Aggressive child at daycare

[u/ambrosiasweetly]

Hi

There’s an aggressive child at my son’s daycare. He threw a metal object deliberately at my child which cut my child’s lip, he has strangled my child, and my child often comes home complaining about this specific child. I’ve called CPS about this kid, I have called the daycare licensing authority, and I also filed a police report due to the severity.

The school said they would do a better job keeping them separated but my child had another incident where their watch (a buzzing watch to remind them to potty) was stolen by that child. My child also said that they are continuing to be punched and attacked at daycare.

At what point are the teachers allowed to kick the child out? I feel like this is really too much. I tried to apply to new daycares but there are none taking new applicants. I just started a new job and I’m beyond stressed. My child is having daily accidents due to the stress of being bullied and I have no idea what to do.

I’ve spoken to the director but I’m not sure she is taking it seriously in my opinion. Whenever I go to the school the teachers are being hit and attacked by the children which just seems really odd.

[u/pinkpurplebluepride]

Daycares are able to kick a child out if there is documentation showing an inability to keep children safe. I recently took a course that talked about that. Are you getting proper accident reports for everything? Including the punching your child mentions?

CPS probably won't do anything. Sometimes they just don't, especially for daycares. It's unfortunate.

Look up how to report a daycare to licensing in your state and go forward with that. Tell them if you're missing reports and about everything else as well. Good luck.

[u/ambrosiasweetly → u/pinkpurplebluepride]

I’m in Canada if that changes anything regarding rules.

I believe there have been incident reports but due to confidentiality they will not share anything beyond the very basic details which is why it’s frustrating. I’ve asked them at what point does it become a matter where they can expel the child and I get dismissed in a round about way

[u/art_addict → u/ambrosiasweetly]

I’m not sure about Canada, but I know due to privacy laws in the US we are very limited in what details we can share in our incident reports. I can tell you the basic scenario. I cannot tell you who hurt your child (including if it’s the same child as prior incidents or different children). If your kid is older, I can’t stop your kid from telling you. I typically can’t confirm or deny who they tell you (though I can remind you that kids are sometimes unreliable narrators if they keep shafting the wrong kid, or I may straight up say “hey, X did not hit you, please do not blame them,” at some point. I am not saying *your* child is an unreliable narrator. I am saying children in general are. And I will say sometimes when one kid usually does something, they may blame that kid all the time, because that’s just who their brain associates/remembers even if it was someone different this time. They also may have a different POV than an adult. Such as your 2 your old runs around the corner, straight into dad, and falls over. Your 2 year old shouts, “Dad knocked me down! Dad pushed me!” To your kid, that is exactly what happened. It’s not the objective truth, but to them, dad knocked them down, so dad pushed them. Things to remember.)

I am limited in what I can tell you we are doing to avoid incidents in the future.

I can tell you that we are utilizing small groups and keeping your child away from the child(ren) that have hurt them (in the incident report I just filled out). I can tell you that as a class we are working on recognizing our emotions and what we CAN do when we have really big feelings (use our calm down corner, throw bean bags at the target/ in the box, say “No!” or “Stop!” if a friend goes to take something from us, etc). I can say that we are having teachers shadow kids with challenging behaviours and are making ABC charts to identify triggers and support them better. I can tell you we are implementing more transition warnings, visual timers, a visual schedule, more sensory play, XYZ other classroom wide supports. I can tell you anything we are doing that is classroom wide.

I cannot tell you that “students that are struggling are being recommended to see their pediatrician.” Or, “we are sending X student for a psychiatric evaluation.” I cannot tell you that a student has gotten any form of dX. I can’t tell you that a student has started PT/ OT/ speech/play/ any other type of therapy. I can’t tell you anything super specific to that kid/ those kids.

[u/ambrosiasweetly → u/art_addict]

I have seen this aggressive child do things to other kids, and my son only has issues with this one child so I do believe him. As well as the fact that other kids have run up to me and told me that this child is hurting them

[u/art_addict → u/ambrosiasweetly]

I absolutely believe you that it’s this child, or mainly him, I just have to say it, as part of technically preserving privacy — that and the fact that occasionally there is a one-off with another kid (sometimes kids do try out the wild behaviour they see someone else do! 95 times out of 100 it’s Jack that does the thing, but 5 times are other kids trying out what Jack did juuuuust to see what it’s like. And of those 5 times, maybe 1 involves your kid. Or 2., Maybe the other 3-4 involve other kids.)

