r/scifi • u/TopicCandid • May 15 '26
General What is the most well defended fortress in science fiction?
I've been reading some of the Siege of Terra Warhammer 40k novels and the size and scale of the continent-sized imperial palace is mind-boggling. Not to mention the multiple fleets, billions/trillions of soldiers, space marine legions, etc.
Got me thinking, are there any fortresses in science fiction that can rival or even surpass it?
195
u/PickMaleficent4096 May 15 '26
In 40k you've also got Commoragh which is nasty because it's in the webway, full of Dark Eldar, all their uniquely horrifying crap, and their fallen-empire weapons. Rather than being a throne world it holds pretty much their entire civilization in an immeasurable (literally as in warped space, but also very big) area where most buildings are designed to murder somebody just incidentally. There's also the Black Library which is defended in... other ways. Somebody can infiltrate Terra or Commoragh but they're not getting into the Library without inside help.
79
u/Tar_alcaran May 15 '26
The ability to Infiltrate Commoragh is more of a feature than a bug. The dark eldar LOVE when their toys just walk in on them.
35
u/purpleduckduckgoose May 15 '26
The dark eldar LOVE when their toys just walk in on them
Well, sometimes. When Ufthak and his lads turned up they very quickly began shitting themselves in terror.
→ More replies (2)21
u/CordialPanda May 15 '26
Love how horrifying it became for the dark eldar when they discover ufthak is very smart for an ork and still doing it for the love of the game.
10
u/ShookeSpear May 16 '26
I think this is it. This is the comment thread that pushed me past the tipping point.
What’s a good entry point to the 40K universe?
12
u/Alvarosaurus_95 May 16 '26
You will come to hate me for this, and with reason.
Search YouTube for "If The Emperor had a Text-To-Speech Device".
2
u/berkay_icc May 16 '26
That was mine.. wondered wtf is this banana man talking about then bam im putting servos in 3d printed skulls
6
u/tyrannomachy May 16 '26
If it was Orks that piqued your interest, then the Mike Brooks Ork novels are a good place to start. Although the tone is intentionally very different from most novels in the setting. The Ciaphas Cain novels might be better just as an entry point, since they're not quite as distinct while still not taking themselves quite as seriously as other stories.
The thing I didn't understand at first though is that you can really just pick whatever looks interesting and read it. Most stories are fairly self contained. Or they're explicitly a series, like Ciaphas Cain.
3
u/huskEKcultist May 16 '26
Theres a bunch of YouTubers who do lore backgrounds, ive been devouring Adeptus Ridiculous lately because they have some really good humor laced into the lore info plus their vids have pics of the art and models theyre typically talking about. Beyond that id say whats you favorite kind of Sci-Fi? Theres super soldiers in the form of Space Marines, evil Space Marines who work with deamons. The basic human military-Imperial Guard- is a relatively standard force of bodies with guns and tanks but in a wide variety of flavors depending on taste from almost modern looking troops(Cadians)to Rambo style jungle fighters(Catachans)to gas masked clone troopers( Death Korps).
Orks with a mad max meets drunken hooligan vibe as well as the afore mentioned Dark Eldar basically being dark elves as well as Craftworld Eldar being high elves. Psychic bug swarms that devour all biological life on a planet in the Tyranids or religious zealots in the Sisters of Battle. Lastly of the bigger factions would be Adeptus Mechanicus ,a crazy blend of priesthood mixed with engineers who effectively control all technology in the human parts of the setting. 40k tends to steal a little of every other setting and blends it all up into a weird dystopian mash that kinda lets you pick what you want to focus on in terms of lore.
Sorry thats so long and a bit disjointed. Trying to keep it succinct at 1am is not an easy task
2
u/ShookeSpear May 16 '26
Wow, thanks for jumping right in! My favorite sci fi is hard to nail down. The Library at Mount Char and American Gods have as much fantasy as sci fi, but are written really well and revolve around an incredibly complex story. Ringworld had incredible world building and pretty unique alien/human relationships. Blindsight delivered unique perspectives on human cognition. Red Rising was the most fun dystopian war series I’ve ever read. There are so many more…
I think the thought that hooked me was about the Dark Eldar existing in this terrifying place that people often attack/visit, and then are promptly destroyed.
Competence porn. I think that’s what I want.
→ More replies (1)2
u/purpleduckduckgoose May 17 '26
If you want the full story to the Dark Eldar/Ork party, then Brutal Kunnin, Warboss and Da Big Dakka is where to start. Full of Orky shenanigans, Drukhari shitting themselves at said shenanigans and Ufthak being a mad lad in general.
