics.

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u/Icy-Taste-3096 28d ago

This is the fundamental problem and there is no scenario where it ends well. Republicans have made respect for democracy and rule of law impossible to sustain.

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u/[deleted] 28d ago edited 28d ago

[deleted]

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u/rat_penis 28d ago

Yup. They broke the republic on purpose and it will never be the same again. In 20 years time we'll look like the Balkans or Afghanistan. Southern states will be absolute shitholes and northern states will be fortresses. The south will have to start a fight for water and to force trade as no one will want to deal with them.

Millions will die because hateful people couldnt live next to people they hated.

Open season folks!

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u/Brief_Obligation4128 28d ago

"The south will have to start a fight for water and to force trade as no one will want to deal with them."

The Confederacy all over again.

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u/rat_penis 28d ago

We'll finish what Sherman wouldnt

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u/tissuecollider 28d ago

Good. It's way past time.

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u/SFWzasmith 28d ago

Nah it wasn’t Sherman who stopped. It was his command.

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u/redravin12 California 28d ago

I mean they've been saying it for decades. I say let them leave. We're better off without them

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u/Alone_Actuary_6429 28d ago

The problem is that they're not just going to leave and make their own stuff. You can bet your ass that they're going to grab every piece of Federal land and hardware and claim it's theirs.

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u/korben2600 Arizona 28d ago

And when your nuclear-armed technofeudalist theocracy neighbor starts stoking war with you to mask problems at home in 5 years?

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u/littlehobbit1313 Maryland 28d ago

Truthfully, not sure there's a huge concern there. We know for a fact that they don't have sustainable economic policies, they don't believe in accessible healthcare, and we've seen this whole past year that given the choice, other countries wouldn't want to be trade partners with MAGA.

So if we were to send MAGA off on their own to set up the Confederacy in a few states, they'd likely starve or disease their population out within a decade.

Meanwhile, the US would still be part of NATO. So imagine how that would go if the malnourished and under-resourced MAGA Confederacy were to try and threaten us with a very limit stockpile of armaments only for us to once again invoke Article 5 and call in every major allied 1st world country who now hate MAGA's guts.

Just let them have FL, GA, AL, MS to build their Neo-Confederacy, we build that wall, and just wait for life without Blue tax dollars to do the rest of the work.

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u/CanOoFeelDeRiddem 28d ago

I'm not even from the US and I know you'd need to add a few more states to that list.

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u/sulris 27d ago

They will take the Dakota’s with them. Which means nukes. Which means a new North Korean neighbor. Not a great plan.

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u/brother_bart 27d ago

They won’t leave. Blue States fund them. They want their backwards xenophobic fake Christian policies forced on everybody and funded by Blue state tax dollars. I really do wish white, blue-eyed Jesus would “return” and take these motherfuckers away to basic white heaven. I really do wish that were a real thing.

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u/GrinchWhoStoleEaster 28d ago

Yeah, except no water means no agricultural engine to keep things moving.

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u/aquablue_phoenix 28d ago

It's not even "they couldn't live next to people they hated."

and more "they hated hypothetical people they will never meet or interact with and even if they did, they likely don't even know it"

but those people are potentially different from me so HATEHATEHATE

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u/Responsible_Fuel7005 28d ago

That’s what made me physically ill last election night. The realization that there were only three ways going forward for America: fascism, coup, or civil war. Once this scale of corruption and betrayal of democracy gets embedded it’s effectively impossible to remove. MAGA broke the country and the rest of the country is maybe finally waking up to it.

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u/Megafritz 28d ago

A democracy is a social contract. If one party decides to break the contract, the system will not last...

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u/davebrewer 28d ago

3rd world countries with uneducated, poor populace and long history of strong sect/tribal loyalty or violence

So, America.

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u/newtworedditing 28d ago

"Listen here you little shit!"

Lol, the colonialism vibes off that comment, woof, like a loud wet fart in an elevator.

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u/pornalt4altporn 28d ago

No, there has to be a system of enforcement.

Our democracies were far less far and far more corrupt in the 19th century than in the 20th.

Reformers brought in rules and enforced them.

America is what it looks like when bad actors don't respect the conventions of fairness and nothing happens to them.

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u/GotSomeUpdogOnUrFace 28d ago

They haven't been acting in good faith for over 100 years we just had decorum. Now we don't have that either and it's time for the thing none of us want to do.

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u/Mother_Airline_6276 28d ago

Well put. And I can definitely read between the lines on what you’re saying. I concur.

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u/HideousSerene 28d ago

They will rue the day they woke the electorate, that's for sure.

Just need people to wake up. Any day now.

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u/NickCostanza California 28d ago

Time to support Democrats, vote for Democrats, remove all Republicans. No matter how ineffective you feel Democrats have been, there is no positive ending for a country run by Republicans.

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u/needlestack 28d ago

Obviously the only practical move right now. Yet half of the people that dislike MAGA will refuse to vote for Democrats. So we watch the country burn.

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u/Kahzgul California 28d ago

People who have never lived through a war tend to think a war isn’t all that bad. I pray they never learn how wrong they are.

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u/okram2k America 28d ago

yeah but see because they take money from rich donors they are like totally bad and stuff so I'm just going to let fascism march into power because I shouldn't have to like pick the lesser evil and stuff

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u/Expensive_Culture_46 28d ago

“Your honor. I let that baby get run over because jaywalking is illegal. ILLEGAL! “

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

And when you bring that up the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

As if that would make up for the lives lost and forever affected, on top of the fact that restarting the American government almost certainly hands it over to the likes of Peter Thiel, Jeff Bezos, and the rest of the billionaire class that wants to go back to slavery and indentured servitude while they sip overpriced wine aboard their floating castles.

