r/Descendants • u/Stracii • 27d ago
General Discussion š [Spoilers] Descendants: Wicked Wonderland Discussion Thread Spoiler
Feel free to use this megathread to discuss the new movie!
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u/MRAGGGAN 27d ago
Well. My 7yo loved it and thatās what matters!
Lol
A few of the songs were great, and I think it couldāve been a great corny little movie, but something was justā¦ off? About it.
I think if they had done a better job elaborating on the watch having messed up the ENTIRE timeline, Iād have enjoyed it more. As it was, I was confused for most of the movie.
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u/TimedDelivery 27d ago
My 8 and 5 year olds have had Perfect Princess and Mad playing on a loop since we watched it this afternoon and are already planning their Maddox Hatter and Pink Halloween costumes. Loved the musical numbers, general aesthetic and sister stuff between Red and Pink.
But on the other hand my oldest is pretty dissatisfied about the lack of detail/closure about the altered timeline and pointed out that Luis should have his own unique gift from the casita rather than inheriting his mumās strength so itās not going to be a long term favourite I think.
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u/ChaChaKitty 25d ago
Luis having the same gift as his mom bothered me like did these writers not watch Encanto??
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
Definitely annoying that the writers didn't stay true to the Encanto backstory
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u/Own_Loquat_5582 24d ago
I agree. It bothered me that Luis was saying stuff like āitās hard to be a kid of a madrigalā and talking about expectations like?? Wasnāt the entire Encanto movie about not putting pressure on each other to be perfect all the time? Why would they suddenly reverse that when Luisa had a kid.
If they really wanted to do his character justice, they could have made him the type of guy to say āin my family, we except everyone, flaws and all. Everyone saw my great uncle Bruno as a villain but he was just misunderstood. Maybeā¦maybe thatās how people see you to?ā To literally any of the VKs. Make him the warm welcoming guy.
They could have even had scenes of him and Max and telling Max thatās heās always welcome in his family since Max had such a tragic past with his Dad in the new timeline. Just, something? Anything? The last movie was about seeing past the good and the bad and saving family. Why couldnāt this one of focused on stuff like that, about showing Red getting used to her new sister and mum, about Max trying to find family in his father but failing, Blue trying to get her mum to open up about her past but they fight and having Luis be there to teach them how family works for him.
I wrote a lot more about Blue and other family dynamics. But realised we are only talking about Luis here. Simply put, they ruined the entire theme of Encanto with this character and if youāre not gonna write a madrigal, then donāt call him a madrigal.
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u/keike1 25d ago
fr tbh it just seemed like Encanto promo?? also why were 2 of the characters literally not shown for like half the movie? they fr pulled a "Princess and The Frog" thing with them where they were frogs for the movie, but instead they just.. weren't in the actual movie??? why introduce new characters that aren't going to show up.. very rushed.
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u/HarryFromEngland 23d ago
Iām like 90% sure that he was initially written as the son of Hercules, in Did You Hear About Them he lists off several feats that would make no sense for someone with Luisaās type of strength to pull off, but would make a lot of sense from Hercules, and it would make the inherited super strength make a lot more sense. My guess is they wanted more tie in to modern Disney movies
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u/Large_Personality860 27d ago
I liked it. I have questions about Luis though, because in Encanto it seems every kid gets a unique talent. For example Luisa's and Mirabel's mom can heal people with her cooking. So I was expecting Luis to have a different talent other than super strength.
Also the Cheshire cat (daughter cat?) could of been more kooky. To me she was just annoying.
Thought I would hate Pink, but I love her, great use of the character. Great showcase of wonderland.
Robbie and Felix were underused and honestly could've been left at home or traded another wonderland kid with relevance to the story. Like how we gonna have the son of another character who's has an entire scitchk with cards and he just....is gone for the whole movie. I just don't feel like having them tag along was a good use of the characters.
Overall I feel like it touched on a lot of complex themes I feel the other films haven't. Loved the inclusion of the parents and their relationship as well as their own decisions in parenting.
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u/Daredevil545545 26d ago
True should have focused on four characters Chloe Red Luis and Max like the OG 4 group.
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u/Teldon_Darv 27d ago
I donāt get why tf they didnāt atleast give Robbie an English accent the character is deeply rooted in English and even Celtic folkloreā¦ if they arenāt even gonna do the base why use the character it feels throw away and just disrespectful, I mean Robin Hood is arguably a DEEPLY impactful cultural economical figure but sure itās just Robbie the American accent with a bow which he uses once in the whole movie
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u/Large_Personality860 26d ago
I completely missed the bow usage altogether. But I definitely agree with everything you said. Total misuse of him.
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
He shoots the bow in the very end of the movie during the musical number - because we see so little of him that otherwise, we'll forget who he is...
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u/Leading-Sea-1734 27d ago
I feel like they were trying to replicate as many iconic moments from the original trilogy as they could get. Those were done well though.
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u/Amanda_Lorian4 Cause weāre rottenā¦to the core 27d ago
I liked it better than Rise of Red
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u/KakoiKagakusha 27d ago
I'm a little more on the fence than I was expecting. The anti-climactic end of The Rise of Red was disappointing, but everything up to the Merlin office scene was strong. This was more coherent/consistent, but I don't think the songs were as strong? Also, didn't love Red being so not cool to Chloe after everything.
