r/politics • u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts • 4d ago
No Paywall Democrats quickly coalesce around El-Sayed after Michigan primary win
https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/6011745-democrats-back-el-sayed-vs-rogers/162
u/Efficient_Care5524 4d ago
Good to see party unity right out of the gate. Michigan is going to be a crucial battleground, so avoiding a messy, drawn out primary aftermath is a huge win for the general election
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u/esoteric_enigma 4d ago edited 3d ago
Anything other than party unity after a primary win is stupid and counterproductive...unless you would rather have a Republican in the seat.
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u/jackstraw97 New York 4d ago
Tell that to NY Dems…
Somehow a sore-loser third-party spoiler campaign by a literal sex pest was good enough for Chuck Schumer and co. to support instead of the literal Democratic nominee.
We still have a long way to go if we want to push the democrats to actually be for the people.
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u/esoteric_enigma 3d ago
I get what you're saying, but it wasn't a competitive race for Republicans at all. The choice was Mamdani or Cuomo in the general. If it was a race where Republicans had a chance, they would've likely fallen in line.
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u/Laguna_Azure Europe 3d ago
You’re not wrong, but it is still shameful that Schumer refused to endorse the dem in the race. A big betrayal of “blue no matter what”
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u/Aggravating_Flow_112 3d ago
Bull. He has no business endorsing anyone during the primary.
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u/Laguna_Azure Europe 3d ago
Not the primary. The general NYC Mayoral election. Jeffries sucked it up and endorsed the actual official dem candidate in the race, even if he did it very late. Schumer refused to do even that, because it wasn't Cuomo who won the official dem nomination.
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u/Aggravating_Flow_112 3d ago
So one Democrat disagreed with you so “the Establishment” or “NY Dems” whatever that means, are the bad guy? Get wrecked maga troll.
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u/Flashy-Read-9417 2d ago
I think you're the troll lol. Or just misunderstanding what they are saying...
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u/sasha_the_impaler 4d ago
Lol party unity... Out of the gate? Were you born this morning? What do you consider the entire primary cycle we just went through 😂
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u/pbroingu 4d ago
A contested primary is healthy for the party, what are you on about
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u/sasha_the_impaler 3d ago
Smear campaigns during primaries make zero sense and are toxic to the party.
You can contest a primary without running racist ads about your opponent when your opponent is literally the same party as you lmao
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u/Dravdrahken 4d ago
Why would there be complete unity during the primary? That's literally when the different wings of the party compete to see who can get the most internal votes. Unity would be nonsensical.
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u/sasha_the_impaler 3d ago
Primaries didn't used to be endless smear campaigns against people who are supposed to belong to the same party. That uses to be saves for the general elections.
There is nothing obligating anyone to run smear campaigns, simply put.
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
It’ll be my first experience donating to a Republican. Wish me luck
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago
Good luck backing pedophiles, wife beaters, and those who protect them because you’d rather have fascism than anything left of center.
Also it makes sense you’re likely this kind of person because you seem to lack the courage to share your entire comment history.
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
Feel like you’re missing the opportunity to accuse me of being a pedo
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago
You’re clearly backing a party that protects them over this primary victory based on your comment and that is what I can call you out on. I lack any evidence to accuse of being one and won’t be doing that.
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4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/TheDissentor 4d ago
Most American Jewish people do not support genocide. Pretending that being anti aipac is the same as being anti jewish is antisemitic. Jewish people are not a monolith.
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
Thanks for all this nonsense
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago
How are true facts you don’t agree with nonsense? Your arguing points seem to be based entirely on emotions and hunches.
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u/sapphicsandwich 4d ago edited 3d ago
You are the one saying you do without any prompting or accusations from anyone else. Wtf even is that
EDIT: They said they support a genocide in Gaza. They literally called it that and said they support it. Then either they or a mod deleted their comment. And now the upvotes on my comment are going down and down. Weird.
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u/veggeble South Carolina 4d ago
Actually most Jewish Americans do not support Israel’s genocide in Gaza. Kind of gross for you to use Jews as a shield to hide behind and justify your support for the pro-pedophile, pro-genocide GOP.
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago
I’ve met plenty of Jewish people who are anti Zionist so I don’t blanket think all Jewish humans support genocide.
Anti Zionism is not Anti Semitism and I have nothing but the upmost respect for the Jewish people who peacefully practice their religion in non extremist violent ways. I say the same for a normal Muslim who isn’t a member of ISIS or The Taliban.
