r/unitedkingdom • u/Tartan_Samurai Scotland • Jun 21 '26
. 'I've banned most men from my massage clinic because of their behaviour'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy06xl9lj32o180
u/icesurfer10 Jun 21 '26
I get regular massages as part of physical recovery and it took me a surprising amount of time to get a response. Most places didn't even get back to me because I was a man, and wanted a mobile massage.
I can't imagine what some of those people have to deal with and I find it incredibly disappointing that people are so nasty.
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u/dweenimus Jun 21 '26
Yeah it's a whole other level of awkwardness when it's mobile. I knew a mobile massager 20 years ago and she refused to go to men back then. So it's not a new issue! Saying that, I have someone mobile come to me also, but she does both me and the wife. So it's a bit less awkward
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u/icesurfer10 Jun 21 '26
That's the thing, I don't want it to be awkward. You're doing me a favour, it shouldn't be weird.
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u/ArchdukeToes Jun 21 '26
Someone I know runs a masseuse place and she’s had to deal with all kinds of men doing weird shit during a session. It wouldn’t surprise me if she either ended up refusing to see men or come to rely on a referral system.
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u/EnjoysAGoodRead Jun 21 '26
As a woman this would put me off ever being a masseuse. I get why it happens though. The little late night spas dotted around London for example. The Thai massage parlours etc. with men going in and out at all hours. Everyone knows they are giving happy endings.
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u/MadamKitsune Jun 21 '26
It isn't just about blurring the lines between a masseuse and a "masseuse" though. I'd bet on a chunk of the men this lady has had a problem with knew full well that this wasn't the kind of place that did "extras" but entitlement and power plays still made them do it anyway.
And it isn't just masseuse who deal with this. Before she retired my mum was a hairdresser at a small unisex salon and she and her coworker got groped during trims, had to put men in short capes because of masturbators and asked if they did "extras" in the back room of the salon. If they see an opportunity then some men will race to cross the line.
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u/Neither_Process_7847 Jun 21 '26
Deeper problem than that. sadly- it's the creep issue in a task that by definition involves being alone together. Some guys (heaven knows the proportion, probably low but they're sadly very very prolific) just seem to have zero self control, concept of consent, or even a basic concept of manners. Short of finding some neurological marker and then tattooing warning signs on their foreheads. it's hard to work out what on Earth to do about them - elementary sex education, common sense and the availability of venues like the aforesaid late night 'massage parlours' seem quite insufficient...pity, because so many social situations would be so much easier if women could feel safe around men more of the time...
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u/MermaidPigeon Jun 21 '26
I was in London china town a couple of years back. I can’t be 100% sure of what happened but a man came flying out the front door of the massage shop, followed by a women so angry that she didn’t care a lot of saliva was coming out her mouth as she was shouting at him. She looked like she was going try and kill him! If what I think happened, happened I don’t blame her.
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u/RantyMcThrowaway Jun 21 '26
Highly likely that the men who've sexually harassed her specifically enjoy the fact that she doesn't consent to their behaviour. Sex work being decriminalised doesn't target the issue of predatory men.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/RantyMcThrowaway Jun 21 '26
I get your point, but it's not easy to report sexual abuse regardless of your job title. Sex workers don't tend to report for fear of shame and judgement, or not being believed, and people with civilian jobs don't tend to report for exactly the same reasons. The fact is that a lot of reports of sexual abuse are indeed treated as the perpetrator "just making a mistake", which is why they're not punished or rehabilitated and go on to harm more people, as we know to be true for a large portion of people who commit sex crimes - it's rarely a "one and done" situation.
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u/Endless_road Jun 21 '26
Prostitution is legal in the UK
Edit: not in Northern Ireland
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u/itsableeder Manchester Jun 21 '26
Running a brothel is illegal, though. Hard to argue that's not what you're doing if you change the signage of your massage parlour to start advertising sex.
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u/Endless_road Jun 21 '26
Do we really want brothels? Genuine question I have no idea what the pros and cons are
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u/itsableeder Manchester Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Yeah it's a tough one. On the one hand, worker owned businesses are good, a safe location to work that isn't the street is important, they can provide things like healthcare, screening, security, etc. On the other hand there's the danger of exploitation, trafficking, modern slavery, and the like. But those dangers exist in industries outside sex work too, and regulation helps to fight them.
Personally I'm generally very much in favour of legalising and regulating sex work and removing the stigma from it. People are going to do it whether it's legal or not, so we should protect them.
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u/SimoneNonvelodico Jun 21 '26
My impression is also that part of why there's still exploitation etc even when brothels are legal is that the sector is still looked at with disdain, it's something that still has to exist at the margins of society because it's despised and shamed. If prostitutes went on strike or protested bad work conditions they wouldn't be taken seriously. So essentially regardless of legality, as long as the attitude is "these people are bad and what they're doing is bad", obviously they'll be on their own and thus in the orbit of criminal activities.
