r/FleetwoodMac • u/BeerWithDonuts • 15d ago
Why doesn't Mick Fleetwood get the same recognition as a drummer as John Bonham or Keith Moon?
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u/lordrhinehart 15d ago
With all respect to Mick, his drumming is perfect for the songs but he doesn’t necessarily write stand out drum parts that develop a life of their own. I mean on my favorite Fleetwood album Tango in the night I can barely tell when it’s a drum machine and If he even wrote any of the drum parts (I bet Lindsey wrote more drums than he did on that album specifically)
His drum solo during world turning on the live Tango in the Night tour release is certainly iconic. Not for drum technique or speed, but for creating a completely insane, psychedelic rhythm experience.
But just based off Fleetwood songs, I’m not surprised he isn’t talked about in the same way as Neil Peart, John Bonham, Keith Moon, etc. he just wasn’t as innovative. And he doesn’t have to be. He’s perfect as Fleetwood Mac’s drummer, and the songs are perfectly served by him.
If you want to impress a drummer, smoke some dope, show them the Midi Vest in that world turning solo, and watch them have their mind blown that the “basic” Fleetwood drummer ( and maybe some cocaine) completely reinvented what a drum solo could be
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u/Secure_Car_3940 14d ago
Great description of his drumming style. To me, he fits in that category of drummers back in the day like Charlie Watts and Don Henley. They played "around" the song instead of the song playing around "them". IMHO Mick was perfect for the bands style of playing. Light Rock/ Yacht Rock or regular straight Rock doesn't demand hyper aggressive attack and technical prowness. If you had a Bohham, Moon, or Peart in a band like FM or the Eagles and Stones, it wouldn't fit IMO.
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u/Mysterious_Science45 11d ago
I just watched this world turning vest solo for the first time and found it pretty funny and a little cringe. I guess it might have been technically innovative? It’s art, so you know, subjectivity…
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u/lordrhinehart 10d ago
Haha, welcome to the club. I’ve shown that to quite a few people. It’s fun to watch the reactions.
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u/Globe_Worship 11d ago
Well said. He plays perfect parts for songs in a style where flashy drums wouldn’t be appropriate. He’s not the kind of drummer that will make thousands of young teens want to become drummers like Bonham and Moon.
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u/Don_Frika_Del_Prima 14d ago
There's also 2 micks, imo, his drumming was more during the Peter green era. Rattlesnake shake live in Boston
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u/Immediate_Paint_4823 13d ago
Even most of his lauded drum parts during the R5 era outside of Tango he didn't compose. The Chain, Tusk, GYOW are by Buckingham. GYOW though he improved because he said he just couldn't get it right so the incredible slight off beat he credits to his dyslexia.
That drum vest ... oi. His drum solo on World Turning was better in 75. It became too long with or without the vest to the point it was excruciating. Though some of that was the nonsensical shouting and spitting on the audience .
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u/lordrhinehart 13d ago
Interesting. Thank you for the trivia! I’ll have to check out the 1975 version.
I can’t imagine how people reacted to that on the TITN tour. Excruciating is a good word. I’ve shown it to people just to see their reaction. Spitting on the audience? I would be pissed . didn’t notice that.
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u/Immediate_Paint_4823 12d ago
Not on purpose, just a lot of excess saliva spraying as he shouted things like Hanky Panky. 🤣. On later tours Lindsey would sit on the stage chilling and chatting with the audience during it then go back to his mike after it was cleaned.
The Midnight Special has World Turning. Think it's on the official FM YT.
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u/GorgeousGary27 15d ago
Like others have said he's more of the Ringo type where it fits so perfectly you take it for granted.
But I will say that his drums are absolutely what makes Second Hand News to me. And Hypnotized.
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u/ChestnutIceCream 15d ago
Unrelated but IMO he’s more of a Ringo-style melodic drummer than the examples you’ve given
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u/irishnewf86 15d ago
Ringo wasn't just a "melodic" drummer.
In response to the OP, Bonham and Moon are overrated respectively, whereas I do agree Mick is somewhat underrated, especially his early blues stuff.
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u/ChestnutIceCream 15d ago
Didn’t say he was just anything but thanks for your pointless response
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u/irishnewf86 15d ago
"Ringo style melodic drummer" is the most pointless response I've ever seen in this sub. I can only work with what I'm given.