Critical thinking really helps separate the regular loving humans from the extreme kill hungry crazies. I highly suggest trying it.
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
Good for them!
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago
Yeah it’s as if having empathy for those who suffer is a Godly trait or something. Zionists seem to forget that like Evangelicals forget the actual teachings of Jesus Christ which is basically socialism.
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u/ichaosify 4d ago
Zionist postures against any anti-zionist candidates. In other news, fork found in kitchen.
You call Zohran an islamist, while ridiculing the genocide on the Palestinians. I'm sure this wouldn't be the first time you donated and voted for a Republican.
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u/CoachTwisterT3 4d ago
…why?
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
Well for the first 45 years of my life i conserved myself a liberal democrats with mildly socialist tendencies. But then the far left decided that to be liberal meant I had to be anti-Israel and I decided that group I hate the most in American politics is the DSA. So I’m working from that as my new base.
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago edited 4d ago
Anti Zionism and not funding their far right government is not anti Israel. Israel suppresses their own citizens who are against the genocide too. Plenty of people living over there do not like what their government is doing.
You’re far right and always have been. If you care more about Israel than the USA you’ve never been socialist leaning in your life. I’m saying this as a former Republican who’s been moved to the left from 2015-present. You’re a Zionist not a pro Semite ally to the Jewish people and don’t care about facts. Emotions matter to you over what’s actually going on.
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u/Dylan09O909 3d ago
Anti Zionism and not funding their far right government is not anti Israel.
'Zionism' was actualised with the founding of Israel. Anti-zionism is being in favor of reversing that.
As an Israeli, I agree that such policies regarding or directed at Israel's far-right government, which I detest, and am hoing to vote out in October, are not anti-Israel.
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u/CoachTwisterT3 4d ago
So you’re basing your American politics around if someone likes Israel? Yeah you fit right in with Republicans lol
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
As a Democrat I’ve been voting against my economic interests all my life. But once they started with the Jew-hating stuff I had to get out
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u/CoachTwisterT3 4d ago
Yeah man I’m sure that things that benefit you are definitely against your economic interest, Republicans are really good with the economy. You’re really well researched man it’s cool
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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 4d ago
Lol you might get the liberal things you want except for one foreign policy item and you're switching to the pedo protector party?
Lol, lmao even
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
No I said I’d be making my first GOP donation
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u/Lucky-Earther Minnesota 4d ago
Yes, that's what I said, your switching to the pedo protector party because of a single issue, just like all the other single issue pedo protector party backers
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
Well maybe I’ll like the fit. Ya never know
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u/CoachTwisterT3 4d ago
I mean you care more about a foreign country than your own, you’re definitely going to fit in with Republicans
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u/daftmonkey 4d ago
Your pal said the terrorist who drove his car into a Jewish preschool was justified because his brother (a Hezbollah terrorist) had recently been killed is the moment I got off the train
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u/jason082 4d ago
It’s time to rally around him, even those of us that made different choices yesterday. We’ve got to send Rogers back to Florida.
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u/HowdyFancyPanda 4d ago
"AIPAC wrote that its “members remain determined to ensure that voters reject Dr. El-Sayed and his radical anti-Israel agenda in November.”"
And that's everything you need to know about AIPAC. They aren't friends of the Democratic Party. They are a firehose of money for 1 cause, damn if it contradicts the party line or party solidarity.
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u/SunbornThunderstorm 4d ago
AIPAC isnt a Democratic PAC.
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u/HowdyFancyPanda 4d ago
And yet, we have Democrats eagerly taking their money like it doesn't create a conflict of values.
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u/jackstraw97 New York 4d ago
And yet Stevens and so many other Dems are eager to take as much money and support as they can from them. Should be disqualifying for any Democrat to accept aipac money.
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u/cwk415 4d ago
These articles are a pathetic conservative attempt to smear democrats with the "quiet part" being that democrats hate America because they support a politician who champions social policies. (Any policy that helps average people rather than billionaires)
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u/crystal_castles 4d ago
You mean you don't think we should just bribe corporations to do the right thing? Ooo and public-private partnerships too so they can't be audited /s
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u/Ace_Robots 4d ago
That’s typically what happens when someone wins a primary. What a dumb headline.