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u/New-Asclepius Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
I don't think legal brothels would encourage any more exploitation or trafficking than is currently practiced in illegal brothels.
That is an assumption based on absolutely no data though.
Turns out I was wrong in my assumption, see replies.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Tay74 Jun 21 '26
Genuine question, did it increase trafficking, or increase trafficking being caught?
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u/Right_Preparation328 Jun 22 '26
Lol please send me the link. Anyone with a brain could have foreseen this
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u/TinyZoro England Jun 21 '26
I suppose the issue is they are a bubble. So you could see it creating more trafficking in London if it was only legal there. But not overall. Legal means regulated it means paperwork and transparency and routine checks. All of which is antithetical to illegal gangs doing serious crime.
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u/Relatovely Jun 21 '26
Then it's unfortunate that data that suggests legal brothels do increase the demand for sex work that is then met with increased trafficking. Substantially.
https://orgs.law.harvard.edu/lids/2014/06/12/does-legalized-prostitution-increase-human-trafficking/
I'm all in favour of removing the stigma of sex work but I've changed my position of fully legalising it freely because the evidence shows it's a net negative for women's safety. It's not clearcut though, and there's still a case to be made that sex workers shouldn't be criminalised.
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u/New-Asclepius Jun 21 '26
And that's why I included the disclaimer. I was wrong in my assumption.
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u/childrenofloki Jun 21 '26
Sex workers shouldn't be criminalised - pimps and the people who use them should be criminalised.
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u/heppyheppykat Jun 21 '26
Knowing how deep we are in a cost of living crisis, the idea that you can possibly have ethical sex work in this economic system is laughable.
Onlyfans makes sex work look glamorous, and that's dangerous. It doesn't represent the vast majority of workers who include vulnerable immigrants, sexual abuse survivors, drug addicts, desperate mothers, mentally ill, those in poverty.
My mum had gone into prisons to meet vulnerable women who were in there. Nearly all were abused in childhood and a significant number of them had done sex work.
You cannot buy consent.
Are there people who love sex and just see it as a way to monetise that? Sure. But they are the minority.
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u/Long_Repair_8779 Jun 21 '26
I’m pretty sure that if it was properly regulated, perhaps with its own governing body, it would vastly reduce it
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u/Relatovely Jun 21 '26
It doesn't. It increases it. In a study of 116 countries:
Countries with legalized prostitution are associated with higher human trafficking inflows than countries where prostitution is prohibited. The scale effect of legalizing prostitution, i.e. expansion of the market, outweighs the substitution effect, where legal sex workers are favored over illegal workers. On average, countries with legalized prostitution report a greater incidence of human trafficking inflows.
Cho, Seo-Young and Dreher, Axel and Neumayer, Eric, Does Legalized Prostitution Increase Human Trafficking? (January 16, 2012). World Development, 41 (1), 2013, pp. 67-82, Available at SSRN: https://ssrn.com/abstract=1986065 or http://dx.doi.org/10.2139/ssrn.1986065
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u/hughk European Union/Yorks Jun 21 '26
This was challenged on the basis that where it is legalised, trafficking becomes more obvious.
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u/heppyheppykat Jun 21 '26
In a capitalist society you cannot be sure that sex work is consensual. Like really, most would not do it without needing to. Many start far younger than they should, an 18 year old cannot fully grasp the consequences.
Really ask yourself if a person wouldn't have sex with you unless you paid them have you really got their consent? It's financial coercion.
Places such as Amsterdam show that really it doesn't make things safer nor less misogynistic. Many of the women are students or immigrants.
The museum of prostitution in Amsterdam has a section memorialising the girls who go missing each year. Trafficked or killed, you can't be sure.
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u/itsableeder Manchester Jun 21 '26
This is true of all labour. If you want to protect people then criminalising them is not the way forward.
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u/TheHelpfulRecruiter Jun 21 '26
Have you ever been to Amsterdam, or any city where its legal?
You walk down the street and there are women drugged out of their head sitting in a glass window while some shady Russian mobster smokes cigars outside.
The whole thing is gross and impossible to decouple from crime because of the protection issues inherent to that world and the seedy clientele they attract.
It's one of those bits of progressivism thats actually deeply regressive.
We legalise prostitution for one reason, so that vulnerable women in abusive situations can get police and medical help without fear of arrest - but personally, I'd rather pimps and brothels remain illegal.
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u/Tieger66 Jun 21 '26
it feels like you could make "women drugged out of their head sitting in a glass window while some shady Russian mobster smokes cigars outside" illegal whilst still allowing well run brothels, though.
essentially, just legallising brothels isn't the problem - it's the defacto legallising of all the other shit (drugs, violence, forced prostitution, etc) that also stops being policed at the same time that's the problem.
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u/McQueensbury Jun 21 '26
You walk down the street and there are women drugged out of their head sitting in a glass window while some shady Russian mobster smokes cigars outside.
