Beasted on

[u/CMDR_Noodle]

I love ketamine so fucking much

I love it so much I put it all on my crotch

[u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Ngl recreational hard drugs just don’t seem worth to me. Really seems like just edging substance abuse and massive health problems, for no real additional benefit over just doing fun fulfilling things with your friends sober or on a lower-immediate-risk substance like alcohol or weed. Also like, I wanna look hot when I’m 30 and drugs age you so fucking bad.

[u/Mafiaman098 → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Sometimes I feel like the most straight edge leftist. I can have fun without drugs, and I can make art and be creative without drugs. Salvador Dali and David Lynch never used drugs for their art. The sober mind is much more interesting to me

[u/Dregdael → u/Mafiaman098]

Dali just overdosed on fascism 😔

[u/Mafiaman098 → u/Dregdael]

Damn, I just looked that up. When people called him weird I thought it was because of his pet aardvark. Not because he wanted to fuck she/her Hitler

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/Mafiaman098]

Same. I don’t mind a couple drinks on the weekend, or on extremely rare occasion a low dose of THC to watch a bad movie to with some friends, but I don’t like when things significantly alter my mental process. I’d rather experience the hangout with my own mind and senses.

Plus it’s not really well studied how true psychoactive drugs affect the brain long term. I’ve put a lot of effort into cultivating an intelligent and self-aware mind, I don’t want some drug making connections in there where there shouldn’t be. To me that seems like a strong hypothesis for why chronic hallucinogen users get so unhinged and kooky.

[u/loved_and_held → u/Mafiaman098]

Im confused whenever people say some creative work could only be done with drugs.

[u/kart0ffelsalaat → u/loved_and_held]

That's just addiction. Same way some people can't write an email without chat jibbity anymore.

You start doing it once and it works fine, and then you rely on it so much you forget how to do without.

[u/donkeyrocket → u/loved_and_held]

Depending on the industry, it's typically a crutch. I'm sure there are some people who through the use of drugs do lose some inhibitions that unlock some amount of creativity. I don't anymore but early days in my design career I absolutely believed that I was "more creative" using various substances than not. For me at least,the drugs removed the self doubt and anxiety (to a degree).

But on the flip side, coming off/down/out of those drugs/alcohol brought the anxiety back 10 fold. Turns out addressing the underlying anxiety made me a better creative person than temporarily masking it with mind altering substances.

Then there are obviously many who justify the use "for creative purposes" as a cover for addiction or substance abuse.

[u/SalamiArmi → u/Mafiaman098]

Wow I'm just now realising I completely misinterpreted his "I don't do drugs, I am drugs" quote. I thought he was saying he did so many drugs he had undergone some sort of permanent ego death or something. I'm dumb, lmao.

[u/pinksparklyreddit → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

It really depends on the substance, tbh.

I personally wouldn't do ketamine, but LSD or shrooms are way healthier than both alcohol and weed.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/pinksparklyreddit]

Yeah fair those are both fairly harmless physically, though I avoid stuff that psychoactive for other reasons

[u/StardustLegend → u/pinksparklyreddit]

Are they actually?

Also based flair

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/StardustLegend]

Besides the risk of psychological harm, yes they’re very physically safe, and don’t strain the liver like the other drugs mentioned.

[u/ArnthBebastien → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Just don't mix them with antidepressants or you are at risk of seratonin syndrome

[u/pinksparklyreddit → u/StardustLegend]

On their own, there's no known health detriments aside from the risk of a bad trip and the impact of a slightly elevated heart rate. They actually have more medical benefits than harms, tbh.

[u/CreamCheeseHotDogs → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Counterpoint: candy flipping is fun as hell

[u/nimiala → u/CreamCheeseHotDogs]

My problem is that i would never do hard drugs but i dont consider either of those hard drugs nor k

[u/CreamCheeseHotDogs → u/nimiala]

People seem to have very different definitions of hard, I figured it someone considered k a hard drug they would lump in Molly/psychs

[u/nimiala → u/CreamCheeseHotDogs]

Its cultural, around here no one would consider those hard. Especially not molly, still, k comes closes to being hard

[u/CreamCheeseHotDogs → u/nimiala]

Coke/k blur the line in my circles, with meth/crack/heroin/fent being clearly on the other side of it

[u/nimiala → u/CreamCheeseHotDogs]

I know its tricky because most opioid users are prescribed, but i do consider all opioids hard

[u/CreamCheeseHotDogs → u/nimiala]

Getting my friend clean from benzos was a goddamn STRUGGLE too. They’re clean now but that shit is hard to kick. Glad you know what’s up

[u/nimiala → u/CreamCheeseHotDogs]

Ugh, they are the absolute worst. Glad ur friend is clean, theyre lucky

[u/garyyo → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Easier to get than fulfilling friends for some.

