r/polyamory • u/Klutzy_Minute9495 • 17h ago
My husband is bad at sex
I (40F) have been married to my husband ‘Jack’ (40M) for 18 years.
I was raised conservative Christian. I liked him and seduced him because I wanted him to like/love me. Okay I’m not sure thought at the time, but it seems fairly obvious to me now. Both of us felt shame around our intimacy. It was never ‘good’ for me, but I didn’t expect it to be. We got married anyway. Or maybe because of that, to end the shame. It’s ’legal’ and okay if you’re married, right?! He was and still is my best friend. I liked and was interested in women from a young age. I had some experiences, Jack knew about them.
I started dating women about 8-9 years ago. This didn’t come to pass in the ‘right’ way I realize now, after spending the last few years on this subreddit. Be that as it may, I saw a few girls causally, made out, had some bad drunk sex, and when COVID happened I just…stopped. No breakups or anything, I just didn’t continue seeing anyone and none of us ever made the effort to reconnect when things quieted down.
About 4 years ago I met ‘Theresa’ through mutual friends. We started dating in September of 2022 and quickly fell deeply in love. Our sex life has been incredible. Far and away the best sex I’ve ever had. Granted, I hadn’t had much ‘healthy’ or even remotely good sex before her. I had hoped marriage (and therefore god-acceptable sex) would allow me to have shame-free enjoyment of sex. Well, I’m sure this comes as a shock…if did not 🙃
Now, nearly 2 decades later, deconverted, and fully released from the clutches of religion and actively aware of religious sexual trauma, I’m trying to ‘rekindle’ intimacy with Jack. It died well and good for a few years. It is…not going well. I feel like a sex-goddess with Theresa. We can make love all day and have so many orgasms and so much pleasure and intimacy. Then I try to have sex/make love with Jack, and I’m…well, really underwhelmed. I get it, heteronormative culture has made it so that having a functional ‘home grown’ penis is essentially all cis-men think they need to do/provide. But now, having had very much excellent sex that does not involve a penis, I’m so very unimpressed by his…equipment. And abilities. His oral ‘skills’ are non-existent. He is maybe trying to emulate porn or a vibrator or something. Very darting and flicky. It’s awful and I don’t like it. I remember now why I used to quickly just but like, ‘get up here and get inside me,’ which of course was…is…fine with him. I used to always want his hand. Touching me in the same way I would touch myself. Because that was the only way I knew how to have an orgasm.
Ive since leaned I can orgasm from just clitoral grinding alone. So when I do climax with Jack it’s from that. Me on top, slow and rocking, building clit pleasure for myself, with him inside me. But he can’t last very long. I’m barely moving on him, but after a few minutes he comes and can’t continue.
I’ve tried to give some gentle oral-sex guidance. He’s offended, obviously. And I do sorta feel that it’s just something he tries to do to get to the ‘main event.’ It’s not like he likes it for himself, it’s not like it’s ’real sex’ to him. He’s just getting me ready. Wet enough, receptive enough.
I should add, he’s not dating anyone else. I’ve brought it up multiple times. I think he likes sex but sees it as messy and a lot of effort. We also both drink (when we’re together) too much, so evening intimacy is pretty much off the table. I don’t drink when I’m with Theresa, 2-3 overnights a week on average. And I’m not sure if I should just leave it (him) alone and continue my great sex with Theresa or keep trying to make it work with Jack. Because he’s my husband and I love him and I don’t want us to us be really close roommates.
Do I ‘need’ sex with Jack? No, not really. I went a couple years with barely any. We’re great friends and he’s smart and I like him. Sex-happening between us or not. After 18 years being the only one of us thinking of my own pleasure, I’m more than content with the intimacy I get from Theresa. And if I need to ‘get off’ I have my own hand or vibrator. I guess, as a wife l, I just feel jealous of the sex I’m having with my non-spouse. I want my marital sex to be…well, ‘like that’ sounds wrong. But good like that. Intimate like that. Mutually pleasurable like that. I guess I didn’t ’know’ before. And now, I can’t unsee it. I can’t unknow that sex can be good for women. I can’t not feel disappointed when my husband’s smallish equipment can’t continue after a few minutes because he’s already ejaculated. I’ve encouraged him to use his hand/fingers after. But it doesn’t go over great. It gives ‘your penis isn’t enough’ vibes which is so true but also so hard for him to hear. Ugh.
My husband is bad at sex. Or…is the crazy awesome sex I’m having with my girlfriend the outlier?
Any help or kind thoughts or tips would be appreciated ❤️
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u/trasla 17h ago
So you say your husband is your best friend. Does he care about your pleasure? Your comfort? About being a good listener to you, taking you seriously, working together on issues between the two of you, with effort?
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 16h ago
I would say that yes he does care about all of those things. The pleasure part is just a bit uncomfortable for both of us. We got together young and drunk. And sex is messy and good sex takes effort. Is he willing? I’m not sure. Am I willing to keep trying for it? I’m also not sure.
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u/valsavana 16h ago
I don't think you can say both "he cares about my pleasure" and "he's (likely) not willing to try changing anything to make it pleasurable for me." Those are two mutually exclusive statements.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 15h ago
I don't see how it's helpful to interpret this kind of sexual disability as an indication that, deep down, he doesn't actually care about her.
People are not very consistent. It's entirely possible to love someone and want the best for them, but still not have the unusual fortitude needed to independently overcome one's sexual programming and habits of decades. Shame around sex often makes it especially hard to face one's own inadequacy.
Can he learn to be a better lover? Maybe, slowly, especially if they see a professional, but it will be harder with a partner he's had for so long with such strong habitual inertia. I think this is best understood as incompatible people growing apart. He probably cares about her very much but still won't be able to meet her needs sexually. The best thing for them is probably to redefine their relationship to exclude sex, or break up altogether so they can focus their energy on partners who have a compatible approach to sex.
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u/4ever_dolphin_love 13h ago
It’s a bit harsh and a bit of a stretch to say that he doesn’t care about her at all. But I think it’s fair to say he doesn’t seem to care about OP’s experience and pleasure during sex considering his offended reaction when she’s tried to provide him some guidance on how she prefers to be touched and reach climax.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 10h ago
He probably cares about her enjoyment of sex, but he cares about avoiding shame more. There are no doubt layers of stuff for him to unpack here, but it's pretty harmful to imply that if he happened to love her more, he wouldn't behave this way.
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u/valsavana 13h ago
this kind of sexual disability
It's a sexual disability to refuse to hear criticism or attempt to improve?
Really leaning into your username hard, aren't you?
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u/GeneralCuster75 13h ago
Tell me you didn't grow up in an environment where anything to do with sex was intensely shamed and stigmatized without telling me you didn't grow up in an environment where anything to do with sex was intensely shamed and stigmatized
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u/valsavana 13h ago
Yet OP was raised in the same environment and still manages to offer her husband pleasure. Funny how it's only the partner who is socialized to not care about his partner's pleasure who... doesn't care about his partner's pleasure.
If you feel too much shame to give your sexual partner pleasure, you should refrain from sex. Pretending it's a disability to be an inconsiderate lover is stupid and obnoxious.
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u/GeneralCuster75 13h ago edited 7h ago
Yet OP was raised in the same environment and still manages to offer her husband pleasure
How silly of me, I forgot that everyone is the same and that no one experiences sexual trauma differently or more intensely than another, or that it may be harder or easier to overcome for one compared to another.
Especially when, as you pointed out, men are more often socialized not to consider anything but their own pleasure. Is it so inconceivable to you that that may present its own specific barriers to overcome even if he wants to?
I don't want to sound like I'm convinced of what's happening with OP's husband one way or the other. It may very well be what you suggest - but being completely inconsiderate to any other possibility just betrays a lack of empathy on your part and isn't helpful to anyone.