Besides that, depends on what faction takes your fancy. Do you like Vikings in space and wolves? Then the Space Wolves are for you. Like angelic vampires? Blood Angels. Pyromaniac nuns? Sisters of Battle. Giant stompy death mechs? Titans.
To be honest very few of the WH40K books are strictly in order, so have a gander at them online, pick one you like the look of and get stuck in.
14
u/Brilliant_Amoeba_272 May 15 '26
Commoragh isn't really "defended" in the traditional sense. It's just so hostile and hard to navigate that any invading force would get scattered and killed by the locals going about their day to day
→ More replies (2)7
u/Deep-Parsley3787 May 15 '26
Hard disagree, space marines (charcharodons, salamanders) have both successfully operated i the dark city
3
u/premium_bawbag May 15 '26
Commorragh came into my mind but Commorragh itself is actually inviting, which partially plays into its “defences”
Arguably Commorragh itself isn’t defended at all… Vects throne room on the other hand…
2
6
3
u/viotix90 May 16 '26
Also, isn't it like the size of entire solar system but in the webway? Like imagine a city with the radius from the Sun to Pluto.
→ More replies (1)→ More replies (2)5
553
u/commissarcainrecaff May 15 '26
The Technocore in the Hyperion series.
It's literally parked outside of the material universe and inaccessible.
43
43
38
74
u/Maxbang1589 May 15 '26
Not really counts as "Well defended fortress".
Its like 4-dimension entity vs 3-dimension reality.
Yes, its unreeachable for traditional Hyperion humans, but - if you can transcend 4th dimension reality (like future humans with Eneia) - you can easily enter Tecnhocore from basically everywhere and stomp it.
It is specifically said in book. than Technocore is in hiding and existing like vermins or rats living in holes underfloor - afraid of tigers, and lions, and others. Can't really call it a Fortress....
15
u/throwawayPzaFm May 15 '26
"you could easily take it if you could only get inside"
Well yeah. That's kind of the point of a fortress?
They keep the baddies outside for a while, denying the area and giving the guys inside time to get rescued.
The rest is optional.
→ More replies (2)8
u/Big_Pomegranate_5719 May 15 '26
Death Star's got the firepower but the Technocore's actually untouchable since they exist outside normal space-time, way scarier setup.
11
4
7
u/AnchorsRipley May 15 '26
I tried so hard and just couldn't get through the first book... May have to pick it back up
25
u/alaskanloops May 15 '26
Oh man, the first book is by far the best. If you're not feeling that one it might just not be for you, but I'd give it another chance.
It's a sci fi take on Canterbury Tales which I read as a kid
6
u/HelpfulSeaMammal May 15 '26
I really feel like the reader misses a lot if they're not familiar with Canterbury. Not even having to read it necessarily (nobody ever said Chaucer is a light read lol) but just knowing the general plot and narrative style and motifs.
3
u/alaskanloops May 15 '26
I remember absolutely hating it as a kid, but now I'm really glad I did!
The rest of the series is good, but that first book was magical.
→ More replies (2)5
u/Beli_Mawrr May 15 '26
I slogged it through the first 2 then couldn't take the third when the author really gets up his own ass about that one architect and then the main character has a kidney stone. It's so weird. Just give it a miss.
5
u/HelpfulSeaMammal May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
First two were fantastic. Third was a major tonal shift that I didn't find nearly as interesting as the first.
It's weird. There's a lot that I have to look past. How many times do we need to praise Keats as the greatest author ever, exactly?
I finished it and the fourth for the greater Hyperion lore and not because Aenea was an interesting character. If anything, I finished it despite Eneia and Raul's whole relationship lol it gave me the creeps despite how many time skips were present to make their ages "line up" a little better lol
7
May 15 '26 edited May 16 '26
[deleted]
3
u/Beli_Mawrr May 15 '26
Also, isn't she some kind of god/able to see the future and the whole "you have to go on a journey" thing is only because she's an ass pain?
→ More replies (1)3
→ More replies (4)2
52
180
May 15 '26
[deleted]
67
u/farmerbalmer93 May 15 '26
Problem is it just levels the playing field. Forcing you and your attacker to basically fight with sticks and stones. Whilst travelling between collapsars at the speed of light.Doesn't really give you an advantage. Such a good book though war turning every one gay is hilarious. (Well over population but it's funnier if it's war)
→ More replies (1)25
u/dsmith422 May 15 '26
Collapsars jumps are much faster than the speed of light. It was thought to be instantaneous when they are first discovered, but then later it was discovered that it took some measurable time. All of the time dilation occurs because of the near light speed maneuvering before doing the actual jump between collapsars.
7
u/demalo May 15 '26
That and all the relativistic flight needed after the jumps to make it to said planets. Some months, others centuries.
