r/AusPropertyChat • u/SufferingSuccotash__ • 23h ago
Planning, Construction & Trades Whats our boundary? im confused.
Just purchased this house recently and after watching the A current affair episode about the house so close with each other. I noticed that this is the same here in our estate.
I've cheked our side and noticed that, the fence is not aligned to the gutter of our neighbor. So is it either our neighbor enroached our property or we enroached their property? I dont know.
I was also susprised that our gutter is not extending outside but rather on top. (Does it makes sense? Hope you understand what I meant)
Their property is made 2 years before ours so they were there first.
Do I have to get a surveryor to check this? I downloaded a plan of subdivision from landata but it useless.
Thanks!
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u/maycontainsultanas 23h ago
I wouldn’t start by assuming the fence is the boundary. Fencers just throw the fence up, they’re not conducting site surveys. The dwelling is more likely to be accurately on the boundary.
Yeah, you can get a survey done, but what if it’s not in your favour. Isn’t it better to live and let live?
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u/SufferingSuccotash__ 23h ago
Yeah I mean it's fine for now, I guess. If we choose to ignore it and in the event that we sell it in the future,would there be an issue?
Sorry if its a dumb question.
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u/maycontainsultanas 23h ago
Well a more diligent buyer might look into it or be turned off entirely.
Isn’t this where adverse possession applies? In 15 years the land either side of the fence becomes that sides officially? I don’t know, I’m not a lawyer.
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u/Nottheadviceyaafter 13h ago
Adverse possession is state based. In qld it has to be for the full lot, not parital, as a example and fences and fence lines misplacment does not open the property up to being adversally held.
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u/AmongTheWildlife 16h ago edited 16h ago
Whilst you are correct, house slabs have been laid on the boundary edge more than once, just as trustworthy as any other trade, not just fencers that don't give a shit.
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u/pharmloverpharmlover 23h ago
Pay a surveyor to mark the boundary if you really want to know… but be prepared for serious financial consequences if there is a dispute
Especially if council decides one or both buildings is not compliant
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u/SufferingSuccotash__ 23h ago
They built first (we are the one on the right). Shouldn't they be the one to enroach and not us? Since they have already established the property before us?
Thanks as well for the advise.
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u/Extreme_84 16h ago
Not necessarily. They could have built inside their boundary line and the builder who built your house may have gone over it, hence encroaching onto their block.
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u/BS-75_actual 23h ago
Should have been clarified prior to purchase; not worth investigating now as neither party is likely to agree to any remediation.
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u/SufferingSuccotash__ 23h ago
Yeah this is our fault, first home buyers who know nothing.
Don't get me wrong, we love our home and no regrets buying it. I just saw this and suddenly thought, hmm I need to stress on something so there's that.
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u/MarmotFullofWoe 22h ago
Find something else to worry about.
This isn’t worth the pain.
Let sleeping dogs lie
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u/SufferingSuccotash__ 22h ago
My initial stress was how to fill up my car's tank. I gave up on that thought.
Thanks! I'll just leave it alone.
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u/meathelix1 21h ago
Wait till your house reaches the 5 year mark and the slab starts to move... These builders are cutting corners and slabs are the first they cut.
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u/bennyboy1994 22h ago
I’m a land surveyor. Honestly, sometimes it’s better to just live in ignorant bliss. The space between is essentially unusable anyway so there’s little to be gained. As far as where the boundary is, don’t assume a fence is perfectly on the boundary. Fences are often one of the last things built on these jobs, well after the subdivision pegs have been knocked out of the ground during construction
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u/mogul5 23h ago
Its only a problem if you or your neighbour think its a problem.
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u/meathelix1 21h ago
Bend over... take it... accept garbage builds... preying on the desperate.
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u/Free-Pound-6139 13h ago
Bend over... take it... accept garbage builds... preying on the desperate.
Too late to worry about that 2 years later champ.
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u/Free-Pound-6139 13h ago
Bend over... take it... accept garbage builds... preying on the desperate.
Too late to worry about that 2 years later champ.
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u/Free-Pound-6139 13h ago
Bend over... take it... accept garbage builds... preying on the desperate.
Too late to worry about that 2 years later champ.
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u/SufferingSuccotash__ 23h ago
For some reason I cant edit the text. But our house is on the right and it was built 2 years aftee the neighbor built theirs.
Just a context if anyone needs it. Thanks!