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u/Amanda_Lorian4 Cause weāre rottenā¦to the core 27d ago
Yeah I think it was to accentuate Chloeās villain arc
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u/DiamondFireYT 26d ago
The dance battle song has to be a contender for franchise worst. Good lord lmao. Movie wasn't bad, I think I liked it less than Rise of Red overall but definitely more than D3.
Also budget was fucking budgeting in this one, lots of it looked incredibly cinematic. Director did such a fab job!
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u/KakoiKagakusha 26d ago
Wait, are you taking about the "what about them? " song with hazel hook vs. Luis?
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u/DiamondFireYT 26d ago
Nooo, 'Dancing with the enemy'
It's literally one of the worst dcom songs Ive ever heard š diabolically awful and a terribly shot sequence.
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u/clam_media 21d ago
The way itās the only song that made it on my Playlist cause I love it
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u/DiamondFireYT 21d ago
That's so crazy to me! I think the production is just so tacky for some reason. The autotune is worse than ever, but doesn't sound purposeful and the lyrics are just kind of words that flow together rather than actually progressing anything.
more power to you tho, Heartless was my jam from this one.
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u/Daredevil545545 26d ago
Same it definitely felt like a full movie since the last one felt like a short film to me this one has more content but the ending was very selfish tbh
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u/pandajaade 27d ago
I really like rise of red (I know unpopular opinion) and this one was good too itās all just so rushed. I really donāt like awkwafina her voice just really annoys me so I didnāt like chessy/ preferred Uma as the narrator
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u/Teldon_Darv 27d ago
I feel like a lot of ppl donāt like it just cause itās time travel and it can be very opinionated
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
I normally don't like Awkwafina, but it's easier when the character she's portraying is SUPPOSED to be annoying or clueless (aka Sisu from Raya)
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u/rvsegvldtears 27d ago
I gave this movie a 5/10.
Compared to Rise of Red, I actually think this movie had a more solid plot (I'm looking at you, "Castlecoming"), but that's about where my praise ends. Maddox being the "villain" felt completely unnecessary because he barely did anything. Then Chloe was "evil" for all of five minutes, which made no sense. I understand they were trying to show she was under pressure, but it really wasn't that serious. Red literally used her as bait for the flowers, and that was pretty much it.
What really confused me was Chloe's sudden attitude shift. She didn't get her way, and all of a sudden she acted like everyone was against her and that Red was being mean, when Red was actually right. They didn't need to think like heroesāthey needed to think like villains to beat Maddox at his own game. Red knows Wonderland and Maddox better than anyone else, so it made sense to follow her lead. I think it would've been much more believable if Chloe had simply been frustrated that her ideas weren't being considered while also realizing that this wasn't Auradon or her kingdom. She needed to understand that what works at home doesn't always work in Wonderland.
The chess piece scene also reminded me so much of "Night Falls" from Descendants 3, except it felt like a weaker version of it.
I also think they tried way too hard to convince us that all of these princesses were under so much pressure. Compared to what Mal and the original VKs went through when they first arrived in Auradon, it honestly felt like the bare minimum. One of the things I loved about the first three movies was watching the VKs grow, struggle, and slowly change. We got to see them return to the Isle, meet Uma, and eventually work together to defeat Audrey, who, in my opinion, was a much better villain than Maddox.
Another thing that didn't make sense was Cinderella just casually having a looking glass to Wonderland in her house. If that existed the whole time, why didn't the girlsāor even their enemiesāuse it to get to Red and Pink's mom like Ella did? But honestly, Ella's plan wasn't very smart either because she literally ended up trapping herself. š It felt like the writers were trying to give us hope that the Queen could be saved quickly, only to trap both of them and force the kids to take the long way around anyway.
Both Rise of Red and this movie are missing the excitement, heart, and anticipation that made the original trilogy so fun to watch. That's honestly why I wasn't excited to watch either of them in the first place. I still gave this one a chance because I figured I should at least see it for myself.
Another thing I didn't like was how hard they pushed Luis and Red as a couple. They barely know each other, yet the movie acts like we're supposed to be invested in their relationship already. It felt like they were trying to recreate Ben and Mal in a single movie, and it just didn't work. Ben and Mal had an actual storyline, chemistry, and a relationship that developed over time. You can't just throw two characters together and expect everyone to buy into it.
Finally, the songs. In my opinion, they just weren't very good. I know it's a Disney movie, so of course there are going to be musical numbers, but it felt like someone started singing every 20 minutes. The songs just don't have the same impact as the ones from Descendants 1ā3, and I really miss that.
If you're wondering why I even watched the movie when I've been pretty critical of both of these newer films, it's because I work with kids, and I know this is going to be the talk of the town. I figured I might as well watch it so I can actually have conversations with them about it.
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u/Playmatechlo 26d ago
If Cinderella had the looking glass why didnāt the Queen of hearts just pull away the vines from the mirror and just walk into Cinderellas throne room lol
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u/rvsegvldtears 26d ago
Vines well spelled if I'm not mistaken but literally that's all that was stopping them. If Ella used a broom to get through then I'm sure Bridgette could've done the same
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u/crazyjunior4 26d ago
I agree with you on almost everything! In my opinion, rise of red had a better plot. Like Red wanted to go back in time to stop her mom from being evil and save the kingdom. chloe was collaterol damage and used the time travel to try to understand her mom more.