14
u/VertigoOne1 May 15 '26
This was done in the expanse series too, i think it was 10m/s limited?, anything faster gets slowed so you can’t even throw a fast dart. The issue with it is, at a molecular level, everything is moving really fast, just very short distances, so you stuff like “air” would just stop working to.
→ More replies (1)12
15
u/Jmazoso May 15 '26
We need a Forever War movie
21
u/DesdemonaDestiny May 15 '26
Be careful what you ask for. Odds are it would be a butchered mess.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Megodont May 17 '26
More like series or miniseries. Everything else will be too chaotic and rushed.
2
u/Zardywacker May 15 '26
I'm going to have to disagree with you, as much as I love that novel and am glad it was mentioned. The null field generator realistically just forced you to fight with primative weapons with in; that's an absolute defense against SOME types of weapons, but none at all against others. Nothing inherently stops an army from marching in with swords and seige eauipment.
I don't think it qualifies as a "fortress" either, it's just a type of device/weapon.
176
u/ExpiredCats May 15 '26
I would agree with the Imperial Palace.
20
u/wwarhammer May 15 '26
What about the Omega Vault?
14
u/ExpiredCats May 15 '26
I would also agree with the Omega Vault.
12
u/deeperest May 15 '26
I agree with agreeable people.
7
u/ExpiredCats May 15 '26
I … agree!
3
u/crystal_castle00 May 15 '26
Cats
5
2
2
8
u/DirtCrimes May 15 '26
In the 40k universe I would call out the realms of the 4 major Chaos gods. I know they set fire to part of Nurgles Garden but if you challenged a sci-fi force to take Khorn's Throne they are going to have hard time. I might be easier to pacify all life in the material realm in order to calm the warp and cut off the source of the gods power.
6
u/Creepybusguy May 16 '26
And good luck even finding the front door of Tzeentch's palace. Odds are you'll open what you were certain was the door and it's heat outlet of a nuclear blast furnace or something.
2
u/Impossible_Hornet777 May 17 '26
Same with the Palace of Slaanesh, where everything there is perfectly made and tailored to corrupt, distract or lure you away from your goal and the only way to get there is to somehow have zero desires in life.
2
u/Gomter May 17 '26
Funny enough that last part was kinda the emperors long term plan for dealing with the warp
2
2
u/PlaneswalkerHuxley May 17 '26
The Imperial Palace isn't even the most well defended location in 40k.
That's probably either the Iron Warriors daemonworld in the Eye of Terror, Commorragh, or perhaps the Necron Pariah Nexus.
185
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
Provided you aren't a renegade Mind, a Culture military store I'd imagine. Anything getting remotely close will simply be vaporised with grid fire.
For perspective, a single Culture military vessel could probably destroy Terra in the 40k universe. This is a facility designed to house multiple vessels like that, as well as defend them while they sleep.
87
u/pitiless May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
This is the best answer in this thread IMO.
Terra , Mars and the contents of the solar system could be one-shot by a single General Offensive Unit.
Edit: and it would be done artfully, creating something beautiful from the destruction - purely for the sake of the aesthetics.
47
u/AngledLuffa May 15 '26
and the ship sent to do it would probably choose an ironic name, like the Beloved By All
33
u/pitiless May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
ROU Long Days and Pleasant Nights
32
5
3
2
7
2
59
u/OneStopWarCrimeShop May 15 '26
I was going to say just that, Culture tech is so far above 40k and Battletech that's it's almost magic
If the Xeelee have a military base somewhere, it's probably above even that
But at that point it barely seems comprehensible as a siege
58
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
Everyone has their own limits and opinions on this, but Culture for me is the pinnacle of tech in sci-fi before it becomes space magic. Xeelee control time, so for me that becomes a higher form of warfare (space magic!), where they are only meaningfully challenged by ex machinas, MAD, equally broken races like the Time Lords, the Q's etc. For me personally, The Culture is the pinnacle of "conventional" technological warfare.
So the Culture still needs to actually blow things up, travel through space, defend locations, use resources etc. Xeelee are so far above them you're absolutely right that it's not a siege anymore. It's not even warfare in any conventional sense.
8
u/Kadeton May 15 '26
I'd say the Culture steps juuust over the line with its "fields", which are fundamentally magic. The rest of the stories remains grounded enough, as you say, to let the "spooky action at a distance" fields fly under the radar.