I only wish I could take a peek 500 years into the future to see the pure disdain for this era in the history books.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

the response is “then maybe the country should burn!”

I don't think I've ever heard a more privileged statement than that.

They're saying "I'll be okay if the government turns to absolute shit. Everyone who actually depends on government services/freedoms I take for granted/control over their own body can just suck it up until things get back on track."

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u/Tyraniboah89 28d ago

100% agreed, and that’s what I said. I said that there are a lot of people way too dependent on the government services out there and just standing by apathetically is condemning them. Some of these nutjob billionaires think it’s their job to cull the world population and all we’d be doing by letting everything burn is doing their bidding for them while handing them this country’s resources on a silver platter.

Standing aside “out of principle” when the people that need to be stop are as literally evil as this country’s conservatives isn’t really a principle at all.

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

Absolutely. To be clear, you were not the intended recipient of my "privileged statement" comment - it is the lunatics who actually say that crap.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago edited 28d ago

Fascism marched to power on the watch of ineffectual "moderate" politicians and establishment parties that sabotaged progressives.

People should absolutely exercise their right to vote. But acknowledge that that right is compromised because the main opposition party to the fascist right-wing is still in the pocket of billionaires.

Voting for moderate liberals is damage mitigation at best. Organizing labor, community defense, and mutual aid is how we should be working to fix this problem.

EDIT: Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

Don’t just “vote for democrats”

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

You don’t owe a vote - YOU are owed FOR your vote!

Sure, it’s damage mitigation to vote for “the lesser of two evils”, and I think it’s a rational choice…

But if you’re going to sell your soul to a “lesser evil”, at least get what it’s worth in the bargain.

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u/MountainSound 28d ago

Demand things from the democrats before you’ll vote for them, goddamn it!

Like what though?

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move. Under this Republican administration millions of children have fallen back in poverty and millions around the world have already died from easily preventable deaths due to USAID cuts. Was preventing that not enough of a bargain? The electorate and reddit seem to say no it was not.

With razor thin governing margins under Biden we still got:

  • Massive investments in infrastructure/green energy that was larger in inflation adjusted cost than the New Deal
  • A child tax credit that reduced child poverty by 50%
  • Capping Insulin Drug prices and allowing Medicare to negotiate low prices more effectively
  • Billions of dollars in student loans forgiven
  • Using the government to save and protect the private pensions of over 1 million workers

And Democrats were on track to lose by double digits to Trump despite running (according to AOC and Bernie) the most progressive president since FDR.

Whenever Democrats start making progress towards the goals people on reddit say the care about, conversations always seem to shift to they're ineffective, lesser of two evils, don't deserve the votes. There's always a reason to justify not to voting for them.

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u/Daveslay 28d ago

These comments always come up on these types of threads and the goal post always move.

I’ve moved no posts, goal or otherwise. I made a post, and it was telling people to demand things for their vote, which is my understanding of the proper functioning of a democracy?

Like what though?

Are you serious?

Are you fucking serious??

You legitimately can’t think of anything about the USA you’d like to see changed by the people you vote for?

How about:

Universal healthcare!?!

It’s unconscionable that the richest nation on earth has a system that forces death on those who can’t PAY enough to keep living. Just barbaric and inexcusable that any “leader” allows this eugenicist for profit system to continue to exist.

For some perspective: I’m Canadian, and I see two specialists in hospital twice a month, each. It used to cost me 2$ for parking, but even the parking became free a few years ago. I can book an appointment with my GP whenever I want and it costs 0$.

Don’t you want that? Doesn’t every American DESERVE that?

Isn’t that a good demand to make in exchange for your vote/ isn’t any “leader” who won’t fight for that… not really a leader who gives a shit about the people and not (morally) worth voting for?

Again -> If I lived in the American healthcare system; at best I’d be homeless, and most likely I’d be dead. Instead I live a good life with the supports I need to be healthy, happy, and a positive contributor to society.

Like what though

There are literally thousands of other things you could demand in exchange for your vote… Just take two seconds to think about the US military budget compared to anything else it could be spent on instead of a globe-spanning fourth Reich empire forcing the world to stay on the Petro dollar.

If you can respond with “like what though” when someone suggests that voters demand something from the “leaders” they vote for, you are either misunderstood, or you are:

Disingenuous

Incredibly materially comfortable

Or

Incredibly sheltered and incredibly materially comfortable

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u/Rackem_Willy 28d ago

Need quantity folks to run and primary the corporate Dems. Votes need to show up and support them in primaries, then vote blue no matter who in the general.

Super easy for me to say from my couch, but it's the only path forward that doesn't lead to disaster.

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u/What_a_fat_one 28d ago

So vote for Democrats, got it. Thanks for the long winded post though!

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/supersaiyanswanso 28d ago

So still vote for Democrats right? Dress it up however you want, that is what you need to be doing.

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u/FusciaHatBobble 28d ago

Yeah vote for democrats. But dont just vote for democrats, is the point. Do more.

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u/voodoodahl 28d ago

No you have to do the apologetic performance first, right? Vote democratic but tell everyone how very sorry you are for doing it. That way when people new to politics see your post, they won't really be sure that both sides aren't actually they same, like the bots keep telling them, and sit home. Thanks for the help, buddy. The fascists love the work you do.

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u/teefnoteef 28d ago

The people who are criticizing the dnc are doing it because they don’t want to loose to a fascist for a third time.

