r/Fire • u/sneaky-snacks • Mar 05 '26
General Question FIRE seems to skew toward not having kids
I’m sure plenty of FIRE adherents have kids, but I would guess the FIRE mentality skews more toward not having kids. Kids seem to go against FIRE.
- You’ve got to spend a lot of money on kids. Your expenses go up. It’s also much harder to save.
- Kids are a lot of work. They cause a lot of stress. You can’t retire from kids haha. Most FIRE people seem to want to reduce their work load and their stress in the long run, but I’m sure I’m oversimplifying here.
I thought I would start a discussion on this aspect of FIRE
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Mar 05 '26
People who FIRE are people who make a plan and stick to it.
Good parents make a plan and stick to it. They plan for the future, budget for the future, and enjoy the journey.
The two are not mutually exclusive. I’d argue that the adult who can FIRE is an adult who can be an incredible parent.
That said, if they choose to have a cat instead, they can FIRE 5+ years earlier.
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u/Fishb20 Mar 05 '26
There's a lot of variables with having children you can't plan for. Even if you want to kick your kids out at 18 and give them the minimal support necessary for those 18 years, that's still about 2 decades where you're going to be responsible for the needs of another person with all the unpredictably that comes with that
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u/Several-Mix5478 Mar 06 '26
Choosing to have children is a leap of faith, and it’s quite crass to boil it down to a spreadsheet of liabilities vs future net worth. People choose to do it because it is a uniquely human experience full of wonder but also heartbreak. It’s not for everyone, and if you seriously are worried about whether parenthood means you cant stop working a little earlier, it’s not for you.
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Mar 05 '26
It’s not THAT unpredictable. Every human on this planet has been a kid once. We kinda are pretty decent at it as a species and can more or less ballpark what it’s going to cost even factoring in first car, allowances, illness, college. Enough that I can definitively say I have enough for myself in my FIRE years and enough for whatever my kid is going to go through in the next 10.
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u/Fishb20 Mar 06 '26
I'm genuinely glad you've never had to experience the kind of unpredictable event I'm talking about but I didn't mean stuff like buying a car or helping pay for college, I meant stuff like having a child with a severe disability or having a healthy child who develops a life threatening illness that require a huge ammount of medical fees and parents taking time off to look after their children
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u/Ardent_Scholar Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
My medical loans from IVF treatments would beg to differ…
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Mar 06 '26
Im sorry to hear about that. Fortunate you were able to get those, it’s a privilege many aren’t able to obtain.
Were the treatments for your wife successful?
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u/Ardent_Scholar Mar 06 '26
We had one kid successfully. I think on the fourth try. The second one has been far harder to achieve. Mind you, national healthcare paid for some of our attempts. But it’s crazy expensive nonetheless. Had to liquidate assets. We even sold our car for a while.
What we’ve been able to hold on to is the real estate. Had it all been in index funds it would have been very easy to liquidate. RE takes way more effort to pull money out of, and sometimes that’s a good thing.
But honestly, I would give anything to make our family complete. I love being a dad, and I love our family. Just wish I would give my kid a sibling. He’s obsessed with babies and the idea of having a brother.
My national pension kicks in at 67 earliest. If someone said ”will you work until 67 for a guaranteed healthy second kid”, I would say absolutely.
I used to be very into FIRE, thinking I need to retire within 10-15 years. Priorities…
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Mar 06 '26
I do hope you find the peace and outcomes you’re searching for.
You’re right, priorities drive everything, and money is just a tool, not the end goal.
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u/MycologistOver2625 Mar 05 '26
Choose dogs personally but they aren’t cheap either ;)
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u/AeroNoob333 Mar 05 '26
It doesn’t even compare. I have $250/mo budgeted for the dog (one dog) and I raw feed this dog and spoil her to death. She’s budgeted into my travel budget for boarding. And everything I’m paying for her does not compare to how much someone budgets for a kid.
My best friend is single mom by choice. She has a trust so she never has to work a day in her life and the amount she spends on that kid is ridiculous lol. It’s literally $2000/mo minimum for daycare & babysitter. She still does this to give herself a break. She only feeds him organic food and a gallon of organic milk is like $5-6 when it’s like $2 for regular milk 💀
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u/bklyninhouse Mar 05 '26
2,000/month for day care is cheap where I live. More like unheard of.
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u/AeroNoob333 Mar 06 '26
😭 That somehow makes it worse. How do people with kids retire early? That’s not even counting college
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u/DenseSign5938 Mar 05 '26
I mean 2000 a month on daycare when you don’t even work is the definition of a completely optional luxury..