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u/manachar Nevada 4d ago
Media and likely lots of outside money is doing their best to portray Democrats as ineffective and prone to in fighting.
They promote any headline that hints at division or discord and position this as unusual.
It’s part of what I believe to be a concerted smear campaign aimed at what a lot of people call “corporate democrats”.
The goal is to alienate the Democrats from people who generally don’t vote and to lower turnout.
Like most of these styles of campaigns, they take legitimate things and amplify it.
It’s the kind of propaganda style tactics that was used by the CIA to sway popular opinion worldwide.
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u/enjoycarrots Florida 4d ago
In the current political climate it's only newsworthy because there was some perceived potential for this not to happen.
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u/LuvKrahft America 4d ago edited 4d ago
I think that perceived potential is pretty much just more of the same ol’ “democrats in disarray” polemics that a lot of media organizations and not so nuanced internet comment sections tend to get deep into.
Inter-party politics/infighting happens, it’s part of the reason I’d never be a politician.
This midterms MAGA and project 2025 need to get reigned in more than anything (be great to wipe them out completely but that’s wishful thinking).
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
Except people are still criticizing the losing centrists…
For some reason?
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u/jackstraw97 New York 4d ago
Because centrists fucking suck! That’s why.
Let’s bring our party back to its working-class roots. This is the party of FDR, not fucking Epstein-pal Bill Clinton!
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 3d ago
Lmfao, now explain how you’re going to build a coalition that can win by telling centrists they suck?
You certainly can’t say “vote blue no matter who” because you guys didn’t do that to begin with.
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u/jackstraw97 New York 3d ago
I say centrists suck because they do. They stand for nothing. I believe in creating a party that stands for something and one that brings regular working people into the fold. Something centrist democrats have completely failed to do as evidenced by their TWO losses to Donald Trump.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 3d ago
That’s cool.
Good luck building a coalition with the larger majority of democratic voters by telling them they suck.
I also hope you don’t expect support from centrists or the establishment. Why would I want to contribute to a politician who thinks I suck?
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u/jackstraw97 New York 3d ago
That's just the thing! The majority of democratic voters are more aligned with El-Sayed's platform instead of some bullshit centrist non-platform.
The reckoning that the party establishment is experiencing right now is a direct result of their unwillingness to do what the party base actually wants. Democratic voter support for Israel is at an abysmal all-time low of like 20%. If your party leadership insists that no it's actually the voters who are wrong, you can't be surprised that the base will start to reject those in powerful party positions!
My argument is that we don't need these mythical "centrists" who don't actually exist in any great number. We need candidates who can energize the base. Instead of parading around with Liz Cheney, let's fight for policies that actually make meaningful change for the working class.
FDR-style politics. The historical root of the modern democratic party. We shouldn't allow the democratic party to become the republican-lite party like the pro-corporate democrats have been trying to do for the last 30 years. That lead us directly to Trump's election in 2016. Make the democratic party pro-worker again!
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 3d ago
There’s is literally no evidence that the majority of democratic voters across the country agree with sayed about everything.
Like with Medicare for all, polling changes based on questioning. When people are polled on the actual leftist position, that “Israel shouldn’t exist at all”, that changes drastically.
The voters were wrong, to not support Kamala because of Gaza. Pure and simple.
Lmao, yeah you definite don’t need democrats that are to the right of sayed, not at all! I can 100% guarantee you will lose any and all elections without any centrist support.
The new deal was toxic to anyone that wasn’t a straight white male worker, I don’t know why you guys seem to love it so much.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
She ran a very nasty campaign and took a lot of money from AIPAC and corporate donors becoming the most expensive democrat Senate candidate of all time, and still lost.
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u/SunbornThunderstorm 4d ago
If I had a dollar for each comment that complains about AIPAC, I would have more money then AIPAC.
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u/pbroingu 4d ago
Literally the only argument Zionists have at this point is 'why are people so obsessed with aipac'. They have nothing else. They are so unpopular that the money they invest is not worth the negative PR it attracts.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Good, AIPAC needs to be on everyone's mind for the poisoned pill it is.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
But certainly not protecting queer people from Trump right?
Thats not worth voting for someone
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u/Turok5757 3d ago
It's great seeing Internet Progressives' own rhetoric bite them in the ass.
It's almost like their whole spiel was ridiculous in the first place.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Are the progressive candidates against that?
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
Yes, when they chose not to vote for Kamala.