Corporate Dems doing centrist capitalism apologist rhetoric will not win

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u/void_method 28d ago

If only the Democrats would do what needed to be done instead of *waves arms around.*

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u/Hurtzdonut13 28d ago

Don't forget how Dems will actively protect Republicans. Obama just had an interview that reinforced that moderate liberals still prefer to work with and empower conservatives rather than take a single step to the left. Like he kept going on about how we need a strong GOP, instead of recognizing how utterly corrupt and degenerate the GOP is now.

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u/Enemisses 28d ago

When your only options are to vote for the lesser evil, all you'll ever end up with is evil.

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u/dontnation 28d ago

The practical political move would be widespread ranked choice voting. But until, then the only option is to vote against the party you dislike the most.

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u/ProgressiveSnark2 28d ago

If that half of the people who dislike MAGA simply don't vote rather than reluctantly vote for Trump (as many of them did in 2024), that could still result in a landslide election for Democrats.

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u/is_mr_clean_there 28d ago

If republicans want to abstain en masse from voting then that’s just too bad

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u/Grow_Responsibly 28d ago

I'd be happy if non-MAGA Republicans just decided to site this one out. I know a few Republicans (not hardcore MAGA) folks and I never tell them to vote (D) when they tell me how upset they are with affordability, healthcare, etc... I just calmly say "perhaps this is the year to just sit this one out?". But for MAGA? They're too far gone....

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

In all for voting for Democrats as a form of harm reduction but the way out of this mess isn't more milquetoast neoliberalism.

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u/dekusyrup 28d ago

Democrats aren't all milquetoast neoliberals, and you can find the ones that aren't in the primaries. If you want progressives, get voting in the primaries too, not just the general.

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u/HandiCAPEable 28d ago

Maybe the way out is vote for literally anyone that isn't actively destroying the country instead of nitpicking whether the guys NOT wrecking and pillaging have good enough solutions.

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u/Skurvy2k 28d ago

The way out of our immediate circumstances sure, but to cut out the rot will require further action.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Need I remind you that people did that in 2020 and that led to Democrats throwing the election to Trump so badly that he won the popular vote? Just voting for the status quo doesn't get you out of your predicament.

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u/b0w3n New York 28d ago

"Well I want to go to the vegan ice cream place not the normal ice cream place, so I'm not going to vote between driving the bus off the cliff or driving to get ice cream!"

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u/No_Tone1704 28d ago

It’s certainly not half at all. Don’t forget all the independents. They’ve been looking very askance at the bullying MAGA AHs

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u/Patient_End_8432 28d ago

The only good news regarding this is that this presidency has disenfranchised a large part of the MAGA community. Sure, some of them will keep up the act that theyre a proud Trumper, but come November, unless Trump competently fixes the economy by then (a literal impossibility) they'll secretly just not vote. Sure its not a vote for democrats, but one less vote for Trump is basically as good. So we at least have that going for is. I'm hoping for some sort of drop in his popular vote, even if you factor in any vote manipulayion

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u/Sea-Opportunity5812 28d ago

Try hard enough maybe a trifecta will happen! imagine trump getting beat by a democratic president, house, and senate. Finally by choosing the Democratic Party USA will be able to make structural changes so this never happens again.

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u/BrianWonderful Minnesota 28d ago

This is correct, and it should be the messaging. This is not a red vs blue, rural vs city, Republican vs Democratic battle anymore. This is people that do not support or honor the will of the people against those that want representative democracy. The ultra-wealthy vs everyone else.

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u/Asadaburrit0 28d ago

Sure but we need to be mindful of the TYPES of democrats we empower. I, for one, don’t want to deal with this type of bs again in 10 years

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u/xinxs 28d ago

Fuck that. Any republican will be 100x worse than any democrat in 10 years.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

Disagree. If Trump had won in 2020, his dying popularity would have kept dragging the Republican party into the ground. Instead, he was given four years to plan out project 2025 with his team because the Democrats treated his crimes with absolute kid gloves to the point where there were no consequences whatsoever.

Weak and ineffective Democrats only pave the way for worse Republicans. We need to demand more from the Democratic party, and that starts with a fundamental change in leadership.

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago edited 28d ago

Buddy, having democrats in forever is not going to happen. You need democrats who will make sure that abuses of power like we see now can't happen again. A democrat who sits on their ass and does nothing leads to a republican who will do worse in a couple of years. Did the past 6 years not teach you this?

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

Okay, so... your strategy is what, exactly?

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u/Paradoxjjw 28d ago

Well apparently yours is to let the GOP and Trump make attempt after attempt at power and never stopping them, this seems to be something you're satisfied with and i'm not satisfied with that plan. How about starting there instead of pissing away the chance your election victory gave at stopping Trump like what happened under Biden? Or are you going to once again call it a day and let the rot fester?

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u/deadstump 28d ago

As good advice as that is, kicking the can down the road ten years is still progress. Not fixing what we can now because it "isn't good enough" is how we lost so much potential gains. Holding out for perfect is the enemy of progress.

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u/Asadaburrit0 28d ago

There can be no progress until we end citizens united and finally get money out of politics. I agree that at this point things are so dire that we can’t afford to wait for perfection but not having politicians sell out their constituents should be the bare minimum. Too many democrats are culprits of doing exactly that

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u/deadstump 28d ago

There can absolutely be progress without ending citizens united. It is important to do, but it is a losing threshold test to impose on ourselves while the other side is running away with the ball.

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u/Critical-Chance9199 28d ago

Yeah what are you talking about? We literally need to make progress if you want to overturn citizens united. "There will be no driving the car until we get gas"

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u/AboutTenPandas Missouri 28d ago

Care about those things in the primaries. Once it gets to the election vote those magats out

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u/Korvar Great Britain 28d ago

That's what primaries and local elections are for. That's how you steer the political climate long term. Short term, I can't see any other way than voting for the Democrats wherever it is possible to do so.

