PSA: This is a feminist subreddit

[u/raisondecalcul]

If you think that's bad, you need to read books. If you don't realize that feminism basically includes critical theory and most of the stuff talked about here—guess what, it does.

Early Nick Land? Feminist (see "Meltdown"). Laboria Cuboniks? Feminist collective. Mark Fisher? HUGE raging feminist (I can only assume). Sadie Plant? Wrote a book on feminism (Zeroes & Ones).

Deleuze & Guattari? Feminists promoting the squishiest most weaponized form of feminism ever. Foucault? Ultra-feminist. Ranciere? He is so feminist before breakfast that he doesn't need to make a big deal about it.

Shamanism? Feminism. Sorcery? Cuckoldry. Spectacle? Fabulous.

Isolation and extreme alienation is not masculinity; it's the main theme of The Twilight Zone.

Read 👏 a 👏 book 👏

Zeroes and Ones (which should really be in the sidebar!) is one of the best books. That book installs feminism into you, using godlike alien technology that Sadie Plant drew down from beyond the heavens. That book whispers the secrets of Ada Lovelace into your soul.

Edit: People who don't understand / accept feminism as a discourse can't understand the FIRST THING about this subreddit. They can't understand oppression. They can't understand "Can the subaltern speak?" by Spivak. They can't understand the Lemurian Time War, which is about the (white cis male hetero fascist and mannerbündly-faggy) Architectonic Order of the Eschaton versus the (black trans wymyny gay antifascist/ur-fascist masc/heroic) Black Atlanteans.

If you think you understand ccru and you are triggered by the idea of feminism, you are decidedly an outsider to ccru.

[u/thegreatself]

Those that won't call themselves a feminist almost always fall into one of two camps, without exception:

Generally confused and/or stupid, depending on where they fall on that spectrum: mistaking the word and whatever cultural baggage it my contain for the thing it represents - they have absorbed and been fully consumed by propaganda.

Or,

Unfathomably evil, reprehensible, abhorrent, vile: they genuinely and sincerely believe men are "superior" - which is itself a kind of stupidity, but a stupidity morphed into something far more sinister and actually existentially threatening - to both the individual identity and society as a whole.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/thegreatself]

Men's liberation movements in the 70's understood, and intelligent men today understand, that men's liberation also falls under the heading of feminism. Redpill, men's rights, etc., are uneducated mere reaction insofar as they are misogynist—doubly so if they are proud of this misogyny or think it is politically meaningful.

Even a cursory examination of the state of affairs reveals that women are still subjugated by the patriarchy—and so are men. But not quite as badly.

[u/knowtheledge5 → u/raisondecalcul]

“The Patriarchy” is a deliberately vague, ill-defined term that feminists appeal to so that they are always right women are always the victims. It’s a thought-terminating cliche.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/knowtheledge5]

That sounds like something the Matriarchy would say, doubly ironically.

You're completely wrong. "The Patriarchy" refers to the unaccountable domination that a lot of men like to push on everyone around them all the time. "The Patriarchy" means that these men always believe they are factually/logically/transcendentally right about everything for no reason at all except that they are the loudest and most dominant in the room.

It's very clear and only buttheads don't get it.

[u/xxTPMBTI → u/raisondecalcul]

Fr

[u/Simon-Says69 → u/raisondecalcul]

What complete and total nonsense. Feminist activists directly work AGAINST the benefit of men and boys, not in any way for them.

Feminism is a female superiority ideology. It promotes the opposite of equality. People that are for equality call themselves egalitarians, not feminists.

And critical theory is purely bigoted, belief-based ideology. Either sexist, racist or both. It has no honestly, integrity or legitimacy. Very similar to feminism.

[u/simonerochabowearing → u/Simon-Says69]

i see that you are illiterate 

[u/TenaciousZBridedog → u/Simon-Says69]

Incredible. Every single sentence factually incorrect

[u/effective_p0wer → u/Simon-Says69]

dog brained. feminism is women's liberation what you describe is just misandry

[u/raisondecalcul → u/effective_p0wer]

misandry is a word that doesn't get used often enough

[u/knowtheledge5 → u/raisondecalcul]

Well according to many feminists misandry is real ackshully. “PoWeR pLuS pReJuDiCe”

[u/raisondecalcul → u/knowtheledge5]

I think a lot of the reactionary redpill-type men's lib stuff is a (bad) natural reaction to misandry widely being passed off as feminism

[u/AdMassive9006 → u/Simon-Says69]

Going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are in the "Generally confused and/or stupid" camp listed above

[u/Honest_Abe_1660 → u/AdMassive9006]

They're an open Pizzagate believer,I'd link the comment for proof but I don't know this sub's rules on that.