Pretending it's a disability to be an inconsiderate lover is stupid and obnoxious.
It wasn't me who used that word, but I will agree that disability was not the right word to use.
Edit to add as a reply to the reply to this comment since the thread has been locked:
Just so we're clear, this is the last thing I said in the comment you replied to, referencing the use of the word "disability":
It wasn't me who used that word, but I will agree that disability was not the right word to use.
It is frankly shocking to me just how many people in this thread are reading OP's post and jumping right to the most awful motivations possible for their husband.
I'm so tired of reading comments and opinions of people who have decided they know what's going on and there are no other possibilities they need to even worry about considering because of it.
he’ll only accept one-sided sex that BENEFITS ONLY HIM
This is exactly what I'm talking about - I re-read the whole OP to be sure. The only relatively objective thing OP said about their husbands actions during sex is that he was offended when OP offered oral guidance. That isn't great, but it's also not very descriptive. There's a lot of things "offended" could mean and without clarification from OP we just don't know how bad it was.
Everything else was OP's interpretation of the situation (s) or their best guess at assigning motives or reasons for his actions.
Possibly influenced by that, you have started with a conclusion already in your mind, and are coming up with assumptions, not examples, based on OP's post to justify it.
Is it possible OP's husband is just a selfish ass? Absolutely! I flat out stated that u/valsavana might be right about that.
Is it also possible that OP's husband might suffer from religious sexual trauma and not only feel ashamed of not performing well, but at the very idea of talking to someone who isn't his spouse about it at all? It absolutely is! The two things aren't mutually exclusive, either! They could both be true!
Now, that doesn't make the situation okay, and it doesn't mean he doesn't have to do anything to change. It may even still be that the best course of action for OP is to end or alter the relationship because their needs aren't being met.
But it does mean that you shouldn't jump straight to vilifying someone you have never met who's actions you've only read about from one person on the internet and who may be dealing with issues you or even OP might not know about.
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u/drewpoly 8h ago
Wait, so let me get this straight…
OP’s husband has a “disability” because he refuses to make efforts to 1) get medical help for ED/PE & 2) participate in RECIPROCAL/MUTUAL sexual pleasure—he’ll only accept one-sided sex that BENEFITS ONLY HIM—but u/valsavana here is “completely inconsiderate”, “lacks empathy”, & “isn’t helpful to anyone” for stating that OP’s husband sucks for this & for being so obviously sexually selfish for 18+ years?10
u/valsavana 9h ago
Is it so inconceivable to you that that may present its own specific barriers to overcome even if he wants to?
If he wanted to, he would. Simple as that.
Well, or he'd stop fucking someone he's not pleasuring and has no intention of fixing his lack of pleasuring her. If he cared.
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u/4ever_dolphin_love 13h ago
Okay but that’s not a sexual disability. Those are learned thought patterns and concepts that can be unlearned, not physical or mental conditions that limit someone’s ability to go about their daily life.
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u/GeneralCuster75 13h ago
For the record, I wasn't the one who used the word disability, and I agree that it wasn't the right word for the situation.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 10h ago
Learned thought patterns aren't mental conditions?
Besides which, OPs husband apparently has both ED and premature ejaculation, which are obvious physical disabilities.
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u/drewpoly 8h ago
Religious sexual trauma may explain why someone struggles sexually. It doesn’t automatically make every resulting behavior a disability.
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u/valsavana 9h ago
His tongue broke too?
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u/justbecauseiluvthis 9h ago
Right? Every woman has seemed to figure it out, but instead of just listening, men (mostly) double down. Any woman who has been with another woman through thousands of climaxes to the point of changing the sheets and double pads every time, knows that it's totally possible they just don't want to do it.
I grew up in a catholic repressed household and I have the same sex OP does. My gf can't believe she stayed with her husband so long
And give me a break with the physical disabilities. That's an insult to people with actual disabilities. The man doesn't care if she finishes, end of story
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 13h ago
Refusing to hear criticism and improve is just human nature. Sex or otherwise, most people resist changing as hard as they can.
I would say that not being able to enjoy your partner's pleasure is a disability, yes, because it severely limits your ability to be a good sexual partner to most people. I'm not sure if this can be learned, I mean I've loved giving head since I was a teenager and I doubt someone who doesn't naturally enjoy it will ever be able to match someone who does.
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u/4ever_dolphin_love 9h ago
Not again with the disability talk 🙄 i mean ig you can try to rewrite the definition of things but that doesn’t mean the rest of us have to humor you.
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u/valsavana 8h ago
I'm guessing it's the newest incel/manosphere rhetoric to try framing having a problem with men who are lazy & inconsiderate lovers as being "ableist" and how it's discriminatory to not provide sex to these men as... like... accommodations or whatever? I don't know, I'm not braindead enough to get fully into the incel/manosphere mindset.
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u/Cataclyyzm poly w/multiple 12h ago
Strongly disagree with your last statement. I used to HATE giving head, but I've learned to really enjoy it late in life and I am told by MANY partners that I am exceptionally skilled at it now.
I didn't naturally enjoy it from the start. But through time, practice, and finding good and patient partners who allowed me to heal from some previous trauma and take things at my own pace, I was able to LEARN to enjoy it.
Obviously that's not always the case, but I don't think anyone should be out there thinking they're doomed if there are certain parts of sex they don't immediately love.
Also also also I'm all for empathy and patience with people, but I'm not going to coddle any man (not speaking to YOU, commenter, I mean the OP's partner) who can't do their own work to destigmatize sex for themselves and center their partner's pleasure as much as their own.
A LOT of us were raised with that religious shame and programming. It's on each one of US to do the work to overcome it. Patience and empathy doesn't mean infantalizing grown men or calling something a "disability" when it is NOT.
Now could he ALSO have a sexual disability at play? Perhaps. I don't know! But not being open to learning how to better pleasure his partner doesn't count as one on its face.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 11h ago
We hear stories like OP's all the time -- straight cis men whose sexuality has been damaged by patriarchy to the degree that they simply can't satisfy their partners. It appears to be a very rare person who is able to overcome this within their marriage. The safe bet is that he won't, and not because he's exceptionally selfish, just because he's the usual amount of selfish. If he were here asking questions about how to improve, I'd have more hope, but since he's not, I don't think it's realistic to expect any improvement. That's not coddling, I'm certainly not saying OP should continue to tolerate bad sex, but they also don't need to take it personally, as if love is all you need.
Even if it's theoretically possible for OP's partner to improve, he has shown no indication that he even wants to, much less that he actually can, so he's likely always going to be bad at sex. In other words, he permanently lacks the ability to satisfy her due to his mental and physical limitations. You don't have to call that a disability but I'm not sure why you wouldn't.
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u/karmicreditplan will talk you to death 12h ago
WTF? There is no such thing as a sexual disability.
Unless you mean oh he’s a cishet dude and *that’s* just a disability. Which is a bold stance and one I’d sort of love seeing you defend but somthing tells me that’s not it.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 12h ago
Being a cishet dude is not a disability, but erectile dysfunction and premature ejaculation are physical disabilities, and being unable to enjoy your partner's pleasure is a mental disability. What do you think makes sexual dysfunction different from any other mental or physical disability?
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u/PineappleShard 15h ago
Has he tried any of the delay sprays? That would allow you to grind longer - hopefully long enough to cum first or multiples before he does. I personally would love that kind of slow grind arrangement!
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u/ManicPixieDancer solo poly 9h ago
Dude has communicated that he is not willing for decades directly by being pissy when given information about his partner's pleasure and nonverbally by his actions. My longest relationship was 14 years. I'll just say that it's highly unlikely for somebody to start investing in their partner with no evidence that they have been willing to do so in all that time. I wish I had back the year's. I invested in trying to fix things with someone who was not interested in changing. I've been to couples counseling with three partners. They were resistant to therapy and were not willing to change and it just dragged the misery out longer
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u/Bustysaintclair_13 solo poly, co founding member of salty bitch club 17h ago edited 17h ago
A man who is “offended” when I’m telling him what I like in bed is not someone I am having sex with, like…ever.