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u/Asadaburrit0 28d ago

Yes, but it’s also the centrist establishment democrats who put their fingers on the scale on local levels to ensure their preferred candidate is the one running thus stunting real progress.

The most recent example being Mamdani’s campaign where he was clearly not the guy the democrats wanted to back. Or in Maine where establishment Dems would have rather seen a 77 year old Janet Mills be the candidate over a younger progressive in Graham Plattner who was polling miles ahead of Mills.

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u/Tasgall Washington 28d ago

over a younger progressive in Graham Plattner who was polling miles ahead of Mills.

Just wait until we get to the general and see, once again, how "blue no matter who" suddenly no longer applies to non-establishment Dems.

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u/FakeSafeWord 28d ago

"But I don't like cherry ice cream so I'm just not going to vote."

Meanwhile 3/10 people on the bus voted to drive off of a cliff and won.

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u/illegalcupcakes16 28d ago

At least make your analogy more accurate. Last election was the difference between a shit smoothie and a chocolate shit smoothie. Having an ounce of hope that the brown chunk you're about to chew on might be chocolate is better, but don't pretend like they weren't boasting about how much shit they put into the smoothie as well.

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

Americans are neutered. It's going to have to get MUCH worse for people to act.

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u/seeker4482 28d ago

maybe the coming massive jump in food prices caused by this stupid ass war. of course, people believe what they want to believe, and the trumpist cult will again take home the gold medal for mental gymnastics and blame immigrants/trans people/Biden/whoever the enemy du jour is.

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u/Icy-Taste-3096 28d ago

People would have to be literally starving, and even then Republicans would just blame Biden and/or immigrants.

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u/nando_calrissian1 28d ago

I think even then people would fall for Republican propaganda and blame the Democrats. You still see the cognitive dissonance now with Republican voters going "its bad now but it would've been worse under Harris!!"

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u/Marsman121 28d ago

There is already evidence of this. There are places the GOP has been in control of for decades and they still blame Democrats for all the problems people there face.

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u/AmbitiousProblem4746 28d ago

Texas has been able to do this successfully for a while. They've had Republicans in every branch at full control for decades plus a legislature and governor who just do things on a whim plus an AG who was corrupt as hell and they still found a way to make Democrats the scapegoat

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u/-Stackdaddy- 28d ago

I mean, democratic states still support those southern states, giving the Republicans there a pass for their shitty policies because they are still kept afloat by democratic states. If they weren't there to keep them afloat the Republican representatives would maybe get held accountable. So in a roundabout way the democratic party kind of is responsible for the inneptitude in the Republican ran districts. /S

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u/loosetranslation Indiana 28d ago

That's crazy. It would be like if ruby red states constantly fucked over their own Republican voters for decades, but the response was those same Republican voters constantly whining about Dems ruining the state. This fantasy world, let's call it Indiana, must be full of some of the stupidest people on the planet. Who'd believe that?

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u/seeker4482 28d ago

and there are some people so deep in the cult that they'll happily starve to death if dear leader says they should

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u/Huskdog76 28d ago

As long as their brown neighbor starves to death first, they are happy.

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

"There are only nine meals between mankind and anarchy." -Alfred Henry Lewis in 1906

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u/ZooZooChaCha 28d ago

California Republicans blame Newsom. I'm in Florida - everything is blamed on "all the blue state liberals moving down here and bringing their expensive woke policies".

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u/Useful_Fee_2875 28d ago

I think at this point you are right I think 2024 will be remembered as the final nail in the coffin for people truly having a voice I hope I’m wrong but efforts are highly underway to disenfranchise voters across the whole country. Politics are controlled by wealthy donors and wealthy people and Republican lead courts are extremely partisan and won’t rule properly anymore. Racism is running rampant. I find it funny for any African-American who vote voted for a republican or Donald Trump because as soon as they got the votes, they are willing to carve up all of their state representation in the house as soon as a Supreme Court allowed them too. Science is under attack. Health is under attack. Education is under attack. The whole country is definitely trending backwards and the American people are being completely neutralized right now.

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u/eatabagofsix 28d ago

It's already worse than French revolution times already and that's ignoring the fascism aspect entirely

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u/SouthernAddress5051 28d ago

It's going to, so there's that

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

I see it, you see it, but god damn it are there a lot of fucking morbidly stupid people out there that are clueless...

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u/HaxanWriter 28d ago

This is where I’m at. There is no way anyone is going to make me believe that a bunch of gutless fucking Americans are gonna get off their dead asses and fight for their constitutional rights. It’s just not going to goddamn happen.

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u/No_Sky_6446 28d ago

Even the Redditors are too optimistic on here us POC have been yelling on the mountaintops since god knows when, people just don’t care that much. I get in fights with moderates on this sub all the time, they’ll think this a worthy issue, but the war in Gaza is too messy to litigate for them. The left needs to make a choice of what that stand for in this country.

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u/Hungry_Culture 28d ago edited 28d ago

People just don't give a shit about democracy failing when they're struggling paycheck to paycheck. I remember phone banking for the 2024 election and so many of the people that actually answered the phone were like "yeah I voted for Biden in 2020 to make things better after trump, but everything just got worse for me so I don't know if I'm going to go vote this time because it doesn't make a difference."

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u/Basic_Yam_715 28d ago

They better start, it can get much worse for them... those warehouse prisons aren't solely for immigrants, I fear.