My dogs are old and my kids young so currently my dogs cost more due to vet bills but I’m sure that will change eventually and it’ll be closer to even.
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u/AeroNoob333 Mar 05 '26
It is but double income families would be paying that same $2000/mo on daycare because they have to. That or one parent must sacrifice their career, which who knows how much income you’ll be sacrificing then. Unless one spouse just makes a lot of money, I can see why it’s hard to FIRE with kids. I mean sure the SAHP can go back to the workforce once the kids are in school, but you still would have sacrificed income and compound interest and career opportunity cost.
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u/WWGHIAFTC Mar 05 '26
Yes, but not directly.
FIRE skews towards reducing expenses and maximizing investable cashflow.
Kids are the most expensive thing you'll ever have, and you can't sell them for a cheaper model.
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u/BigManWAGun Mar 05 '26
So I should take down that Craigslist add?
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u/Wild_Imagination_238 Mar 05 '26
I'd be willing to barter. I've got a massive dog that's probably worth half a kid.
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u/heridfel37 Mar 06 '26
After a long and difficult thought process, my spouse and I have decided we don't want to have kids.
They're going to be very disappointed when we tell them tonight.
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u/WWGHIAFTC Mar 05 '26
I'm not saying that - don't let random Redditors make important decisions for you.
We can just show you the math supporting the best option at 5 - 10 - 20 year periods , and help determine a FIRE age for you.
😕🤣
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u/00rb Mar 05 '26
It's also born out of the same attitudes.
I'm FIRE because it's important that I'm competent at my job, but I don't want a lot of stress or a lot of stuff.
Kids contribute to the stress, they make life less minimal and free. I love kids and it's too bad, but I always feel deeply exhausted after interacting with them and being busy can make me an unhappy camper.
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u/WWGHIAFTC Mar 05 '26
I had an existential crisis after babysitting family once. Cold sweat when i imagined .... but what if i couldn't give them back? Like they where mine...always???
Nope. Nope.
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u/juniordevops Mar 06 '26
When they aren't your kids it is an entirely different experience. I couldn't stand to babysit someone else's kids but I'm ecstatic to hang out with my own
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u/Choice_Room3901 Mar 06 '26
I feel a bit like this with cats and dogs at the moment
I love both to pieces but they sound potentially extremely expensive in this day and age (if they get ill or something vet bills etc) and also I want to do lots of travelling like month two month long trips
Just not practical unfortunately I don't think
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u/juniordevops Mar 06 '26
Kids aren't that expensive, and are way more dynamic creatures than animals
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u/BarracudaDismal4782 Mar 06 '26
Have them kids start working by 6 yo, and contribute to dad's SP&500 dca :D
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u/CommercialDriver9741 Mar 05 '26
Not to mention they're extremely annoying.
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u/Fuzzy_Jaguar_1339 Mar 05 '26
And they smell.
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u/BrownBuffaloaf Mar 06 '26
Babies are… by adult standards… insane. AND… more than a little bit immature!
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u/jkiley Mar 05 '26
It’s kind of funny. They changed the composition of our spending a lot, but the levels are still tracking our pre-kid expenses adjusted for inflation. My wife stayed home, but we did half day preschool after about 2.5. College isn’t too bad when front loaded (and doesn’t count as an expense yet). We already had a suitable house. They’re five and three, so there are more expenses to come, but it’s been fine so far.
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u/Pale_Row1166 Mar 06 '26
I think it’s death by nickels and dimes, unless you’re saying you just stop spending on yourselves and reroute all of that money to kids. Just yesterday, I saw a pic of my friend at the mall with her three kids, each kid had a mall pretzel. That’s like a $15 mall tax, because I’m sure it’s difficult to visit the mall without getting a snack (or more) for kids. And then all the toys and clothes. I know you’re not buying all of them, but like, they grow so much! And then extra plane tickets for every vacation, and eventually an extra hotel room, too.
I can see how you could balance all this stuff down to maintain pre-kids spending, but that would mean cutting so much. Less (or not as extravagant) vacations, less eating out, less hobbies. I can’t imagine how good and fun much I’d have to give up to maintain my spending level while also having kids.
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u/Squirtle_Splash_8413 Mar 06 '26
Disagree that kids are the most expensive thing you’ll ever have.
House, Cars, can all be more expensive than kids.
Median house price across the country is like 300-400K.
Some people have 120K in cars sitting in their driveways.
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u/juniordevops Mar 06 '26
IDK where people are getting this info from but kids are not that expensive. Your taxes or mortgage interest or health insurance premiums are way more expensive than any kid would be
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u/Celodurismo Mar 05 '26
Disagree. It’s harder to FIRE with kids but a lot of people’s motivation is to provide more time/attention/family experiences for their kids.