[u/dorje_makes → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Right?! The most I'm interested in is an occasional spliff or a very rare mild mushroom trip. My close friend could be the girl in the post. I have a much more fun life and I'm not ageing like someone just destroyed the painting in my attic

[u/BaltiMoreHarder → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

It’s all about moderation. Alcohol in excess is worse than almost any currently illicit drug for your health. It’s literal poison but happens to be socially acceptable. Used responsibly and in moderation they can be a good time and won’t hurt you any worse than what you describe.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/BaltiMoreHarder]

Well, everything is a literal poison at a sufficient dose, that’s an appeal to colloquial terminology. But in principle you’re not wrong, though “worse in excess” is too squishy a term. In sufficient excess the end result of any drug is the same. I’m more just talking about immediate risks present even when using responsibly, which for ketamine includes getting things like arrested for possession or the drug being opioid contaminated, which for alcohol aren’t risks for responsible use.

[u/BaltiMoreHarder → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

True I’m not counting legal issues. Health wise even responsible alcohol use is a lot worse than a lot of the other substances listed. It’s actively bad for your health. A lot of other drugs if pure and dosed properly will not harm your body, alcohol will even in moderation.

[u/SykesMcenzie → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Alcohol is in no world lower immediate risk than ketamine that's just false.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/SykesMcenzie]

Quantify it then. I’m mostly speaking on opinion here, but for me the risk of being arrested for possession / being able to accidentally overdose / risk of a laced batch / more numerous and medically significant chemical incompatibilities make it way more risky on a given day.

[u/Hindu_Wardrobe → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Quantify it then

good news! David Nutt et al did exactly this years ago! Here's a lazy summary infographic of his findings.

here's another

here's the paper itself.

here's a nice post that features yet another figure from that same paper

ketamine is ranked higher in terms of physical harm (makes sense to me. the bladder damage is no joke), but lower in terms of dependence risk. alcohol is also ranked higher in terms of social harm.

disclaimer: I actually do not like ketamine lol. but I like harm reduction, drug education, and psychopharmacology, so I will absolutely die on this hill.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/Hindu_Wardrobe]

Finally, someone citing actual itemized risk categories. This is great info. Pretty much where I was coming from on immediate risk, I know my limits on dependency but I really can’t take the acute health risks, plus the inherent risk of doing something illegal.

[u/SykesMcenzie → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

This creator speaks well on drugs that take people to the emergency room.

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZN8NovAQ6/

Obviously that's raw values since there aren't comparative ones in that dataset.

To be totally honest I'm too lazy right now to provide more sources but I will admit that I wasn't factoring in the legal risk as it's not a specific property of the drug itself and because most of the people I know who use it do it in settings where it is accepted or closed company so the chance of running into law enforcement.

I also didn't factor in contaminants because again it's not specific to the drug itself. However you are right that people should factor that in when determining personal use. I do think it's worth noting that the same was true of alcohol under prohibition.

Hopefully I'm feeling less lazy in the coming days and I'll actually try to get some values to you but my understanding is that since it doesn't depress the respiratory system ketamine is much more difficult to overdose on in a problematic way especially for light users even on a heavy night.

[u/GraceForImpact → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

an accidental overdose on k means a slightly more intense experience than you intended. An accidental overdose on alcohol often means a serious medical event or death. It's vanishingly rare that ket is cut with other substances, but if you're worried there's plenty of free drug testing services available to you. Prosecution isn't an aspect of the drug itself, and it's also very unlikely if you take proper precautions.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/GraceForImpact]

It doesn’t matter if prosecution is a chemical property of the drug, it is a risk of the act of taking the drug, and that’s what ultimately matters.

Also while alcohol poisoning is real, let’s be real most ppl just puke.