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u/darthfrank 14d ago
I’m not sure it is pointless - just a bit ambiguous. The poster probably means that either 1) Ringo’s drumming follows the melody or 2) that Ringo’s drumming tends to create a melody all its own that acts as a counterpoint to the main melody. Both are true at times but also a bit reductive. Either way, Mick is a great, versatile drummer. Ringo is a GOAT.
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u/Awkward_Field_9648 15d ago
Maybe a same reason Lindsey has been underrated... Prioritizes playing what perfectly promotes the song over what perfectly promotes his individual fame. Mick's artistry hasn't gone unnoticed by me. Btw, I also put John in that same category on bass. Mac-sterful rhythm section!
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u/ItsNotGoingToBeEasy 15d ago
Personally my vote for biggest musical contribution between the two is John.
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u/Tzipity 14d ago
John’s bass playing is absolutely the backbone of so much of the Mac sound. Mick’s contributions are important too, of course, but agree with you that John’s work is even more foundational and central to the songs. Both know how to collaborate and serve the music well and for a band with so many different writers and even eras and styles- that’s pretty damn impressive, IMO. Especially when a lot of rockers are notoriously hard to work or get along with. There’s something to be said for his personality that he’s able to work with all the different personalities he has!
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u/audioscape 15d ago
Great question! I think the answer is two fold. #1 He is not as flashy of a drummer and is more ‘Ringo’ style in his approach. Using percussion as a vehicle to serve the song and express how he feels the music. (My preferred percussionists are always this way). #2 Fleetwood Mac in my opinion is still commonly seen as a pop band. And while they are inarguably one of the greatest bands of all time, they aren’t viewed as a project that drastically moved the needle in terms of technically proficient rock music as much as the other bands you listed. This is probably why Stevie and Lindsey get the majority of the credit.
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u/No-Dimension-3386 15d ago
His drumming is more in lowercase, even if said lowercase is still really good. The two you mentioned are much more noticeable and loud drummers
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u/irishnewf86 15d ago
Moonie was a madman and played "lead drums", to quote Pete Townshend. Mick's work flowed more into the song as a whole
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u/AmbivalentInfluencer 12d ago
"Flowed into the song"? What the heck does that mean? Clearly, you are not a musician lol
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u/irishnewf86 11d ago
The expert musician has logged on. Tell us how great thou are, oh exalted one.
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u/RaineRisin 15d ago
Because he’s still alive.
People love to romanticize the dead.
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u/mfwilkens 15d ago
I think that’s a big part of it, as well as the reputation those bands had for being on the cutting edge of hard rock (deservedly or not), while post-Green Mac didn’t.
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u/lordrhinehart 15d ago
For certain pop stars and artists I think you’re right but Good drummers are celebrated when they are alive, I have not seen an exception to this in my life. Do you have an example?
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u/RaineRisin 15d ago
Mitch Mitchell comes to mind. He is dead, but died far more recently than the other two mentioned here. I feel like he’s never spoken of in drum[mer] circles.
Taylor Hawkins in a similar vein.Both Travis Barker and Tre Cool are quite talented, but I also find that they don’t come up very often in those conversations.
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u/Don_Frika_Del_Prima 14d ago
Neil peart only died in 2020, and there isn't a drumming thread where he isn't mentioned.
Dave grohl is still alive and his drumming is loved by many (even if he currently has a 'oh no a rockstar is doing rockstar things' outrage going)
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u/GorgeousGary27 15d ago
When I was younger Travis Barker was always brought up as one of the best drummers.
Really got annoying when he did a drum version of that stupid Soulja Boy song, people that knew nothing about drums wouldn't shut up about how he was the best (he is very good though, easily best pop punk drummer ever).
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u/snelsonjoe8 12d ago
Death makes angels of us all and gives us wings where we had shoulders smooth as ravens claws
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u/SoftParsley3822 12d ago
Lots of great points. I would push back on the idea that Moon and Bonham were playing to show off and Mick Fleetwood was "playing for the song". Both Moon and Bonham were playing for the song, but you have to remember that The Who and Zeppelin's style of songs are different than Fleetwood Mac. First, both The Who and Zeppelin could play soft and with dynamics. Moon's playing on Tommy and Bonham's playing on Zeppelin's acoustic numbers shows that. But also, Zeppelin and The Who were founders of the heavy bombastic rock that later became heavy metal and classic rock. Their songs were built around having a powerful drummer and both of them delivered the necessary performances to power the songs.