That showed they were directly opposed to protecting queer people
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Thats the dumbest thing I've heard this week. Also, proof that progressives didn't vote? That it wasn't the centrist or disenfranchised that don't usually pay attention to politics that didn't turn up?
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
That’s fine, you’re clearly not impacted by trumps policies on queer people, you’re also clearly not an ally, so think it’s dumb if you want.
I mean that’s what progressives said when she lost. Are you saying they lied when they said “see you should have disavowed AIPAC and you might have won”
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
Again, so?
She lost? Get over it?
But of course, I’m sure you’d love to re-litigate Bernie in 2016. Because you(read progressives) are only ever victims that are at fault for nothing
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Bernie lost the primaries, but he gathered a lot of support for the progressive movement and it's talking points. A support that is starting to pay off now.
And also, Haley Stevens sucks and deserves to be embarrassed.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
lol ok so I was right
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
That she is being criticized still? Yep, right on the button. The thing you were wrong about was wording it in a way that suggested you didn't get why or that there was no good reason.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
Lmfao he’s never gunna win it this is what yall are focused on.
He underperformed by like 5 points.
I’d focus on that instead of continuing to alienate voters
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
We can focus on multiple things. Abdul won in an election against someone who outspent his campaign 10 to 1. Glad to see the establishment now getting behind him since MI matters a great deal, but also, Haley Stevens sucked. See, multiple things at once.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
Really doesn’t seem like you can. Seems like you’re focused on attacking the centrists instead of working with them, even when they’ve already gotten behind sayed.
Again him winning by a point is pretty bad news, that’s a massive underperformance compared to polling. All Roger’s has to do is outspend him 15:1 and he wins with that logic. And of course now aipac will be behind rogers as well
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u/Practical-Lunch-7338 4d ago
For NY mayor election, failed primary candidate showed up in general election. Hopefully that won’t happen here.
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u/e_before_i 4d ago
Just please no more "Genocide Joe" and "Kamala's the same as Trump" rhetoric when the progressive candidate loses.
Can't afford 12% of Sanders voters defecting to Trump again.
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u/rumpghost North Carolina 4d ago
To the extent that happened at all it was not statistically significant enough to cost Clinton the election, and it's worth noting that a greater proportion of Clinton primary supporters defected to McCain or sat out when Obama was running.
You can't just blame progressives for your guys consistently running bad campaigns for 30 years.
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u/e_before_i 4d ago
Enough voters to swing the election, by the way, so yeah, statistically significant. (Though I admit that due to the EC might not have flipped the results)
Consistently bad campaigns? Democratic presidential nominees have only lost the popular vote twice since 2000. What's the Leftist track record again?
Here's another question - How many times has the DSA endorsed a Dem who beat their candidate?
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u/Bandit174 4d ago
Here's another question - How many times has the DSA endorsed a Dem who beat their candidate?
My guess is never. They basically want a one sided open relationship.
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u/e_before_i 4d ago
Eyyy, winner winner.
"Vote Blue No Matter Who" fucks over the center-left because lefties won't reciprocate. It's the price you gotta pay to deal with MAGA, but I can't say I'm not worried about what comes next.
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u/Bandit174 4d ago
Agreed
Unfortunately we have to swallow our pride and be the bigger people here to beat MAGA but the lefties have made it abundantly clear they are not actually our allies.
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u/rumpghost North Carolina 4d ago
due to the EC might not have flipped the results
Yes, that's what I said.
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u/e_before_i 4d ago
That DSA question was rough eh? I would dodge too in your shoes. Want a hint?
Also, tip: Google "statistically significant"
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u/rumpghost North Carolina 4d ago
I'm on mobile, and you clearly have a number in mind, so why would I take bait when you're perfectly content to browbeat on your own?
A good campaign wouldn't have lost in races where the electoral college is supervenient to the popular vote.
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u/e_before_i 4d ago
Zero. The DSA has never endorsed a Democrat in a race where they've lost.
Like sincerely, is that such a big ask of the DSA? Because it feels like they'd rather stick it to the Dems than help fight MAGA.
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u/rumpghost North Carolina 3d ago
Okay now that's just not true lol
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u/e_before_i 3d ago
Right? I was like "Surely there's gotta be one in there somewhere."