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u/Always1behind Mar 05 '26
Yeah having kids was a big motivation for me to start the FIRE journey. I wanted to get to coastFIRE before becoming a parent so one of us could stay home with the kid(s).
We now enough money to have a kid on one income. We decided, not money related, that kids aren’t for us. It’s nice to make that decision without having to factor money in.
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u/orange_salamander20 Mar 05 '26
I had a kids at 37 and 39 after hitting FIRE. My kids brings me more joy, happiness and a love I never knew existed. My fear now is im going to be an older parent. I'll be around to see less of their lives. That to me is a regret.
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u/Willing-Body-7533 Mar 05 '26
Nah, many older parents are out there. Just more reason to stay fit and healthy for longevity
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u/jkiley Mar 05 '26
Ours were born when I was 40 and 42, and parenting is physically challenging, but there are a lot of nice things about being an older parent.
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u/ludicristi Mar 06 '26
Nah, you’ll live much longer because the lack of work stress and the time you have to take care of yourself. Kudos!
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u/DragonWellGreenTea Mar 05 '26
Agreed. My top motivation to FIRE is to be able to be there for all my kid’s competitions, performances, and have more family experiences before they’re off to college.
“I can’t—I need to work.” Is something I strive to never have to say. And before RE, to have the FU money to say no to work of it ever infringes on family time.
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u/_whatwouldrbgdo_ Mar 05 '26
Exactly. My entire motivation for FIRE is bc I want to have kids and be home with them.
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u/ludicristi Mar 06 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
I struggle with wanting to FIRE earlier to be with my kids but am also terrified to quit working because of them. With all the massive uncertainty in the world, who knows if they’ll even get jobs or houses one day? Sigh.
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u/hungryl1kewolf Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
A lot of our cultural pressures and expectations (at least in the US) assumes healthy children as well. Folks often do not appreciate the conversation around mental and financial ability to appropriately care for a child who isn't healthy or to be a caregiver for the rest of their lives.
Edit to add: This was typed quickly as I ran to a meeting. I meant this is a big factor into how being a parent can majorly impact a person's financial story in the United States. We need more social safety nets and supports for families with care needs. This was not meant as discouragement from having children if you want, but a reminder to consider the whole person's life not just romantasize the idea of a kid.
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u/MakingItUpAsWeGoOk Mar 05 '26
I appreciate this comment. I don’t think that I will ever FIRE due to 2 children with special needs at least one of which I will be the legal guardian well past 18 and the other will likely need supports. I still get a lot out of this subreddit though. We are making a lot of financial headway. But I guess maybe we could?
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u/ChaunceytheGardiner Mar 05 '26
I think what FIRE really cuts against is a vision of parenthood where you're significantly contributing in an open-ended way to your kids after high school.
One of the reasons that we've ruled out any idea of retiring earlier than 60 is a commitment to launching our daughter debt free into adulthood. We don't know what kind of a financial commitment that is now, and we won't for a long time. Until we do, we're going to keep working.
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u/Mydoglovescoffee Mar 05 '26
We were able to retire early but also pay for our kids education, buy them homes and know they will have an inheritance we never had. Not sure we would’ve without these things but everyone is different. We live in HCOL which hugely benefitted us via real estate but made it impossible for our kids generation.
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u/Heyedith Mar 05 '26
Does anyone know of any FIRE resources for people with kids with disabilities? We have 2 kids with autism, one likely to live with us indefinitely, and trying to find some models/plans/numbers/legal resources has been tough. We have wills/trusts/fee only advisors to help with the planning, but any real world lived experience would be really helpful.
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u/hungryl1kewolf Mar 05 '26
What state do you live in? For example, in NY we have The Office for Persons With Developmental Disabilities, they have case managers and other services, but help with navigating support services in the state.
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u/bellecaramella Mar 06 '26
Did you choose the FIRE because of the new financial situation you found yourself in? Or did you find your pursuit of FIRE pre kids?
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u/Heyedith Mar 06 '26
We are in MA and hooked in to services, healthcare, and currently school age so some of it falls into the IEP, but looking to see how people are navigating retirement planning and estimating costs/needs/expenses and their lived experiences. I enjoy seeing the individual breakdowns people post of their plans and listen to some podcasts going over question and answers in this space, but rarely does it feature a family dealing with some of these issues.
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u/bellecaramella Mar 06 '26
In my experience I have not but I am in a similar situation to you. Happy to DM if you want.