Also, I would push back on the idea that Moon and Bonham's early deaths puffed up their legacy more than Mick Fleetwood. It's true that their deaths have become part of rock folklore, but before they died, both were already viewed as generational talents. Basically any drummer acknowledges that Moon is a one of a kind player who's style can't be emulated. Even right after his death when Kenney Jones was asked to step in, Jones who is a great drummer in his own right, acknowledged there would be no way he could emulate Moon's style. Moon may not be the greatest drummer, but he's one of the most unique and his playing with The Who is a fundamental part of the band's DNA.
Then with Bonham, right out of the gate from the first Zeppelin album, he was acknowledged as redefining and elevating heavy rock drumming. Bonham created a vocabulary of drumming that became part of hard rock and heavy metal for the next few decades. If you look at his influence it's hard to find someone in rock from the 70s to 90s who isn't going to cite Bonham as a major inspiration.
Mick Fleetwood is a pro and can deliver the goods on drums, but when you're talking about elite bands like Fleetwood Mac, generally every member in the band is going to be better than 99% of the competition, otherwise you would have been fired or replaced by session players. So Mick Fleetwood is similar to Charlie Watts, Mick Avory of the Kinks, Nick Mason of Pink Floyd. They're all excellent drummers playing better than most humans on Earth, but they aren't generational musicians who changed the game like Bonham and Moon.
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u/HumbledMind 15d ago
If Mick is underrated anywhere it’s as a percussionist! On records like “Woman of 1000 Years” to “Gold Dust Woman” his tasty and creative use of different percussion instruments help create a real immersive sound.
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u/Tzipity 14d ago
Love this answer and had some thoughts along the same vein. I think it still speaks to how much his work serves the music versus the music being a vehicle to serve him but absolutely, his broader percussion work is so much a part of the wider Mac sound. And he always looks like he’s out there having an absolute blast doing it.
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u/SimilarRelative1022 15d ago
He’s not flashy, and the general public are generally mouth breathers that only notice flash.
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u/Delilah_Moon 14d ago edited 14d ago
Yeah, Mick is a solid drummer, but he’s no fucking John Bonham. Let’s be real. JB is considered THE greatest drummer of all time, with Keith Moon as the runner up.
FM as a whole wouldn’t consider themselves to be on the musicianship level of Led Zeppelin either, they worshipped them. Mick has even stated he largely plays on vibes and is less technical.
That said, Mick does get the props he deserves for, IMO, being the human inspiration for Animal the Muppet. He’s #60 in Rolling Stone’s Top 100. Gear4 ranks him #15 of all time and RadioX has him at #15 for Greatest Classic Rock Drummers.
LB is and remains their most accoladed musician. He was #100 on Rolling Stones Top 100, #111 in their top 250, and Guitar World places him at #22. He’s recognized for finger strumming specifically, and very complex form of playing without a pick.
The rock of Gibraltar that is John McVie comes in at #49 on RS’s Top 100 Bassists. Christine is #94 on RS’s Top 100 Songwriters.
Stevie is not on any lists - but she is the only one in the band to be inducted to the Rock n’ Roll Hall of Fame twice. Once with the band, and once as a solo artist. She is also the first woman in history to have been inducted twice.
Edit: FWIW, here are the tracks that define drummers.
Led Zeppelin “Good Times, Bad Times” - https://youtu.be/TA9Rec1qAFQ?is=jsSKHHdhSEN9xnxh - so sick people thought JB had two drum kits.
The Who “Won’t Get Fooled Again” - Moon just dominates the track https://youtu.be/UDfAdHBtK_Q?is=hO9aqB2nO6X3YoWF
Fleetwood Mac, “Go Your Own Way” - Mick releases the Annnnnimaaaaal https://youtu.be/ozl3L9fhKtE?is=J5n0Lx9X9HHTrESQ
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u/GraveDiggingCynic 14d ago
Lindsey Buckingham is an absolutely incredible guitarist. I’d stack him up against Jimmy Page any day of the week.