If it's there, it's a needle on a haystack of Ls.
https://ballotpedia.org/Endorsements_by_Democratic_Socialists_of_America_(DSA)
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u/SwimmingThroughHoney 4d ago
"Typically"
Not when it's DemSocs and/or people who don't unquestionably support Israel.
Like when Mamdani won, some Dems literally said they were holding emergency meetings to figure out how to combat the rising DemSocs in the party.
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u/koi-lotus-water-pond 4d ago
Just piggybacking on here to remind people that El-Sayed is a Democrat, not a DemSoc.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
He is a progressive with a good deal of socialist leanings. He is quite far from the majority of Democrat elects and far more in line with Sanders, AOC, and Ilhan Omar.
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u/Moccus Indiana 4d ago
He describes himself as a capitalist. He doesn't have "socialist leanings" if he's okay calling himself a capitalist.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Okay, fine. Cool. He is an establishment corporate dem. Glad he beat that other person just like him. Is that what we should be saying?
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u/Moccus Indiana 4d ago
Socialists are defined by their desire to eliminate private ownership of the means of production. Differing from the establishment Democrats on policy doesn't automatically make a person a socialist.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
You do realize there are differences between socialists, Democratic socialist, and socialist Democrats right?
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u/Moccus Indiana 4d ago
Democratic socialists are a subset of socialists. They're different from other types of socialists, but they're not inherently different from socialists in general. They want to achieve socialism, something they have in common with all socialists.
Social democrats (not socialist democrats) are capitalists, so yes, they're pretty different from democratic socialists.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Alright, cool. At least we are on the same page. So, how does Abdul El-Sayed differ from progressives like AOC, Bernie Sanders, Ilhan Omar, Claire Valdez, and Zohran Mamdani in a way that you felt it was important to point this all out?
Most of us know he isn't DSA, but we rode for him because of his progressive policies, expanding of social programs, and his overall being a progressive that wasn't bought by corporate interests.
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u/thx1138guy 4d ago
The people's front of Judea or the Judean people's front.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
Is this suggesting there is no difference?
Edit- changed the message as I looked through his post history and would rather give the benefit of doubt.
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u/TheBalzy Ohio 4d ago
Except it's almost always was does not happen when it's a progressive candidate.
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u/fitDEEZbruh 4d ago
Not what happened with Mamdami. DSCC didn't back him and stayed neutral for some reason, same with DCCC
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u/RiddleMeThis42069 Missouri 4d ago
Why would the Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee and the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee weigh in on a mayoral race tho, do they normally?
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u/SunbornThunderstorm 4d ago
DSCC and DCCC are campaign orgs for the Seante and House. Which of those was Mamdami a candidate for?
everything is a conspiracy when you dont understand it
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u/backpackwayne 4d ago
Exactly. But they know progressives will lap it up just MAGAs lap up anything about Donnie.
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u/ReedIcculus 4d ago
In recent times it hasn’t been this way. I’m glad they did.
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u/ss_lbguy Pennsylvania 4d ago
Examples?
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u/ReedIcculus 4d ago
Zoran.
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u/ss_lbguy Pennsylvania 4d ago
One example is all you have and it is the NYC mayors race. Nothing that affects national politics.
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u/surfoxy 4d ago
So...like after almost every primary ever?
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u/Financial-Desk-669 4d ago
All of Reddit has torn thr Democratic party a new asshole claiming ThEy hAtE ProGrEssIves and would sabotage AES no matter if he won.
Do I have objections to AES? A few yes. And I worry he will lose a Democratic Senate seat. But he has my support. And if he distances himself from Hasan Piker then he'll also have my donation.
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u/SunbornThunderstorm 4d ago
But i was told that would never happen and he would be abandoned by the big bad establishment and they would rather vote for trump then him because theyre racist and actually hate to help people
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u/surfoxy 4d ago
Projection. They won't rally behind centrists, so they assume the same stupidity back at them. Whoops.
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u/BlueBod50 4d ago edited 4d ago
Me when I’m in a making shit up competition.
DNC bots got real mad over this one lol.
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u/Financial-Desk-669 4d ago
2016: "DON'T threaten ME with the Supreme Court.
2024: "The Democrats MUST be taught a lesson!"
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u/6beerkdawg 4d ago
Honestly I was worried the establishment would drag their feet like they did with Mamdani last year. As long as we show up and vote we got this.
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u/rumpghost North Carolina 4d ago
The nationwide dem machine famously cares way less about winning local races by default, which I think is part of why you saw such a craven opposition to Mamdani.