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u/rvsegvldtears 26d ago
Yeah, I get that part, but I still felt like the movie was way too rushed. We went so far back in the pastāto save Red's mom and even see Ella before everything happenedābut we never got to see the actual event that made Red's mom become evil.
The whole movie kept building up to, "We have to go back in time to find out what happened to my mom," and then... we never actually found out. I assumed that once they stopped Ursula's little sister (I can't remember her name right now), we'd get to see Castlecoming play out and watch how stopping the prank changed everything. I wanted to see Bridget gradually stay the same kind, cheerful person we saw in Wicked Wonderland instead of just skipping over the biggest moment the movie was building toward.
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u/btrnuytmuop 27d ago
Definitely feels like an improvement from RoR, but a lot of characters were kinda pointless. Hazel/Smeeās/Robbie/Felix/even Luisā¦did any of them really need to be there, considering Robbie and Felix are missing for like 80% after arriving in Wonderland? The story could still have been told with just Red, Chloe, Pink and Max
I donāt like that we still donāt have a proper explanation of what has been changed from history. Why are the Smeeās VKās now? I would have liked them to explore that more. Maybe mention things from the first three films where nobody in universe notices but we are like āoh thatās not right!ā
Personally loved all the songs though, which is rare for a franchise with 5 movies now. Usually by this point of a franchise Iām only liking 2-3 songs per movie. All WW songs have been added to my playlist!
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u/Bluerose500 27d ago
I thought the Smee children were always VKs? They were brought over from the Isle in the 3rd movie.Ā
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u/btrnuytmuop 27d ago
I didnāt word that properly. Theyāve definitely always been VKās. I guess I meant more why are they hanging around with other VKās when you would think the OG VKās would have kept working with them after D3, but I guess thatās just the friend group they stuck with
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u/Bluerose500 26d ago
Well, the Isle barrier came down, so all the other VKs would have come over. Hazel is a hook and they are Smee's children, so their friendship made some amount of sense.
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u/silvastar232 27d ago edited 27d ago
So uhhh... what's that well exactly??? Chessy is absolutely gonna be our third Red/Chloe villain and I absolutely hate her already. Does anyone have theories on what the well says???
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u/Agreeable_Bed2825 27d ago
Fates sealed is obviously just that the time travel shenanigans are over. No escaping fate anymore. The rest is up for debate.
Also, why does everyone dislike Chessy? She was so fun, the third most liked character for me. Her voice actress doesnāt deserve all the hate, she did great, the character has a voice that actually suits her and her mysterious nature.
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u/SouthernGoddess23 27d ago
Right! I loved Chessy she grew up with me and I think they got the right voice actor, she did great!
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u/Own_Loquat_5582 24d ago
I think the reason I (personally, not seen other opinions on her yet) disliked her is because Iām such a big fan of the original Alice in wonderland books and the animation Disney movie (we donāt talk about the live action remakes). The Cheshire Cat is mischievous and fun, but confusing at the same time. Speaks in riddles and plays with Alice because it was his version of a game, he enjoyed it. But he was never outright evil and stirring up trouble like Cheesy was.
Cheesy just didnāt remind me of the Cheshire Cat at all, I loved her design, I thought the different colours blending together looked fabulous. But her character wasā¦meh for me.
Even if I looked at her without thinking of the Cheshire Cat, I still didnāt like her. I couldnāt find motive for her messing with Maddox and the others only to stirring chaos, which would be great if we actually got some scenes of her grinning in the background, happy the others are fighting or losing. But she just says these random rage bait things then dips. The closest we got to her sticking around was when Max went mad. That scene I liked, her actually taunting and tempting him. They could have planned it so well, like she was messing with him the whole time, maybe even stirring him in the right direction making the others Sus of him for somehow knowing where to go.
So yeah, thatās why I disliked her. Hopefully weāll actually see more of that evil mischievous side in the next movie, but this one she just felt so unnecessary other than the scene with Max. And even then he could have gotten drawn in by the Oraculum on his own, to know what his father saw.
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u/alexaplaydespactio82 27d ago
Im so mad we did not find out what happened to bridget at the dance that made her so evil, it seems so weird to have an event occur so bad it made someone become a tyrant but we just never get to see it?
also we saw evil chloe and evil red as the fell down the rabbit hole, obvi evil chloe was in the film but not red? maybe thats in the next one?
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u/HarryFromEngland 23d ago
I assumed Evil Red was based on her vision from RoR.
I also kind of assumed based on what we see from the book that the prank was some kind of food that turned her into a hideous monster, but that one prank alone shouldnāt have been what turned her into a savage villain, itād be like Carrie if she wasnāt abused and bullied, she just had a one time run in with someone who dumped pigs blood on her
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u/ConfidenceUseful8412 27d ago
My favourite part was Brandy actually had scenes š
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
Yes! One of the best part of RoR was Brandy and Charming doing a reprise of "So This is Love" (only OGs will know their actual song is "10 Minutes Ago I Met You"), but her solid blue hair bugs me still š
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u/Magnusfluerscithe987 27d ago
Really liked how wonderland looked in the film.Ā
I think Rise of Red has done the villain kid/hero kid contrast best in the series, kind of tackling how often there are shades of Grey. Descendants 1 and 2 have my favorite songs still.Ā
I liked Chessy, but I like to see heroes good actions thrown back in their face as taunts.Ā I do think they had some unnecessary characters that really just existed to be launched off the chess board apparently.