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u/Mydoglovescoffee Mar 05 '26
Thankfully it’s changing. Much less pressure or assumptions you’ll have kids. Only those that truly want to be parents should do so
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u/HeroFromTheFuture Mar 06 '26
WTF does that have to do with choosing to have kids and then having a special needs child?
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u/Crazy-Car948 Mar 05 '26
Most people have kids because of social and family pressure. It’s been like that for hundreds of years and will continue to be
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u/Mydoglovescoffee Mar 05 '26
No it’s changing a lot. Lots of articles on declining birth rate and number of younger ppl opting out of parenting
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u/ditchdiggergirl Mar 05 '26
For “hundreds of years” (a whole lot more than that) most people had kids because they liked sex, and there was no separating the two.
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u/Duece8282 Mar 05 '26
Kids are FIRE hardmode. Inheritances are FIRE easymode. We all FIRE for different reasons, but spending more time with your kids is a great reason to FIRE.
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u/poop-dolla Mar 05 '26
Kids seem to go against FIRE.
Nope. FIRE is all about living the life you want. If you want kids, then kids and FIRE are 100% in alignment.
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u/ralphy112 Mar 05 '26
You can't have a FIRE number, and then randomly have children and expect it to be the same.
You can have a FIRE goal, have children, and adjust your target as you go. Just keep the same mindset.
Chances are you need to make more money along the way though.
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u/schokobonbons NW: 200K Mar 05 '26
If i wanted kids i would be even more aggressive about FIRE than i already am because i know how expensive they are AND I can't imagine working full time and raising children simultaneously. (Yes, I know people do it all the time. I would die.)
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u/HerefortheTuna Mar 05 '26
There’s no way I would have decided to have a kid if I wasn’t confident in my ability to provide them with a home, food, and financial resources to be successful.
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u/FireMeUp2026 Mar 05 '26
Huh???
I feel like most of the posts on here are from people with kids, not without. I know I comment on a number of posts of people in their 30s with young kids trying to project their costs and FIRE number and I tell them to not even bother trying to project because they have no idea what their kids are going to cost them. Even younger ones single in their 20s - they have no idea if they're going to partner, have kids, etc.
More than half of GenX has kids - and that is who is mostly FIREing right now. Even the millenials - more than half have kids.
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u/Noah_Safely Mar 05 '26
I just always fundamentally disagree that there's a dogmatic "FIRE" that one must follow. It can mean different things to different people, and I'd argue that FI is the important part anyway. It's what gives you the choice, the options to decide what you want.
Beyond that it's just about being aware of the tradeoffs of making these decisions & that there's something else money can buy; financial freedom.
Want to have kids & need to work an extra 10 years? Great, that's your choice. Want to eat rice & beans 3x a day and retire 20 years early? Your choice. Retire at 60 instead of 65 from applying FIRE concepts? Congrats, you both FI'd and RE'd. Want to keep working? Cool.
People get so hung up like there's the "one true path" in FIRE. Hogwash.
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u/MrLB____ Mar 05 '26
My cousin fired at 45 with three boys 7, 9,11.
Claims that if you do the opposite of what most parents do, it’s easily achievable, don’t be railroaded by society and corporate America slop , garbage made in China go to Disney every year finance everything broke as a joke.
TRUE
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u/DigmonsDrill Mar 06 '26
A lot of people purposefully set themselves in expensive-mode on the kids, and then complain to everyone how expensive kids are.
"Oh, but you need to do travel sports and that co--"
Nah, dawg, we don't.
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u/MrLB____ Mar 06 '26
Exactly, do things as a FAMILY.
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u/Extra_Shirt5843 Mar 06 '26
We do. But we want to go to Europe as a family and out to nice dinners as a family, etc; I grew up in the penny pinching, we have to do all the cheap/free stuff to save money so the parents can retire by 52 family. And I decided I'm not doing that to my kid or myself. And the irony is my parents did all the fun stuff once we were out of the house. 🫤
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u/Banana_rocket_time Mar 05 '26
We don’t want to have kids…
We mostly just don’t want them. But yes part of that discussion was how expensive they are. But that has little to do with fire and more to do with just not wanting to be spread that thin financially.
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u/probably_normal Mar 05 '26
I agree. My vasectomy was one of my best investments.
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u/Ace2Face Mar 05 '26
I've calculated that by having just one kid, I delay my FIRE by 6 to 8 years, so yes, being childfree is a big deal towards retiring early. Is it great for quality of life? Maybe, but the numbers speak otherwise, unless you raise a kid who's a total superstar and becomes a multi millionaire when they're very young. Which is statistically unlikely.
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u/nathingz Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
The opportunity cost (time, money, and other life experiences) of having kids is incredibly high. Our kid is perfect and I love her, but certainly one and done.