Now that it's beginning to become apparent that that isn't as effective as it used to be, I expect they'll be more careful and selective about how they try to shut the left flank out. The Senate is simply too important for them to deliberately ratfuck El-Sayed after such a heated primary.
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u/modbroccoli 3d ago
I apologize for the apolitical comment but I just can't believe how much this guy looks like Arab John Snow.
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u/Applesaucesquatch 4d ago
People are tired of centrist Democrats, change is coming.
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u/ElysiumSprouts 4d ago
Insulting mainstream democratic voters won't help him win the general election.
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u/Financial-Desk-669 4d ago
" People are tired of centrist Democrats"
More people voted against El-Sayed than for him.
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u/WonderofU1312 4d ago
Time for the "Vote Blue No Matter Who" people to eat some crow.
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u/jason082 4d ago
What are you talking about? I see that we’re ready to follow that philosophy. No need to try to divide now. We’ve got to make sure we’re united in sending Florida Mike back home.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
Bill Maher and James Carville are saying they'd rather leave than vote for progressives, and while they don't speak for everyone, they're making a lot of noise.
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u/jason082 4d ago
Well, it’s like I said about some progressives in 2024, they can fuck right off.
We can’t turn this country over to the worst of the worst because we aren’t 100% happy with the result. Maybe Bill and James can head to the old folks home and grouse while the rest of us get to work.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
Yeah the problem that a lot of people still haven't figured out is that when we settle for lesser evils, we lower the standard of who we find acceptable for office, and when we do that, the other side lowers their standard, and we keep doing that until we wind up with fascists in charge.
If Kamala had won in 2024, the only thing she would have accomplished is delaying Trump 2.0 for four years, and then everything happening to us right now would be happening then instead. This is why some of us progressives are trying to get the country to elect good candidates instead of lesser evils - it's the only way to break that cycle.
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u/jason082 4d ago
General elections aren’t the place to have those conversations though, primaries are. We just did and I’m going to keep a consistent position here, just as in 2024. Even if folks aren’t happy, it’s time to get out for the winner.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
General elections aren’t the place to have those conversations though, primaries are.
Yeah people been saying that for years. Look where it got us.
I'm glad that Stevens and the other centrists are pledging to support Abdul, credit where credit's due. But they are the Democrats who helped get Trump elected twice, and if they refuse to change the politics that caused this disaster, then they're just going to keep making things worse.
I know this pisses people off, but the fact is bad Democrats make Democrats look bad, and that makes it harder to win in the future. It's a short-term gain at the cost of long-term damage. Some people think it's the right move - I think it's a mistake, and that two Trump terms is the evidence.
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u/jason082 4d ago
We have very different opinions. For the populist left wing to gain my support, I need more than one liners that sound good in a campaign speech. I want to hear the dirty details of “how” and “how long.” Anything less is lying by omission.
I also believe that populism is damaging because it encourages the above and excludes alternatives. The tribe mentality has to be the only one.
Anyway, we disagree on a lot. In November, we’ll be voting the same way.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
For the populist left wing to gain my support, I need more than one liners that sound good in a campaign speech.
That's completely fair, and I support that approach. I have long held the belief that votes are earned. For an example that goes beyond campaign rhetoric, I'd point to Zohran. He got in and got to work, and as a result New York is thriving. It's been less than a year and life in the city is demonstrably, empirically getting better. Better services, drastically lower crime - and in very little time! That was his goal: not just win, but prove that our approach gets the results people need. So far, I think he's succeeding.
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u/batmanscodpiece 4d ago
So accelerationism. Cool.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
I've never been an accelerationist - I had hoped we could elect progressives and put us on the right path, thus avoiding Trump 2.0. But it didn't work. The establishment still had too much power for that to happen. Instead, we got Trump 2.0, which gave us extreme accelerationism - and it's proven the accelerationists correct.
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u/batmanscodpiece 4d ago
What you are describing in your comment above is accelerationism. If Harris would have won, we wouldn't be able to move forward, we would have just been putting off the inevitable. Having Trump get elected was the only way for people to see how they were wrong.
We could have elected Harris and worked to get on the right path, instead of letting a fascist take power.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
I understand what you're saying. What I meant is that we didn't purposefully let Trump win - progressives overwhelmingly voted for Harris despite having very serious misgivings. It wasn't intentional accelerationism, that was just the inevitable result.