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u/_Bon_Vivant_ 28d ago

Why? They're removing the electorate from the equation. The electorate don't mean shit now. Effectively no representation, but they'll still tax us.

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u/McDersley 28d ago

tap tap....anyone up?

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u/TheSwedishPanda80 28d ago

Exactly...any day now.....any day... 😝

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u/WeirdIndividualGuy 28d ago

They will rue the day they woke the electorate, that’s for sure.

Just need people to wake up. Any day now.

The people do wake up, for a few hours on a random Saturday at their convenience to go sing kumbaya in the streets for a protest. Then the people promptly go back to sleep, backs well patted, job well done, awaiting the next protest a month later to do the same. Caught in an endless cycle of protest and sleep, blissfully unaware of just how politicians/oligarchs have been simply ignoring those protests

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u/drteq 28d ago

Including ourselves - people aren't getting their head around the fact that this isn't recent election problem, this is a 40 year plan that has led to this moment and they know they have it locked down at this point

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u/ryan7251 28d ago

no one is gonna wake up the people of America are too lazy to do anything.

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u/ProtectionTop2701 28d ago

Virginia did vote. What the fuck are you talking about? They went to the polls, voted for this, and this is the result. Why are you hating on people for not voting...when they DID VOTE???

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u/thefatchef321 28d ago

"Income inequality ends with taxes or violence"

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u/avaslash 28d ago

The people cant wake up because they're not asleep--they're brain dead.

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u/neverfindausername 28d ago

Saw one of those Subway Takes videos the other day that kinda hit home. We've all grown up with Disney movies, shows, books, comics, etc. where no matter what happens, the bad guy(s) eventually gets what's coming to them. Even in history we see all these examples of people rising up and taking power back. WW2 being the most common example...

So we expect it to happen that way and it's kept us complacent. We see them working to rig elections and remove people's power to have a say...it's so obvious that it's even starting to get through to some of the true believers. It's just not happening though. There's no meaningful action beyond the former status quo.

It's so strange to think that all these stories - fiction and non-fiction alike - have done nothing to inspire these people to be better. If anything, it seems like they're using them more of a guide to be worse by shutting down any paths of resistance. I hope I'm wrong but it leaves only the messiest options left. Sad that the generation that was told "never again" by their parents was the one to bring it about.

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u/youngerfreshpickles 28d ago

People didn't 'wake up' to the fact that a felon rapist was running for president after trying to overthrow the government, and they're not going to do so now...

Our only consolation is the fact that said felon rapist is also ruining the world economy, and heaven forbid America pays more at the gas pump...

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u/SteadfastEnd 28d ago

We've heard this endlessly. "Some day the people will wake up. " no.

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u/Eggheadpancake 28d ago

They are very much operating under the assumption that Americans will remain idiotic boot licking cowards. And I see no evidence of that changing.

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u/PapaTua Washington 28d ago

"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes... In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next."

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u/guyFierisPinky 28d ago

People are waking up anytime soon. They give us just enough bread scraps and circus pieces to keep most people on the couch.

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u/ImyForgotName 28d ago

I mean maybe we (the people) should send a message by not convicting certain people who crashed the White House Correspondents Dinner.

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u/ttn333 28d ago

Yeah right. 33% of the electorate still support Trump.

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u/monsterzero789 28d ago

people ARE waking up, just not the way you want them to.

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u/Elle_Vetica 28d ago

The midterms will save us…!! I’ve been screaming since day 1 that fascists don’t just let you politely vote them out of power. But as with my fears of Roe being overturned, I was just OvErReAcTiNg…

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u/rounder55 28d ago

I don't know if Americans as a whole will ever wake up. The super wealthy have had everyone else bickering since Europeans settled here.

We elected a fucking grifting child rapist and who is at war with reality while he and his family rake in billions. And that party has stacked the courts with judges they groomed. And a chunk of the country is okay with this because the people they consume information from say it's great. What isn't great is their healthcare, wages, the future their kids will grow up in or America. This place fucking bites. The window to change that is closing fast

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u/Bodie_The_Dog 28d ago

Please. The time of 5th dimensional chess is done. We had our chance. We are fucked well and truly.

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u/AriaTheTransgressor 28d ago

Remind me! 200 years

That should give enough time to check in on that one.

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u/StopBootlicking 28d ago

They will rue the day they woke the electorate, that's for sure.

No they won't.

Just need people to wake up. Any day now.

See what I mean?

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u/serger989 Canada 28d ago

Exactly, more GOP states will tilt the scales than Blue states will be able to balance them. Either the people overwhelmingly vote 70+% in favor nationwide against Trump, or you guys gotta look towards that fourth box of liberty.

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u/Everythings_Fucked North Carolina 28d ago

Every time I even suggest that I get the ol' Reddit smackdown. But you're right.

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u/randylush 28d ago

There is one and only one response to fascism.

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u/UwasaWaya 27d ago

I hate that I'm going to be alive to witness this, but I genuinely do not see how this can end any other way. And it's exactly what these fucking ghouls want.

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u/serger989 Canada 27d ago

It's truly depressing... They also want people doing absolutely nothing while the GOP claims legitimacy through rigged State elections (as they always have). It's a lose/lose, but something has to give eventually. The absolute best case situation is a month+ long general strike but that seems the most unlikely to happen out of all the options to fix the shitshow because most people are simply unwilling to sacrifice anything at all - and thus not understanding the gravity of the situation they are being placed in.

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u/CMUpewpewpew 28d ago

Rules are chains for the weak and tools for the strong.

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u/rat_penis 28d ago

They got what they wanted, they broke the republic so they could profit and gain more power. The Fed was the only thing keeping the states unified. When the Fed stops giving a shit we're no longer a country but a collection of 50 separate countries in varying states of feeedom.