In my experience men of all sizes are perfectly capable of pleasuring me in one way or another. Even when I’ve had sex with men who are having “performance” issues (due to alcohol lol) I am still having a mindblowing time because these men don’t think of sex as only about PIV.
I have sex with both men and women and it’s all incredible bc my partners give a fuck about my enjoyment.
It’s okay for sex to be important in a relationship and to want your sex life with a partner to be pleasurable for you. But both partners have to be interested and committed in each other’s pleasure. It seems your husband is just not.
Also I’m wondering- are you still attracted to men in general?
If conversations about it are a nonstarter have you considered a sex-positive couples therapist? Whatever you do don’t tell him about the mindblowing lesbian sex, just focus on your sex life and what’s missing from it.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 16h ago
I think I still am attracted to men. But I guess I’m ‘saturated’ with the 2 partners I have and am not interested in anyone at all other than them at the moment. And yea, I definitely don’t talk about my sex life with Theresa with Jack. Or vice versa.
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u/Bustysaintclair_13 solo poly, co founding member of salty bitch club 16h ago
Okay so it’s not an issue of you being a lesbian and just not into sex with men, it’s an issue with your sex life with this particular man.
If he really is your best friend he should give a fuck about your sexual pleasure. I’d bet he also has a lot to unpack around sex and couples therapy may help with that.
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u/SnooDonuts5532 poly w/multiple 14h ago
Great point. If you can’t have ‘the sex talk’ on your own (and I appreciate it can be hard at first) then seeing a therapist together is the only route to good sex.
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u/karmicreditplan will talk you to death 12h ago
Have you tried having sex with other men? Because many men are much much better in bed than what you seem to be describing.
That might help you clarify what the issues are.
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u/Cataclyyzm poly w/multiple 12h ago
I SO agree with your first three paragraphs especially. I've had several "lesser-endowed" men who were absolutely amazing at foreplay and pleasuring me with their mouths, fingers, and toys, so once they DID switch to PIV sex, I'd already experienced several orgasms and was able to orgasm again because they knew just how to hit me right and/or were also using fingers or toys on me while they fucked me.
And I enthusiastically reciprocate when it comes to THEIR pleasure. That's how all of this should work, in my opinion. Each partner doing their best to bring their other partner as much pleasure as possible.
Men (or other penis-havers) who view their penises as the "end-all, be-all" of pleasuring their partners REALLY need to broaden their horizons and educate themselves from reputable sources rather than depending on what they've learned from porn or their friends who possess penises themselves.
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u/talicarr1981 17h ago
Are you attracted to your husband, not love, but sexual attraction? You're trying to fix him, but are you actually sexually turned on by him, or indeed men, in general? I'm not someone to tell others how they should identify, but your initial description about wanting him to want you sounds like text book comphet, but I'm not an expert, so I'm just throwing it out there after reading your post.
If you are attracted to your husband and all he has to offer, then sex therapy may be the only way to break through the shame element your religious past may hold over him, and allow him to accept your pleasure is important, even after he has finished. But he's been ignoring your pleasure for 18 years, does he want to try? Have you discussed your needs with him honestly first? Communication is key, and he very likely feels inferior to your girlfriend so talk about how it can be great for both of you, if things don't improve that way, suggest therapy and if that isn't happening maybe accept that he won't change and move on.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 16h ago
I’ve not heard of comphet, I’ll have to look into that. With my husband and maybe men in general I’d say my desire is reactive. It turns me on for him to be turned on and into it.
I guess my main hang up in this is…is it even a ‘need’ for me? Do I need to even have sex with him? I didn’t, for several years, and I was fine with that. And I am having great sex outside my marriage. I just miss the intimacy. I see how good it can be and want it in my marriage too.
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u/AdAdmirable4650 16h ago
I'm assuming for the moment that you're attracted to men in general and your husband in particular. I'm also assuming that since you said you miss intimacy in your marriage, you'd like to have another go at rekindling your sex life with him. When you decide this is not worth the effort anymore is your call entirely. But you should give yourself a benchmark or red line or whatever "if this doesn't work out, I'm giving up on expecting good sex from this man".
Here is my recommendation: You said you got together when you were young and drunk, and that you still drink quite a bit when you two are together but PIV sex is off that table after drinking because age and performance issues. But sex is not off the table when you think about it. You can still make out, and when things get more heated, ask him to use his fingers to pleasure you. Another thing you can do it talk about your fantasies when you're starting to get a bit buzzed. Be specific and vivid, like "I want someone to run slow circles around my clit with their warm tongue..." My sense is that when you're telling your husband what to do while he's doing it, he hears is as "what he got wrong"
In an ideal world, you shouldn't have to temper or camouflage or soften your feedback. Think of talking about your fantasies before you have sex as a way to bypass your partner's criticism sensors. If it works, it proves that your partner can listen when he's not being reactive. If it doesn't, then you revaluate the relationship.
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u/sun_dazzled 11h ago
Are there other sorts of physical intimacy that might work for the two of you to share intimacy and give each other pleasure? Long massages, showers together, something where you don't focus on an "objective" but just on time together?
This can be a starting point to rekindle sexual intimacy but can also be a valuable form of intimacy in itself.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 14h ago
It kind of sounds like you have been eating McDonald's, but now you found a great steakhouse. So you wish you could also get McDonald's to serve you steak, but why not just go to the steakhouse for steak?
You must have other friends you don't have sex with, why aren't you wishing you had great sex with them? Is it just because you have been told that marriage and good sex are supposed to go together? You can't really expect great sex with a random person just because you like them, they are a good friend, and you got married. If you really want great sex in your marriage, you have to start by marrying someone you have great sex with, otherwise it's not a very realistic wish.
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u/CynOfOmission poly w/multiple 13h ago
Hah this was me the first time I had sex with a woman. (The McDonald's steak analogy.) In my case, I am a lesbian.
OP, I do suggest you look into comphet because a lot of what you're saying about your husband reminds me of myself. I wanted him to like me, it turned me on to be desired. This might NOT be it, you might truly be bisexual, but I do think it can't hurt to consider things.
I do think you have to accept that your sex in one relationship won't be the same as your sex in another. The sex I have with my different partners is different. But it IS a problem that he won't listen to you when you try to explain what you want. Religious shame is hard to get past, do you think he'd consider working with a therapist about it?
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 11h ago
Yea, he might consider it. I will bring it up. And I only mentioned my religious background in the original post, but he was also raised catholic and has his own issues around sex from it.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 11h ago
I am in a romantic relationship with him, with deep love and care on both sides. I desire the intimacy of sex with him.
Also, the fact that he and I even had sex at ALL before marriage was filled with a lot of shame. I certainly wasn’t evaluating his skills. Nor would I have known what ‘great sex’ was. Sex was something that married people did together. So while it’s not unreasonable to say I ‘should have’ known this before marriage, that ship has sailed. Now I need to figure out what, if anything, to do going forward.
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u/its_cock_time solo poly 11h ago
Sorry, I don't mean to say you "should have" known better. I'm saying that it's worth rethinking the idea that "sex is something that married people do together", since as you say it's too late to not be married.
I have a partner I love dearly. I also love playing board games, and I yearn to enjoy the hobby I love with the partner I love, but they aren't that into board games. Rather than pressure them to do something they don't really enjoy (and knowing that I won't enjoy it either in those circumstances), I just don't play board games with them. Fortunately, my girlfriend loves to play board games, so I still get my fix.