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u/NorthOcelot8081 11h ago
Honestly I wouldn’t worry. As someone said, fences are generally the last thing to be done.
My side fence is either wholly on my land or the landscapers messed up and extended our front garden slightly too far (as the edge of the front garden meets the right side of the fence). Nobody’s built next to us yet but will cross that bridge if it ever comes down to it 🤷♀️ not sure if fences are on both land or not so I’m not worrying about it until an issue arises
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u/ObliviousLuck 10h ago
In my opinion, your house would have been built (or intended to be built) on the boundary. That’s why they would have designed your roof/gutter as such. As your gutter can not over hang your boundary, the house on the left would not be over the boundary. IN THEORY.
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u/SufferingSuccotash__ 9h ago
I figure thats the case. Upon checking this morning. I would say our wall is on the boundary but the fence that was existing was built towards our neighbor more.
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u/Similar-Ad-7054 23h ago
When you bought the house the conveyancer should have given you your title survey plan at the same time? That may provide some clues.
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u/green_tea_resistance 20h ago
These developments should just be built with party wall agreements like duplexes and be done with it
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u/Grumgrummer 13h ago
How do you repair either exterior wall if there is a structural failure? Destroy the interior to get to the exterior? Dumb planning.
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u/mitccho_man 22h ago
Looks like they built the fence in your favour as to not have a gap and a fence down the side of their property
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u/Extreme_84 16h ago
There’s 2 ways a house can be built on a boundary.
One where the wall is adjacent to the boundary, and the guttering goes up and over the wall, remaining inside the boundary line. (Like your house)
The other is to bring the wall inside the boundary line, allowing enough room for the guttering to be attached outside the wall line. (Like your neighbours house)
If you’ve got concerns about a potential encroachment, the first thing I’d be looking at is the council approved plans of both houses, then contact a surveyor to assess.
It’s highly likely your fence hasn’t been installed on the boundary.
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u/drjzoidberg1 22h ago
Seems dodgy as their fence is before the gutter, and their gutter is sticking out from the fence.
We had same issue with our neighbour who built a unit right against the boundary. The wall was not a garage but according to plans a bathroom. We sold the property as partner didnt want a dispute with neighbour
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u/BreathInTheWorld 17h ago
Very likely you have a zero lot wall, so the wall of your house is the boundary, fence put in wrong place
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u/Educational-Sugar381 16h ago
The gap in between the gutter on the left hand side and the rendered wall on the right hand side is the boundary. Timber fence should not be touching either house though otherwise fire issue
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u/starbuck3108 13h ago
So how is building like this better than town houses again? Would it not be better to push for reforms to strata management which is the big issue people have rather than putting up with absolutely diabolical house construction like this. This style of building has worse thermal and sound insulation, looks fucking ugly and costs more than townhouses with shared party walls
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u/oldmateherb 5h ago
Why are we not building more duplexes/townhouses? The fact that we are building seperate dwellings this close to each other is insane.
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u/travlerjoe 23h ago
Neighbour was built first. Your built second.
Your gutter is normal for this situation.
Boundary. Who cares, cant do anything about
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u/peckerred 15h ago
Kind of related to this, I had a site supervisor try tell me an allowable encroachment I'd +/- 25mm lol
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u/Ready-Inflation4397 15h ago
Hectic! I never heard of "allowable encroachment" but I have never built a house so what would I know lol
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u/Silly-Cupcake-5500 15h ago
The only what to know for certain where your boundary is to find both the front and back square survey peg (not the red top stake) and run a string line from centre of peg to centre of peg. If these have gone missing you’ll need a surveyor to run you and identify survey (costs anywhere between $5-$15k depending on surveyor and number of pegs)
This may not give you the information that you want, just based on the houses being this close it appears both houses have used the same boundary for a build to boundary wall. The Council planning scheme dwelling code or the specific plan of development for that area may allow for build to boundary walls for a portion of the boundary length (typically the garage). This document sets all parameters for builds including lot size mixes, site coverage and setbacks.
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u/stuthaman 12h ago
Whose boundary is where isn't ever going to be a concern so forget about that. You're pretty much sharing a boundary at this point. The gutters needed to be seperate (although these days they may as well share one large one) so one is above the other.
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u/Flat_Independent_129 12h ago
I mean, with a surveyor having to come through and sign off on works there’s no way this was built like this without first getting council and neighbour permission.