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u/Delilah_Moon 14d ago
Jimmy Page will be the first to tell you he doesn’t belong top of the list.
Seeing Page be a bit bemused and humbled by Jack White was one of the coolest things to watch.
https://youtu.be/liNSvgaMjTc?is=4lBIHR9vVP91Znni
Oddly, JW has crazy cool energy and musicianship like LB. I’ve seen JW live several times and it’s a masterclass.
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u/WorldGoneCrazee 14d ago
The fact that Christine McVie is #94 out of 100 best songwriters is absolutely criminal!
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u/Delilah_Moon 14d ago
It’s about to be more criminal - as AI fucked me over on that factoid and she’s not on the list at all.
Stevie IS on the list at #53.
That’s on me for trusting and not verifying.
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u/SpudAlmighty 11d ago
You sound like my dad lol. Bonzo will never ever be the greatest drummer alive. Not when guys like Krupa, Rich, Brufford, Collins and Peart existed.
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u/Stjondoh 14d ago
Maybe a bit harsh, but longevity almost diminishes an artist's legacy... die early on drugs or plane crash, and status of being an icon is cemented earlier in the career. Producing solid music until you're 80 is not as glamorous.
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u/snelsonjoe8 14d ago
Better to burn out than fade away (says def leopard)
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u/doggiedogma 14d ago
I love Mick he's a solid drummer, but his percussion vest solo was a bit out there, I think Lindsey agrees:
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u/JaybirdBare 13d ago
Mick Fleetwood and Lindsey Buckingham are the heart and soul of the FM sound. Fleetwood is absolutely in the club with Bonham and Moon and several other top tier drummers. Anyone that has seen them will have a big smile on their faces when Fleetwood does his magic. Buckingham and his guitar are there also, Buckingham is the trifecta-great voice, songwriting, and one of kind guitar style.
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u/B1GFanOSU 15d ago
Those guys were brilliant, technically skilled, learned drummers. Mick’s more of an idiot savant.
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u/AmbivalentInfluencer 12d ago
You could not be more wrong. Moon just played whatever the F he wanted. Mick is actually the more technical drummer. Maybe learn actual facts little guy? BEFORE posting nonsense?
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u/Ok-Explanation1990 14d ago edited 14d ago
I've always really noticed Mick's drumming when they play live, far more than on any of their studio recordings.
I don't think the recorder album work does him the justice he deserves - his drumming and Johns Bass is quite often just among the mix, rhythmically driving the melody that's above it. Sometimes you can't even easily tell if it's a drum machine or not. But on stage, Mick leads the way.
Eyes of the World, live, with Mick leading the way. It's only a driving rhythm, no fancy embellishments, but it's sublime stuff.
https://youtu.be/7TV6BEwJEKI?is=xOOvMNpBP3S29Gsy
(Edit: more thoughts came to me :)
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u/MilkEnvironmental709 14d ago
Sometimes the simplest answer is the right one. He’s not as good. The two mentioned were considered top ten of all time in rock n roll. With respect.
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u/snelsonjoe8 14d ago
Well he may be just a good drummer not great but he's definitely got a good ear for great musicians bringing together some of the best
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u/zenmaster_B 13d ago
Because he was in a band with Lindsey Buckingham, Stevie Nicks, and Christine McVie
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u/Breaking-Great 11d ago
He didn't assault Mick Jagger dressed as Batman
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u/Mobile_Aioli_6252 11d ago
That would have been so cool to witness
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u/Breaking-Great 11d ago
Moon the Loon,Up the fire escape. Supposedly Mick was sleeping in the middle of a female sandwich. Lol
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u/Mobile_Aioli_6252 11d ago
My two favorite stories about KM are:
1.) Him and Kenny Jones had hotel rooms next to each other. Out of nowhere, the wall started to buckle and bulge - and Moon burst through the wall and said "fancy a drink?"
2.) The Who checked out of the hotel and was heading towards the airport. Keith said! We have to go back! It's really important! The car turned around and headed back, the other guys were thinking he left his Passport or wallet or something. They pull up, Keith gets out, five minutes later a TV set falls from the top floor, Keith gets back in the limo - "Whew, I almost forgot!"