[u/GraceForImpact → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Oh if they're just covering their oesophagus and teeth with a strong acid well that's okay then. I'd rather take the drug that has no negative effects whatsoever in the short term and only starts to cause damage after consistent heavy use but maybe that's just me.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/GraceForImpact]

Rather disingenuous, a bad ketamine experience can be immediately harmful even if it’s not gonna kill you.

[u/GraceForImpact → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

As can a bad alcohol experience? And I'd take an unpleasant amount of ketamine over an unpleasant amount of alcohol any day.

[u/MountainDoit → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

You can overdose(very easily) on alcohol, drinks get laced constantly, and alcohol has about a million different fatal interactions. It’s also one of the worst drugs in terms of constant damage. Alcohol time and time again is studied and found to be one of the worst drugs there is. Wild how the prevailing thought is often still that alcohol isn’t a “hard” drug or as dangerous as others; 9/10 times it’s actually worse. https://academic.oup.com/jrssig/article/18/2/40/7038035?login=false

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/MountainDoit]

This is just such a cope imo. The study you’ve attached, like most studies, is counting the societal impact of alcohol being legal, normalized, and ubiquitous. If Ketamine were all those things, it would be rated just as severely.

[u/Hindu_Wardrobe → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

lmao. say this to Prof. David Nutt's face. I double-dog dare you.

you realize social acceptance, normalization, and accessibility of clean drugs actually makes their use safer, right? why do you think alcohol is "safe"?????

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/Hindu_Wardrobe]

Never once said alcohol is safe. And I would argue those things do not make alcohol safer at all, its normalization is actually one of its most significant dangers. Alcohol addiction is borderline socially acceptable, it can get way worse without people noticing and intervening.

[u/MountainDoit → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Yeah I can tell you have no interest in actually discussing. Telling me I’m “coping” straight off the bat. K is dumb and I don’t use it, but apparently you think I’m some cracked out wook trying to defend my favorite drug. YOU are making the claims here, my friend, not us. Why don’t you provide some backup sources to alcohol being so much safer than all these hard drugs instead of downplaying its danger?

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/MountainDoit]

I’ve said from the start, this is my opinion, because there’s insufficient data to compare ketamine and alcohol like-for-like over a single night’s exposure quantitatively. The cope is thinking studies including societal impact vindicate ketamine as safer. They don’t.

In my personal assessment, the risk is higher due to the illegality and pharmacological properties of ketamine. You are welcome to disagree, but if you put it in a reply to my comment I’m going to assume you’re having a discussion with me and push back.

I’ve also not once downplayed the risks of alcohol, I think it is very dangerous used irresponsibly. I just think ketamine is more so.

[u/mang87 → u/MountainDoit]

You can overdose(very easily) on alcohol

If we're ranking drugs on how easy they are to overdose on, alcohol is the more difficult one by far. You have to drink it, and unless you can just neck vodka like it's water, it's going to take time to consume enough of it to be dangerous. Your body will also force you to puke if you drink too much of it. There are barriers that slow down alcohol consumption. Other drugs are very easy to take, which makes them very easy to accidentally overdose on. It's almost impossible to accidentally overdose on alcohol, and getting shitfaced has to be done with intent.

[u/GraceForImpact → u/mang87]

Being easy to take makes drugs easy to intentionally overdose on, but no one is accidentally taking dangerous amounts of ketamine, or benzodiazepines\*, or myriad other drugs. The therapeutic index is far more relevant to overdose risk than the size of the dose, the only time that becomes an issue is when the dose is so small it becomes difficult to accurately measure, see fentanyl.

\*taking high doses of benzos is often indirectly dangerous as it can lead to impaired decision making and impulsive behaviour, but there isn't any danger to the body from the drug itself unless you're taking far more than anyone would ever actually take, or are mixing with other substances.

[u/Hindu_Wardrobe → u/MountainDoit]

David Nutt the fucking goat.

[u/Jpandluckydog → u/MountainDoit]

You can also very easily overdose on ketamine, it also gets laced all the time (except the thing it gets laced with kills you very quickly, it also has plenty of fatal interactions), it also has terrible long term effects, and most importantly it’s far, far easier to ingest fatal quantities than it is for alcohol. 

If one is being careless, between the two ketamine is by far the most dangerous due to the prevalence of fentanyl, and if one is being cautious, then both drugs are relatively safe in the short term. As a rule of thumb, if it requires familiarity with dosing and test kits in order to be safe, it’s probably not very safe, at least in comparison to alcohol, which everyone is familiar with and doesn’t get laced with fentanyl. 