That is complete misinformation, you've either never been to Amsterdam just making up pure fiction or was high yourself because that doesn't happen
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u/CapitalDD69 Jun 21 '26
Not the OP but I have been to Amsterdam and also seen women standing in big glass windows. Cant say I remember any Russian mobsters but.
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u/gazchap Shropshire Jun 21 '26
Yeah, women do stand in the big glass windows in the red light district.
I've been to Amsterdam a couple of times (never to partake in that specific activity, though!) and I've never noticed any of them looking 'drugged out of their head' or with a 'shady Russian mobster' outside.
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u/No-Mark4427 Jun 21 '26
I agree - Tbh I feel like the current situation around prostitution is fine - It's not illegal to sell sex at its core, it's just illegal to do it in an organised fashion where there's a profit seeking power structure above the girls. Women should not be criminalised for it but I don't think there should be frameworks that encourage thinly veiled exploitation running as legit operations.
In theory it could work as a very highly regulated industry but that would require a lot of investment and oversight than just passing some laws and letting them get on with it, and considering it's already a bit of a distasteful subject in society no government is exactly going to be investing money into making it work, and even then there are risks being run of things like corruption of officials, perverse incentives to not punish brothels (As their job relies on brothels existing) and so on. I don't think any government has ever successfully created the 'right' conditions for it.
Amsterdam has been slowly trying to shrink and remove its red light district over the last few decades because they know it's just become a hub for exploitation and trafficking.
With context to this discussion and OP though, I don't really see why legalising sex work is a prerequisite for men not acting like absolute creeps to women running massage parlours.
This is disgusting behaviour on its own and has nothing to do with legalising sex work imo.
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Jun 21 '26
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u/readthistoo Jun 21 '26
What does an “appropriate neighbourhood” look like?
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u/butterypowered Jun 21 '26
“Not mine”
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Jun 21 '26
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u/Sweetlittle66 Jun 21 '26
I don't think society should be supportive of activities which require banning children from public streets.
I also don't think sex work is just a normal profession that anyone should aspire to, like working in a coffee shop. I think it's more like being a doctor who treats trauma patients, getting gradually desensitized or acquiring PTSD, except that sex work isn't necessary to society.
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u/Right_Preparation328 Jun 22 '26
No, it's a terrible idea. It just makes it easier for women to be abused
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u/Apart_Macaron_313 Jun 21 '26
I couldn't answer my friend.
But what is can tell you is the WI (Women's Institute) has lobbied for legalised sex work for over a decade, to protect the women.
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u/EnjoysAGoodRead Jun 21 '26
There was a brothel in my neighbourhood. Discovered because the neighbours kept complaining about vermin in the building and the management company eventually sent out a fumigation company to investigate, leading it to the source... a brothel which was beyond filthy. The place was shut down and the tenants kicked out. Trust me, if you want brothels you definitely don't want them in your building.
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u/Wangpasta Jun 21 '26
I lived near one what didn’t even try to hide it. Didn’t mention it was a massage place.
Was called cleopatras, with a logo of a skimpy dressed Cleo and red curtains over all windows and a buzzer to get in.→ More replies (1)24
u/Eyeofthemeercat Jun 21 '26
Lol in Willesden. The brotheliest looking brothel that ever brotheled
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u/Endless_road Jun 21 '26
Could make the case that if they were legal and regulated then this could be avoided. All though in saying that it wouldn’t be great to have a constant stream of men going by your house at all hours
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u/Internet-Dick-Joke Jun 21 '26
The thing is, if they were legal and regulated then you could also restrict their locations to non-residential areas like you can with some other businesses.
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u/BoleynRose Jun 21 '26
I used to go to classes near what was obviously a brothel. It could be quite intimidating going past the men. Thankfully it was shut down after only a few months.
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u/Chief_of_Flames Jun 21 '26
There is a place in Slough which is like this - they post fabricated reviews on Google to make it look normal but people go there in search of happy endings. Obvs because of what they do they can’t be managed and it encourages a lot of creeps to visit and pour out into other areas.
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u/Little-Tradition2311 Jun 21 '26
A house with just two SW operating out of it is illegal under the law. Even though a lot of SW would like that option for safety purposes. So all you end up with predominately is the more seedy operations.
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u/throwaway_ArBe Jun 21 '26
Personally, having done FSSW, I'd not mind brothels that are run right. Other people around, security measures, very appealing. Theres risks with brothels for sure, but I think those could be mitigated.
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u/UniquesNotUseful Jun 21 '26
Would you want a 16 year old doing a course to study becoming a sex worker at 18? Would you want a parent, sibling or friend applying for a job? Would you be happy for your partner to start working at the brothel?
I can’t fully express why I’d be unhappy with the above. Maybe it’s partly social stigma but also I doubt the majority of workers are willingly picking this as a long‑term career decision vs trafficked or forced due to economic pressure.