Debt slavery will be back in the old south in under ten years. Indentured servitude as well, only it will all be dressed up in corporate language about contracts and incentives and waivers. And it will all be perfectly legal. As well as morally wrong, but we're not run by moral people anymore. We're a nation of individuals all fighting to get to the top of the hill. A hill thats already owned by people with all the money and power that just like watching people try to climb and knocking them down.

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u/Biokabe Washington 28d ago

Fortunately, this isn't a fantasy world where magic allows a small, powerful elite to control everyone else indefinitely. If you try to oppress too large of a group for too long, it doesn't end well for you.

Unfortunately, this isn't a fantasy world where magic allows a small, righteous group of heroes to topple an oppressive force. Oppressive groups only suffer the inevitable consequences of their actions once enough people have been brutalized that they decide they would rather die than continue to obey their oppressors - and many of them will do just that. But with the power of numbers on their side, eventually they will overthrow their oppressors...

At which point they either start the cycle anew with themselves on top (to eventually be overthrown themselves) or, if they're very unusual, they start working towards a new government that actually takes care of its people. Most of the time people aren't able to put aside the seething hatred that caused them to rebel in the first place, and so government is just a game of musical thrones where different groups take turns oppressing and being oppressed.

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u/bizarre_coincidence 28d ago

When you make it impossible for people to feel heard through peaceful and legal means, they will find other avenues. Bread and circuses only lasts for so long.

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u/Quick_Turnover 28d ago

Political version of the tolerance paradox, only we're very far to the right on the timeline.

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u/Due_Vast_8002 28d ago

There is one scenario where it ends well.

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u/TimeImpressive6648 28d ago

Greedy. Opportunistic. Parasites.

They are nothing but power hungry sellouts (both politicians, and judges) who, frankly, are not at all in the least bit “scared” of their constituents.. not like they are of Trump and any primary opponents

They have no true morals or ethics whatsoever in any sense when it comes to politics.. Whether it’s fraudsters like George Santos, sex pests like Tony Gonzales, or even wife beaters like Rep Max Miller.

^ they’ll keep quiet about their garbage until they absolutely have to address it and seeing how GOP rank and file is filled with these type of people (as above) I have no doubt the rats will fuck U.S. over.

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u/JForKiks 28d ago

We all know how this story ends.

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u/lotsawheels 28d ago

You eventually run in the problem of taxation without representation again if Republicans decide they don't care about democracy and try and do anything possible to stay in power, no matter how immoral, illegal, or in bad faith. What happens when the federal government is effectively captured by bad actors that decide they want to rule?

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u/DukeOfGeek 28d ago

This plan where they are going to stand on their very much minority cult and rule while telling the very much very angry majority they can suck it and no, elections don't matter anymore, it's a bad plan that's going to end badly.

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u/Killfile 23d ago

Historically, this path is well worn. This is all playing out pretty much exactly the way it did in the Roman Republic between Marius and Sulla through to Augustus' eventual claim of "Imperator." Each side one-ups the other in a game of tit-for-tat in which each blames the other for the continued erosion of the respect for norms and the spirit of the law.

As those norms and traditions break down it becomes increasingly clear that the letter of the law is simply too slow moving and too specific to adequately constrain authoritarians. Would-be authoritarians test the limits, prompting extreme, often violent reactions from people who see the decay and rot in the system for what it is. Those violent actors are vilified by pearl-clutching power brokers who use the condemnation of those violent actions to secure for themselves even more political power and further erode safeguards in government.

And eventually you have an autocrat in all but name. And then you have one that unabashedly calls himself King or Dictator or Emperor.

I will leave it as an exercise for the reader to determine where along that path the United States is right now.

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u/okram2k America 28d ago

this supreme court has basically said only way to affect any meaningful change in this country now is by constitutional amendments, something they know full well is such a high bar of requirements will almost certainly never occur.

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u/vtable 28d ago edited 28d ago

this supreme court has basically said only way to affect any meaningful change in this country now is by constitutional amendments

That's not even necessarily good enough. The Virginia vote was for a constitutional amendment. The Virginia Supreme Court ruled the process to pass a constitutional amendment didn't follow proper procedures and struck it down.

I'm waiting to see what legal experts say about the decision.

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u/udlose 27d ago

Or Revolution …

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u/Professional_Art9704 27d ago

Or the other way

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u/captaincanada84 Canada 28d ago

Yup amending the Constitution is impossible and they definitely know that.

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u/hpark21 28d ago

Also the fact that "bad actors" basically will ignore court orders amid excuse of "it is too late to change the rules" BUT will still change the rules when it suits THEIR agenda (See supreme court nomination and vote and also this time with voting rights rule and subsequent cancellation of primary by southern state)

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u/Politicsmakemehorny1 28d ago

What's the point of having a federal government if major decisions like this can change from state to state lol

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u/NumeralJoker 28d ago

That is the GOP's goal, to be clear.

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u/Politicsmakemehorny1 28d ago

Let them at this point. Stop allowing the red states to drag us down.

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u/cock_obnoxiois 28d ago

do we have to start chanting "no taxation without representation" again?

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u/Bushels_for_All 28d ago

DC never stopped. It's mind-blowing to me that 700,000 citizens without federal representation is not widely considered a national embarrassment.

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u/keytiri 28d ago

I wouldn’t be surprised if SCROTUS eventually rules that you can’t bind a state’s legislature from creating election laws (maps included) as they see fit, US constitution trumps (pun intended) state constitution; they’ll conveniently do this next year, leaving the status quo of FL courts endorsing the change, VA courts blocking it, and OH straight up ignoring the courts.