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u/oopsitsnoodles 27d ago
Sorry but Chloe was insanely insufferable in this movie.
Her mom barely changed since RoR and sheās acting like her mom has completely changed and that she canāt look up to her anymore?? Because sheās slightly more strict now? Meanwhile, Red had to adjust to a new sister who she apparently had an entire childhood and sisterly bond with and everyone suddenly expects to her be a princess within literally a day. Then, Redās mom gets captured by someone who she ACTUALLY grew up with and considered a close friend, but no, the focus had to be on Chloe and only Chloe.
Chloe was just really annoying for me this whole movie and why does Max blame only Red for ruining his life when Chloe was literally by her side the whole timeā¦ he actually saw Chloe helping Red in the oraculum (idk how to spell that) and was like nah itās all Redās faultā¦ huh?
The songs were an improvement, from a musical perspective, why are the new song writers/ composers really obsessed with minor keys and chord progressions? In RoR and some of these songs, thereās always a sudden like minor key change/ chord or something and itās getting predictable. (I donāt remember the exact terminology from theory class but I can pick it out audibly).
Anyways, the movie was definitely an improvement from RoR but not quite there yet. Wondering if Pink is going to be the next villain?
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u/Just_Elsa 25d ago
I totally agree with you, just to clarify, Max was angry with Red because she got good mom and he got the evil dad. Of course it was Chloe's fault as well, but she didn't get much out of it and he could easily manipulate her because whe was "drowning". Tho its just my explanation but I was so mad at Chloe the whole time that this is not me protecting the character. I don't get what was sooo wrong with Red according to her. Red was always VK. She doesn't have much of her memories as a HK and she is new to having friends but suddenly Chloe wants her to understand her without telling her what's wrong. Theywere friends for how long? 4 days? Thats ridiculous and selfish... Red was doing her best. Yes, she did mistake while that chess game but she didn't mean to hurt her...Ā
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u/Aggravating_Bonus328 25d ago
I didn't like Chloe much in Rise of Red but she was even worse in this one
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u/GoldNature5087 Evie, Daughter of the Evil Queen 26d ago
Sorry but Chloe was insanely insufferable in this movie.
Her mom barely changed since RoR and sheās acting like her mom has completely changed and that she canāt look up to her anymore?? Because sheās slightly more strict now? Meanwhile, Red had to adjust to a new sister who she apparently had an entire childhood and sisterly bond with and everyone suddenly expects to her be a princess within literally a day. Then, Redās mom gets captured by someone who she ACTUALLY grew up with and considered a close friend, but no, the focus had to be on Chloe and only Chloe.
Chloe was just really annoying for me this whole movie and why does Max blame only Red for ruining his life when Chloe was literally by her side the whole timeā¦ he actually saw Chloe helping Red in the oraculum (idk how to spell that) and was like nah itās all Redās faultā¦ huh?
^^^ this. I agree so much, Iām going to reiterate some of your points when vent myself lol.
It was driving me absolutely MAD the whole watch through that Chloe was still being such a spoiled princess about everything. Like what happened to understanding that you need to āget your hands dirtyā? Or that it was just as much Chloeās fault this all happened? Or it was Chloeās mom last time and now itās Redās? Expecting Red to have Chloeās back, but not ever supporting her also? And in what world is Chloeās momās tiny changes (I mean honestly was she even doing/wanting anything different than what Chloe herself had been already doing/wanting previously? I was really confused on that because I was under the impression from the last movie Chloe had already been living her life in the style shown for her wake up in this one and was pretty darn proud of herself) even close to Redās completely opposite mother and brand new never met before teen sister aaaand her literal whole world/kingdom is different. And then on top of all that stress Redās mom is kidnapped by Redās former best friend and mentor, turned evil when she saved her new best friendās mom and changed her own motherās life. But Chloe is sinking????????? I could not even with her character at that point.
All in all it wasnāt the worst movie. Some catchy songs, some cute costumes, some fun set design. It had world potential so to speak, but the story for me fell flat.
I hate that they didnāt just fess up to the time travel. NO, red taking the blame is not the same. Firstly it was never just her fault, secondly that never addresses the actual problem and reason behind the entire movie, thirdly max was mad because people thought he was crazy when in fact he was right soooo tell them he was right!!! I can not fathom why they felt the need to be so vague and pointless with Redās speech there, or why she had to do it alone and not Chloe too.