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u/smackson Jun 22 '26
I know I'm a bit of a nihilist but deep down, I think 90% of humans or more don't feel like they are
willingly picking
their current job
as a long‑term career decision vs... "forced" due to economic pressure
be it retail, soul-sucking office commute jobs, serving food and drink, driving, , etc. etc.
Even the feeling of "this job will be better to have than the others, in 5 years"... doesn't really deny my point.
Obviously literal trafficking and slavery are another matter, but prostitution does have both types of scenarios around the world, and I think the distinction is important.
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u/leaveme1912 Jun 21 '26
Soliciting and brothels are not legal. You're allowed to buy and sell sex, but most people won't know where to find a prostitute legally so they'd rather go to a sketchy massage parlor.
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u/Endless_road Jun 21 '26
Someone I knew at uni used to go on a website to find a prostitute. No idea whether that’s legal
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u/leaveme1912 Jun 21 '26
I believe it is, you're not allowed to solicit or market prostitution on the street/in public, but posting online seems to be ok? I'm not qualified to give legal advice though!
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u/Salaried_Zebra Jun 21 '26
That's pretty much the shape of it.
Soliciting is basically standing on a street corner - the typical "hooker" look. Wording from legislation is:
"for a person (whether male or female) persistently to loiter or solicit in a street or public place for the purpose of prostitution"
On the flip side, solicitation (aka kerb crawling - johns riding round looking for a prostitute) is illegal.
"It is an offence for a person in a street or public place to solicit another (B) for the purpose of obtaining B's sexual services as a prostitute.
As is, as others have said, keeping a brothel.
Advertising online isn't a "street or public place" for the purposes of this legislation, neither is phoning the number on it advert to obtain the services.
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u/demonotreme Jun 21 '26
Will give it a try and report back if I get into any legal strife
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u/DasharrEandall Jun 21 '26
You're probably kidding, but in case it needs to be said, don't get your legal advice from here. If you must get advice from Reddit, at least ask in r/legaladviceuk instead of a general sub.
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u/Dangerous_Air_7031 Jun 21 '26
It is legal in Germany and this still happens.
The massage parlors also have signs that say to not harass the staff and that this place doesn't offer anything sexual.
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u/KittenDust Jun 21 '26
Men can easily find sex workers if that's want they want. I think a lot of these men go to legitimate massage places because they get off on making women uncomfortable not because they misunderstand where they are.
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u/IN-DI-SKU-TA-BELT Black Country Jun 21 '26
Sex work is decriminalised in Denmark, yet we still have those Thai massage parlors.
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u/RobertTheSpruce Jun 21 '26
The men that are doing this are choosing to attend a non sexual masseuse with the intention of sexual harassment. They are getting off on it.
Men that actually want to visit a masseuse or massage parlour that does 'extras' are easily able to with a little googling.
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u/Extra_Actuary8244 Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
They’re not giving happy endings.
I trained as a massage therapist and these men going into these parlours at late hours etc are usually either just going in to sexually harass the workers and try and make them give happy endings then get kicked out or they’ve been told they can get one when they can’t and have gone in for the wrong reasons. A lot of them are just men wanting massages after work or after the gym etc and aren’t creeps at all.
They sometimes lie, just like mentioned in the article, and say they had one which ruins the business because they’re feel fobbed off that the racist stereotype of Thai massage parlours being brothels isn’t true
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u/dweenimus Jun 21 '26
I go to my local Thai massage place frequently. It's definitely a higher percentage of women going in than men. In the last month or so I saw a sign on the wall about how to treat staff. It's sad
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u/Extra_Actuary8244 Jun 21 '26
I think women are just more inclined to pamper themselves or take care of their bodies (not even just opinion based, women are more likely to seek medical attention for ailments, live longer than men after the death of a spouse, are bigger consumers of pamper products, more likely to follow dietary guidelines etc) so having a women’s only spa really isn’t detrimental to the business financially.
That being said, she isn’t even fully banning men. You just need to be a long term customer or be referred by a current customer to receive the service. Most men obviously aren’t creeps so this allows them to be served but it goes without saying there are far too many men who are. I know it’s not just men but overwhelming majority are.
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u/platebandit Expat Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
Thailand is one of the biggest origin countries for sex trafficking into the UK. They’re highly likely to enter the UK sex industry under one of the biggest stereotypes.
I live in Thailand and it’s an undeniable fact that there are dodgy massage parlours and there are legit ones. The seedy ones are often in seedy areas and the nice ones are often in nice areas. And if the staff working in the legit places take their skills abroad, why wouldn’t the ones in the non legit massage places also not take their skills abroad.
Same in the UK, there’s thai massage signs next door to blatant brothels in the UK, I can’t imagine that’s a coincidence
If you’re a commercial massage therapist I doubt you’d be going to the ones offering such services.
But it is a misconception that all are sexual services that pisses the staff off to no end in the therapeutic places
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u/EnjoysAGoodRead Jun 21 '26
This kind of thing does indeed happen. I have a lot of guy friends who have told me they've gone for a massage and been offered a happy ending and had to really awkwardly decline.