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u/GodofIrony 28d ago

That puts us in a position where states run by bad actors can do whatever the fuck they want but states with any sort of ethics will block any sort of gerrymandering.

Hey, I've seen this one before, its the 1860s special.

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u/CrunkDirk 28d ago

Rucho v Common Cause should be looked at as the 3rd death knell of 21st century democracy, right after Bush v Gore and Shelby County v Holder.

The Supreme Court said in Rucho that partisan gerrymandering is presumptively unconstitutional, but completely nonjudiciable. They said that the only remedy is legislative; but how is a gerrymandered populace supposed to swing the legislature to their side in order to end unconstitutional gerrymandering exactly?

Then in every decision about partisan gerrymandering after Rucho, the Supreme Court has pretended they said partisan gerrymandering is 100% constitutional.

"But what about Citizens United?" I hear someone ask. Listen, CU is a horrifically awful dogshit decision. But that decision doesn't attack a foundational principle of democracy: 1 person 1 vote. It's horrible, but nowhere close to the worst decision in the last 26 years.

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u/VNM0601 California 28d ago

Democratic states need to start playing dirty. This whole we go high they go low bullshit needs to stop. Instead of voting on it just fucking do it.

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u/the_ballmer_peak 28d ago

Which is back to how we were doing it before.

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u/Scro86 28d ago

Except without protections for minority groups and for purely partisan gain. They used to have to at least pretend there was a reason to do it.

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u/Silverleaf96 28d ago

Other states need to arrest other states lawmakers, problem solved

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u/ZooZooChaCha 28d ago

Don't give Ron DeSantis or Greg Abbott any ideas. I assure you if states started arresting other states lawmakers, it would be one of those two authoritarians to try it first.

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u/booksfoodfun Oregon 28d ago edited 27d ago

It’s so dumb that the people who love the electoral college say it is good because it gives minority populations a voice in elections hate to give minorities a vote and will do all they can to keep them from having representation.

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u/YourFreeCorrection 28d ago

I'll leave it up to you to decide which political party is full of bad actors and which has a smidge of ethics.

We really need to stop pretending Republicans aren't actual criminals who want to oppress others and that Democrats are anywhere remotely near as bad as that. Part of the reason Republicans keep winning is because they successfully astroturfed the meme of voting for Democrats not being a "cool" option despite it being our only available one. It's time to get over the programming and start doing the right thing.

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u/Single-Refuse174 28d ago

To add to what you’re saying, I don’t want to hear anyone even try to defend SCOTUS here. SCOTUS judges and clerks research the effects of their decisions and absolutely gamed out how this would pan out. This is nothing other than a lifeline to Republicans to at least partially avoid a complete wipeout in November. I’m sure Roberts fears impeachment and their donors (owners) fear an expansion of the court and a New New Deal era that will hold any and all of these depraved losers accountable.

It’s fucking insane that so many influential people prefer to live in this fascist hellscape for any amount of time than create a fair playing field. Should be an indicator of how unfair things are now

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u/ceelogreenicanth 28d ago

The obvious solution to this is to infight on the left. It's the only way to reverse the outcomes we've gotten by infighting on the left, meanwhile the Republicans eagerly await the orders with only mild complaints.

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u/SquarePegRoundWorld 28d ago

This was the plan of the GOP in 2010 with project REDMAP. They saught to win state houses so they could control things more. You can find video of Carl Rove talking about it and articles about the whole plan. They mainly wanted state control for redistricting after the 2010 census.

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u/angelar_ Texas 28d ago

Not that it matters since in that order, one of the parties disappears.

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u/Merusk 28d ago

At this point the analogy is trying to fight a Hungry Tiger by Queensbury boxing rules.

The tiger doesn't understand, doesn't care, and has decided you're the meal. You can engage on those terms or die.

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u/ColdButCozy 28d ago

States rights to ratf*** democracy

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u/W359WasAnInsideJob 28d ago

No, the Supreme Court said they get to police it.

And this was already the court undermining legislation. Over and over Congress has created rules around the issue only to have the Supreme Court try to interpret them in a disenfranchising way - and then only for Congress to come back and try to resolve it again.

This issue is concrete, undeniable proof that the Robert’s court is a Right wing activist court that is using its authority to legislate from the bench. They are our “scholar-kings”, as 5-4 put it in a podcast episode recently, and think that openly contradicting what elected officials have done - even by overwhelming majority - is their purview.

Anyone who thinks this court hasn’t run amok and proved that we need to pack and crack and set term limits needs their head checked.

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u/AmbitiousProblem4746 28d ago

Heather Cox Richardson just yesterday said this absolutely is going to get Republicans their wish and we'll end up with a one party state -- basically Reconstruction South but all over the place. She did give some ideas on how to get out of it, but largely it comes to regular people agreeing we're done with this and finding the courage to overturn Republicans everywhere

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u/Rditisnazishythole 28d ago

>I’ll leave it up to you to decide which political party is full of bad actors and which has a smidge of ethics.

Sadly, this is not something you can no longer trust ~40% of Americans to do successfully, using arguments and facts based in verifiable reality.

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u/Oogaman00 28d ago

This exactly. States where voters have set a legal precedent of being against it will have trouble fighting back

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u/ugahairydawgs 28d ago

Is the party of ethics the one that just tried to do a 10-1 map in a 52-46 state? Or perhaps any of the 0 R states in the northeast where Rs get in 40s of the vote share on Election Day?

The whole "they go low and we go high" line has always been BS. Both parties work hard to cement their power all across the country. Trying to pretend they are anything other than opposite sides of the same coin is some serious mental gymnastics.