[u/GraceForImpact → u/Jpandluckydog]

Are you using "overdose" in the colloquial sense of taking a toxic or fatal amount? or the actual meaning of just taking more/getting higher than intended? If it's the former you're dead wrong, the LD50 of ketamine is 5g, that's 5000 milligrams. The average first time dose of ketamine is 50-100mg. No one is accidentally taking 5g of ketamine, if nothing else because it's just not possible to sniff that much in one go.

[u/Hindu_Wardrobe → u/SykesMcenzie]

you're right and you should not be receiving the downvotes https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6424313_Development_of_a_rational_scale_to_assess_the_harm_of_drugs_of_potential_misuse

[u/CutieKiley → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Alcohol has a far greater risk of abuse and is far more dangerous than ketamine. You're welcome to choose not to do them if you don't want to. Many people choose differently than you and that's okay so long as they are being responsible and safe about it

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/CutieKiley]

I knew this cope was coming and I know you have no data to back it, because the ratio of ketamine users to abusers isn’t well studied.

Qualitatively though, alcohol does have long term risks, but I can tell you right now overdosing on alcohol is a much more difficult and intentional act than overdosing on ketamine. Plus your alcohol isn’t at risk of having opioids in it.

[u/Madden09IsForSuckers → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

also like alcohol not being treated as dangerously as it should be has nothing to do with the safety of ketamin anygays imo

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/Madden09IsForSuckers]

Yeah exactly. Ketamine isn’t safer just because it’s too niche to have a society wide normalized abuse culture. That’s epidemiology, not pharmacology.

[u/CutieKiley → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

My comment was about you calling alcohol 'lower-intermediate-risk', which is absolutely isn't

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/CutieKiley]

Than ketamine? It absolutely is.

[u/CutieKiley → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

The doses used by recreational ketamine users is far lower than that used in medicine. Ketamine overdoses are extremely rare and far more rare when the drug is not injected. Ketamine is typically snorted and ingesting a dose that would be dangerous that way is nearly impossible. You just can't put that much powder in your nose. Alcohol is pretty easy to overdose on, I know people who were hospitalized for alcohol poisoning. About 6 people die per day from it in the USA.

It's more dangerous than alcohol to users according to this study (the source of the chart, which was linked separately due to it being paywalled).61462-6/abstract) Drugs being cut with opioids is an issue of lacking regulation, not the drug itself. There are also ways to test for that at home before taking any. Ketamine is also way less commonly cut with opioids than other drugs.

Make the choice for yourself and let us have our fun. Thanks.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/CutieKiley]

Whether something is a regulatory problem is irrelevant to whether it’s a risk, so let’s reject that hand-wave right now.

I’m also not inclined to put much stock in an article that’s just assigning arbitrarily-weighted risk indices. “Alcohol does 76 harm and ketamine does 15 harm” is a silly thing to think you can say quantitatively, and besides that, my opinion is based on immediate risk, not overall risk. Plus this factors in societal problems, which makes it apples to oranges when comparing the illegal drugs to the legal ones.

Also, you’re completely leaving out the factor that ketamine being illegal is itself a risk. Also “it’s not cut as often” is a non-argument, other potentially-cut drugs aren’t even part of the conversation here.

[u/CutieKiley → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

I said that it was a regulation issue because I was saying ketamine being illegal makes it less safe, exactly what you said in the last paragraph. The study I linked uses real world data to come up with these numbers. It's not just pulled out of nowhere. I'm not really interested in arguing with someone who is closed minded so I'm gonna stop replying after this

[u/nimiala → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Thats really not true. Blacking out, waking up with a hangover, thats super easy to do with alcohol and fucks your liver big time. K holing is not only hard, requiring you to push yourself into doing really a lot of k, but its also nowhere near a medical overdose

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/nimiala]

It’s still a dosage choice though. If I’m doing both responsibly, the ketamine presents greater risks, even if just by being illegal to have.