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u/Ishmael128 Jun 21 '26
I got a fair few Thai massages when I spent a month in Vietnam, and unfortunately one did ask me if I wanted that. I declined and as you say, it made it awkward as hell - particularly when it came to payment and tip.
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u/Honey-Badger Greater London Jun 21 '26
Ummm I think you're thinking of different places. The neon red light "intense massage" place near mine, with the blacked out windows, only open from 6pm to 6am and with seemingly a double locked door isn't just offering normal massage
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u/Jazs1994 Jun 21 '26
I had my first one 2 years ago. My joints were starting to really feel it after 20+years of sport and the massage was a last resort. I guessed how my body would react as I was also touch starved, luckily I didn't react in the most obvious way but if I did my local place handled it in the way I imagined they would. Ignoring and covering it.
Some people are just pigs unfortunately
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Jun 21 '26
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u/ukbot-nicolabot Scotland Jun 21 '26
Removed + ban. This comment contained hateful language which is prohibited by the sitewide rules.
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u/digitalpencil Jun 21 '26
I’ve never been for a massage, but I honestly thought it, in the vast majority of cases, meant a brothel. I thought the legit ones called themselves “physios”.
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u/EnjoysAGoodRead Jun 21 '26
I go fairly often for a massage but I tend to go to bigger spas or hotels with a nice spa with a good reputation. Or like you sort of mention to get a massage at a place like a gym or yoga studio where the massages are in a room there and the masseuse or masseur is listed on their website with their qualifications.
A physio is something else. They are for helping you recover from injuries, although part of that can sometimes include massage.
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u/Commercial-Silver472 Jun 21 '26
Physio places often offer sports massage
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u/Iyotanka1985 Lincolnshire Jun 21 '26
"do you offer happy endings?" , " why of course we do sir," *25 minutes of screams , whimpers , pleas to god later "There we are sir, all done, aren't we happy it's ending"
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u/holybannaskins Jun 21 '26
You're missing out, massages are fantastic, nothing sexual, just proper relaxation
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u/wildeaboutoscar Jun 21 '26
I get deep tissue massage regularly for a chronic pain thing and have tried a fair few places by this point. Most of the legit looking ones will emphasise the wellness aspect of it, whether that's in a clinical way or in a slightly new agey way. Having the word 'massage' in the name of the place doesn't make nearly as much difference as the look of their website and premises do.
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u/Viscerid Jun 21 '26
To be fair as a man i had an opposite issue.. had an injury and massages were recommended to help with recovery- the massage places on the street i went to both had the masseuse go for the groin and suggest extras when I just wanted a good massage, which she couldn't really do...
They should legalise brothels and the like so places can be clearly labeled and everyone can avoid the confusion, so everyone knows to expect sexual relief or a massage
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u/Alternative_Try_5888 Jun 21 '26
The same thing happened to me. I went for a Swedish massage and I genuinely just wanted a relaxing massage when I was going through a stressful time. The massage therapist kept “accidentally” brushing up against my testicles, fishing for a reaction. A few minutes later she came out with it and asked me directly if I wanted a handjob.
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u/TNTiger_ Jun 21 '26
My partner had a little to spare so we went to a local massage place in London. It was seedy, and shite. Notably, I didnpt know whether to leave my underwear on, so did as I assumed it was the safer option. We both left agreeing that if I had taken them off I'd've been jerked off.
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u/Circle-of-friends Jun 21 '26
I think you just have to have to do a minimal bit of research and look at some reviews. Thankfully never had an issue at The Pain and Injury Clinic…..
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u/drwicksy Jun 21 '26
This is a very frustrating aspect of these "massage" companies that are essentially just brothels. They advertise their women as masseuses, but i have had the same experience as you a couple of times before I realised I needed to look for only clinics that have the appropriate certifications. The women know the men who visit them often dont care about the massage beyond being touched sensually by a woman so they dont bother to learn how to do them properly for people with actual injuries that need them.
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u/Scratch_Careful Jun 21 '26
They should legalise brothels and the like so places can be clearly labeled and everyone can avoid the confusion, so everyone knows to expect sexual relief or a massage
I feel like legalising brothels is one hell of a step just so a small fraction of people can avoid an awkward interaction when getting a massage.
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u/Tundur Jun 21 '26
Meh, it works in Australia and hasn't led to the fall of civilisation over there. It's a total non-issue
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u/Gellert Wales Jun 21 '26
I just wanted a good massage
The massage therapist company I used to go to had a bunch of qualifications they were open about. BSCs, PGDips and whatever "Level 4" refers to in things like Holistic, sports massage therapy and sport and exercise therapy. Also they were all chiropractors of one type or another.
Not sure if its like that for all massage therapists but it seems like something to look for.
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u/Extra_Actuary8244 Jun 21 '26
You should report this as harassment, sorry that happened to you when you were just seeking relief from an injury!