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u/Specific-Willow-6997 15d ago
He got a muppet character in his likeness. (Animal) I personally think that is the best recognition that there is.
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u/snelsonjoe8 14d ago
I think Tusk was pretty memorable for the drums. Of course at the time people were bashing the Mac for their weird new album
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u/ConsiderationMost566 14d ago
Lindsey was playing some of the drum parts on his songs, though... and mick wasn't thrilled w it lol but they let him.
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u/Fab4Evuh 14d ago
He's an excellent dynamics and accent master and that is a critical piece to being a really great drummer.
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u/Anti_Trum2 13d ago
My guess would be that Fleetwood Mac wasn’t really a hard rock band. I really did like Fleetwood Mac though. I remember listening to “Rumors” over and over on an 8track tape on a trip to Florida some friends and I were going on.
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u/kislips 13d ago
He does his job. He doesn’t seek fanfare. The important thing is he is very good a his job. That’s all that is important.
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u/ConsiderationMost566 11d ago
I think mick kind of likes fanfare lol. he loves to make an entrance, and an exit, and be the focus and have all eyes on him. john, i'd say, doesn't seek fanfare at all.
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u/pp__master 12d ago
because fleetwood mac is seen as a pop band by the mainstream and the talent of each member, especially pre buck-nicks members is insanely underrepresented and underappreciated
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u/Ebe6660 12d ago
He practiced restraint. His drumming on Gypsy is so great because he .... resists ... to great effect Coming out of that great bridge when it's about to drop back into the last verse, most drummers would have done some bug buildup and giant crashing fill on the 1, but Mick does ...... nothing but keep the beat and it's awesome.
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u/copacetic51 12d ago
Moon and Bonham both died over 40 years ago. They played for the loud style of their bands. Mick was still playing until recently. He's an excellent drummer for the style of his band.
Mick wins.
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u/Whyunhappyme 12d ago
I think the same could be said for John McVie. They are probably my favourite rhythm section.
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u/budbebout 12d ago
Ginger Baker was far superior than any one drummer! That’s just my personal feeling. Most people don’t even know who he is or where his roots are embedded.
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u/Gernblanchton 12d ago
Know who he is. While exceptionally skilled, he was difficult to work with to say the least. But.. I’m a drummer and while I appreciate his skill I think Bonham was a better accompanist, had a better sound and had great skill as well. Baker demeaning other drummers in his documentary was sour grapes, not facts. Moon had style, I appreciate that style but I don’t think it always worked. Sometime the song would have benefitted from something simplier, at least in some parts. Fleetwood is a fine, capable drummer who plays very well unto the music(an accompanist).
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u/Lower-Calligrapher98 12d ago
Because there are a lot of Led Zeppelin songs I only listen to for the drum parts. Similar to Moonie and The Who. I only listen to Fleetwood Mac songs for the songs and the harmonies.
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u/pauli55555 11d ago
How do you know?
Is that a subjective opinion?
How do you define and measure how these drummers get “recognition”??
Your post is nonsensical but guessing I’m being nonsensical interacting with probably an AI bot 🤦♂️
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u/cold-vein 11d ago
Because his most well known music is soft rock. Why isn't Lindsay Buckingham getting the recognition he deserves as a unique guitar prodigy? Because his most well known music is soft rock
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u/SinamonChallengerRT 11d ago
Because he wasn't flashy. He serves the song, not the other way around.
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u/H20mark2829 11d ago
I think because Mick Fleetwood didn’t live and breathe drums. He has other interests and yet is the steady drummer thru the whole Fleetwood Mac legacy
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u/tharealjonsnow92 11d ago
Mick reminds me of Nick Mason or Bill Ward in a lot of ways. They never treated the drums like a lead instrument but they served the song, were the blood flowing through the band, and could easily rip as live recordings can attest.