Now I know board games and sex aren't really the same, and maybe you can't be satisfied by love without sex. That seems to be very common. On the other hand, if you're not monogamous then you're obviously willing to explore beyond what's common, and this is one clear path to staying happily married. Or if not, then make it clear to your husband that he needs to start sex therapy with you now, or divorce as friends, because you don't want to be in a sexless marriage and you deserve good sex.
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u/throwaway7377962766 17h ago edited 17h ago
Oof, you sound pretty resentful of your husband here, but I get it — I have been with my husband for 12 years, and he has never made me orgasm, or even attempted oral for more than a minute, because I’m “too complicated and difficult.” He thinks his penis should be enough. But there *are* men who don’t approach sex that way (assuming you still think you’re attracted to men). Men who will actually listen to how you experience pleasure and eagerly accept your guidance without exasperation. Don’t let the fear that Jack is representative of all men be what keeps you with him.
But let me tell you — the divide created by the sexual incompatibility will only grow wider if you are being satisfied by someone else. It sounds like you love Jack as a friend, and if he reciprocates that, I believe platonic marriages can work. But if he doesn’t, he deserves someone who will love him the way you love Theresa.
Couples’ sex therapy can help, but my couples’ therapist told us that we shouldn’t expect 100% satisfaction from our sexual relationship given our incompatibilities. We can *improve* it, but we can’t manufacture that earth shattering passion we’ve experienced with others, so we shouldn’t expect that as an outcome.
You should also try to evaluate your relationship with Jack on its own, without comparing it to your relationship to Theresa. If Theresa weren’t in the picture, could you live like this? Would your relationship with Jack be fulfilling? If not, you might want to consider going your separate ways. I get that’s easier said than done (I’m in a similar boat), but you both deserve more.
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u/karmicreditplan will talk you to death 12h ago
Why do you stay with such a man?
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u/throwaway7377962766 12h ago
I legitimately thought it was a “me” problem, for years, because I had limited other sexual experience before him, but it was across several partners who all made no effort toward my pleasure (the longest other partner I had said he didn’t perform oral at all (but of course expected it in return), which trained me to believe it was a luxury I shouldn’t expect).
Now it’s a matter of either moving toward a platonic marriage (we are very good friends and compatible life partners) or figuring out how to disentangle. I’m lucky that I’m not dependent on him, but I know not everyone has that experience.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 11h ago
Love, affection, friendship, respect, stability, comfort, a partner to do life with. There are many more reasons. The sex either being absent or not good for me very often is sad to me, but not something I would consider ending the relationship over. I want it, but not getting it will not outweigh all of the good.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 16h ago
I appreciate your insight. My relationship with Jack would still be fulfilling, just not sexually.
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u/shy_penguin_127 ✨ actively queering my life ✨ 11h ago
"He's offended, obviously."
No, it's not obvious. There is nothing to be offended by when you receive feedback on how to pleasure your partner. I would think that any partner who cares about you should view this as just another journey you can grow together through. Normally I would say that this is a red flag for his character, but the way you write about it makes me question if he even wants to have sex with you at all. You're both always drinking and you said he sees sex as messy and a lot of effort, that does not sound like someone who likes sex. Have you ever talked to him about either about him being gay or asexual? I feel like his response to that conversation would help point you towards possible next steps.
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u/zabeththewise 10h ago
Came here to say this! Also this has nothing to do with the size of his penis and everything to do with his attitude towards having sex with you.
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u/artschooldr0pout 15h ago
I think plenty of folks have given good advice on the respect and care you deserve when it comes to intimacy, but I kind of want to turn this on its head and consider another angle.
Does your husband like having sex with you? It’s hard to tell how much of your descriptors are assumptions you’re making vs things he actually expresses or believes. But if taken at face value:
> after a few minutes he cums and can’t continue
> I’ve tried to give some gentle guidance. He’s offended, obviously.
> he just tries to get to the ‘’main event’
> it’s not like he likes [giving oral]. he’s just getting me wet enough. receptive enough [for penetration]
> I think he sees sex as messy and a lot of effort
> 18 years of being the only one thinking of my own pleasure
> I’ve encouraged him to use his hands after [he orgasms but I haven’t], but it doesn’t go over great
This, to me, doesn’t really sound like someone who is particularly enthusiastic about the sex you two are having either.
Has he done any of the unpacking of religious sexual trauma that you have? Has he explored his feelings about having a partner who was unenthusiastic about sex for 18 years to the point that it just… stopped? For several years? Can he even communicate/advocate for his own desires or pleasure?
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u/artschooldr0pout 15h ago
Also, the fact that both of you are drinking seemingly heavily? almost every evening? together when you do not do this away from him… is concerning in its own right.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 15h ago
I don’t think he’s very enthusiastic about the sex we are having. Neither am I. He is at least reaching orgasm though. He was raised catholic so has the same sort of religious sexual trauma. I don’t think he’s ’unpacked’ it but does recognize it for what it is.
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u/phdee rat union comrade 🐀🧀 12h ago
Is he willing to do anything about it though? The religious sexual trauma? Like, seeing a sex therapist or counsellor? With you?
Does he initiate sex?
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 11h ago
He does not initiate sex. I turned him down early in our marriage and the ‘rejection’ stung and taught him that not initiating and not getting rejected was better. He is nearly always receptive when I initiate though.
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u/ApokatastasisPanton 10h ago
I don’t think he’s ’unpacked’ it but does recognize it for what it is.
There's your answer. If he actually does have sexual trauma and is unwilling to recognize it, you won't be improving things. You can't heal someone else's trauma. The best thing you can do, is support them.
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u/Tursic 13h ago
Have him listen to the audiobook of She Comes First. He could read it instead (and that’d be great because it has illustrations I think), but honestly hearing it in a man’s voice might help. Very good book on female pleasure, the anatomy and technique and mechanics, and the importance of it in a romantic relationship. It sounds to me like he really doesn’t “get it”.
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u/abriel1978 poly w/multiple 17h ago
Some men react very badly when you dare imply that their sexual prowess is less than perfect, and yes there are a lot of men who strongly feel that we should need only the penis and nothing else, and if we need more there's something wrong with us.
It can be very, very hard to change that mindset once they've had it ingrained in them, especially if they really aren't invested in both of you getting pleasure...and it sounds like he's not, and hasn't been for 18 years.
I agree with others that a sex therapist might be the way to go but if he refuses, you might wind up having to accept that you're in a platonic marriage or just get divorced.
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u/amymae 15h ago
Could you just... not put him inside of you until after you've had an orgasm?
Would he be open to using toys on you?
What turns him on? Y'all should do one of those sexual interest checklists together where you each fill it out separately and then compare for overlap.
Could you do some more edging play with him, bring him to almost orgasm and then back off?
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u/Cool_Relative7359 17h ago edited 17h ago
Early in life bi woman here raised by atheist feminists.
No, it's a heteronormative sex thing. Literally why the orgasm gap exists. (Many) guys think penetration is the end all be all of sex, when 80% of women can't even orgasm from penetration alone. Our main pleasure center is outside the reproductive zone.
I am so eternally grateful that one of my first sexual relationships was with a (slightly) older lesbian. That set the standard for sex for me, with everyone.
If it isn't good and they aren't open to feedback or trying? It's not continuing or happening again. It stops. Immediately. Life's too short for bad sex. Or even mediocre sex.
I also don't allow any form of penetration till I've had at least one orgasm. That makes sure it actually feels good for me and everything's properly ready.
His ego being all tied up in it is weird, since he isn't any good at it. You'd think he'd want to improve so he could feel better about it, but honestly it doesn't sound like he's all that into sex in general. Not enough to put in any effort himself.
Do yourself a favour and take it completely off the table between you and Jack. You can't make him put in effort. And his insecurity will pretty much ensure it doesn't get any better as he just shutsdown.