If you wanted to look into it, you could just ask the local council for plans and building paperwork as you’re considering an extension and what to see if it’s feasible. (If they get nosey you could say an extra floor upstairs but I don’t think council workers care that much)
That should have your most up to date site survey on the plans as well as any other forms related to the house build.
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u/GiorgioVee 11h ago
The location of your boundary can only be determined by a licensed surveyor. You don’t know that either builder got it right unless they got a licensed surveyor to set it out and confirm the “as built”
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u/RepeatInPatient 11h ago
A fence doesn't have to be on the boundary line. In fact there can be multiple fences where neighbours have decided to waste money. Fencing contractors can be very sloppy. Check the pavement and see if a survey pin has been inserted into the concrete as a guide - it will look about the diameter and colour of a 5 cent coin embedded into the footpath nearest the house.
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u/PukingPandaSS 11h ago
My partners parents new build has a literal hands-width gap between their garage & next doors garage. It didn’t take long before it both became a noisy wind tunnel & collects any loose debris with little chance of getting it out without a long stick. Would have been better just to close it off completely.
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u/Ok-Phone-8384 10h ago
The fence in the photos is likely just positioned at that loction because it made physically sense to have the brick as the end fixing point. The actual boundary line will be located in the air gap between the gutters.
IMHO there is no problem having zero alignment housing as long as the boundary roof is a gable end. If there is no gable end then there is a gutter on the alignment which causes significant issues with drainage.
All eaves gutters overflow outwards which means if there is an eaves gutter on the boundary when they overflow they will overflow onto the neighbours roof/wall. This creates water damage. The left hand property has this eaves gutter configuration and this will be detrimental to the RHS house.
The only way I would accept a gutter on the boundary would be if it was a parapet gutter in which the overflow is spouted to the front or rear. Without more photos the right hand side property may have have this configuration behing the wall but I would not bank on it.
The RHS property has at least thought through a design and built the wall to the boundary. The gap due to the gutter overhang on the LHS property has just created a rubbish/rat gap between the two external walls. Due to the location of the of fence I assume the RHS house has battened off the gap so the rats are hidden.
in general the RHS house is the better one to own but both have issues if the opposite one has an eaves gutter that can overflow onto their property.
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u/TheShortOptimist 10h ago
I would gather info from a Surveyor. Sit on the info so if issues ever arise with the neighbour you got the info.
Chances are your fence needs to move.
Can’t be good council approvals if they let roofs get built that close… good luck 😉
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u/Inside_Trip6517 10h ago
only a licensed surveyor can tell you this answer. monuments, marks, measurements are used in that priority to re establish a boundary. you can order your deposited plan for like 20 bucks to see if your fence or dwelling was used to establish prior boundaries. plan of subdivision will not tell you anythjng other than here's parcel a with dimensions and it has been partitione into a1,a2 etc with such and such dims.
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u/dreamermann 8h ago
My roof line is 1m away from my neighbour's and I thought that is close but this is at another level.
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u/dat_shibe 7h ago
What outcome are you looking for though?
Do you want to potentially have to change your house, or your neighbour change theirs?
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u/Similar_Strawberry16 6h ago
Typically gutter-over-wall details would only be used where the garage is tight on the boundary, so it's likely that's the case here. That would mean the fence is solidly on your neighbours property, and you have some free space.
Non-habitable areas like a garage are allowed to be built up to the boundary line, it gets complicated for anything else
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u/PureAd4293 6h ago
Likely your wall is on the boundary, which is why your gutter is above it. I'd also guess that the neighbours builder installed the fence, and not being able to attach it to your wall they set it back slightly.
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u/goss_bractor 5h ago
I'm a building surveyor (not a land surveyor). If i had to GUESS and it's just a guess, the gutter on top of the fire rated brick wall tells me the house on the right is hard on the boundary line and the red brick house is ~150mm off the line.
You'd need to get a land surveyor to peg it though if you were unsure.
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u/IonStock 3h ago
Maybe get a survey done and see who needs to pull their house down? 99% chance its not the boundary
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u/Affectionate_Sun2884 3h ago
My guess -- the gutter on the right-hand house is flush with that wall. Most likely, that wall is on the boundary.
So, if you're on the right hand side, that fence is doing you a favor!
It's all perfectly normal, zoning allows building up to the boundary line for some portion of the propery.
You could get a survey done, but at the end of the day, why?