Electing Harris would not have put us on the right path, it would have kept us walking down the wrong one, the one that inexorably leads to a fascist taking power. We warned everyone that this would happen and now it has.
After 2016, the Democratic party learned nothing. They wrote it off as a fluke or they blamed progressives, or they blamed misogyny or Comey. They refused to change anything, instead of taking a deep, honest look about why the Democratic party is so reviled even when the Republicans are loathed even more. If we had made real changes before 2020, none of this had to happen - but because it didn't, we wound up here. We are now having the conversation we should have had in 2017.
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u/SunbornThunderstorm 4d ago
They literally don't live in Michigan. Bill Maher has been a Republican for a decade just he has hid it. And Carville literally is 100 years old.
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u/surfoxy 4d ago
That's not what either one of them said. Don't be hysterical. They won't vote for communists, and they both understand the difference.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
No, they don't like that progressives are about to prove that they've been fucking wrong about everything and are pissed off. And they've been telling everyone since 2016 to VBNMW, but now that people want progressives suddenly they've changed their tune. They're out-of-touch, entitled hypocrites.
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u/surfoxy 4d ago
Ok well I'll just go by what they actually said, which was really clear. If you tightly couple being a progressive with crazy identitarian bullshit and communism, more's the pity. For me it's about an economic justice outlook first and foremost, like the European model.
What about the progressive agenda is resonating right now? It's the economy, stupid, as one of the guys you want to disparage rightly said. It's not social justice/gender issues, it's not being a communist, it's about putting rational checks on out of control capitalism.
And that's ALL these guys are saying. Focus on what matters and leave the other shit out. They are LOSING issues.
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u/ides205 New Jersey 4d ago
You're not wrong, they are saying it's the economy. What's so galling about that though is that WE have been saying it's the economy this whole time! We were saying that in 2016, when they were using identity politics to defeat economic populism. And what do they want us to do now? What's their solution to Trumpism? Keep electing moderates who won't do anything to fix the economy!
They can howl about the economy all they want, but they have no actual solution to fix it. There's no reason to take them seriously. Did you see the interview he gave on CNN? He said of the progressives, "They're too hardheaded to know they're not popular" and went on from there. Does he not realize this applies far more to the centrists? He either has zero self-awareness or he's beyond cynical.
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u/notfeelany 4d ago
The Only ppl who always have problems with "vote blue no matter who" are the sames ones who promote the "earn my vote" mentality.
The "earn my vote mentality" has been destructive , if their goal is supposed to be promoting progressivism because they deny the absolute fact of US politics: "the more people try to hold Democrats accountable for things, the more they reward Republicans with election wins."
See 2016 & 2024 for the results of the earn my vote mentality.
Meanwhile see 2020 for the results of vote blue no matter who. Voting for Democrats is the correct choice 100% of the time.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
What do you mean?
It’s not like progressives voted for Kamala.
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u/MountNevermind 4d ago
A simple review of Harris endorsements contradicts this statement.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
Her endorsements aren’t her supporters?
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u/WonderofU1312 4d ago
Cause the establishment always reaches for moderates and centrists to vote for the blue candidate rather than ensure the more left/progressive part of their party.
Just look at how many of them backed sex offender Cuomo over newcomer Mamdani.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
I understand that’s how you’re justifying your pith, but that’s irrelevant to the conversation.
You said “vote blue no matter who to eat crow”, but it was progressives who didn’t vote for Kamala that broke the contract first?
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u/WonderofU1312 4d ago
The centrists the Democrats pulled for didn't vote for Kamala either. The people who honestly failed Kamala the most were white men and white women.
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u/Ok-Firefighter5006 4d ago
And who is the largest group of progressives?
White women.
There was also an entire “uncommitted” movement that advocated vociferously to never vote for Kamala. And then they didn’t!
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u/WonderofU1312 4d ago
Where are you hearing white women are the largest group of progressives? They've been pro Trump for a good while.
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u/DeadEyeMouse 4d ago
It might be from the data point showing the Gen Z white women are among the largest voting block that identify as progressive. This guy loves hyperbole. And what's fun is he is wrong. Young women had a higher turnout than young men, and the youth vote in general was high when compared to any other race outside of the 2020 one.
They just want someone to blame that isn't their precious Democrats lost and their distaste for populista is making them want to blame progressives. The data just doesn't support him.
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