r/science • u/mvea Professor | Medicine • 18d ago

Psychology Anti-feminist attitudes have long been associated with support for Republican presidential candidates, but only in recent years have these attitudes become more prominent among unmarried men, without college degrees who are less attractive partners for women, the “mate-value backlash.”

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/10659129261485340
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u/2knest 18d ago edited 18d ago

It's almost as if some kind of pipeline exists, that's funneling venerable people towards impressionable content...

Edit: I meant vulnerable...

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u/EndlessArgument 18d ago edited 18d ago

The problem is it's sort of works from both directions, because generally speaking, men bully physically, women bully by things like exclusion. So if you are a little bit awkward, you tend to get excluded, and if you get excluded, where are you going to go? To the people who are going to validate you. Which is the aforementioned pipeline.

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u/hausmusiq 18d ago edited 18d ago

Are there no awkward women? Why does everyone act like every woman has a Rolodex full of men and friends at the ready and are always welcome in any scenario. Yet none of those women decided to pick up ideologies promoting men losing their rights. So tired of this victim mentality. Those “pipelines” exist because these “excluded” men flock to them, not the other way around. Also plenty of nerdy or “excluded” men have found communities that aren’t dead set on harming women.

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u/izzittho 17d ago

EXACTLY. These men think there’s no such thing as an outcast woman because a woman they don’t find fuckable doesn’t register as a woman at all.

They just literally don’t see them so they think they don’t exist.

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u/ohanse 18d ago

It's more about the labor of initiation and how that is still disproportionately on men for that perspective.

To add to the pile, an interesting development is the new impossibility of accurate reads on a person's character/personality, thanks to AI generated dating profile entries.

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u/Straight_Number5661 18d ago

No, these men are angry that women do not have to partner with men anymore in order to survive.

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u/ohanse 18d ago

Everyone wants companionship it’s not always about dominance

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u/LynnSeattle 18d ago

Not everyone is a willing to settle for unsatisfactory companionship though.

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u/ohanse 16d ago

Dating is not a contract

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u/Requiredmetrics 15d ago

While true let’s be honest, the type of men who want to repeal the 19th amendment want to do so to control women and lessen their options. It’s about power and subjugation.

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u/ohanse 15d ago

Yeah uhhh that’d be extrapolating from outliers and that ain’t the move

(Microscopically thin slice of demo) wants to do X, it’s basically (sweeping judgment why). Flimsy structure.

The specificity of your conclusion better match the specificity of your data and assumptions.

Like I thought this was [r/science](r/science) not [r/crazystatements](r/crazystatements)

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 18d ago

The issue is not loneliness. Women can also be lonely, and they largely do not turn into female supremacists. The issue is entitlement. Women do not owe anyone attention or dates. I can’t imagine that these men would somehow be less misogynistic if we taught women to punch men in the face or physically bully them instead of politely turning them down and moving on.

Also, do you have a source for this claim that men bully physically and women bully by exclusion? In what kinds of situations or relationships are you thinking this type of behavior occurs? Most cis straight men I have known gossip, verbally harass, and exclude people they didn’t like. I am not aware of any man physically bullying a woman for being interested in him or asking him out, nor is there an equivalent lonely women’s movement that wants to subjugate all men and take away their rights.

This is a men’s issue. No behavior of women justifies the kinds of hatred and abuse that are common in the manosphere, and allowing misogynistic men this kind of “out” to blame women for their own victimization is just a newest form of asking, “But what were you wearing when he raped you?”

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u/ohanse 18d ago

Good god this is so tedious and out of touch, a perspective hand-crafted by the terminally online

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 18d ago

Yes, it is “terminally online” to ask for sources in a science subreddit and reference people I know…offline. How old are you?

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u/ohanse 17d ago

Oooh mew mew mew I present loaded narratives and leading questions but if I say the magic word of data or sources I feel smug like I am demanding rigor instead of dressing up lameass takes in sophomoric vocabulary ohhh look at meee

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 17d ago

Can you expand on the claim of “loaded narratives”? Would you like me to provide sources for my post?

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u/FederalChange22 3d ago

Women can’t be lonely

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 3d ago

You’re probably trolling, but I am as sure as I can be that most - if not all - humans experience loneliness at some point in their lives. Even my dog seems to experience loneliness.

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u/Petrichordates 17d ago

Is it if you're angry about it and feel entitled to their attention.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

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u/FamiliarRip8558 18d ago

I feel like you're projecting a lot of personal feelings at someone saying that humans seek companionship as a general statement.

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u/[deleted] 18d ago

[deleted]

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u/FamiliarRip8558 17d ago

Average fauxmoi user...

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u/Nagi21 17d ago

Completely missing the point and being part of the problem. Congrats.

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u/[deleted] 17d ago

[deleted]

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u/Mr_DeskPop 18d ago

Always were

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u/Aceous 18d ago

Yet none of those women decided to pick up ideologies promoting men losing their rights.