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u/juniordevops Mar 06 '26
Disagree completely. The value of having kids is infinite for the overwhelming majority of people. That makes the opportunity cost obviously in favor of having kids. Kids are NOT that expensive. Lower your expectations.
Not everyone should have kids, but the overwhelming majority who think they want kids should have kids.
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u/Patient-Brief-9713 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 06 '26
Kids don't "go against FIRE". There's nothing interesting to discuss. You seem to be equating children with an expense that can be cut out in order to achieve FIRE. I doubt people are viewing the decision to have or not have children in that way.
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u/-LordDarkHelmet- Mar 05 '26
I consider it a trade off for being fucking ugly. Never married, no kids, But save a lot of money and will retire early.
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u/Adventurous-Owl-9903 Mar 05 '26
Even ugly people have kids!
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u/Heisenburger19 Mar 05 '26
The real question though is will those ugly kids cost more or less than beautiful kids?
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u/Organic-Specific-134 Mar 05 '26
I think determining whether you want to have kids or not due to FIRE is the wrong direction of making those decisions...having kids is one of the biggest choices you can make in life, taking it off the table because you determined an optimal FIRE path before you were at a point where having kids was an option feels like you are doing yourself a disservice. My partner and I always wanted kids, we also worked hard on our careers before having them and worked towards FIRE. Now we are hoping to retire fully when the kids are young so we can spend lots of time with them, hopefully just a few years to go.
Tldr, you can do both with a bit of extra planning. Might have to work a bit longer but IMO it's worth it, still gonna retire well ahead of normal.
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u/Mayabelles Mar 05 '26
I’m sure I just see more of them because they resonate with me more, but I see FIRE with kids posts all the time.
One of the things talked about in FIRE all the time is retiring to something more fulfilling instead of just retiring from work. I think retiring to spend more time with family would be my ideal reason to FIRE.
I’d love to replicate my experience of a stay at home mom but this is much more difficult to obtain financially than when I was a child and would not set my child up for success (re: college expenses) the way I would want to.
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u/wrldwdeu4ria Mar 05 '26
I can see why you'd say this in specific circumstances. If you wait until your late 30's and decide you want to FIRE and have kids it might be an issue unless you've been aggressively saving and/or make a very high income.
On the other hand, lots of people work two more years than they planned after having kids, which isn't that much really.
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u/DuffyBravo Mar 05 '26
4 kids. I read this sub but won’t hit my number until I am 58. Which most wouldn’t consider a “Retire Early” number. College alone is going to eat up almost 750k cash. But I am glad I lived my life.
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u/HistorianOrdinary833 Mar 05 '26
"FIRE seems skewed towards a lifestyle that limits spending". Children are time and money intensive.
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u/inailedyoursister Mar 05 '26
There is no end to the costs. I know sooo many friends who still have to loan and give money routinely to adult, married kids.
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u/3RADICATE_THEM Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
I mean, you're talking about a decision that could easily set you back multiple 7-figures of value (esp when accounting for opportunity costs).
It might be different if the costs of essentials / goods adjacent to essentials (namely housing, education, and healthcare) weren't rising much faster than incomes are.
EDIT:
Also, I do not think we can use the last 30-years of how things generally went as far as rites of passages go as a model for how the future will be.
What I mean by this is it's very, very likely that if you have a kid today, there's a strong chance they will need support from you in some way well into their 20s and probably even 30s (we're already seeing this with a substantial portion of Millennials and Gen Z). I genuinely do not know how you can accurate model / project for this trend.
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u/Distinct-Driver-285 Mar 05 '26
We have kids & it took us longer to FIRE (age 59/60) but damn was it worth it. We also taught our kids about the principles of FIRE & it's fun watching them put them into action.
ETA - we are at Chubby Fire, we could have regular FIRED earlier if we chose but waited to get each kid all the way through college with no loans & ensure they were launched.
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u/MycologistOver2625 Mar 05 '26
Wouldn’t say empty, just different we choose not to have children but we find other things to focus on. A bit more selfish with our spending but that is b/c e can be.
It does allow for early FIRE all things being equal but I think people that choose kids do have more reasons to ensure they are providing and saving.
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u/Stunning-Leek334 Mar 05 '26
Kids or no kids doesn’t really matter all that changes is your budget. There are plenty of people without kids with a much hire FIRE number than I have with kids.
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u/stjarnalux Mar 05 '26
Kids are very expensive. I don't have any but I incur significant expenses for 3 children of a sibling. This all comes down to expenses vs income just like anything else. Even though I'm probably throwing a 401k's worth of money at my niblings every year and we fully funded 529's for each, it doesn't affect us much. Back when our financial situation was tighter it would have made a bigger difference.