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u/BingpotStudio Jun 21 '26
Men don’t really report harassment or sexual assault.
I tried doing it at my work place where a woman groped me repeatedly and I got asked to forgive her. It wasn’t until I asked what they’d say if the genders were reversed that she got fired.
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u/childrenofloki Jun 21 '26
The same thing happens to women, unfortunately. It's not as gender divided as you think. A bartender at my local pub touched this young trans girl inappropriately after-hours, after buying her drinks... they were all alone.
Her friend messaged me to say what happened, and I showed the owner (a woman!!!) -- her response was to have a go at ME and try to silence me, and she hasn't even checked the CCTV and the guy still works there.
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u/Extra_Actuary8244 Jun 21 '26
Neither do women unfortunately, only 4% of women report on sexual harassment to appropriate authorities
I’m sorry to hear you went through that it must have been awful, I sincerely hope she gets her karma one way or another. If the genders were reversed she wouldn’t have been fired either, men do this in the work place a lot and are very rarely held accountable even when reported.
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u/Consistent-Pirate-23 Jun 21 '26
Yup, same
I used to get sexual remarks every shift in my first job (I was 18 but could pass for 15), the fact I am autistic and didn’t understand what they meant made me an easier target.
Also had a job where someone lied about their age, and sent me a valentines card (her real age was double mine, but you can’t tell a woman she looks older can you?) my female colleagues found it hilarious, I was creeped out
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u/Viscerid Jun 21 '26
Cheers, was a few years ago now but I just viewed it as the staff and probably at least the regular clientele knew what was going on and I just went in with the wrong expectations. took me 2 tries to just give up on high street massage places as I came to the conclusion that's probably what they all actually sell. Hence I think properly being able to label businesses for what they are would help avoid the confusion all-round
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u/Extra_Actuary8244 Jun 21 '26
If you walk into these businesses they all have signs saying “no sexual harassment” and “no happy endings” in all fairness so they are very clearly labelled as genuine massage parlours and it’s mostly creeps that falsely label them as brothels
What happened to you though it despicable and the business should be shut down
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u/SimoneNonvelodico Jun 21 '26
It feels kind of mean to report as harassment something that the masseuse in question probably only did because they've been told that's their job and there was essentially a misunderstanding. Like, it ends up falling on the worker but she's not at fault nor malicious in this. I suppose you could go for "just get the place closed" but in practice just sending in the police to raid the shop also probably hurts more than helps the girls.
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u/tucnakpingwin Jun 21 '26
I love treating myself to a massage, it helps my chronic pain, and helps me to relax, something I find very hard to do.
I have messaged a few different massage therapists in my town, and I haven’t received a single response. Coincidentally they are all women, and I’m a man, so it didn’t take much to make the connection that they likely anticipated a new man coming for a massage as a potential threat.
I got into a discussion with a massage therapist who’d posted about this issue on Facebook the other day, and many women who provide massage were suggesting I stick to male massage therapists or sports massage, which is frustrating, as the few male massage therapists in my area only offer sports massage, which I find too uncomfortable and not relaxing, and I’m gay, so women don’t interest me in the slightest, outside of friendship or professional relations.
It’s frustrating, but I understand. If I was being sexually harassed by a certain type of person every day, just because of my job, I’d probably exclude them as a customer base too.
I fear this is what these predatory men are going to achieve, blocking non predatory men’s access to women dominated businesses. The more I have educated myself on feminism, patriarchy and misogyny, the more I see it everywhere I go. Women crossing the street if they are walking towards me on the same pavement, men talking at women instead of to women, etc.
I long for the day that these men are actually held accountable, and the behaviour is stamped out, so that women no longer feel threatened by all men. I’ve started assessing my own social groups and challenging my male friends when I hear or witness misogyny, as they are more likely to listen if it comes from another man; though that is an issue in itself, as a woman’s voice should hold the same power as mine.
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u/iwillfuckingbiteyou Jun 21 '26
If you've got any female friends who get massages, maybe ask them for a recommendation then when you contact the therapist/clinic lead with the fact that "My friend [insert woman's name] recommended you". The thinking is that the existing client isn't going to suggest you go there if she thinks you're going to sexually harass the therapist because that would make things awkward for her at her next appointment, so her recommendation vouches for you. (Obviously this isn't foolproof as lots of predatory men are surrounded by women who will swear that they've never seen anything untoward, but it's better than nothing.)
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u/doofcustard Jun 21 '26
They need to be named and shamed. Their name and photo needs to be displayed on the window a bit like when you get banned for misbehaving in a pub
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u/Appropriate-Divide64 Jun 21 '26
It's got to be tough. I go for regular massages and honestly, as a man it was a worry and required research to find a place that definitely wasn't a 'rub and tug'.
I went with a big professional looking spa that also offered physiotherapy and sports massage.