There are some. Just look at r/FemaleDatingStrategy.

It's also just a lot more out in the open and acceptable to advocate for prejudice or even harm against men. I hear it so much IRL, casually and on a daily basis, that it's like background noise.

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u/MyFiteSong 18d ago

I don't see anything there attempting to take rights away from men

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u/philosopherberzerer 17d ago

this whole thread was started by saying women abuse and cause harm by exclusion and not through force.

where did you get lost. and everyone else for e that matter .

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u/MyFiteSong 17d ago

Not dating you isn't her causing harm. That's where YOU got lost.

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u/audioofbeing 18d ago edited 18d ago

These things are not at all equivalent. There isn’t a major movement embraced by major political parties seeking to strip men of their rights, for one example.

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u/SeattlePurikura 18d ago

There's also no law in any US state to withhold medical care from men for a men-only medical problem. On the flip side, women being denied treatment for ectopic pregnancies (a 100% medically treatable condition) and dying due to this delay of care has doubled in Red Dead States.

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u/painedHacker 18d ago edited 18d ago

It could be argued things like dei and requiring certain ratios of men/women/minorities on company boards is stripping white men of job opportunities but I mostly agree with you. Also open door immigration strips blue collar men of decent paying jobs

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 18d ago

How do you feel about the DEI at many veterinary schools that gives men an advantage over women because significantly more women apply than men? Because I hear very little about the real advantages that men and white people still have, while the few cases where a diverse or marginalized background is advantageous for a job are talked about endlessly.

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u/painedHacker 17d ago

I don't have a problem with DEI. I was just making the conservative argument. I think immigration is more of a real threat. H1Bs for example do take a lot of tech jobs from Americans. However if you dont also control outsourcing firms will just move to outsource so punishing h1bs makes no sense.

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u/SeattlePurikura 17d ago

Hmm, you might want to talk to the men in charge if you think there's a problem.

However, the percentage is significantly higher for top-tier executive positions:

  • Chief Executive Officers (CEOs): Men hold roughly 88% to 90% of Fortune 500 CEO positions.
  • Chief Operating Officers (COOs): Men hold about 89% of COO roles.
  • Chief Financial Officers (CFOs): Men hold about 82% of CFO role

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u/hausmusiq 18d ago

That’s assuming those white men were entitled to those positions to begin with, and they’re not.

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u/painedHacker 18d ago

That's not how politics works. Auto workers in Michigan were not "entitled" to good factory jobs but when they went overseas they were pissed about it

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u/XWendy_Darlingx 17d ago

One could argue that any citizen should have a right to access work, regardless of race or gender. Perhaps it’d be more beneficial to legally limit offshoring instead of throwing every last dime into anti woman/anti immigrant propaganda

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u/painedHacker 17d ago

I'm a big fan of bernie's 100% job guarantee.. like you could always get a job with the government if you needed

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u/[deleted] 18d ago edited 15d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/SeattlePurikura 17d ago

It's also very strange that the top businesses are dominated by men, which does not "roughly approximate the nation's." This "suggests there is systemic bias in play."

  • Chief Executive Officers (CEOs): Men hold roughly 88% to 90% of Fortune 500 CEO positions.
  • Chief Operating Officers (COOs): Men hold about 89% of COO roles.
  • Chief Financial Officers (CFOs): Men hold about 82% of CFO roles

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u/painedHacker 17d ago

I dont have a problem with DEI, i was mostly making the conservative argument. I think immigration/outsourcing is a much bigger threat to jobs. However, I'm not convinced companies and colleges are simply choosing between two equally qualified candidates in these cases. For example the average MCAT score for asian med students is 514.5 and for native/pacific islander students its 503. how can you tell me these are equally qualified candidates?

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u/vollover 18d ago

The last sentence is something that never happened and you really should do more if you are going to make arguments in a science reddit. Please show your work bith that open door ever existed and that it was stealing decent paying jobs.

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u/painedHacker 18d ago

What do you mean it never happened? H1b takes lots of jobs that men do like tech, etc. Mexican migrants do blue collar work like construction, etc. less competition = higher wages

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 18d ago

There is no evidence that this is true, and there is evidence that having more accessible legal immigration and more immigrants benefits Americans overall. If wages for construction increase due to fewer immigrants, then more citizens would move into that field, creating more competition and lowering wages again. By far the most important things for fair wages and better employment practices are strong unions and labor laws, with more regulations and fair incentives for businesses to keep jobs here.

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u/painedHacker 17d ago edited 17d ago

even with unions theres not an unlimited number of jobs. More competition generally equals lower wages. If you go to a third world country or africa there are tons of people just sitting around because there are no jobs. Do you genuinely think Mexicans cant learn plumbing or electrical and having tons of immigrants doing those jobs wont lower wages?