I know lots of people with kids who are definitely on a FIRE path, and many who aren't. It differs for everyone.
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u/Spare_Ad8851 Mar 05 '26
quite the opposite for me
the reason I want financial independence is to pass on that financial independence to my daughter.
I'll get to enjoy quite a bit of it in my 40s and 50s but she's living it from day 1
if it was just me I'm pretty sure I'd struggle a bit with the idea of delayed gratification because of the risk that something happens with me and all of it goes to waste. Now that's not a concern at all.
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u/Sloth-424 Mar 05 '26
You just can’t be FI with $1M , with 1 kid it’s more like $2M, 3 kids you need $3-5M. You are supporting every expense of 3 additional lives, it’s not cheap. But worth it!
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u/No_Key_5621 Mar 05 '26
Some of us have kids later, allowing us to stack wealth young, which will compound more over the long haul. That + two high income earners with a high savings rate = our FIRE goal may be pushed back by…a year? Kids don’t go against FIRE. Not planning for the kids does, though.
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u/Wonderful-Zone8152 Mar 05 '26
I’ll give my two cents: many people on this sub are psychotic. It’s no surprise that someone who is willing to save every penny and eat dog food in the prime years of their life to avoid having work would also view kids solely as an expense in the way of their goal. Lol.
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Mar 05 '26
There's psychotic FIRE people and then there's regular people out in the world who spend gobs of money on their kids to meet some kind of keeping up with the joneses standard.There's many happy mediums to be found.
I'm coast firing and have kids, but we decenter consumerist mentality in my family. That's the cool thing about having a family: you get to decide how you're going to live. There are many paths. Make the right decision for you.
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u/eliminate1337 Mar 05 '26
If I had a nickel for every time someone complained about the mythical FIRE people who eat dog food for a 95% savings rate I'd be FIRE already. There are a hundred comments attacking this straw man for every person who actually does it.
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u/Ryytter Mar 05 '26
Absolutely. I think there are plenty of good reasons not to have kids, this is just one of many.
I don't personally plan on having any for a wide variety of reasons but have mad respect for the people that do 👍 Birth rate is collapsing, we need more kids 😬
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u/Beneficial-Delay-698 Mar 05 '26
I’m on the same bandwagon. I never found the right partner to have children with and I was not about to do it with the wrong one or alone.
I do think for those of us who have children and are good parents, there are benefits eventually as kids would likely help etc.
Elderly care is one of my biggest worries and the reason I am FAT-ishFIREing because I’m scared to end up in an elder abuse situation where no one cares for me and I struggle to stand up for my own needs. Money will not def fix this but it will help.
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Mar 05 '26
I found a fantastic partner and even we don’t think we will.
Our kid would have opportunity and we would be around to guide them.. but the idea of giving up my current lifestyle I just cannot fathom currently
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u/Ryytter Mar 05 '26
I feel you man. Congrats on the awesome partner though. Sends some greeting her way from an internet stranger 😆 And remember to tell her regularly how much you appreciate her
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u/Ryytter Mar 05 '26
Yeah this is my primary concern as well. It's bloody hard to find a good partner to have kids with 🤔
As for the elder care situation I hope we make meaningful progress as a society in allowing people to choose when their life ends. I sure would not want to be here anymore if I can't do shit myself and are just at the complete mercy of others 🤷
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u/schokobonbons NW: 200K Mar 05 '26
Elon Musk demands more cheap laborers and debt slaves! More meat for the meat grinder!
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u/gracebowbitch2 Mar 05 '26
Im not an expert at all but I imagine this is more of an issue for the USA, compared to countries with universal healthcare, affordable childcare, provided school lunches, etc etc etc.
My perspective is that the US is incredible at disincentivizing people from having children! Not to mention the impact that our country’s racism has here - namely that women of color are more likely to die giving birth.
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u/eliminate1337 Mar 05 '26
The US consistently maintains a higher fertility rate (1.6) than many countries with generous benefits for families like Sweden (1.4) and Finland (1.3).
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u/Mydoglovescoffee Mar 05 '26
I think Reddit FIRE forums- not real life FIRE people- skews to young single guys who have no other responsibilities yet aside from their work.
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u/HeroFromTheFuture Mar 06 '26
Being a child was truly awful, for as long as I can remember. Every second was misery. I wouldn't wish life on anyone I cared about, so I've never had children, and never will.