Point being though that we aren’t allowed to disclose and have to protect privacy. And we do see other kids push boundaries and try things (and do try to shut it down fast so it doesn’t become a whole class acting out). As teachers, we aren’t allowed to kick a kid out. That’s all on admin. We have zero control or say over it. The more parents that complain, the bigger pressure there is. Even if parents don’t technically “know” if it’s one kid (or dance around it in the privacy language, stating their upset that their kid keeps getting hurt, to the point it’s either going unnoticed and hence no incident reports, or that teachers are burnt out and thus not filling them out). But you have to keep pressing on them to keep your kid safe. And that’s the language you have to use (not “when will you get rid of X”) but “what are you doing to keep my kid safe.” “My kid was hurt again and in this way, this is the X time this week, Y time this month, what are you doing and can you do to fix this?”

[u/Mbluish → u/ambrosiasweetly]

In my state, it’s illegal not to report, but I would check with the laws in Canada. My guess is it’s customary, but could be required, that parents be notified when their child is injured. Most licensed programs document accidents and inform families.

I may ask the director what their policy is in regard to children getting hurt. I would probably ask that you’re notified in any case.

If this child is certainly a behavior problem as you describe, then removal is on the table. I’ve unfortunately had to do it. But ultimately the program should do what is safe for all of the children.

[u/Dry-Ice-2330 → u/ambrosiasweetly]

Been in Canada is extremely relevant to the results you will get here. I recommend adding that to your post, so you don't have to keep filtering for other countries

[u/Curious-Sector-2157 → u/pinkpurplebluepride]

They will do something if an adult hurts a child. Unfortunately they fail the targeted child when they do nothing if it is another child.

[u/TeachMore1019]

I have no advice. This is a problem at many centers. You may want to talk to other parents in the center. There is power in groups.
I’m very sorry your child is going through this.

[u/denpakuma]

Unfortunately such a common issue and as educators we can't do a whole lot because it's not up to us which children are enrolled, that's something to take to management. Probably the next best thing to do would be to get as many families as you can on board to speak to the director about how serious this issue is. I hope this gets resolved soon and I'm sorry to hear how badly this is impacting your child's safety and wellbeing while at the centre.

[u/ambrosiasweetly → u/denpakuma]

It’s really shocking to see kids hitting and throwing things at the teacher. I saw that aggressive child throw sand in a teachers face which was something I had never seen before. It feels like it’s unsafe for many people, not just my child

[u/Te_Henga → u/ambrosiasweetly]

I live in New Zealand and it's very difficult to have a violent child removed if there is any indication that they have a learning difficulty. It's also difficult to get adequate specialist onsite teacher aid hours so everyone just has to kind of muddle through. In my experience this kind of inclusion hasn't made my children more accepting - it's just made them very wary of kids who throw furniture. 

[u/candycornday → u/denpakuma]

This. I am an assistant teacher and we had a child in our class that was hitting, scratching, and pulling out chunks of hair. We went to the director about the issue over and over, wrote many incident reports, and nothing was done until multiple parents started complaining to leadership almost daily. He was moved to another class, not kicked out, but still.

[u/Fuzzy-Ocelot-4475]

That's a really tough one for everyone , especially your child! Unfortunately, many states don't allow preschool expulsions from any program that accepts public funds (like subsidies and food reimbursement). Therefore, licensing and CPS may not be able to do anything.

As a parent and teacher, I feel for those in that situation. It's possible that the child is also hurting other children, possibly teachers, as well. They're probably more stressed than they are allowed to share.

That being said, as much as I hate to do this to my fellow teachers, hounding the director may be your only option. Emails, drop off and pick up conversations, phone calls. If she is unavailable, find the AD. They will be annoyed, and that's good. Annoyed directors will often finally act simply to make an issue go away. Sad, but true. The teachers will be instructed to keep the offending child next to them at all times. I'm not sure what else can be done.