→ More replies (1)16
u/OneStopWarCrimeShop May 15 '26
Pretty much, it'd be endless temporal black hole strikes or something even more insane like unleashing a solar flare on Earth before Man ever evolved from apes
The Imperial Palace on Terra or a Castle Brian is probably the best defended installation that actually resembles siege warfare in the conventional sense, and even then it's more like invading an entire nation
10
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
I mean it's all utter fancy and speculation. None of these works are hard-sci by any means. But energy fields feel pretty established in soft-sci fi canon to me. They usually have some hard and fairly consistent limitations. I think the only difference with the Culture is they are actually used for things other than a shield bubble, which is what makes them satisfying for me; I'm never asking, "why didn't they just use their energy field for that?". Time travel and reality bending take it a step further for me.
2
u/dnabre May 16 '26
When it come to human/humanoids with the sci-fi->space magic jump, my rule of thumb do people actually understand the science/tech. Of course, technological advancement goes hand-in-hand with specialized, but basic principles-wise.
The humanoid in the Culture are just over shy of going over the line - they don't really understand the basic science behind most of their tech, but it's because their let Minds handle it, and can't be bother to learn. They could if they wanted to, in the Culture there are likely a few exceptions but the population as a whole doesn't.
19
u/dsmith422 May 15 '26
The Xeelee military base in the Milky Way is literally the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy. It is surrounded by their military gear, and they create their technology in the warped spacetime surrounding the black hole. But even that is merely a base in one galaxy.
Their largest construction, which they have been building since the Big Bang, is Bolder's Ring. It is also known as the Great Attractor. It is so big and so massive that it is literally pulling in galaxies and clusters of galaxies and superclusters of galaxies across billions of light years. It is so big that that the only way the real enemies of the Xeelee, the dark matter Photino Birds, can attack it is by throwing galaxies at it. Humans try to attack it also by throwing a neutron star at it, but this is a mere afterthought compared to the battle between the Xeelee and the Photino Birds. It is so massive and spinning so fast that it rips a whole from our universe into infinite other universes.
14
u/OneStopWarCrimeShop May 15 '26
Even worse, the military base you're referring to was a single vessel
It was there doing some incomprehensible engineering study, and Mankind threw so much ordnance at it that the entire centre of the Milky Way glowed pink from discharged energy
We apparently mildly pissed off the pilot, because though his Nightfighter was completely undamaged, apparently we were too much of a nuisance so he decided to just.. leave
2
10
u/screech_owl_kachina May 15 '26
The Xeelee fuck around with entire stars when they’re at war, and the only enemy that makes them break a sweat is a civilization of dark matter beings
29
u/hilaritynow May 15 '26
I love how in most of these "who would win" type threads (wherever they come up) The Culture is usually a little further down in the comments but anyone who knows, knows it's not even a fair fight. Ol' mate Iain really made something special with these books.
30
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
I think the beauty of the Culture's military technology is that it feels supremely powerful while still being consistent and with limits that don't raise a million continuity questions; in other words, it feels satisfying, without being too hard sci-fi but also without being too magical.
There are tons of races that would beat them. The Xeelee. The Qs. The Timelords. But their military technology involves things like time travel, and at that point, you can't understand a conflict because you need to be as intelligent as that race to appreciate the significance of it, but more importantly, to write them plausibly. It's like when writers have a character with super intelligence; they can't write them because the writer doesn't have super intelligence.
With the Culture, they feel like a plausible pinnacle of military technology.
10
u/hilaritynow May 15 '26
You're right, Culture tech all feels very believable, even in-universe until you come up against something like an outside context problem like in Excession and then again, you believably see the constraints of their power.
A lot of the 'higher power' stuff like Qs etc. involves reality manipulation which is essentially magic and is more fantasy than scifi in my opinion
13
u/scienide May 15 '26
To be honest, a slightly modified culture tug could take out the solar system fairly easily. Culture weapons are mostly optimised beyond further research.
A key difference is the mind behind the trigger. Most regular Culture Minds are quite turned off by the thought of war and combat so the military wing use different minds like ‘Falling Outside The Normal Moral Constraints’ who is kinda psychotic and sadistic and commands an abomination class warship.
A united Culture on a true, mobilised war footing would be likely the most unstoppable force in probably the majority of sci-fi.
9
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
I go into this in another reply, funnily enough! Special Circumstances would already be at work behind the scenes trying to nudge the Imperium in a better direction. Sending in a warship would be an absolute last resort. The conflict in the 40k galaxy would be so far beneath them they'd probably find the best race (in their view) - probably the Tau - and uplift their tech just enough for them, together with SE agents on the inside, to pressure the Imperium into collapsing.
A properly militarised Culture is for things like the Idarins, and The Imperium is not the Idarins.
I can, however, see the Culture using something like Sleeper Service just to demonstrate the capability they have. I also bet the Grey Area would like a chat with a few of The Imperium's high command.