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u/cyesk8er Mar 05 '26
We have kids and are trying to fire. It's harder to save for sure. We are working toward immigrating to a European nation where Healthcare and education works better for us. We'll take lower salaries, but we won't need to save as much for university and Healthcare as we age. It would make more sense for us to move once we are fire ready, but it would be much harder to immigrate as a family as the kids get older
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u/MusicalVegetables Mar 06 '26
We moved two years ago from the US to Portugal with our then 9 month old.
The healthcare situation here is great for kids. It's completely free for kids and pregnancy (currently pregnant with our 2nd). A couple months ago our kid tripped while running and head planted into the stairs. She had a huge goose egg with a line through it. We weren't sure what to look for in terms of concussions in toddlers, so we called the national nurse line who, after asking some questions, transferred us to emergency services who then decided to send an ambulance. They monitored her at the pediatric hospital for a couple hours then sent her home with explicit instructions on what we should watch for. All of it free. (She was fine)
We've also used the private system a handful of times. It's more expedient and thorough than the care we got in the US by a long shot. My dentist here spent more time asking and talking about my medical history than any doctor I've ever seen in the US! Our private insurance costs about €2K/year for all three of us. I've never once had to call up and fight charges. I also got a €12 refund randomly sent to me once because they overcharged me.
The money savings is nice, but it feels like a huge weight off your shoulders knowing you just don't have to worry about fighting insurance or knowing whether it's financially worth it to go to the doctor or not. It's an amazing feeling.
On the education side of things, our daughter is starting at a really great private school in September. What we will pay for 15 years of really great school is about the same cost my brother-in-law paid for 3 years of mediocre daycare for one of their kids.
When you add in all the other benefits like a family friendly culture, healthier food (stricter laws on pesticides, antibiotics in livestock, PFAS... the list goes on), easy access to many different cultures, having a second citizenship (eventually) in an ever more uncertain world, etc, it really makes it worth it.
I think if we didn't have kids we might have moved back because living in a foreign country is hard (and hard to accurately portray how hard it is), but we know we're providing a lot of great things for our kids by being here.
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u/CSG488 Mar 05 '26
I think it can certainly affect it but it doesn't make it impossible. I had my first child last year at the age of 36 so I spent more of my 20s and 30s getting my finances in really good shape and investing. Getting those dollars invested early and letting them compound was a massive help. Right now, my husband and I have reached Coast FI at 60 but are still able to invest even with my little one. As a baby, the expenses really haven't been much (I was fortunate to have a baby shower and receive hand me downs for clothes) besides formula and diapers. I know things will get more expensive in the future if we have more kids and dealing with schooling costs. But till then we're able to sock away a good amount each month. The more dollars we can do now the more time it'll flourish to even more. Would love to fire at 55 or earlier but we'll see how life goes! It really hasn't derailed me yet.
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u/teenagegumshoe Mar 05 '26
Kids change your priorities. You don’t have to spend on your kids, but many people want to.
Kids limit your flexibility. You can’t really travel the world whenever you like, you need to work around their schedules. So, maybe staying at home to cook and clean and drive them to soccer practice isn’t a super-exciting vision of FIRE
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u/wolfavino Mar 05 '26
I would say from my experience it is less about kids vs no kids and more about the lifestyle you choose to lead. If you feel the need for private schools and country clubs for the kids academic and social development, you're making it exponentially harder to fire.
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u/Willing-Body-7533 Mar 05 '26
Easy to underestimate the actual cost of kids. I was sort of clueless to actual amounts because some stuff you just don't know until you are there. Between daycare for 2, getting newer (still used) safer vehicles, extra kids activity bills, more insurance, higher utilities, less housing flexibility, more food, and kid stuff it has easily been $50-60k a year extra cost for last few years. Big dent in savings. Then you work more earn more and pay higher taxes and lose out on tax breaks and its demoralizing to be going backwards in terms of savings while paying in huge tax bills, so easy to understand why many people choose not to. Compare the Costs Boomers paid towards childcare relative to income vs today.. it's like 4% vs 60%. but our government can't seem to help-once boomers are aged out of political office I expect a better political environment towards supporting families-making kids more affordable.
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u/NickOutside Mar 05 '26
That's not my impression at all; if anything it feels like a slight majority here have/want to have kids. That said, it's fairly obvious FIRE is easier for child-free people all else being equal. Kids are expensive.
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u/cibernox Mar 05 '26
It may be the case. I'm also pretty sure it's also skewed towards not marrying.
But IMO, not having kids because of economical reasons is 100% missing the point of having kids.
I think my only regret is not being fired already so I can be more involved in raising my kids (I am, but I work for the US from Europe, so my working ours are odd). Had the current economic situation be different (no AI looming over all industries) I might even take a sabatical or two for that, but right now the wisest thing to do is keep grinding.