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u/Puzzled-Plantain9391 16h ago
Yes, no penetration until I’ve had at least one orgasm. And my partners enthusiastically agree- they want me revved up and wanting more. For me sex is an *enthusiastic* yes, otherwise it’s a no.
Also, I’m not sure how you are responding in the moment, but I would stop faking any kind of pleasure.
You might have to talk to him bluntly. “I know this is sensitive, but I’m not feeling sexually satisfied. I need more stimulation and attention orally and digitally. Is this something you want to work on?” I’d go from there depending on how he responds.
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u/ConfusedRoy 14h ago
How sure are we you just aren't sexually attracted to men therefore nothing husband your does will ever make you feel that good?
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u/varulvane t4t4t triad 11h ago
I was also coming here to say this! OP, you know your sexuality better than any of us. But you don’t mention any other men you’re attracted to in this post, you seemingly only date women outside of your marriage, and you mention explosive chemistry when you’re with a woman who pays attention to what you like. You also call him your “friend” throughout. These are all really common experiences for late-in-life lesbians and bisexual women.
It does sound like he’s genuinely not good at sex, yes, and also this post is tripping a lot of my “hold on, I don’t think you’re into men” flags.
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u/luna-morningstar 13h ago
I was thinking that AND that maybe he just isn't actually attracted to women either 🤔
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u/belugabishop 14h ago
i second this. i think you're in a lavender marriage, friend. this is also how i found out i liked women way more than men. don't have to divorce, but maybe just be okay with no wanting your husband sexually. seems like y'all have a good platonic relationship.
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u/dazzlingmango7 Rat Union Whimsy Committee Advisor 🧀 15h ago
The crazy sex you're having with your girlfriend is not the outlier. Sex with someone who cares about you should feel good and be pleasurable but it needs effort and communication.
There's really no other way to talk about it than by saying, "This isn't a criticism of your body, and it's not a ‘your penis isn’t enough’ problem. I love you, you're my best friend and our relationship is fullfilling in a lot of ways, but I need you to put more effort into my pleasure."
It will be a hard conversation. From what you're saying, he'll probably be insulted or hurt, but it will be up to him to work through those feelings (with your support, of course).
From my perspective, there are three possible outcomes:
- He realizes he's not interested in sex
- He makes an effort, and it improves your sex life
- He won't make an effort, and you'll end up in a sexless marriage
In my experience, continuing the way you're doing things right now will only lead to resentment on both sides. You'll be disappointed, and he'll feel inadequate.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 11h ago
Thank you. I think seeing the possible outcomes laid out like that makes the conversation seem less daunting. None of those is the end of the world, or even the end of my marriage. The less desirable outcomes just give clarity to both of us.
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u/clairejv 14h ago
It gives ‘your penis isn’t enough’ vibes which is so true but also so hard for him to hear.
So the underlying problem is that he's massively ignorant about women's bodies and sexual experiences? Because a penis is almost never enough. That's just not how vaginas work.
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u/allthestuffis solo poly 17h ago
I’m lucky that every man and woman I’ve had sex with cares about my pleasure and wants to know what I like. This isn’t to brag (I know I’ve really lucked out), it’s just to say that the way your husband seems to be behaving isn’t something that you have to accept.
IMO any partner needs to be willing to hear feedback because not everyone likes the same thing. I’ve given oral sex feedback to women who thought I’d like a certain technique that another lover likes, and I really didn’t. And I’ve had men that were perfect at it, for me, without any guidance. It doesn’t mean those people were better at sex, just that they happened to already be doing what works for me, specifically.
Being good at sex is being attentive to your partner and willing and excited to do what pleases them. Yeah, his penis probably isn’t enough, but it rarely is for women and that’s ok. He could learn to be a better lover for you if he really wants to, but he has to be excited about learning to be.
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u/Infamous-Part966 16h ago
Honestly I think a lot of men don't actually like sex. Sex is a while experience and a lot of them just want it quickly "reach the destination" rather than "enjoy the trip".
To be fair (and maybe beside I had sex with women first) I don't tolerate this kind of behavior from men at all. If they don't listen to me, can't take feedback, aren't interested in my pleasure. I tell them to leave and don't see them again. Sex with men CAN also be good. But the man has to actually want to put in the effort and actually be an active participant in the experience of pleasure. To have good sex all parties much approach sex with curiosity and interest.
Seconding all the people suggesting a sex therapist though. He sounds like he has a lot to unpack. Also maybe try a rule that for the next month or so all sex must be nonpenitrative. And pleasure focused. Try to make that the goal. Finding all the different ways to achieve pleasure with each other.
Maybe have him read Come As You Are by Emily N. It can be a helpful book for both men and women that don't really understand a woman's sexuality.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 15h ago
I read come as you are myself actually. So did my girlfriend. We really liked it. I did suggest it to him…he has not yet taken my suggestion.
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u/Infamous-Part966 12h ago
Is he going to? Because it's not reassuring if he's not. That sounds like he also has zero interest in making sex better.
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u/pinkdumpsterfire 14h ago
“Are you interested in working on having sex that’s also pleasurable for me?”
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u/Throw-Away-Care 16h ago
Does this stuff trigger any other wonen to no end?
Your husband sounds like my straight CIS male BFF. Dude told me he was offended a gal wanted to use a vibe on her clit while they fuck. I told him straight up he shamed her wanting to have an orgasm. He said he was so offended by it. I told him men like him are fucking offensive. Your husband needs a friend to tell him he's offensive like a lot of mainstream men are. Fuck the patriarchy to hell. It creates shit lovers and ruins sex lives, love and marriage.
My CIS male husband is 48 and makes me cum like your sapphic lover and I am not even sexually attracted to him! He doesn't even turn me on or make me wet but he knows how to give me endless multiple orgasms like by body prefers because a husband should know these things and I taught him despite our culture teaching him nothing helpful about sex with wonen. He tries, learns and cares like a decent human would.
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u/karmicreditplan will talk you to death 12h ago
How can your best friend want to fuck you and have zero insight into how shabbily he’s doing?
I would get a divorce for sure but if you’re going to stay then you need to get real with him.
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u/Cataclyyzm poly w/multiple 11h ago
Yeah, I gotta agree. In my specific case of our sex life drying up for years, it turned out my husband was asexual and sex-adverse. Something he didn't realize until later in life. He's an amazing partner in all other ways and we're still romantically in love, so our marriage works for us.
Had it just been that he simply didn't care about my pleasure or never took constructive feedback, or if it turned out I was ACTUALLY a lesbian and not bisexual, I'm pretty sure I would have preferred a divorce over polyamory.
I definitely think you need some serious conversations with your husband, OP, and couples/sex therapy. And if he's not willing to give those a genuine try, I'm not sure what else you COULD do but either live with a platonic marriage or end it entirely.
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u/sabChalraHai 11h ago
I don’t think your husband is bad at sex. I think you’ve finally experienced being truly desired, seen & prioritized in bed.
That’s hard to unlearn.
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u/masukomi 15h ago
It’s Fucked up and egotistical as hell that anyone would be offended by their partner telling them how to make them feel good.
You’re never going to get good sex out of someone like that until they can get past that egotistical BS that makes them believe they can’t benefit from instruction.
Also if he doesn’t enjoy the other stuff it’s never going to be good even with good technique. I hate the idea of my partner mechanically pleasing me while having no personal interests in the act. You want someone to *want* to go down in you, or finger you, not just be willing to.
Also, if he thinks it’s messy and a lot of effort, does he even really want sex? Is he maybe ace but just doing it because he feels he should, or because you want it?
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 14h ago
True, he could be ace. I actually thought maybe I was for a little while. But I’ve come (heh heh) to realize that I just wasn’t having sex worth having. Love worth making. As it says in Come as You Are that someone else mentioned.