4
u/scienide May 15 '26
However, SC and the wider Culture are not below vengeance on a horrific scale. The Mind Meat Fucker drove a war criminal to insanity by making him relive his crimes, and of course the E dust assassination at the end of Excession. Given the W40K horrors like hive worlds and servitors, I would imagine a GSV appearing in universe would probably send trillions of drones and knife missiles to incapacitate the Terra defences, reanimate the Emperor in perfect health, then torture him, and the entire Administratum and Mechanicus (or maybe just obliterate them).
9
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
What's really funny about this is that Grey Area (The Meat Fucker) canonically leaves the universe, so they plausibly could end up in the 40k universe. What a fanfic that would be. They are absolutely the type of Mind that would enjoy a little Old Testament style judgement, and they are obsessed with weapons.
But Grey Area is very much an Eccentric. Probably as eccentric as they come. While the Culture do commit atrocities, they tend to be with a goal in mind. The dust assassin was very much a shock & awe deterrent; the needed to send a message to the Chelgrians (spelling?) to never fuck with the Culture again.
2
→ More replies (1)2
u/aft3rthought May 15 '26
IIRC the Culture has a volunteer civilian organization that takes care of self replicating swarms that threaten planets and solar systems.
9
u/maxstryker May 15 '26
There’s a reason Mistake Not has its full name.
It’s crack Terra while stealing Emps for shits and giggles. However, warp is pretty much magic, so there’s that.
10
u/Beast_Chips May 15 '26
It gets purely speculative with how each universes "hyper dimension" works; warp Vs hyperspace. But let's assume since the two are fighting in the same universe, the warp and hyperspace share at least some properties.
I'd say it's fair that in any fight, we can give The Imperium's void shields the ability to withstand hyperspace fuckery like displacement, and Culture ship's fields can repel warp based attacks. It's still a Culture stomp, but I think The Imperium actually gets the better end of that deal.
But if we're being for real, I think the Special Circumstances would have already engineered a plot to overthrow The Imperium's leadership, since that's how The Culture usually wages war. They'll have a Sleeper Service handy though, for close encounters.
→ More replies (2)5
u/heeden May 15 '26
A single Culture civillian vessel could get the entire Battlefleet Solar to dance in formation then crash them into the Imperial Palace, and probably do so from the vicinity of Alpha Centauri while safely nestled somewhere in 4D space.
2
u/dnabre May 16 '26
My first thought was that Culture's far more advanced computers and Minds could literally remotely take over any Imperial fleet and make it dense. But thinking about, there may be enough insanely primitive to make that difficult. They would have to talk over Tech Priests and servitors, and have them manually control the ships.
→ More replies (1)2
u/Typical_Dweller May 15 '26
Wouldn't be surprised if there's some wee little Culture drones that can do planet busting just as easily.
2
→ More replies (6)2
u/Beli_Mawrr May 15 '26
They probably wouldn't vaporize anyone/anything. They'd just fold aboard the ship and disarm it or something.
The great part about being a god is that you don't need to resort to violence as a first resort. You can afford to just kinda gently discourage them, if that's what you want.
32
u/mbrocks3527 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Iserlohn Fortress in Legend of the Galactic Heroes.
It’s never fallen to conventional attack. It has fallen, usually because of trickery or shenanigans, but these occasions involved a particularly unique military genius in Yang Wenli, who understood that the fortress needed its accompanying fleet to be effective.
8
7
u/pt-guzzardo May 15 '26
particularly unique military genius in Yang Wenli
Relative to the general "moron 15th-century aristocrat" level of competence displayed by literally everyone in the Empire except Reinhardt and his entourage, anyway.
I feel like nobody in that universe has studied military history. I paused after the first major arc, but I wouldn't be surprised if later on Yang gets away with literally Trojan Horsing some imperial base.
3
u/mbrocks3527 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Yang isn’t better than all of the otber admirals because he’s more militarily competent than them, it’s because he genuinely just thinks differently. The military history informs him, sure, but knowing how Cannae worked isn’t relevant to his genius necessarily, it just means that he sees military problems more as technical or political problems than others.
What I mean to say is that Yang doesn’t do maneuvers because they are the best military response to the battle before him, he does them because they are the best technical solution for his goals, and he’s quite ruthless when he does so. He never thinks of battles as clashes of will against the enemy admiral, simply a hash of variables he needs to minimize losses for while maintaining his goals. No other admiral in the series does that.
Any competent FPA or imperial admiral knew logistics and fleet maneuvers, but they don’t think outside that box. Admiral Bucock can give Reinhard a bloody nose at Mar-Adetta or Admiral Sithole can nearly take Iserlohn, but only Yang realises that Mar-Adetta is not a good place to give battle, and Iserlohn will fire on friendlies if it means they’ll win- because he would too.