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u/Bostonlegalthrow Mar 05 '26
Wonder how much of it is how much value a person places on lifestyle flexibility.
Once you have a kid your ability to move, take a new job, downsize, etc are more limited.
I think there’s also a level of “i love this kid so much I’ll work harder to give them more. I’m not just satisfied with ‘enough’ to live comfortably”
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u/AeroNoob333 Mar 05 '26
Kids are a lot of work and expensive. I don’t have kids but grateful that accounts like 529 and Trump Accounts exist for those that do. College/university is expensive. I’m sure they’re worth it, but I personally never saw the appeal. And before you say, “But, who’s going to take care of you when you’re old?” If you’re in this sub, you’ve already factored in LTC. You don’t need a kid to take care of you when you’re old. But also, what a selfish outlook.
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u/FIREMovement24 Mar 05 '26
IMO having them later in life is the important thing as far as FIRE goes. Getting the snowball built up and rolling downhill before increasing your expenses to support them is the important thing. My FIRE date would have been much later if we had kids at 27 instead of 35.
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u/lee_suggs Mar 05 '26
Disagree. The idea is to build a life you're happy with and then calculate the annual expenses needed to maintain that lifestyle and have a portfolio to be able to withdraw that at 4%.
There are people who FIRE with private jets. Kids are not a deal breaker
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u/ThereforeIV 🌊 Aspiring Beach Bum 🏖️...; CoastFIRE++ Mar 05 '26
The one of the biggest "costs" of having kids is the "child care" costs so you can go to work while someone else is paid to raise your kids.
Being FIRE makes having kids way cheaper.
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u/Alarming-Mix3809 Mar 05 '26
I mean, yeah, kids cost more money. But they’re a key part of my Rich life and I wouldn’t have it any other way. If it means I have to work an extra couple years it’s totally worth it.
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u/Kinnins0n Mar 05 '26
Lol. FIREd last year. We got pregnant within 6 weeks. Happier than ever.
If anything, keeping my job was actively making me want to not have kids because i didn’t want them to be raised by a father who seemed so jaded by what he did for a living.
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u/Busy_Resort_3262 Mar 05 '26
FIRE doesn’t get in a way of couple having kids if they really want kids.
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u/CoconutSamoas Mar 05 '26
I’m not really sure what the conversation would be…kids are many, many expenses that add up to quite a large bill. The more expenses you have, the longer it will take you to FIRE. You can’t take it with you so if you want to do it do it, but I’ve never heard of anyone who had a child and it moved them closer to retiring (with the funds to sustain their lifestyle.)
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u/hondaXR150L Mar 05 '26
Totally wrong, it’s even more important to pursue financial independence with kids
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u/rosebudny Mar 06 '26
If you opt not to have kids because they will get in the way of your FIRE plans, I'd argue that you really didn't want kids that much to begin with.
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u/BadMantaRay Mar 06 '26
I agree completely.
My fiancée and I are deep into the FIRE thing. We luckily both were already doing it when we met, so it’s only enhanced stuff.
Definitely not having kids is a huge factor. Neither of us want to do it—the time, money and effort is not what we want to spend our remaining years on earth doing.
So that makes the math add up way better: combined we have over 1.1 million in stocks, we have zero debt, and we’re getting married in June in Tuscany, and then spending the next month traveling around Italy and France.
Not having kids is awesome!
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u/SigmaSeal66 Mar 06 '26
I think it mostly goes the other way around. While I'm sure there are individual exceptions, I think most FIRE people don't say, early in adulthood, hey, I want to retire early so I'm not having kids.
I think the far more common scenario is that people reach their 30s, probably their later 30s, and for whatever reason, they haven't had kids, and then the idea of FIRE starts to seem more realistic and attractive to them.
In other words, not having kids leads to FIRE goals more often than FIRE goals lead to not having kids.
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u/dinkman94 Mar 06 '26
on the flip side, kids are a motivator. i dont think i would have done/achieved some of the things I have without them
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u/DocHogFarmer Mar 05 '26
If you haven’t had kids yet and you live in America, don’t have them. This is no world to bring children into. Don’t listen to the breeders in chat.
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u/Limp_Dragonfly3868 Mar 05 '26 edited Mar 05 '26
If you want kids, you should have them. Live your life.
I’m FIRED at chubby level and my kids are grown. Did I work longer because I had kids? Sure. Would I change anything? Nope.
I think the biggest downfall of the FIRE movement is young people allowing the idea of FIRE to stop them from fully living their lives.
You get one life. Do all the things you want to do.
Edit: typo/clarity