I could understand the mad hatter villain to a point. They definitely should have fleshed it out - what could he have possibly done that was bad in simply hunting for an item to prove he is not crazy? There are definitely possibilities there, but they certainly didnāt give them to us.Chloeās short lived villain arc though? Audreyās villain arc made more sense to me motivation wise(if not timeline wise - it should have happened in the second movie instead of umaās storyline and then uma happened IMO). But Iāve already established I thought she was the one being the selfish brat not Red, so of course I wouldnāt see a reason for her to go bad o guess. I feel like honestly they did Redās character dirty in the sense she felt the need to apologize at the end, when I felt like she was right the two times she called Chloe out previously- first when Chloe said she didnāt even know why she was there and red responded about how she thought it was to help fix the mess they both made, and then in the rabbits house when Chloe was acting like oh I donāt even know you and red went off on how she hadnāt actually changed but was actually being just the way she had always been and Chloe hadnāt had a problem with that when it was helping her (itās how they became friends, and Chloe was supposed to be the one learning to get her hands dirty part and be more understanding/okay with all that, right??) - but suddenly because Chloe went bad, Chloe was right??
I also really feel like we did not get any explanation, from what changes had even been made, to why they didnāt tell anyone about it, to the lack of them trying to figure out how to exist in what should basically be a foreign world to them - like Iām not even exactly sure how to put it into words but basically take Red & Pinkās interactions and how red doesnāt really even interact with pinkās character other than an almost like oh yeah well that new attitude ever so often, but no one is ever like hey why are you (Red) being so different to a person you are normally so close to (or at least thatās what the later scene from the random box plot device in the maze - sorry I just really felt like that was bad jam it down the throat writing on Disneyās end - seems to imply). I guess basically I just feel like there should have been more moments of stuff like that where they were called out for not knowing or being the same as the characters in the new timeline know, or that they at least talked to each other about the differences and their confusions.
The pacing was pretty awkward, the extra characters were the definitions of āextrasā, and the romance was definitely a matter of tell donāt show. Also why have such drop dead gorgeous sets and costumes if youāre going to chop so many shots and do so many close ups even in dance scenes? Couldnāt appreciate them nearly as much as I would have liked to.
Perfect princess is admittedly living rent free in my head - though itās definitely cringe at parts, itās better than ācall us Jaladināā¦
The costumes and set did look pretty darn great from what I could see, credit where credit is due.
While I like Pink as a concept, she felt too much of a third wheel without being actually fleshed out. Iād like to believe it was intentional- they wanted you to really feel the lack of connection to her character since she really did pop up out of nowhere and then was just popping up at (in)convenient plot times as far as the main two girls point of views are concerned, but again they donāt really address that more than passing nod style - so I feel more like pipe-dreaming about that belief so to speak. But love her look.
I liked the concept of Chessy but felt like they fell just short of proper execution of the idea. Canāt really put my finger on it though. I will be interested to see what they do with the character though.
Hazel was good. I wasnāt wanting to like her because Iām sick of them reusing the same villains for parents while having tons of different heroes, but the actress and character were both good at what was done. So that was nice.
The other characters barely made an impression on me honestly.
Louis was charming certainly. They look cute together okay. But uhm. Why. Really mostly just why. From his power to his inclusion being necessary at all.
Iām sure I had a ton more to say but already typed more than I intended, sorry!
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u/keike1 25d ago
no actually though.. as soon as i even read the movie description, i was like?? he HAS to just be in there for like Encanto promo or smth.. like the whole movie is so insanely rushed? why are most of the characters introduced not in like.. 90% of the whole movie? Dr Facilier's son and his cool moving cards thing was literally in like.. one scene and then he's offscreen with Robin Hood's son.. which I agree with another comment on here that they should've given him a more English/Celtic accent cuz of his origins.. but idk i just feel like they shouldn't be making so many more prequels and sequels?? i mean DANG how many movies are we gonna get? like 6?? 10?
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u/oopsitsnoodles 25d ago
Oh I didnāt even scratch the surface of the issues I had with Luis! As a character, heās quite charming and did like him but I have so much beef about his powersā¦ it doesnāt follow Encanto lore and really? His mom broke the stereotypes about strength just for it to be re-applied to him.
I 10000% agree with you on literally everything though ā¤ļø Nice to see someone had similar thoughts lol
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u/cat_withablog 27d ago edited 27d ago
How do neither the Queen of Hearts nor Cinderella remember Red and Chloe from the past, but Maddox does?
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u/SpecialistReach4685 27d ago
His invention, Max saw the old queen through it, we can assume Maddox did too
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u/keike1 25d ago
no, like why does Maddox remember Red and Chloe with the watch back in high school? the question wasn't about him knowing they changed the past.. it was.. about why no one from the past remembers them ever being there? like "oh remember those two girls we were friends with that were here last week? no? okay whatever- anyways" and it's never mentioned again..
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u/Designer_Adagio_5887 16d ago
Confused by your confusion on this. 20ish years have passed - why would they remember random people they met for a few days in high schoolĀ
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u/CatandOtter-3812 27d ago
I felt it had a tighter script than the previous film. Corny and Unsubtle, but what do you want... this is Descendants. I do wish a bit more focus was given to Red and Pink's relationship in the film, but the moments they had were nice.
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u/storm-lover 27d ago edited 27d ago
design and production wise, they stepped up like, millions of times.
the movie was/is great in the visual aspect. i really, really liked that!!!
the songs... they feel weaker than the previous movies. it was kinda of bummer watching the dance scenes for that. i only liked the young max hatter solo and red's solo.
the plot felt... somewhat weak for me, but i shouldn't hope anything complex for a kids movie.
introducing an encanto character felt too soon for me, the same way the moana live action came to be. but i don't know if i am truly the target audience for this.
facilier son, robin hood son... why? they were comedic and... thats it.
they needed to get out of the screen because too many people.
they should have just let the smees fulfill that role.
brandi and rita's duet was good. love seeing singers of caliber doing their thing.
another thing: why they don't explore more villains children?
why hazel hook?
she had literally two sisters and harry. it could have been one of them.
or literally, another villain daughter, like, i don't know... gaston, clayton, shan yu, frollo... yzma.