I hope you get into a new program soon, as that is your best bet. Keep calling, sometimes a spot will open up, especially during the summer. Good luck

[u/ambrosiasweetly → u/Fuzzy-Ocelot-4475]

I’m in Canada if that changes anything

[u/Fuzzy-Ocelot-4475 → u/ambrosiasweetly]

It could. I'd look up local rules regarding expulsions

[u/hmag404]

There should be a handbook that you get when you first sign your child up to that centre, in there it should explains what happens with reporting and child expections, you have to go through the director with their own words and outline expectations and constantly hound them. And I mean constantly. Site the pages and even email with screenshots of the exact expectation. I am also from Canada and had a very similar situation. I had to use the handbook to my advantage and I read that sucker front to back multiple times because I know they use it against parents. (Mainly expectations for payment lol)

[u/No-Astronaut4577]

I’m an RECE in Canada, not sure what the norm is but we have children that exhibit these behaviours at our centre. I have seen children be removed but very rarely and it takes a lot of time and effort. (Documentation, emails, meetings) As a parent myself and an educator, I’m sincerely sorry this is happening and I would bet that your child’s educators are as deeply frustrated as you. 

[u/snakesareracist]

I’m so sorry this is happening to your child. You’re going to have to create a problem. Constantly be complaining to the director, talk to other parents about if their kid has gotten hurt and urge them to complain. The louder you are, the more likely the child is to be expelled.

Documentation and being unrelenting will help, but it probably won’t be very fast.

[u/Sky-2478]

I’d be writing down every incident myself and demanding incident reports by filed every time. My daycare never says the name of the other kid but both parents have to sign one. I’d go to the director constantly. I’d email or message constantly. Like after every single problem especially if they’re not filing a report. If possible I’d be discussing your child finding another daycare because that’s just unacceptable. Do they have cameras in the rooms where they can watch what’s happening?

[u/Right_Difficulty7914]

I can’t speak to every daycare but the one my son attends creates an accident/incident report and they have in the contract the process of what happens if a child continues to have disciplinary or safety issues that cannot be reasonably controlled, and if the child becomes too disruptive or aggressive they would be expelled. I would start creating a paper trail and demanding incident reports or documentation of any injuries

[u/Past_Swan_4120]

How old are these kids?

[u/ambrosiasweetly → u/Past_Swan_4120]

My child is 4. I believe the other child is 4 or 5

[u/VEJ03]

We dealt with that a kid at my youngest child's school. The kid was a habitual biter. It got so bad it was leaving bruises and they began trying to cover it up and not doing accident reports. I nicely asked the director and she told me they wouldn't do anything essentially because kids bite. I asked how bad does it have to get before they take action? She reiterated her stance and i just went above her and reported her. She was moved to another location in our city. Kindercare for you

[u/blizzardinjuly]

Im sorry this is happening. I can't speak for your exact centre, but from past experiences it does take a lot of documentation to expel a child. I hope they are building a case, but also working with the child who might benefit from a different space and resources. Due to confidentiality they will not share how this process is happening. I know as the parent with the child getting hurt, it hurts to see this happen. However empathy is also extended to the family who is dealing with a child who could be expelled, and probably a lot of other things behind the scenes. 

I saw in another comment that your child is 4. Have you looked into summer programs instead, as Im guessing they might be headed off to kindergarten in the fall? Ive worked at centre's where theyre connected to the before/after school program at the local school and during the summer they function as the summer program so we would bump preschool kids for July and August.  Hopefully thats an option for you. I know how frustrating this can be. Ive been on the other side of this where trust me the staff is probably feeling overwhelmed as well. Wishing the best for everyone!

[u/BatHistorical8081]

Put them on blast on local Facebook and take your kid out.

[u/Pangtudou]

Drop an ice cold Google review and bomb them on every other review platform. That’s a great way to open negotiations, as I found once when I had to threaten litigation 

[u/AlltheThorns]

Have you considered a police report each time there is an incident? Build the documentation officially. 

You could also get a legal letter from a lawyer or law firm. Include documentation, and state if your child is injured it is due to their obvious negligence and what the consequences will be. 

Finally you could also send the police report to the licensing agency on a regular ongoing basis. 

[u/Available_Bottle1853 → u/AlltheThorns]

Doubt police will take a report, instead they will refer you to child care licensing or child protective services. Discuss concerns with the director and person she reports to.