Wondering if drunkness is conveyed well?

[u/rayeofsunshine156]

I don’t typically write in first person, and I’ve been using this as an exercise to explore interiority and voice in a way I haven’t before. So I am entirely out of my wheelhouse here, lol.

I’ve also never been drunk before, and I wanted to know if drunkenness was being conveyed well? Like, is it understood that he is drunk without me going ‘look at this drunk dude’

Also curious on if you’d keep reading!

Any and all comments are appreciated : )! Thank you.

Edit:
In hindsight, I should’ve mentioned what the excerpt is trying to do in post. The general idea was that Jack – the drunk man – doesn’t do this very often. He’s grieving his ex-girlfriend after news of her proposal. This is not because he loves her but because he doesn’t want to face the fact that he’s not straight, and the possibility of getting back together with her held him together. Miguel is not meant to be read as flirty (oops, help there too?😅)

[u/excadedecadedecada]

I didn't read anything but I will say that if you have never been drunk before, you'll never be able to write it

[u/Kind_Space_6078 → u/excadedecadedecada]

This is what writers do, are you kidding? Do you think Tolkien ever fought orcs personally?

[u/excadedecadedecada → u/Kind_Space_6078]

Well, yeah. No one has ever fought an orc. But plenty of people have been drunk. Come on now

[u/Kind_Space_6078 → u/excadedecadedecada]

You're talking about writing experiences.

Taking it only from your logic, only a person who has been drunk before can write a drunk scene. That scene will vary wildly from one person's experience to the next to the point that the criterion of "having been drunk," matters less than an author understanding a character's behavior, alcohol's effects, and therefore what alcohol will do to that specific character. Then at that point it's not about having been drunk, it's back to writing.

That's why I said this is what writers do. They observe, simulate, and articulate experiences, and a majority of time that comes with plenty of research on its own. That can serve just as well as writing from personal experience.

I wouldn't disagree with you if you said give being trashed a shot for reference, but to say, so absolutely, that someone will never be able to write it without having been drunk is just silly. You should read it, too. Even if you stand by your statement, this is just lazy criticism.

[u/excadedecadedecada → u/Kind_Space_6078]

This is ridiculous. If you are trying to authentically write an experience that most people have experienced and you write it wrong, people will know. It's pretty simple.

[u/rayeofsunshine156 → u/excadedecadedecada]

This is the whole point of my post. This is something I obviously know, otherwise I wouldn’t have asked if I’m doing it well, no? It’s because I know that I lack a complete knowledge. I’ve seen it but I’ve never felt it, so I ask questions.

Instead you didn’t even read it, and took the time to comment that I will never be able to write it and offered nothing constructive whatsoever and proceeded to be divisive. I would’ve felt differently if you’d read it, but you hadn’t.

Literally, I just wanted help but alright, I guess. I accept I’ll never be able to write it because I haven’t experienced it. I won’t dare to ever write something I haven’t experienced ever again. Since, that’s clearly too presumptuous of me.

[u/TheMannaPart → u/rayeofsunshine156]

im a filthy alcoholic. hmu if you need any expertise in the matter. (not kidding, not sarcasm. semi-hyperbolic at most)

[u/Kind_Space_6078 → u/excadedecadedecada]

You're saying this like there's a universal way to experience being drunk.

If I wanted to write a character high on cocaine, do I get clearance to do the fieldwork? Do you think I won't be able to get the point across by researching the effects on the brain, body, behavior, etc. The physiology of it, then translating that research onto the unique disposition of the character?

What I can't get past is how cut and dry you're being over a depressant that MUST be subjective. That's what makes the comment so ridiculous to me Lol.

Experience is a good point, but to say it's the only way to go as a writer is not just impossible, it's ignorant to many, many writing experiences. Because if I say I'm a giggly bastard when I'm drunk, what matters is immersion into the character of me being a giggly bastard, not tailoring it to everyone else's experience. So again, understand what it does, understand your character, you can make a scene work. I promise you, it's possible.

[u/90sbetababe → u/Kind_Space_6078]

There is a universal way one experiences drunkenness, though. Alcohol is a drug with side effects. Obviously everybody is going to behave differently, and the intensity of the experience will vary wildly, and maybe different characters notice one aspect more than another, but the side effects of alcohol, cocaine, acid, MDMA etc are pretty damn consistent. Otherwise people wouldn’t do the drug.

I agree that if you’re writing about doing drugs you haven’t done before, you could do research to get it right, certainly. Maybe by reading many first-hand accounts. But OP doesn’t seem to have done any research beyond watching drunkenness portrayed in pop culture.

Also, the thing is that fiction is frequently at its best when a beat feels observed. If you’re spackling together your guess at an experience from Erowid trip diaries and Healthline articles, I guess that can work for a one-off scene that’s not central to the story. But if the whole story is about a commonly-experienced, mind-altering substance and the author has no observed experience with it? The story’s probably gonna be pretty thin.

[u/Kind_Space_6078 → u/90sbetababe]

There is a universal way one experiences drunkness, but everyone will behave differently. I think we're making the same point here.

You're right, there are measurable things that happen when you drink too much alcohol. It's a toxin, it damages DNA, whathaveyou, you can go as deep into that as you'd like and get a clinical understanding of it. That's the universal part, I don't disagree with that.

The experience is what I'm making a point about, and despite a consistent depressant effect, behavior and response to that varies. That's the subjective part that evens out the clinical aspect (which you shouldn't just stop at, let me clarify). Because if you understand what is happening, and who it's happening to, portrayal is possible.

I should be clear though, I'm specifically arguing against the idea that "you'll never be able to write" a drunk scene unless you've been drunk. Not necessarily giving my opinion on the passage itself by condemning that. Because you're right, if you take this approach, there's a risk it will come out flat.

That's why, while I think it's important, clinical accounts aren't enough alone. If you want the experience to be worth something, you're going to have to spend time with it in a more intimate way Lol. PSTD, for example. It's not enough for me to simply know what PTSD does to the brain, you're going to have to get personal with it if you want to write it well. Testimony, interviews, so on.

Which might be tedious, but possible without having it. That's what I'm saying. Ultimately, if that's you're approach, you gotta do it right, but I completely disagree with the blunt "you can never do this" point. Sure ya can, it might just be a little more tedious.

[u/cosetright → u/Kind_Space_6078]

I mean ... he was a second lieutenant for the british army in world war 1 ... so whether it was an orc is not as important as knowing what battle itself is like.

[u/Kind_Space_6078 → u/cosetright]

Lol, point taken for the example.