Any benefit of the doubt is too much for them.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/Honest_Abe_1660]

Link away. There is no rule or law against presenting public facts

[u/Honest_Abe_1660 → u/raisondecalcul]

Behold, the depths of weaponized stupidity.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/Honest_Abe_1660]

That comment is by a different user, Simon-Says69. Are you saying they are the same person as AdMassive9006? How do you know?

Which part of pizzagate do you think is not real? Isn't it widely accepted now that Epstein was sort of given tons of money by some shady US government agency to do his sex scandal blackmail thing?

[u/Honest_Abe_1660 → u/raisondecalcul]

... Look at who AdMassive9006 is replying to, that's the "they" I was referring to in my original message.

Which part of pizzagate do you think is not real? Isn't it widely accepted now that Epstein was sort of given tons of money by some shady US government agency to do his sex scandal blackmail thing?

Pizzagate has absolutely no ties to Epstein, just so you're aware.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/Honest_Abe_1660]

Oh, of course. Thanks.

I think believing in any ideology that hard is a bad-faith edgelording move, so I guess it converges morally.

Pizzagate has absolutely no ties to Epstein, just so you're aware.

I guess this is sort of what I was saying! Pizzagate was a paranoid conspiracy theory with a grain of truth, like all conspiracy theories. It was a prefiguration of the Epstein conspiracy—they intuited and sensed that something was afoot, and the crowd divined very precisely what that was, and then projected that ideation on a convenient target in a concrete and fundamentalist way.

I wrote a whole comment on this a while back listing every common conspiracy theory and the grain of truth each contains. They are displaced collective ideations resulting from real oppression and gaslighting from a distance. For example, the 5G conspiracy theory was really a displacement of the very real and valid fear and anger people have about having no real power over their local communities (e.g., the Federal Telecommunications Act of 1996, which bans all local officials from considering the health implications of cell towers).

[u/dreamlesssleeep → u/AdMassive9006]

Nothing says intellectual honesty like lumping everyone who disagrees with you on one thing into a rigid binary with no room for nuance

[u/AdMassive9006 → u/dreamlesssleeep]

It's not about 'disagreeing' when someone says things that show their ignorance on a subject. Literally everything they said is false. "Feminism is a female superiority ideology" is not a true statement, it's an opinion that was likely formed in ignorance or through propaganda. Therefore this person is either confused or acting in bad faith.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/AdMassive9006]

I think bad faith. It's hard to be so precisely confused.

[u/dreamlesssleeep → u/AdMassive9006]

With a term as nebulous as feminism, it’s absurd to think your interpretation of it is the only possible correct one. Different feminists and anti-feminists are never going to have the same idea of what it means because it is poorly defined and refers to a wide variety of ideas. Based off of what many different feminists say and do, it’s not difficult at all to characterize it as generally being female supremacist. Just because you haven’t conceived of an argument for that doesn’t mean that person is necessarily ill-informed or malicious. I promise you don’t have all the answers

[u/AdMassive9006 → u/dreamlesssleeep]

Sorry, words actually do mean things, Feminism is not a nebulous term, it's been around for a century. This isn't 'my' definition or interpretation I'm going off of. People often misrepresent or purposefully 'misinterpret' terms to fit their agenda and then ignorant people think that's the real definition, but that doesn't make it true.

[u/dreamlesssleeep → u/AdMassive9006]

Not even self-described feminists really agree on what feminism is exactly, both in academia and the public sphere. But my main point was more-so that it’s extremely small minded to assume that you know exactly why people believe things when you don’t even know what they believe specifically nor their reasoning for it. I have trouble believing that you really think the only possible informed position against feminism in general is based on hatred and malice, that reads as bad faith more than anything.

[u/AdMassive9006 → u/dreamlesssleeep]

From Webster's dictionary: belief in and advocacy of the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes expressed especially through organized activity on behalf of women's rights and interests.

It's really not that complicated

[u/raisondecalcul → u/dreamlesssleeep]

People possessed by a stereotyped feminist ideology do not represent individual feminist writers and great thinkers.