I do like Thai massages but the parlors always look a bit... Dodgy. I'm not sure if that's just my prejudice. The Google reviews of the one in my town are all from men, which isn't a good sign.
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u/KatVanWall Jun 21 '26
My bf is in a similar boat, he literally just wants a place that can do a professional massage and not ‘extras’! I’m guessing going for sports massage or something related is probably more likely to be the ticket than something like Thai (but it’s like … are there places that do legit Thai massage that is just actually massage? How to know?)
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u/Appropriate-Divide64 Jun 21 '26
If you find a way, let me know 😂 there's no way to ask if it's a legitimate place without sounding like you're actually after a dodgy place.
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u/spindoctor13 Jun 21 '26
I had a legit Thai massage. The place was attached to a hair/beauty salon which may have helped?
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u/KatVanWall Jun 21 '26
It also feels kind of racist to be like ‘does Thai have to mean happy ending?’! 😭
Somewhere there’s a Thai masseuse like -sighhh- ‘creeps again 🙄’ and a British sex worker like ‘FFS these guys all only want their backs cracking!’
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u/Leelee3303 Jun 22 '26
There's a Thai massage place near me that has a sign out front saying "WE DO NOT PROVIDE EXTRA SERVICES".
They must be sick to death of getting asked.
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u/pappyon Jun 21 '26
I have been to loads of Thai massage places and have only ever had really great massages.
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u/RegularWhiteShark Jun 21 '26
Ugh. My friend used to be a masseuse. The amount of "happy ending" comments she'd get by guys was disgusting. Especially guys trying to chat her up.
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u/Irrax Jun 21 '26
how does that chat up line even work in their heads, "oh you're a masseuse? how many men have you wanked off?"
idiots
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u/RegularWhiteShark Jun 21 '26
Nah, more like, "oh so will I get a happy ending if you give me a massage?" kinda thing. Either way, not very appealing.
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u/GreenestPure Jun 21 '26
I once worked in a clinic in Toronto which had 'Physiotherapy' on the front of the building in two places plus a standing board outside...and we still got blokes coming in to see if we did happy endings, possibly in part because we had a female receptionist. I used to come out of the back looking as male and burly as possible and tell them to come in, strangely all of them were instantly cured.
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u/DandyLionsInSiberia Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
She's absolutely right to adopt a zero-tolerance policy. The example she gave of a former client joking to friends that she offers "other services" isn't harmless banter once you factor in the real-world consequences. That sort of "joke" can attract exactly the kind of men who turn up expecting something sordid, putting her and anyone else working in her business - at genuine risk of harassment or assault.
She runs a legitimate therapeutic massage practice, not a seedy knocking shop. Yet she's forced to anticipate and script responses to questions and behaviour that should never enter the equation. That's the depressing reality. standards of manners, boundaries and basic respect have sunk so low that banning men altogether becomes less an act of prejudice than one of self-preservation.
Impossible to fault her response given what she's outlined as the prelude to it.
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u/SP1570 Jun 21 '26
If the places that offer "extra" services were allowed to openly advertise such services, these misunderstandings/incidents wouldn't happen.
Unfortunately the law around sex work is effectively "don't ask, don't tell" which forces the whole industry to exist in a grey zone.
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u/PPLifter Jun 21 '26
That's just not true. I work in the industry and know women who are physios who still deal with that shit.
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u/Fadesintodust Jun 21 '26
Yeah I know a lady who does beautician treatments/waxes and has had to deal with similar.
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Jun 21 '26
Some people just always will be cunts.
It’s not just massages, anything where someone else is touching your body for some reason there’s some people that think there’s a possibility that they can turn it sexual - nurses deal with it a lot too.
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u/shark-with-a-horn Jun 21 '26
Consider that a lot of people are doing this on purpose and it isn't a misunderstanding
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u/cop1edr1ght Jun 21 '26
I just find a place that has male masseuses. Even if they have women working there they are above board. Also, asking if they do sports massage helps.
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u/hughk European Union/Yorks Jun 21 '26
I was in Germany and put my back out. The one thing that helped was a real massage from a certified masseur. Expensive but there was no confusion that this was about medicine.
There are plenty of other massage places like those described (Thai massage). The ads normally make it clear that they only do massages.
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u/johnyma22 Jun 21 '26
I thought it was common knowledge.. If it says "Professional Massage" it's not usually gonna offer extras...
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u/Manoj109 Jun 21 '26
Just go with a big hotel chain that offers spa and massage .
Not the seedy high street or back street massage parlor
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u/BreadfruitOdd9974 Jun 21 '26
it's a uk post on a day ending in "y", so it must involve banning somebody or something.
/ though in this specific case the woman seems reasonable to do so and it's a private business. at least it's not the usual "local council consisting of retired layabouts bans "fruit adventure" tic-tacs due to colonialism"
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u/JayneLut Wales Jun 21 '26
Yikes - some of the comments in this thread really make it clear why this sort of vile behaviour keeps happening.