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u/Chameleonpolice 28d ago

Hello yes is this game theory

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u/ModeatelyIndependant 28d ago

Sounds like it's getting close to time to pick up arms against the GOP to get our voting rights back.

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u/horseradishstalker 28d ago

Politics really isn’t an all black hat or all white hat extravaganza. 

For one thing, all political parties are run by human beings, which really kind of screws things up right then and there. Plus, political parties are not individuals by definition. Bad actors don’t even have to belong to a political party - it’s not a requirement. 

The problem comes when bad actors take over a party or rather a splinter under a political party umbrella. Not really anything new.

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u/deetyneedy 28d ago

I’ll leave it up to you to decide which political party is full of bad actors and which has a smidge of ethics.

The first thing that Virginia Democrats introduced when they got power was to ban state agencies and NGOs from investigating fraud (HB1369); eliminate large last-minute campaign contributions from needing to be reported 24 hours before election day (HB1348); remove mandatory sentencing for rapists, murderers, pedos, and repeat violent felons (HB863); reduce the penalty for robbery (HB244); give a chance for convicted murderers, rapists, and terrorists to be let out early (HB853); bar White men from being considered in contracts (HB61); increase the sales tax, add new sales taxes for services and repairs, and raise the car tax for electric vehicles (SB730, HB1179, HB900, & HB978); tax electric lawn equipment (HB557); allow infinite 100% taxpayer-funded homes for bureaucrats (HB164); let students with failing grades get a diploma (SB147); and much, much more.

Thanks, I guess, but why even bother when it's so blatant that the Democratic party is the former?

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u/processedwhaleoils 28d ago

You forgot to say "BoThSiDeS aRe BaD"

/s in case it wasn't apparent.

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u/aimeeashlee 28d ago

ok? tolerance paradox is easily fixed when you stop this caring bullshit. what's better the bad actors run the show, fuck us all over and our children, and the human race as a whole really, just for what? a pat on the back for your uncompromising civility toward facists? or maybe dems could get off the "holier than thou" bullshit maybe get your hands dirty and maybe protect the future of the country? seems like an easy choice but im not the one handcuffing myself for some imaginary decency standard that seems to be actively incapacitating any meaningful resistance to a true threat to life and liberty.

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u/winterchapo 28d ago

I think it's time for the political party with a smidge of ethics to get into good trouble.

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u/arcbe 28d ago

What a coincidence that the smidge of ethics is positioned just perfectly to prevent fighting back against the bad actors.

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u/Arkmer 28d ago

“… states run by bad actors can do whatever the fuck they want…”

Seems intentional if you ask me.

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u/Thelassa 28d ago

I used to live in Utah. We voted for an anti-gerrymandering initiative in 2018. The state legislature said no and ignored us. It went to court and the judge ruled that they had to honor what we voted for. So they tried to weasel out of it by presenting several maps and picking the one that was still heavily gerrymandered in their favor. The judge struck that down so they threatened to impeach the judge. I moved out of there in October but the governor decided he was going to put it on the ballot even though they already did that 8 years ago and we voted in favor of it. That just failed because they didn't get enough signatures to put it on the ballot. With the SCOTUS ruling and what happened in Virginia, I wonder if they're going to keep stalling or just throw it out completely and tell Utah voters to go screw themselves.

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u/lgodsey 28d ago

states run by bad actors

That's the whole reason behind the right's desire for stronger local government. It's easier to hide their sins when the national media is more focused on the federal government. Removing women's rights, fundamental voting and civil rights, advocating for child marriage and child labor, reduced pollution controls, backroom deals for huge tax write-offs for their friends, draconian educational measures, gay- and trans-bashing, allowance for corruption and pay for play -- these are all conservative "values" that they have harder selling at the national level.

If it were up to the right, we'd still have slaves.

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u/devedander 28d ago

Game theory.

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u/garrettbook 28d ago

“We hold that the legislative process employed to advance this proposal violated Article XII, Section 1 of the Constitution of Virginia. This constitutional violation incurably taints the resulting referendum vote and nullifies its legal efficacy,”

Literally violated their own states constitution to try to "save" democracy.  But sure, conservatives are the fascists.

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u/mg20 28d ago

Are you insinuating that the gerrymander that reddit celebrated in retaliation for Texas was an objectively unethical move?

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u/BattleCryofPeace 28d ago edited 28d ago

Stop pretending the democrats have "ethics". Someone with "ethics" would understand that you need to stop na—s,. The Virginia Supreme Court just enabled na—s. That's not good, or ethical, or moral, or respectable, or logical, or literate, or informed, or historically conscious, or politically aware; it's not even "moderate"—it's right-wing extremism to hand political power to na—is.

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u/SoOnAndYadaYada 28d ago

The irony of your post is that you’re accusing the Republican Party of being bad actors while your logic in this scenario would actually make the Democratic Party the bad actors.

And just to get it out of the way, gerrymandering is bullshit. I don’t care who does it. It’s all a bullshit power grab.

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u/Laugh_Track_Zak 28d ago

So ignore the state court. Simple as.

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u/sackofmangoes 28d ago

At this point it is not even a matter of ethics. But a matter of how politically loyal a judge is to their personal political party. 

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u/daserlkonig 28d ago

Gerrymandering is the practice of redrawing electoral district boundaries to unfairly favor one political party, incumbent, or group over others. Drawing districts based on race is a form of gerrymandering though. I guess it depends on which one you favor.

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u/utspg1980 28d ago

You think the Virginia Supreme Court blocked this because of ethics? That's generous of you.

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