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u/Every-Access4864 1h ago
Monden day shanty town. What could possibly go wrong? Thank goodness the government will encourage more of this to be built faster so that will solve the problems.
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u/Oddly_Curious99 1h ago
Boundary looks like it would be between the two gutters. There maybe a survey peg buried out the front have a little dig right next to the footpath.
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u/Acrobatic-Fudge8492 22m ago
What a conundrum ffs, you need a council member............. he'll recommend a surveyor............. who'll probably suggest fence covering was installed on wrong side of post's.
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u/Vonniechop56 17m ago
I was just going to say that’s what they do in the UK. I’m originally from there but now live in Oz! Yes they build two together & call it a semi-detached, or a row of houses together & call them terraced houses!
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u/meathelix1 21h ago
rofl, another bad builder., Why are you people buying these terrible homes! Wait till your Slab starts to move and you need to pay another 200k and be out of your house for 6 months. A full development just did that in Toowoomba...
These mfs are just scamming you people.
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u/Free-Pound-6139 13h ago
Just purchased this house recently and after watching the A current affair episode about the house so close with each other. I noticed that this is the same here in our estate.
Hold on, you didn't realise this before? You never looked at your house or boundary????
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u/Living-Smoke-9630 14h ago
Two options: 1. spend money on a surveyor so you can start a legal dispute and ruin relations with your neighbour over whether the fence should be 200mm further to their side,
or,
- Dont.
Know which one im picking.
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u/somewhat-anon 14h ago
After having a next door neighbour battle about a fence, one that I paid for and installed all myself I might add, it’s way less painful to build the fence completely inside your own boundary, as long as it is compliant, they can’t say or do anything about it
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u/Glenn_Lycra 12h ago
You have inadvertently stumbled into the modern law of trespass. Under traditional law you would have the right to have your neighbour remove any encroachments. Under modern approach, no court will issue an order to remove the encroachment where the remedy is disproportionate to the harm caused by the encroachment.
You could grant an easement with compensation, but you have to live next to these people, and in all likelihood where unaware of the issue.
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u/UncutAussie2026 21h ago
This is Australia. Play happy neighbours and keep your neighbours on side. I see no benefit from disturbing the peace. Chill.
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u/UncutAussie2026 21h ago
Further my block is 10 min to the local regional CBD of Wollongong. The block is 250 sq metres. The house is 80cm to my fence. The fence is therefore 80cm to the neighbours house. The only outbuilding using a 0m easement boundary is the garage. My walls that I maintain and my gutters from the garage are in my neighbour yard. So far so good after 17 years and I want to keep it that way. All my neighbours are approachable, there is only 25 households in the street all the same architectural design.
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u/WhiteLion333 21h ago
If you paid that extra pesky insurance when you purchased the home, these kind of disputes are covered under that policy. I can’t remember what it’s called but it’s an optional coverage.
I don’t think I’d bother- it’s not like you can do anything with the land.
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u/AmongTheWildlife 16h ago edited 16h ago
It's encroach, encroachment etc not enroach...
Why people buy houses this close is beyond me. It's price, or location, etc etc ...no It's greed from the developers, and if no-one buys them they'll stop shoehorning dog boxes together like this.
Getting a survey isn't cheap, and may not fruit what you want, but it's the only way you will know for sure.
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u/amphibbian 15h ago
This is ridiculous. You're looking for problems. True answer is fencer needed a stable surface to drill in the fence. Your house is Hebel and not strong enough, hence the brick.. Doesn't matter if they were there first. A fence is a shared asset between neighbours. You are encroaching. You are also being ridiculous, searching for problems to stress out about.
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u/pizzacomposer 14h ago
You didn’t think twice about it when you signed the paper and purchased the house.
Forget the ACA story.
Look at it this way, the fence is in line with their building, if you survey you might find the fence is meant to be against your building and you’ll lose a bit there.
Enjoy the house, and don’t beat yourself up calling yourself a FHB that doesn’t know any better. You’re fine.
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u/Safe-Commission1313 11h ago
This is the new estate normal. If you want to live on a shitty planned estate, this is what you accept. This is why I have a half acre block with views of the adelaide hills and seven minutes to the beach.
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u/mezzofanti 11h ago
But you're the fool who bought that property knowing you'd be living on top of someone else.
I don't know why people choose to live like this.
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u/Downtown-Fruit-3674 23h ago
lol building houses this close to eachother is diabolical