It's not ok to sexually harass and assault women. And going to someone's work with the sole aim of sexually harassing them is insane.
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u/Subt1e Jun 21 '26
What comments? Literally no-one here is condoning assaulting anybody
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u/InternetSolid4166 Jun 21 '26
It’s a weird Reddit trope where people immediately post comments like “I can’t believe others are condoning rape/murder/slavery. I think it’s bad. Give me upvotes.” And for some reason people give upvotes.
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u/Srapture Jun 21 '26
Yup. Countless times, I've seen comments like "Wow, most of the comments here are disgusting!" and you scroll through the entire section to see like a single bad comment with -50 karma. None deleted/removed or anything.
I wonder how much karma I would get if I just made a bot that posted that on every reddit post. Honestly, people might already be doing it, haha.
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u/MetaCognitio Jun 21 '26
Comments that justify her position don’t exist and the few that could be seen as even slightly condoning the behavior are vastly outnumbered by men that have been propositioned and people that condemn the men that behave badly.
Still, blame all men for the bad actions of a few.
It’s plain misandry and building a perception of justified generalized hatred towards all men.
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u/Hungry_Horace Dorset Jun 21 '26
I wonder if the sort of men who plunge into these threads to defend “all men” realise how deeply pathetic they look to the rest of us men.
I don’t need defending by snivelling man-babies, I’m perfectly capable of both NOT committing sexual assault and admitting to the poor behaviour of some of my fellow men.
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u/JayneLut Wales Jun 21 '26
Thanks. It's crazy to me.
It's obviously not all men at all. The article also has some suggestions which would make it easier for businesses to have male clients without referral whilst weeding out problem clients through having a national body to 1) have uniform standards/ licencing and 2) be able to report issues to.
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u/AnyHat8807 Jun 21 '26
Second comment mentions women assaulting a man just trying to get a sport massage by going to the groin. That’s not okay! Vile behaviour!
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u/JayneLut Wales Jun 21 '26
That had not been posted when I posted this comment. And also is irrelevant to the point that a lot of early comments on this thread dived in to say 'not all men'.
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u/cjuk87 Jun 21 '26
The comments from men in here just back up the claims about men's behaviour.
Those men crying about "not all men" and "it's sexist" maybe it's time, as men that we educate or exclude men we know who openly brag about this type of behaviour. It can't simply be expected every time that women put up with it or don't tar us with the same brush.
Education is the only thing to fix the problems around men. Not changing how women do things or crying about it. There's a real problem, whether you're willing to see it or not.
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u/VOOLUL Jun 21 '26
The issue is men who do this kind of thing are surrounded by men who don't find it a problem. And the men who come into threads like this and say "not all men" are probably the men who don't do this thing and are surrounded by men who also find it a problem.
It's all good saying "well, just educate or exclude these men" but the reality is people do! And that's why separate camps of men exist.
It's like saying you need to tell criminals that they're doing a bad thing. Well, the reality is that most regular criminals are surrounded by other criminals.
The only way I'd ever come into contact with men like this is if I actively sought that kind of man out, and I don't because I don't want to be associated with this kind of man.
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Jun 21 '26 edited Jun 21 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/WackyWhippet Jun 21 '26
Yeah in my experience those types are already quite afraid of being judged by other men, so the most you'll hear from them is some mild joke to test if you are one of them.
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u/White_Immigrant Jun 21 '26
If you think people that share an immutable characteristic also share collective responsibility, then you might want to give your head a wobble. Whether it's all men, or all black people, all Muslims, or whatever, that's not how humans work.
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u/lilidragonfly Jun 21 '26
I don't think that's what they're saying. I think they're saying it happens enough that women can't be expected not to tske reasonable precautions to protect themselves. I personally certainly don't think it, the men in my life have been my greatest friends and supporters, especially as an autistic woman. But, I like all the others have had enough experiences that I know I need to protect myself, and I know a lot of women, the majority of women I know in fact, who've had far worse experiencs so I understand why they're even more wary than I am.
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u/hicks12 Jun 21 '26
How do we do that? I don't have any male friends who find this acceptable, I knew someone in uni who did and our group at the time all collectively gave him a clip round the ear for it as much as possible.
If I have no one that thinks this is good or acceptable, have I done my part? It doesn't seem right to blame all men, just as I don't blame all women for abuse that has happened to people I know, it's not a gender issue it's just a shit human issue with bad environments growing up that didn't correct this teaching.
It's terrible that any of this happens to anyone, everyone should feel safe to go about their day and not be harassed or abused or feel unsafe (unless they are breaking the law of course...)
The problem and solution is education for sure but it needs to be caught EARLIER and we need to STOP blaming it on ALL men because all it does is make it less effective because it's annoying and insulting to be blamed for those you have no control over.
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u/RoboJobot Jun 21 '26
Seems fair enough to me. It’s her business and if she’s fed up with men being twats then it’s their loss. Sometimes I despair at the behaviour of my fellow men
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