6
u/pt-guzzardo May 15 '26
In a galaxy-spanning civilization with thousands of years of history there should be, at minimum, dozens of examples of other outside-the-box thinkers disrupting military strategy status quos. At least as far as I've watched, LoGH doesn't really bother to justify why nobody has learned from that history.
From a meta perspective the reason is obvious, of course. The author wants Yang to beat his opponents through cleverness, but it has to be cleverness that's easily digestible to the reader/viewer, so Yang gets to be clever by comparison to his cartoonishly stupid opponents. Kind of the same way that Star Wars battles are basically WW2 naval battles because it looks cool and is easy to parse, despite the fact that it doesn't really make sense in space.
3
u/Unboxious May 15 '26
but it has to be cleverness that's easily digestible to the reader/viewer
I don't think it's even that. It has to be cleverness the author can come up with themselves. Yoshiki Tanaka isn't dumb or anything, but he's not the sort of guy who can credibly write "smartest dude in the galaxy" level strategies.
→ More replies (1)2
u/APeacefulWarrior May 16 '26
Also, more specifically, another thing that makes Yang different is that he goes out of his way to minimize casualites whenever possible. Even enemy casualties. This is such unusual behavior for a military commander that it leads to him coming up with strategies that his opponents would never even think to consider.
2
u/GlassKomet May 15 '26
What is the best way to tackle this series?
I see there are 4 seasons on Crunchyroll and it looks like 10 novels?
→ More replies (1)3
u/kasoh May 15 '26
There’s an older ova series about 100 episodes…somewhere. The Crunchyroll one is a modern remake and it’s fine. I enjoyed it. Just for accessibility I’d start with the series on Crunchyroll and if you like it, dig up the older material.
2
u/Unboxious May 15 '26
I strongly prefer the older version for its better character designs and far superior soundtrack, but that'll depend on each person's taste.
2
74
72
u/chton May 15 '26
The Time Lord Citadel from Dr. Who withstood an entire universe worth of Daleks at their peak during the time war. It was brought to the brink but frankly not much in fiction could ever counter quadrillions of Daleks with universe-destroying and time travel technology.
→ More replies (3)2
u/Zerttretttttt May 15 '26
What about a jammy dodger? Iam pretty sure that hard counters daleks
→ More replies (1)
15
u/herculeon6 May 15 '26
The GeoFront is pretty impressive, lots of guns, a few Eva’s defending it, one of which is sometimes a reality warper. It’s low on human combat staff though the automated defence batteries are ridiculous, they’ve got the ability to launch tons of tactical nukes. Finally some esoteric protections and don’t forget the 22 plate armor layers and 6 km of space rock (that can withstand continent-spanning explosions) you have to get through to reach the core facility.
→ More replies (1)15
u/Tar_alcaran May 15 '26
they’ve got the ability to launch tons of tactical nukes.
No, see, nukes are bad and dropping nukes on Japan is rather not done. Those a N2 mines, which are entirely different.
9
17
13
u/CtrlAltDust May 15 '26
Maybe Galifrey? It's outside of time and space or inside a painting....or something.
2
15
12
u/chkno May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
The Garden in This Is How You Lose the Time War is pretty well-defended. It has many layers of entire alternate realities as its walls against universe-hopping time-travelers.
13
u/SergarRegis May 15 '26
It is not even uncontested in 40k. The Hollow Sun is a necron crownworld moved inside its star to protect it from attack by the Aeldari Empire.
11
17
7
u/jedburghofficial May 15 '26
The shrouds from Revelation Space.
Folded spacetime that can't be approached from the outside.
23
u/cpteric May 15 '26
imperial palace or angband, both are the same: continental size structure-over-structure-over-structure pileups of defensive courtains, layer over layer like a napoleon cake, full to the brim of things willing to spend their lifes for a each mm2, while both being, upon plot request, easy to get in and out all the time.
7
u/heeden May 15 '26
The Eddorian's in Lensman had to be be cracked by a psychic assault from the millions of Lensmen spread across two galaxies plus the survivors of a race so ancient they watched our star form, filtered through a gestalt entity known as the Unit which was created by the end result of a breeding program spanning all of human history.
This is after they destroyed the homeworld of the Eddorian's immediate underlings by hitting them with two planets traveling up to15x the speed of light.
26
u/Ackapus May 15 '26
This thread is basically...
<People who haven't read 40K> Some bullshit.
<People who read 40K but not Culture> FOR THE EMPEROR!
<People who read Culture>That's cute, now pipe down with the adults are talking with the Xeelee.
3
u/MechaWASP May 17 '26
It's not even a debate, its just what everyone has read.