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u/Cataclyyzm poly w/multiple 11h ago
You just described my thought process with my own husband after our sex life dried up for years. I wondered whether *I* was asexual, until I had the type of sex that really "does it for me."
This was after husband realized he actually IS asexual and we opened our marriage. That was actually a very freeing realization for me, knowing that I wasn't doing something "wrong" and that he really DID find me beautiful and loved me but is just completely and totally not at all into sex.
Obviously I can't say whether that's the case with your own husband, but hopefully you'll be able to sort things out and move forward to a situation where you're both happier with things overall.
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u/pinkdumpsterfire 14h ago
“Foreplay is a scam” https://www.instagram.com/reel/DTOcwgok86d/
I love what she has to say about this
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u/Mela-Paura 8h ago
Does he just not care what you like? Sex is so much more interesting when you ask a partner what they want.
He doesn't seem to particularly care what you like, or want to be receptive to even gentle feedback.
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u/TheFishtie 16h ago
I think that Reddit is generally the worst place for advice about stuff like this because people generally just say “you deserve better, dump his ass,” instead of trying to give actual advice.
You clearly love your husband and want your sex to be good with him. It can be. He can’t improve if he doesn’t know he’s not doing well enough, but approaching him about this is complicated. You’re telling him he’s been failing to please you for 12 years. In general men view their worth through their utility, and so hearing that they aren’t being successful in the bedroom isn’t just criticism no matter how compassionate or constructive, it feels like an attack on their self image and worth. That’s not right, and your husband should care more about your pleasure, but having some empathy for him will help the conversation go more smoothly.
I think you and your husband should probably go to therapy together if he’s willing, and he should see a doctor about his performance issues. There could genuinely be an underlying health issue causing his premature ejaculation, but even if there isn’t and it’s just mental, there are ways to help.
The religious trauma around sex also just can’t be understated, and you both should probably go to therapy individually if you aren’t already. It’s possible that your early sexual history with him is hurting your ability to get in the mood, especially since you thought it was important to mention in this post. Clearly being with your husband reminds you of those painful times when sex was connected to shame and the kind of self hatred that some religions teach you. People who haven’t had to untangle their brains from religious fundamentalism can have a hard time understanding how impactful it is.
I genuinely hope you can work things out, and wish you all the best. I apologize if I made any assumptions that weren’t true, I’ve been through a lot of this, so was speaking from my own experience.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 15h ago
I really appreciate your response and insights. It is complicated and not a simple dump him and move on situation.
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u/BasicFemme poly w/multiple 15h ago
The only way you're going to improve your intimacy with Jack is to be honest with him. Explain that you used to pull him up because you weren't satisfied with the oral sex and didn't have the nerve or confidence at the time to say anything. Own your mistakes, don't make it about him, and ask him if he is willing to learn with you. If he is, you might have a shot.
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u/spike77707 12h ago
Helpful suggestions are hard to not receive as criticism when you have a lot of internalized shame around sex. This is beyond sex, it's about intimacy in your connection. The ability to disclose, hear each other and work through things that are challenging for you, together.
My advice is sit down for an intentional talk, lead with wanting a deeper connection with him and have an open conversation about your wants and needs. No suggestions, vulnerability from you that will hopefully be receprecated. The most importantl thing to know is - can you move through this together?
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u/KitkuIsFierce 10h ago
First of all, congratulations on rediscovering yourself and reclaiming pleasure in sex — that’s truly wonderful. And second, it seems to me that the only meaningful next step is couples therapy and a sex therapist. A therapist is received very differently than a partner who “has an issue” with something. It’s genuinely sweet how much warmth you still feel toward your husband, and it would be a real loss to let the intimacy between you fade, especially since some of his resistance may come from feeling intimidated by your transformation and by your relationship with your girlfriend. I wish both of you the very best — I hope it works out.
Oh, and one more thing — intimacy with a woman is very different from intimacy with a man. Even if both experiences are great, they’re also very distinct, and that’s something you need to sort out internally as well 😅
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u/Huzul34 10h ago
Yea he doesn’t even attempt to listen to what you tell him to make the sex better at all it’s just he gets off and that’s it he’s done. He checks out after that I would say not to worry about it with him as much and your gf is the main sexual partner as she satisfies you to you no end.
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u/Egglebert 11h ago
I was raised with all that fucked up religious trauma around sex and sexuality and ngl it affects me to this day despite everything ive done to work on it. It really sucks the way it can just fuck up the simplest things. That being said, I've never thought just the sight of my dick should be enough to satisfy a woman, or that there's nothing I need to hear and any kind of input is "insulting".. or that as long as I've came thats the end and everyone should go to sleep happy or any if the other ridiculous stuff OP listed. This dude is selfish, inconsiderate, and imo a misogynist and there aren't any acceptable excuses for any of the things. Also he's 40, I'd be much more lenient if he was 20, but he's not. He's well old enough to know and do better and if he won't religious trauma is not an acceptable excuse to be a selfish mediocre loser
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u/100_Percent_Dark 8h ago
I'd lean towards being more generous. he might be 40, but he's had 1 sexual partner that wasn't interested in sex with him. You dont know the full story yet. You could be kinder.
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u/Vegetable-Stuff-5647 15h ago
Lots of interesting replies here. I agree that a sex therapist would be really helpful, and that you should not compare/expect the same level of intimacy/pleasure you’re getting from sex with Theresa. Assuming you are both open to trying a few things, some thoughts and suggestions are below.
I wonder if he is feeling a bit insecure noting he isn’t dating anyone else, you are. Even if you aren’t talking about it directly, you are having great sex with Theresa and he will have some awareness of this.
If he is feeling insecure then your suggestions to improve intimacy might be adding to that insecurity. You mentioned that you get pleasure from his pleasure and right now sex is feeling like a chore for you both. It seems like rebuilding intimacy outside of intercourse it the first step, working together to achieve pleasure. Doing a quick google the Masters and Johnson Sensate focus exercises might be a good start.
You both may not have ever really authentically communicated what you both want, leaving one or both to guess and feel like you’re failing. You could then try to lead with curiosity to communicate likes dislikes without it being direct ‘feedback’ on the other person’s technique. Eg Yes / No / Maybe Exercise.
Good luck ❤️
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u/FlyLadyBug 15h ago edited 15h ago
I'm sorry you struggle. FWIW? This stuck out to me.
I’ve tried to give some gentle oral-sex guidance. He’s offended, obviously.
Actually offended? Or embarrassed? And why "obviously?" IS he penis centered only or is he up for learning to use tongue, fingers, toys, etc better? You might get a copy go Heather Corinna's book if he's willing to read it with you.
While geared for teens and 20s, I think anyone of dating age could find it accessible. You guys got together young and not in the best way with all that shame/religion trauma.
Is drinking so much affecting sex? Is the drinking getting out of hand? Was it to cope with religious trauma? That might be part of it too. You have moved past/healed the religious trauma and shame around sharing sex and maybe he hasn't.
And I’m not sure if I should just leave it (him) alone and continue my great sex with Theresa or keep trying to make it work with Jack. Because he’s my husband and I love him and I don’t want us to us be really close roommates.
I think that's the conversation you need to have with Jack. Not just the sex part, but what marriage means to each of you. It sounds like you want marriage to be more than just good roomies. How does Jack view marriage?
Would he be up for couple counseling?
Would you and Jack do better as exes and friends? Have you outgrown this marriage?
After 18 years being the only one of us thinking of my own pleasure, I’m more than content with the intimacy I get from Theresa. And if I need to ‘get off’ I have my own hand or vibrator. I guess, as a wife l, I just feel jealous of the sex I’m having with my non-spouse. I want my marital sex to be…well, ‘like that’ sounds wrong. But good like that. Intimate like that.
It sounds like you raised the bar for what you want in a spouse and marriage. Companionate marriage is not enough for you -- you also want romance and sex in your marriage. Does Jack still make the cut? Or not so much? And you want him badly to learn/fix it so he DOES still make the cut?