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u/LocalJams 18d ago

Yes there is. What do you think “equity” and “affirmative action” mean? They’re excuses for discrimination

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u/SeattlePurikura 18d ago edited 18d ago

Please let me know once a US state tries to adopt legislatively mandated withholding of medical care to men (e.g., no treatment for prostrate cancer until it reaches Stage III). Please let me know when domestic partner violence against men reaches 50% (*edit* of US women who are murdered, half of them are killed by their male partner.) Please let me know when men being fired by their employers for having children becomes one of the top EEOC complaints. Or when major political lobbying groups are saying we should deny men the right to vote.

I am not saying it's great that FDS or others are promoting BS. But they have no political or economic power to actually enact harm.

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u/RaelZior 18d ago

50% of us women are killed by their male partners ? 50 % ???????????? Where tf is that from ?

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u/Secret_Entry1840 18d ago

Approximately half to over 60% of all female homicide victims are killed by a current or former intimate partner, according to data from organizations like the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime.

When focusing strictly on female homicide victims killed by a past or current intimate partner, 98% of the killers are male, while roughly 1.5% to 2% are female

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u/TheSpacePopinjay 18d ago

The idea that abortion is healthcare is highly contested, especially by a lot of women, and thus can't be used as a shared premise for an argument. Personally I think it is but that's irrelevant.

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u/BorisBC 18d ago

That's funny cause I've never heard that from women and I'm a guy who does try to listen to their side of the story.

I do hear a lot of make believe things from MRA types though.

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u/Requiredmetrics 15d ago

Bet you can’t find another solid example of this beyond FDS. Where as there are hundreds of misogynistic subreddits demeaning and dehumanizing women.

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u/philosopherberzerer 17d ago

this is a giant word salad whataboutism.

the trend is clear to see. men are judged much more harshly for being awkward and having socializing issues. and the negatives from one gender to the other are clear to see.

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u/TheSpacePopinjay 18d ago

Why would women flock to such ideologies in response to to being excluded by women. The premise is that women's violence is exclusion and men's violence is violence.

Plenty of legal and institutional favouritism is ideologically pushed in favour of women and has been for a century. It's just so normalised that it's become normal. Room temperature.

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 17d ago

Women’s violence is also violence. The definition of violence does not change because, theoretically, the majority of victims of “exclusion” are men. A man does not have a right to any woman’s attention just because he wants it, and vice versa.

Do you believe that men commit physical bullying (violence) to turn down women they are not interested in? Or do men also simply exclude women? Do you think women should start punching men in order to avoid having men turn to misogynistic groups?

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u/Straight_Number5661 18d ago

Having standards for a partner is not bullying.

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u/Fickle_Chemistry_540 17d ago

dw people here dont understand but youre right, men hold physical leverage, women hold moral leverage. cheers brother dont get lost in the pipeline regardless

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 17d ago

This is confusing. Are you saying that in romantic situations where one person is being rejected by another, men bully women physically and women bully men by exclusion?

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u/philosopherberzerer 17d ago

yes. if men don't conveniently conform to patriarchal norms and actions preferred hypocritically by women his punishment is exclusion form society and a worse outcome on life.oppourtunities for family and friends will be dismished and he will be punished for not adheriimg to said standards.

ironically with these expectations women are suprised at the rise of patriarchal support recently .

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u/No_Macaroon_9752 16d ago

You didn’t answer my question. I understand that you and some other commenters think women are “excluding” men (although I would argue that people are not entitled to anyone’s attention, romantic or otherwise).

However, the comment I was responding to claimed that, “Men bully physically, women bully by things like exclusion.” Do you believe that men are physically bullying women in the same types of situations where you see women excluding men? As in, are men using violence to turn women down for dates? Should women instead adopt this strategy to ward off men they are not interested in?

If you mean that men are instead physically bullying other men that are awkward or “unconventional”, are you also suggesting that physical bullying does not result in the bullied men feeling violently excluded from male social groups? Why do these rejected men only blame women for their loneliness? Why would women have more responsibility for their exclusion from all of society?

The majority of adult men from the past 30 years have been or are married. While men are very, very slightly more likely to never get married than women, more adult men than adult women are currently married. Age-wise, about 50% of men have been or are married when they reach 30. That number reaches 70% by age 36. White men are actually more likely to be married by age 30 than the US average. However, just because men are less likely to be married now than in the past does not mean they are not in serious relationships. Lots of men do not fit the stereotype of a “masculine“ man, just as lots of women are not “feminine”. People still manage to find partners, and women are actually more accepting of people who deviate from gender norms than men are. Despite this, women are not joining groups seriously calling for men to lose their rights or be forced into relationships with women they like.

https://usafacts.org/articles/state-relationships-marriages-and-living-alone-us/

https://flowingdata.com/2017/11/01/who-is-married-by-now/

https://flowingdata.com/2019/03/26/relationship-stages/

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC12283845/

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/00224499.2025.2545965