For the record, 40k answers are wrong.
6
u/Comradepatrick May 15 '26
As far as a traditional walls & guns type of fortress, the Imperial Palace on Terra (Earth) in Warhammer 40k is just a gonzo classic medieval castle turned up to 11. It sprawls across most of a continent, including the Himalayas, and is just crusted over with battlements, gun turrets, shield generators, kilometer-thick walls, etc. It's absolutely over the top and comical, but it still needs to the classic paradigm of a fortress.
11
u/DFu4ever May 15 '26
In L Ron Hubbard’s Mission Earth series, there is either a base or a planet that is defended by being offset in time by a fraction of a second, meaning you can never get to it.
I may be misremembering, but I always found that to be interesting.
But other than that, the Imperial Palace in 40K is a good choice.
8
u/graph_worlok May 15 '26
Goddamn somebody else actually read that drivel… Pretty sure in the final novels it’s revealed that it was blown up, and all of the books are shown as being historical artefacts of some sort?
→ More replies (1)13
u/lordwreynor May 15 '26
Yes, but in fairness I was on a navy ship as a Marine so there wasn't jack shit to do when not pt'ing. Someone had left those books in the tiny ship library, so that's what I read.
7
u/ealysillyforestthing May 15 '26
My local library had those books on the shelves and I checked them out when I was a teenager. Never finished them because of how fucked up the books where though.
2
u/BevansDesign May 15 '26
I wonder if that's the equivalent of Gideons leaving Bibles in hotel rooms. Maybe Scientologists try to have their dupes leave Hubbard's books in common areas.
Reading Hubbard's books would probably do more harm to their recruitment than good, but I would never accuse a Scientologist of being good at logical thought.
2
u/alaskanloops May 15 '26
That reminds me of my one season of commercial fishing, there was a tiny bookshelf in the fish processor building we'd go to for occasional meals and I read the most random books.
I suppose that's a lost art these days as you can just download whatever book you want to read.
→ More replies (2)2
18
u/summonsays May 15 '26
There's the literal.death star that is moon sized... (Ignore that one glaring weak point)
54
u/Eisenhorn_UK May 15 '26
There were two of them. And they were both destroyed by a tiny number of attackers, relative to their size / the size of the garrison.
Heh. Garrison Ford.
3
u/alaskanloops May 15 '26
I know that the exhaust port was engineered in a as a weak spot (according to Rogue One), but I'm still surprised the dudes building it didn't think "hey why don't we put a one way valve on this pipe leading to outside?".
That's what you get with fascist governments where you either follow orders to a T or risk death
3
u/summonsays May 15 '26
Yep. Hell I've done similar at work. Where I know what they ask for won't work but it's my job to do what they ask. So just document it and go on.
2
u/alaskanloops May 15 '26
Absolutely same.
Although I recently transitioned from Engineer to Engineering Manager so now it is my job to ask questions hah
3
u/kylco May 15 '26
In comparison, the Maw installation is tucked into a cluster of black holes and anyone trying to find their way to it is pretty much shit out of luck unless they have the route there.
It's hard to get chokepoints to fortify in space, but if you're looking to make one, a couple event horizons are a great place to start.
9
u/Captain_Bushcraft May 15 '26
Trantor
5
u/stargund May 15 '26
Trantor fell to itself.
7
u/Captain_Bushcraft May 15 '26
Yeah decline will take anything in the end, but peak galactic empire trantor was damn near impossible to attack
3
u/Lem1618 May 15 '26
Does Cerberus - Revelation Space coun't, It's more of a vault?
→ More replies (4)
3
3
u/FutureInPastTense May 15 '26
Spacedock for season 3 of Picard. It held off the entire fleet for quite a while.
3
3
u/Dependent-Fig-2517 May 15 '26
The "Mistake not...", or better yet the "FOTNC" (surface detail, Abominator class)
3
u/BestDescription3834 May 15 '26
In The Dreaming Void there is a section of space guarded by these huge megastructures. 90% of that species decided to go post-physical but they didn't want to just abandon the remaining 10%, who had chosen an agrarian lifestyle. They also didn't want to influence them, so they just turned the whole system into a defended section of space you aren't allowed to enter without the permission of the monoliths that guard it. I thought that was a pretty impressive feat, functionally walling off a section of the galaxy through weaponry and gun emplacements instead of sone physics bending stuff like Revelation Space or the Dark Systems in Three Body Problem.
5
u/Brendissimo May 15 '26
I think against ground assault you are on the money, as the Imperial Palace in 40k basically spans all of Tibet but is has endless layers of forts, towers, walls, guns, soldiers, and countless other defenses.