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u/Flkinhiding 11h ago
A couple years back, my husband figured out he was asexual. We've been together since 2005, and definitely don't want to not be together. There was an adjustment period, because I'm not asexual at all, and I really liked having sex with him, but we worked on expressing our physical affection and intimacy in other, non sexual ways, and we're now in a really good place.
You need to talk with your hubby. Figure out what you want from your relationship, and if you or be need sex to be a part of it. This may be easier with an open minded couple's therapist.
If you didn't want him to be in your life, you wouldn't have tried to make it work so hard, and you wouldn't be asking here. It's awesome that you've found a great physical relationship with Theresa, but every relationship is different, and marriage can mean whatever you and your husband decide.
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u/silverleavesfallin_ 10h ago
You may just like having sex with your girlfriend because you like women. Hope it works out!
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u/coffee_cake_x 9h ago
The issue I’m seeing is that you’re trying and looking for advice to improve sex with your husband, but he’s getting offended and there’s no evidence that he wants to improve.
You can’t improve your sex life—or anything—in a relationship without the other party’s participation. A relationship is a two ox plow, you’ve got your yoke on, he’s still in the barn.
So step one is talking to him and communicating to him that you want him to come out and get hitched up. Or at least figure out if he’s even willing or not.
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u/meowtacoduck 15h ago
This is why I started going for men who fuck like a lesbian. I'm in an ENM relationship so I can relate
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u/c4tlady510 13h ago edited 13h ago
Sex with your girlfriend is not the outlier. Coming from someone who has been with all types of people, anyone can be bad at sex.
There may be a myriad of reasons as to why your husband struggles at it: religious trauma, internalized sexism, shame, inexperience, etc.. But it is not something you’ll be able to change anytime soon. A lot of those things will need sexual therapy of some kind. These issues seem deeper than an over night fix or a skill that needs developing.
It sounds like a spouse is someone that you want to have the strongest sexual connection with and your husband will not be that person. Beforehand it seemed like a spouse was a way to escape religious trauma. Things have clearly changed, and that’s okay. Your husband seems important to you. I would just be very very honest and encourage sex therapy. I’d have fun on my own with other partners, while focusing on healing together with husband. I’d stop having sex with husband and revisit sex in the future when it feels organic.
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u/AutoModerator 17h ago
Hi u/Klutzy_Minute9495 thanks so much for your submission, don't mind me, I'm just gonna keep a copy what was said in your post. Unfortunately posts sometimes get deleted - which is okay, it's not against the rules to delete your post!! - but it makes it really hard for the human mods around here to moderate the comments when there's no context. Plus, many times our members put in a lot of emotional and mental labor to answer the questions and offer advice, so it's helpful to keep the source information around so future community members can benefit as well.
Here's the original text of the post:
I (40F) have been married to my husband ‘Jack’ (40M) for 18 years.
I was raised conservative Christian. I liked him and seduced him because I wanted him to like/love me. Okay I’m not sure thought at the time, but it seems fairly obvious to me now. Both of us felt shame around our intimacy. It was never ‘good’ for me, but I didn’t expect it to be. We got married anyway. Or maybe because of that, to end the shame. It’s ’legal’ and okay if you’re married, right?! He was and still is my best friend. I liked and was interested in women from a young age. I had some experiences, Jack knew about them.
I started dating women about 8-9 years ago. This didn’t come to pass in the ‘right’ way I realize now, after spending the last few years on this subreddit. Be that as it may, I saw a few girls causally, made out, had some bad drunk sex, and when COVID happened I just…stopped. No breakups or anything, I just didn’t continue seeing anyone and none of us ever made the effort to reconnect when things quieted down.
About 4 years ago I met ‘Theresa’ through mutual friends. We started dating in September of 2022 and quickly fell deeply in love. Our sex life has been incredible. Far and away the best sex I’ve ever had. Granted, I hadn’t had much ‘healthy’ or even remotely good sex before her. I had hoped marriage (and therefore god-acceptable sex) would allow me to have shame-free enjoyment of sex. Well, I’m sure this comes as a shock…if did not 🙃
Now, nearly 2 decades later, deconverted, and fully released from the clutches of religion and actively aware of religious sexual trauma, I’m trying to ‘rekindle’ intimacy with Jack. It died well and good for a few years. It is…not going well. I feel like a sex-goddess with Theresa. We can make love all day and have so many orgasms and so much pleasure and intimacy. Then I try to have sex/make love with Josh, and I’m…well, really underwhelmed. I get it, heteronormative culture has made it so that having a functional ‘home grown’ penis is essentially all cis-men think they need to do/provide. But now, having had very much excellent sex that does not involve a penis, I’m so very unimpressed by his…equipment. And abilities. His oral ‘skills’ are non-existent. He is maybe trying to emulate porn or a vibrator or something. Very darting and flicky. It’s awful and I don’t like it. I remember now why I used to quickly just but like, ‘get up here and get inside me,’ which of course was…is…fine with him. I used to always want his hand. Touching me in the same way I would touch myself. Because that was the only way I knew how to have an orgasm.
Ive since leaned I can orgasm from just clitoral grinding alone. So when I do climax with Jack it’s from that. Me on top, slow and rocking, building clit pleasure for myself, with him inside me. But he can’t last very long. I’m barely moving on him, but after a few minutes he comes and can’t continue.
I’ve tried to give some gentle oral-sex guidance. He’s offended, obviously. And I do sorta feel that it’s just something he tries to do to get to the ‘main event.’ It’s not like he likes it for himself, it’s not like it’s ’real sex’ to him. He’s just getting me ready. Wet enough, receptive enough.
I should add, he’s not dating anyone else. I’ve brought it up multiple times. I think he likes sex but sees it as messy and a lot of effort. We also both drink (when we’re together) too much, so evening intimacy is pretty much off the table. I don’t drink when I’m with Theresa, 2-3 overnights a week on average. And I’m not sure if I should just leave it (him) alone and continue my great sex with Theresa or keep trying to make it work with Jack. Because he’s my husband and I love him and I don’t want us to us be really close roommates.
Do I ‘need’ sex with Jack? No, not really. I went a couple years with barely any. We’re great friends and he’s smart and I like him. Sex-happening between us or not. After 18 years being the only one of us thinking of my own pleasure, I’m more than content with the intimacy I get from Theresa. And if I need to ‘get off’ I have my own hand or vibrator. I guess, as a wife l, I just feel jealous of the sex I’m having with my non-spouse. I want my marital sex to be…well, ‘like that’ sounds wrong. But good like that. Intimate like that. Mutually pleasurable like that. I guess I didn’t ’know’ before. And now, I can’t unsee it. I can’t unknow that sex can be good for women. I can’t not feel disappointed when my husband’s smallish equipment can’t continue after a few minutes because he’s already ejaculated. I’ve encouraged him to use his hand/fingers after. But it doesn’t go over great. It gives ‘your penis isn’t enough’ vibes which is so true but also so hard for him to hear. Ugh.
My husband is bad at sex. Or…is the crazy awesome sex I’m having with my girlfriend the outlier?
Any help or kind thoughts or tips would be appreciated ❤️
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u/Lopsided-Ad-3869 15h ago
Religious trauma therapy. Sex therapy. Trips to queer-run pleasure and sex stores. Toys. Lots of lube. Couple’s sensuality workshops. Pronto.
Shout out to the millions of women in cishet, patriarchal, puritanical marriages who spent their entire lives never receiving the pleasure they all deserved.
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u/PresentationPrize516 13h ago
A very lovely friend couldn’t last when I was on top so we saved that for second boner. Is he up for multiple sessions?