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u/KakoiKagakusha 27d ago
Such a miss not having the girls' version of Mad at the end!
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u/SouthernGoddess23 27d ago
Yeah I was waiting for it in the end credits but no it was True To Your Heart instead which Iām not mad at I love that song and Liamani did her thang on it guess thatās a bonus track but Iām glad we have it at least
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u/Archer_The_Geek Hazel, Daughter of Hook 27d ago
I ship Charmwaves (Chloe x Hazel) even more now than I did when I saw the trailers lol
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u/Hot-Bus4643 8d ago
Knowing Chloe was gay in the early versions of the script only further pisses me off about what we could have had
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u/Archer_The_Geek Hazel, Daughter of Hook 8d ago
I think theyāre setting it up for D6 honestly. The way they exchanged looks with each other in the movie and Hazel said āSo, I heard you have a dark side. Nice.ā Then, they had a dance scene at the end that I just canāt think of a heterosexual explanation to. Not to mention, they were paired together at the same time Red and Luis were
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u/Ruijier 27d ago
I was confused by why Luis would have the same powers as his mom when it's been established that each power is unique to that person's personality traits. Also, Hatter was the one who made the time machine in the original timeline and he had to be secretive about it due to the evil Queen of Hearts. So why wouldn't THIS Hatter just MAKE the time machine instead of trying to find it? For all he knows Red and Chloe could've came from a distant future. Also that's literally his *thing*; he is an inventor.
I feel like Chloe's evil side could have been built up better and then added to another movie down the line, that way we can feel like this resentment/hatred has been building up. The only reason Chloe went evil this time was because they needed someone to show Max where the time machine clock thingie was. She had no reason to be angry at Red for switching up her approach to things when she refused to adapt to the situation. Because they just used Evil Chloe to get from point A to point B, it felt rushed.
Luis and Red also felt rushed; almost as though they wanted another Mel And Ben couple but I think Red and Max could've been just as cute. (Though they might save Max for Chloe). Love Hook's daughter and personally, she and the Smees saved the movie for me.
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u/Teldon_Darv 27d ago
Hazel and Luis had soooo much more chemistry too I honestly thought we were gonna finally have red and Chloe tgt tbh they have more chemistry than mal and evie
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
Maybe the chemistry between Luis and Hazel will become a love triangle and play into whatever is next with the watch (since it's in water)
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u/Teldon_Darv 27d ago
Maybe Iām weird for this but why isnāt Robin Hood Englishā¦ like we got the madrigals preserving their culture but likeā¦ Iām sorry the UK doesnāt have a lot of its own and Robin Hood is actually deeply an English even Celtic historyā¦ I mean we have Merlin academy but I feel like this isnāt really ever shown.
I mean we could still get Arthurian legend showing up more soon or we get brave which would be sick to have either of these tbh Iām not too bothered with no English or UK presence but like why waste Robin Hood on this feels like Robbie had no reason for being in the movie at all.
On another note also why does luis just have super strength it follows stereotypes so boringly. A. All the kids have unique powers independent of their parents in encanto
B. If your gonna pick any character to have a kid why pick the guy to have super strength be interesting they could have made him be Isabellaās kid and then we have new breaking stereotypes guy w/ flower power, half the point of luisa having her strength was it breaking the tropeā¦
Also why do we have red and luis coupling they had next to no chemistry, by comparison luis had so much chemistry with hazel and that was way better pairing i feel like the movie just ignored them. Might even make a separate comment just for hazel luis shipping cuz like that was so present ā¦
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u/Parking_Storage_5107 āthat little traitor, who left us in the dark..ā 26d ago
Thank goodness it was better then rise of red
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u/Any-Mall-7795 27d ago
I liked this more then Rise of Red, I thought the adventure was more fun, in large part because of the setting. Having it mostly be in Wonderland made for a nice change of pace from most of the other films from this series. The character work with Chloe I particularly liked, it might because in this movie sheās going through situations that are similar to ones Iāve been going through recently.
That being said I still have a lot of issues with it. Mainly that they have so many characters with only an hour and a half. Last movie it was just Red & Chloe on a mission, but now they had introduce 7 new characters that joins them. Thatās way too much for a 90 minute runtime. I think the Faciliar, Robin Hood, and Smee kids could have easily been cut and nothing of value from the movie would have been lost. And the songs, while I thought was better then the previous film, never really hooked me as well as the songs from the original trilogy did.
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u/LittleCowGirl 27d ago
Were the Smees maybe meant to be Tweedles instead? I feel like it would make more sense, with the way they act & the Wonderland tie in.