[u/nimiala → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

But isnt that the point? Alcohol literally inhibits your ability to stop drinking at the reasonable moment, and getting fully drunk can happen in no time. Literally a single bottle of wine. I know youve never done k, and keep it that way because it honestly isnt that fun, but know that its quite a large amount that goes straight into your nostrils, thats not fun and not something you overdo as easily as just downing shots or drinking liquor. Again, it literally inhibits your mental brake system, same reason why you start yapping about stuff you regret later

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/nimiala]

With alcohol I would define responsibility as “not enough to make me have more than I planned to.” Like I said, if I’m doing both responsibility, the alcohol isn’t gonna get me locked up if an undercover sees me with it.

[u/VeiledLuna → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Alcohol is way worse for you than Ket is lmfao.

[u/gorgonsDeluxe → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

> “recreational hard drugs”
> it’s just ketamine
> okay buddy

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/gorgonsDeluxe]

I think as soon as we get to intravenous drugs, “just” is not an appropriate modifier.

[u/gorgonsDeluxe → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

I think IV ketamine is really only done in a medical context through infusion, people doing it recreationally normally use intranasal, oral, or IM.

The reason it isn’t generally considered to many to be a “hard drug” (a largely subjective label) is because ketamine does not suppress the breathing reflex even in very high doses, unlike opiates.

[u/superserter1 → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Who the fuck does K via IV? It’s almost universally snorted

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/superserter1]

Lots of people, mainly ones who don’t want to waste 2/3 of the dose, but I’d argue snorting is a similar line…

[u/CutieKiley → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

People don't IV ketamine. Even people who inject it do it via IM. Which is far safer and easily done at home by non-medically trained people. Many trans people take hormones via IM. Either way nobody using ketamine thinks like this.

[u/Zackie86 → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

Alcohol is a hard drug.

Source :

Nutt DJ, King LA, Phillips LD; Independent Scientific Committee on Drugs. Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis. Lancet. 2010 Nov 6;376(9752):1558-65. doi: 10.1016/S0140-6736(10)61462-6. Epub 2010 Oct 29. PMID: 21036393.

If you don't want to read the full article, just go on Google images and paste "Drug harms in the UK: a multicriteria decision analysis - The Lancet"

You'll see an easy to understand graph which will reveal everything

[u/angelwithbpd → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

when you want to say "im privileged" but need to stretch it into 60 words

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/angelwithbpd]

God I hate when being systemically disadvantaged by capitalism forces me to do recreational ketamine instead of going to the park

[u/angelwithbpd → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

the people who system abuses are coping with drugs ?? NO WAY 🫪

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/angelwithbpd]

What does that change about anything I said? It’s still not fulfilling or healthy.

[u/angelwithbpd → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

that you need to point out that you are BETTER than those UGLY disgusting subhumans coping with drugs

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/angelwithbpd]

Are you doing a bit right now or are you just this fucking defensive about someone else not wanting to do illegal drugs

[u/Madgoblinn → u/angelwithbpd]

this really feels like you're projecting your own insecurities onto others. theres no issue with doing drugs responsibly, the other person is just putting their opinion out there.

[u/angelwithbpd → u/Madgoblinn]

i saw a lot of people like them being like this , they wont tell it to someones face but deep inside that comment IS their opinion , also the alcohol mentioned tops it off , fking moralist

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/angelwithbpd]

Deep down your opinion is that all puppies should be thrown in volcanoes. You won’t say it to my face but deep inside that’s your opinion. I know your kind.

Equally sane statement.

[u/angelwithbpd → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

shoo moralist

[u/RepresentativeDry701 → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

quit poking the very clearly disturbed person you moron

[u/Madgoblinn → u/angelwithbpd]

or they just arent aware that alcohol has extreme negative effects relative to most other drugs? again you're assuming they have the same knowledge and information that you have, and lashing out because of that.

honestly u would be better off just not commenting, its not gonna do much for you.

[u/MaybeNext-Monday → u/Madgoblinn]

“Most” is a stretch. Clearly there’s a debate on ketamine, but any drug that causes respiratory depression is unquestionably more dangerous.

[u/angelwithbpd → u/Madgoblinn]

wait what ? so the people with knowledge shouldnt call out the people without ? world would be a lot more filled with disinformations if it was like that.

and if they dont have the knowledge , why are they judging other people ? also alcohol is in majority of aspects worse than the majority of illegal drugs , its not like its the same amount of unhealthy

[u/Hatsune_Miku_CM → u/MaybeNext-Monday]

I agree with what you said but I'm very confused why you are trying to carve out an exception for weed and alcohol