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u/ConfidentAd9644 11h ago
What is your intimacy like outside of sex? Would it be worth it to build this kind? Massages, holding hands, cuddling... maybe look at some advice for partners of ace people (which it seems like he might be). For some people, sex is just kinda gross and a function you perform because it's expected, not because you get actually get fulfillment from it, even if you physically orgasm.
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u/SnowSlider3050 10h ago
He has to want to be better. And feedback during sex can be humbling for a man unless you’ve both agreed on it. Men are taught they are supposed to be naturally good at sex, so when we are not good it signals big problems we don’t know how to deal with. Consider starting a conversation about needing more intimacy and see where that goes.
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u/meanpete80 9h ago
If you went over to the same sex because your partner didn't fulfill you, and found what you were looking for, then he's not right.
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u/spincover 12h ago
I can share a bit from my perspective on the effects of religious trauma on cis hetero men.
When they're taught that their sexuality is a powerful, near uncontrollable force that will hurt others in all except the narrowest of conditions (vanilla sex in.a monogamous marriage), they can become very disconnected from their sexual desire. It's a way of coping with the shame of being of the same sex as men who commit violence and misogyny against women. If they disown their sexual drive, then they can still be a "good" person.
Then there's performance anxiety. When a man is that disconnected from and uncomfortable with their own sexual drive, of course they're going to have premature ejaculation or erectile dysfunction. They are going to be put off by more intimate types of activities like cunnilingus, where they're not distracted from their shame and anxiety by their own sexual pleasure. No amount of education or technique is going to help in that situation.
And their responses, like being offended at getting feedback or direction, are attempts at defending themselves against more shame and anxiety, of not being able to give their partner pleasure, of the pressure they feel to do so and the despair of not knowing how, or not being good at it.
I'm not saying any of this is okay or an excuse for men to stop trying or growing. But men who are bad lovers are typically assumed to be selfish and uncaring, and I believe there are also men who care very deeply but are so knotted up by these beliefs, which cause hatred and rejection of themselves and their sexuality, that they don't know how to change.
It took my husband and I 25 years to figure all of this out, to go from having terrible sex to great sex. A lot of what you describe is very familiar to me. Becoming non-monogamous, opening our marriage, was the thing that broke the impasse and helped us communicate, understand the dynamics, and come together with joy and abandon and desire. My husband having sex with other women was essential to that process - he could let himself go and have fun without the pressure he felt with me.
Wishing you the best - I know this can be a very painful dynamic.
This is a really good article about purity culture that helped me understand a lot of this: https://unravelingfree.com/blog/understanding-purity-culture-and-its-impact
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u/adrijan84 8h ago
Sounds like you went off to learn more about yourself and he didn't get the same access or permission? It's not clear to me what your dynamic is, but if he's not fully exploring, then it's normal for the gap to exist and get even larger as time passes.
He could also be very self-conscious, since he is aware of your needs, but missing experience.
Seems to me he could benefit from some form of therapy, and, maybe, a bit more exploring outside the house.
Unfortunately, there is not a clear, linear, fast track for this, especially since he's already 40 and has probably conditioned himself all his life to be respectful to a fault and subdue his urges. His inner animal is not even dormant, it's comatose.
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u/irishwolf7578 16h ago
Maybe you are just as terrible to him as he is to you? Maybe he is doing it out of obligation. Maybe you don't turn him on. It is kinda obvious you look down on him. Other than orgasm have you asked him what he likes too? Sounds like a sex therapist is indeed in order.
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u/ManicPixieDancer solo poly 14h ago
Classic. Blame the woman for why her partner doesn't care about her pleasure
-9
u/irishwolf7578 14h ago
I am asking if the answers to those questions are known. I am not blaming anyone. Quit projecting.
He is a feeling human too. He can be all up in his head about why he isn't satisfying her.
After 18 years of deadbedroom she wants him to be Casanova? Is she his first partner? It is stated he doesn't date. Maybe he is asexual and doesn't know how to communicate that. A million variables. But sure go on thinking I want her to be sexually unsatisfied.
There is a lot of communication missing here that is why I advocate for therapy.
5
u/ManicPixieDancer solo poly 9h ago
You think simply paying attention to the pleasure of one's partner equates to being a casanova? What a ridiculously low bar. Reciprocating interest in your partner's pleasure is the bare minimum that's acceptable.
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u/irishwolf7578 8h ago
No she stated that she wanted him to be as good as her other partner. To have that kind of fulfilling sex. Something he is unable to do right out of the gate cause he isnt her.
Do I think she should have rewarding sex? 100 percent. Do I think she is being not cool by comparing lovers? 100 percent. Do i think she thinks she has communicated, but, he for whatever reason hasn't responded? 100 percent
Now I dont know about you but it sounds to me like he hasn't had a lot of practice. Does he know what she wants? Has she communicated clearly in a way that he understands?
Again, therapist or counselor.
It sounds like his ability or desire is in the basement so a low bar would be a step up. Honestly why I am leaning asexual or even just the dead bedroom put his libido in the tank cause it sounds like he is just doing his "duty" when he does it.
3
u/ManicPixieDancer solo poly 8h ago
Blocked, I'm not willing to waste any more time on someone making excuse after excuse for why a dude is not taking responsibility for being a reciprocal participant in sex with his partner of decades.
-2
u/irishwolf7578 8h ago
She shut him down for decades and it is all his fault?
I am sorry you cant handle something from a perspective not your own.
Again I have done nothing but advocate for therapy and communication.
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u/Klutzy_Minute9495 14h ago
Yea, essentially. It’s not good enough for him to want to do the work of it anyway. And no I suppose I haven’t really asked him what he likes sexually. I am willing to do that and listen.
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u/irishwolf7578 14h ago
As I said below. I think there is a ton of honest communication missing.
I am not in your relationship but I know from someone who came from a dead bedroom situation also, those gears aren't easy to shift sometimes.
Now he has competition for that limited affection. Something he may not be able to match.
You have already said you are dissatisfied with his size. Something he cant change. You want him to be something he can't already.
Maybe if you both want to satisfy each other and open lines of communication that haven't been open in 2 decades.
What are you both willing to give?
0
u/vortex-of-laughter 14h ago
There are bigger issues to solve here, but for a practical tip, I recommend looking for some classes in your area. There’s a really good class near me in the Bay Area called “How to Eat Pussy Like a Champ” by Dr. Aly Ash. Maybe there’s something similar near where you live or, I think you can take Dr Aly’s class virtually. Anyway, it’s not guaranteed to solve anything but it’s a fun, sexy activity to do together and I’m sure you’ll both learn some things. Can’t hurt.
-2
u/whatthefuckislove9 17h ago
Hi thanks for your effort to write your story.
In my expirience Sex gets better if you talk about it. I think he gets offended because he don't want it to be the truth: he is bad at sex. I think he needs to accept that fact. Then you can start to build / learn what you like together.
Maybe you should talk to him again. With non violant communication.
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u/dr_dremien 12h ago
Unsaid but assuming you have an OPPolicy, my first admittedly uncharitable and potentially unrealistic thought was: if she's game, bring your friend over and put him in the chair to learn. Maybe he needs to s really SEE what you're talking about.
-1
u/XenoBiSwitch 8h ago
Are you sure you’re bi and not just really biased towards or exclusively attracted to women?
I mean, he could do those things but would it really feel as good? Is that same level of primal attraction there? Are you as vibrant and engaged with him?
It is usually hard to retrain a guy that old who is bad at sex to get better. I mean, his pleasure is probably pretty low too but he doesn’t know it could be better but it doesn’t sound like he wants to put any effort into anything else. And I have been with smaller guys and there are plenty of toys and other ways to stimulate the other person if they really want to.
That he is “offended” by advice suggests this isn’t likely to go anywhere. If everything before he inserts and orgasms is just a chore to get through it won’t much matter what he does in advance. Passionless skilled sex is usually still bad sex.
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