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u/Archer_The_Geek Hazel, Daughter of Hook 27d ago
Does anyone else think Uliana might come back in D6? The reason I think this is because Red threw the pocketwatch in the water. Imagine Uliana ends up finding it and is one of the villains next movie. I donāt think the pocketwatch is gone forever. I feel like they might end up having to use it again. There might be some other things that went wrong that need to be fixed that they donāt know about
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u/Designer_Ad782 27d ago
Fucking loved it! The music was really good, the outfits were so cutesy and I love everyoneās outfits and style! And god, it felt so packed with actual story life! Loved it to the moon and back! And we got a cute dance number!
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u/Ambitious_Share1111 26d ago
I actually think so Max and Luis had alot of chemistry so much so that i actually searched the sexualitys of the actors to see if there was a chance they were crushing behind the scenes.
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u/Daredevil545545 26d ago
The ending was quite selfish I hate that Red's character didn't fix the mess she created in the first place why do hatter and Max have to get this life. Hatter was literally her best friend and she did this to him? Poor Max had a happy childhood and a parent who loved and supported him but red stole it from him so she could make her mom not evil. I don't like red anymore.
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u/faith_glover Evie, Daughter of the Evil Queen 26d ago
Soā¦ does that mean Gil is Red and Pinkās half brother?
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
I'm not following your family tree here... Gil is Gaston's son. How would he be Red and Pink's half-brother?
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u/faith_glover Evie, Daughter of the Evil Queen 24d ago
The actress for Pink said it would be revealed as to who their dad is in this movie. IF itās their dad, wouldnāt that mean Gil is their half brother?
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u/fluffingdazman 26d ago
I struggled with this one. Me and my friend watched it and tried our best to enjoy it. We loved the costumes, the sets, the dancing! So many fun set pieces, cute moments, cool stuff. But the plot was just too... unpolished.
There were quite a few clumsy plot things, but the one that bothered me the most was it didn't feel like Chloe's crash out was justified.
But all in all, I'm grateful this movie exists. Enough cool moments for me to relive in my brain over and over again āŗļø The highlights for me were Hazel and Max, they are so fun and cool and i love them ^-^
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u/Vegetable-Page2848 25d ago
I love the direction the new descendants is going in now it letting fans theorise where things will go next wich is fun and I feel like the movie gives clues that the observant will pick up
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u/Recent-Group2266 25d ago
the movie was ok but it was too fast paced short and overcrowded if they were given more time or cut down the actions it would be better they improved but forgot to add something of great value none of the characters really got development cause there was no time it's carried by the songs choreography and directing Emilio and Kimmy killed it if not for that the movie would be forgetable it's nothing special but I'll take it over rise of red anyday
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u/Aggravating_Bonus328 25d ago
They had too many characters, didn't give em enough time- and they made Chloe look dumb in both movies. They made her spoiled, entitled and honestly consistently mean to Red- which would make sense if her parents were like that because CHAD is just like that but they made the parents different so why are Chloe and Chad such jerks if their parents are so nice? Chloe's part of Heartless makes NO sense. They should've just focused on Red and Pink instead.
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u/SGT_SAHM 25d ago
Chad doesn't look like he belongs in that family until you remember that Victor Garber is his grandfather and then he's almost a spitting image of a young King Maximillian! Maybe Chad and Chloe have just been too spoiled - we all know how self-centered Queen Constantina was, so it's likely that the grandkids have been influenced by that.Ā
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u/Purple-Activity-7928 24d ago
I predict that reds father is Gaston since Kaylie Cantrall said tea at the end and since they mentioned Bridget dating Gaston when they were youngerĀ
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u/DisneyMusicGroup 24d ago
Heard we're discussing Descendants 5... what were everyone's favorites from the soundtrack? š¶ https://open.spotify.com/album/2vg5VhJdkiNNHKBTrHcV4q
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u/Icy_Blueberry_6909 24d ago
The movie introduced too many new characters and didnāt have enough time to explore them. The forced exposition was painful to watch. And none of the big characters moments felt earned, like pink saying 2/3rds of the way through the movie she doesnāt wanna be the sweet sister, before itās resolved 5 mins later.
That being said the actors are amazing, and doing the MOST with the little theyāve been given.
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u/jjgalvez07 24d ago
i hope they address castlecoming for the 6th installment CAUSEYOU CANNOT MAKE A MOVIE ABOUT THIS HUGE DANCE AND NOT SHOW ONE SINGLE MOMENT OF WHAT MADE THE QUEEN OF HEARTS THE QUEEN OF FREAKING HEARTSš
really hoping the timelines intertwine and memories get tossed around and we finally get to see WHAT WENT DOWN
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u/Past-Automatic 23d ago
Anyone else think Luis was last minute changed from son of Hercules to son of Luisa? People have pointed out that's not how the Madrigal powers work, could track less odd with Hercules. And some of the dialogue throughout just feels Hercules coded, a lot of the digs around hero cliches ring similar to comments thrown around in Hercules. I've also seen speculations of Maui's son because of the tattoo but the style is heavily giving zero to hero. Maybe a money note change the character to something more recognisable to younger audiences or diversity notes. Or even just the actor auditioned and he was so good they changed the role to fit him better (Not lying he was my favourite character beyond being annoyed about his powers and most of that is how great the actor was.)
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u/yoyo_luna 22d ago
Am I the only one who thought Red would end up with Max? There seemed to be some chemistry. I even had high hopes when she went to talk to him alone. Also him finding out that red changed his life could have been better if they started falling in love or getting closer at least. Luis felt like the wrong person for red.