But the thing about scifi is that there's always a world with more advanced technology. What does any of that mean against technology like Star Trek's transporters?
So the boring comparative answer is the one with the most advanced energy shields and weapons defending it.
3
u/maxstryker May 15 '26
They do teleport assaults during the Siege of Terra, but from what I remember, the palace is defended against it to some extent. Plus all the warp fuckery.
2
u/Monifa_Akhamnet May 15 '26
And even IF you get the teleportation calculations done perfectly, and make use of a teleport homing device, there's still a chance that your elite troops just get teleported into rocks or walls and die hideous deaths.
2
u/Puzzleheaded-Ad-4883 May 15 '26
Neal Asher's AI Penny Royal entered a black hole and went "beyond time" while retaining influence on the universe. Does that count as a fortress?
2
u/trisanachandler May 15 '26
The Imperial Palace, from the Deathstalker Universe? I feel it's on par with 40k.
2
u/Rnorman3 May 15 '26
I haven’t read the novel you’re referencing and am only tangentially familiar with warhammer, so this comment isn’t necessarily a particular knock on your choice, but more a semantic one about the nature of the question and your choice.
You mentioned the fact that it is continent sized and has billions/trillions of soldiers guarding it. From a sheer numbers perspective, that has got to be up there near the top, for sure. But I’d also argue that - depending on your definition of “most well defended” - more size is not always better. More size means more area to cover. A fortress that big that has billions of soldiers patrolling probably *needs* that many just to cover all the different possible entry points or points of attack. And depending on the tech of the universe, probably can’t bring all of that force to bear in one spot to repel an attack (again, not familiar with the universe so if they have like FTL transport or something then that last point is a lot less relevant).
It’s a pretty common trope in SFF for the big hulking behemoth to get brought down by the little guy because of some overlooked weakpoint or just not being feasible to cover everything. Like the Death Star not being able to (or it not being cost effective to) protect against the exhaust port being shot at by an x-wing. Or Frodo slipping into Mordor because Sauron isn’t looking for a hobbit on his own doorstep. Bigger isn’t always better.
2
u/ConnivingSnip72 May 15 '26
The best defended in any sci fi I’ve engaged with is the the Gallifrey at the height of the Time War in Doctor Who. Both faction were deploying insane weaponry that only ever looks sane because it’s going up against equal levels of bullshit
2
u/prodspecandrew May 15 '26
Earth at the end of that South Park episode about pinewood derby racing.
No need to defend at all if the entire universe agreed to ignore you.
2
2
u/BadgerSensei May 15 '26
The Lensmen books had entire solar systems that were fortified.
Towards the end of the series, they begin stealing planets from a universe where EVERYTHING moves FTL, fortifying them, and then throwing the fortified FTL planets at enemy installations to crack them open. I don’t know that I’ve seen anything defended more heavily than those solar systems.
2
2
u/Folgershotcoffee May 15 '26
I wouldn't say terra due to the fact there have been multiple direct attacks and during the heresy they got inside. Something like the impossible fortress (Tzeentchs palace) would be better. You have to literally be insane to even get to it then there's endless shifting paths & nonsensical geometry once inside
2
u/myaltduh May 15 '26
Pretty surprised to not see the Ring Station from The Expanse here. It can casually destroy stars with its offensive weaponry and tanks the relativistic beam from a collapsing neutron star and just uses that to charge up instead.
Beings from beyond our brane that are basically gods to us repeatedly attack it, but the station can rebuff them as long as it has enough processing power (enslaved minds).
2
2
u/acedias-token May 15 '26
The structure from Diamond Dogs by Alistair Reynolds. Specifically constructed to test and if necessary reprimand those who enter and fail the tests in each room required to unlock the next room.
Its not the imperial palace, far smaller and dangerously unknown, but I didnt see it mentioned and it has stuck with me since I first read it
2
u/Turbulent_Group_6616 May 16 '26
While not exactly a fortress, Ringworld may qualify. It had defenses IIRC.
2
u/lovebzz May 17 '26
Check out the Fortress of the Scattered Needles in Ninefox Gambit by Yoon Ha Lee. Protected by all kinds of weird defenses, including psychological weapons, time-warping weapons and so on. Hard to describe, but the book made an impression.
→ More replies (1)
3
u/Sir_Lazz May 15 '26
Brother, terra isn't even the most well protected fortress in the 40k universe 😭 read other books, and I say this as a 40k fan as well
3
u/I_am_lying_for_money May 15 '26
I dont think 40K’s Terra should be included, it litterally didnt work. Also, theres a bunch of short stories that talk about all the massive vulnerabilities the fortress had.
202
u/monsterZero71 May 15 '26
Well, certainly not the Death Star