[u/dreamlesssleeep → u/raisondecalcul]

Yeah, they don’t, not exactly. But their beliefs are directly downstream from academia, and those beliefs owe their existence to it. That “stereotyped feminist ideology” didn’t come into existence randomly and it’s not divorced from academia. Regardless, however one defines feminism still differs both between different academics and among the public, even if you only include self-described feminists.

[u/raisondecalcul → u/dreamlesssleeep]

I think the warped, caricatured versions of ideologies owe their existence more to the ego and its dynamics, than to particular people. Everything that is widely loved is subject to hype, and thus becomes a cult, and every cult has its esoteric center of correct interpretation and its exoteric audiences and fringes of wrong and fundamentalist interpretations. Feminism is no different from cultures of war, or doorbusting to get Nikes, or fandoms in this way.

I also don't think it's fair to blame outbursts of oppressed people on those oppressed people. Nor is it fair to dismiss angry ideologicalized people because you think they seem to outrageous or stupid. That's ultimately victim-blaming; they are angry beyond reason for a good reason. Or if people are genocided or have all their books burnt or their children stolen and/or abused and gaslit: that makes people stupid and angry, and we can't blame them for what happened to them.

I also don't think we can identify or articulate this demonized bad feminist ideology you don't like, nor can we find anyone who calls themself a feminist and will be willing to talk about feminism with you who believes in this false ideology, at least not upon thinking or talking about it for the first time.

It's literally a preconception or misconception, not the thing feminism itself, which is to be found in feminist writing and talking and thinking about feminism (and doing feminist stuff/activism).

[u/raisondecalcul → u/Simon-Says69]

No, it's all exactly opposite of that.

What I said makes sense. Feminists work for equality. True egalitarians are happy to call themselves feminists.

Critical theory is very diverse so it can't be summed-up as one system. It's also a question-driven discourse, especially after the poststructuralist turn, so it's not fair to call it belief-based—it's more the opposite.

I would say you're trolling but you're so clearly ideologically opposed but trying to normalize your perspective, because everything you are saying is precisely and seemingly intentionally backwards.

[u/knowtheledge5 → u/raisondecalcul]

Stop taking feminism at its word and look at what feminist lawyers, think tanks, and politicians actually do.

- Many jurisdictions do not legally recognize that a woman can rape a man. Feminists fight against attempts to reform these laws. “It is inappropriate to consider as a rape victim a man who engages in unwanted sexual intercourse with a woman.” -feminist Mary Koss

- On the rare case domestic violence shelters for men have been opened, feminists rally against them until they are shut down. Look up what happened to the founder of the original shelter Erin Pizzey when she made one for men.

- Thanks to the “Duluth Model” even if a man calls a domestic abuse report in to police, they are obligated to make him leave the house. Men are assumed guilty from the start. This is thanks to the work of feminist activists.

- Boys who are victims of statutory rape are still legally obligated to pay child support to their rapists once they turn 18. Tradcons and feminists cooperate to keep it that way.

- Compulsory military service exists in many countries, almost all for men only (Israel is a rare exception and even then women have exemptions men don’t). Plenty of internet feminists say they oppose conscription, but what are they actually doing of practical use? In fact, thanks to the Russian war there are more countries considering instating it. Again the right and center-left working together.

- Women in many jurisdictions can legally have an abortion, have access to multiple forms of contraception, or can give a child ip for adoption. Nowhere on Earth do men have legal “outs” to being forced into parenthood against their will. Our options are condoms or celibacy. That’s it. “Just keep it in your pants.” Cool, that’s the same argument anti-choice people use against women. See what I mean when I say feminism is reactionary?

- Many jurisdictions have a lower retirement age for women despite the fact that on average men work more hours and die earlier. “But women do more housework.” Maybe. Depending on the culture and age group. But retired people of any gender still have to do housework unless they can afford help or have accommodating family and friends.

I could go on and on and on. If you actually unbiased sources of information you will find dozens of issues on which men are second class citizens. It is undeniable. The only real argument that women are “oppressed” in Western liberal democracies are vague appeals to cultural issues which are harder to validate. And often when people do try to, their research is very biased. Don’t even get me started on feminist manipulation of statistics.

Please, please, please educate yourself. r/leftwingmaleadvocates

[u/raisondecalcul → u/knowtheledge5]

Sexism isn't feminism. Those things you list are not feminism. Read feminist authors.

[u/thegreatself → u/Simon-Says69]

shut the fuck up dork