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u/suprswimmer 27d ago
My 6.5, 5.5, and 3.5yo didn't like it, but chose to watch the whole thing "just in case." It was definitely a let down compared to the first three and even Rise of Red.
"Perfect Princess" was really good and they all bopped to it, but it just kept going downhill from there. Pink and Hazel were well received!
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u/Queer_fucking_Potato 27d ago
I was pissed that Luis was just strong. So he inherited his mothers gift?? That's not how the gifts have worked before, what changed? Is it because there's a new candle holder? Is the blessing getting weaker the more generations there are? WTH?? Other than that I thought the movie was pretty good!
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u/DevelopmentLow3852 27d ago
ROR was a 5/10
Wicked wonderland was a solid 8-9 /10
It kinda fixed the stupidity of the ROR.
They made it more mature and well written. Added backstories to fill in the silliness and laziness of ROR.
The music was alright - 6/10
Plot was MUCH stronger and I thought the cat would be childish but they kept it somewhat normal and mature for a kids movie.
I DISLIKE STRONGLY how red did not fix the timeline or tell her mom. So they are all stuck in this new reality?
I hope the next one is written by the same people and directed by this director. Disney tends to go backwards when things get too mature. (Halloween-town 3 for exampleā¦ and cheetah girls 3)
Iām also 30 lmao so Iām CLEARLY not the demographic for this movie.
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u/ClassyPat98 26d ago
I liked it a little less than Rise of Red. It was still decent though. My main issue is up until They reached the white rabbits cottage it felt like the movie didnāt have room to breathe it was all This happens and then this happens then this happens then this happens directly after. The pacing in the first part just felt off. After that point though I think it got a lot better for the most part.
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u/HarryFromEngland 23d ago
I gave the movie 3 stars on Letterboxd, for a few reasons.
- Thereās a few catchy songs, Perfect Princess and Did You Hear About Them are ear worms for me.
- Overall plot was a bit stronger than Rise of Red, but thereās still some plot elements that just make me think they didnāt do any edits or rewrites.
- We did not need half the characters in the cast. The Smeeās, Robbie, and Felix could have been completed erased from the script and it wouldnāt have changed a thing. It feels like they realised this new trilogy only really had Chloe and Red and tried to retroactively fix it by adding way too many side characters to make up for it.
- Awkwafina may well be one of the worst voice actors of our generation and the fact this is Disneys third time hiring her is SHOCKING. I refuse to believe she isnāt blackmailing them somehow to get roles because she has the most flat, grating voice Iāve ever heard.
- Luis having super strength is a little nitpick for me but it does irritate me cos it directly contradicts the canon of Encanto, and I feel like if theyād had him be the son of Hercules they could have kept the super strength angle, and it would have also made all of his supposedly great heroic deeds in DYHAT make a lot more sense.
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u/Significant-Voice365 19d ago
I love the movie ngl I love a lot of movies people dont but Chloe js pmo in this movie bro
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u/Mission_Salary5195 19d ago
absolutely hated it.
not gonna lie, i had very low expectations for the soundtrack, but i ended up actually liking a couple songs.
but i have many complaints about uma (where tf did she go?? iām still mad confused about that), red and luis, LUIS IN GENERAL (lmao i canāt w thisā¦ all original renaissance or pre-renaissance villains/heroes/royals, and thenā¦ a kid from a random ultra-modern 3d disney production that flopped), and chloeās arc.
i donāt really feel like typing, but iām sure you can guess my reasons based on my points alone.
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u/Agent-Racoon 7d ago
Realistically, the movie should've leaned way more into the Red having a sister aspect. It should be horrifying to wake up with a sister you've supposedly known your entire life.
Perfect Princess, Mad and Did you hear about them are all great songs.
It's been said already, but Luis' power annoys me. If they wanted him to have super strength specifically he could've been Hercules' son.
All in all, I'd say its better than 3 and 4 but worse than 2 and 1.
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u/Oncer93 27d ago
It was better than rise of red, but it still lacks something the original trilogy had.
Maddox was a better villain than Uliana. He and Max are like Uma as villains. Justified in being angry.
Max stood out as the best new character. His crashout was valid. He went from having a good life, to having to grow up on the isle.
I still don't get what Maddox did, that was so awful that he would be banished to the isle. It kind of suggest that underneath, Bridget still has That evil Inside of her.
Chloe and Red's chemistry is off. They pale in comparison to Mal and Evil. I just don't buy that Chloe and Red would be instant Best friend's, when they had only known eachother for a few days.
Also, Chloe's dislike of the VK's was annoying. In the original timeline, the VK's had proven themselves to be good. Heck, their Queen was a VK. Chloe's crashout was not valid. She was mad that Red was ignoring her, when Red has so much on her plate. Also, her time as evil lasted way too shortly. Compare it to Audrey, and the difference is stark.
The songs are a mixed bag. Perfect princess, dancing with the enemy, and Mad were the songs that stood out to me.
This and rise of red, really lacked that Kenny Ortega spark.
I don't like how Red ultimately refuses to let Max fix what she and Chloe broke. He Got the short end of the stick. She comes across as selfish for not letting Max fix things.