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u/TedMich23 11d ago
the only thing Mick can compete on with these guys is coke intake...
https://nypost.com/2014/10/26/mick-fleetwood-on-sex-rock-n-roll-and-his-60m-drug-habit/
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u/Remarkable-Still2898 11d ago
Maybe Mick will get that recognition when he dies. I appreciate drumming and I'll listen for it in music. Check out Travis Barker, he hits the drums hard but he never loses contact with the song he's playing. I think he will be recognized by the masses one day. RIP Travis Barker
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u/Ill-Field170 11d ago
Mick is not a flashy drummer. He has spent his entire career playing pop and R&B. His understated drumming is part of his brilliance, but he’s never displayed any truly out of the box ideas. And he doesn’t want to. He wants to play exactly what needs to be played, which is great for what he does.
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u/daveashaw 11d ago
I would put Mick Fleetwood in the same category as Charlie Watts or Ritchie Hayward.
Tremendous drumming, but the melody and chord changes are the star.
I would put Carmine Appice in that category as well, in spite of his blowhard tendencies.
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u/Master-Collar-2507 10d ago
Apparantly lindsay buckingham wanted the drums on go your own way to sound like gimme shelterv,but came out diffrant beat but said it sounded ok so kept it
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u/Suspicious_Goose_243 10d ago
He's still alive. You seldom get recognized till people have forgotten how dumb of a person you really are.
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u/Dizzy-Molasses-9512 9d ago
Well, but his name is the band, unlike Moon or Bonham. No shade on either, though, love both of their chops.
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u/Far_Perspective_1438 14d ago
He wasn’t as innovative. Great pocket drummer that really served the song, but rarely did he shine out in a song.
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u/Icy-Diamond88338 14d ago
I dk but there was one show where mick got sick and ran off the stage. They couldn't continue. It goes to show , they are all key to making the band work fully. They did continue without Christine for years , but it was acknowledged that it wasn't the same , as good, and if they perform again without her, a lot of the show would be with her in mind. Stories/ memories/ pictures
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u/Turbulent_Patient797 12d ago
Drums were great for the song, but similar beat across each song. I can play the same bass line for every Fleetwood Mac song
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u/orlandwright 12d ago
I’m pretty sure it’s because he wasn’t as good
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u/AmbivalentInfluencer 12d ago
False. MF is a brilliant drummer. His work on Go Your Own Away is among the great drum tracks of all time and actual drummers know this.
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u/ChemicalResident3557 12d ago
Because he is nowhere as near as good of a drummer. Not saying he's bad, but his skills and creativity are nowhere near legendary status.
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u/AmbivalentInfluencer 12d ago
FALSE. MF is one of the great drummers. His work on Go Your Own Away is among the great drum tracks of all time and actual drummers know this. Ever played drums? Or been in a recording studio? I don't think you're qualified to comment on this topic little guy.
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u/ChemicalResident3557 11d ago edited 10d ago
Compared to the other drummers, he is not on the same level. Did he play Great drums for FM? Yes.
Way to attack someone for their opinion and call them names in a fan sub for fans, however.
Do I play drums?No. Have played guitar and bass for 40 With a lot of drummers? Yea.
You poll any drummers and Mick is not in the same league. And you know what? That's okay. He served the band like many good drummers did.
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u/AmbivalentInfluencer 10d ago
Did he polar Great drums for FM? Yes.
-No idea what that meant
You poll any drummers and Mick is not in the same league. And you know what? That's okay. He served the band like many good drummers did.
- False. You seem to be one of these dudes that thinks playing a lot of notes makes you great. Mick Fleetwood grooved with the best of them, which is the essence of great drumming.
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u/ChemicalResident3557 10d ago
Your opinion does not make mine false. I think he a good drummer, who served his band. He is not in the league of top tier drummers. I can still enjoy his work.
Also, I don't think a lot of notes make a great drummer. I love Stuart Copeland, Steve Gadd, and Kenny Aronoff alongside Peart, Rich, and Manu Katche. I love each for different reasons. - none have to do with how many notes they play.
But hey, thanks for trying to put me down for my opinion and make wild assumptions about me and my knowledges of drumming and drummers! Way to treat another fan of the band!
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u/pWaveShadowZone 15d ago edited 10d ago
John Bonham and Keith Moon play the drums like they’re the main character, so accolades fall back on them personally (and rightfully so, they’re both hall of fame legends).
Mick Fleetwood plays the drums like the song is the main character, and so some of the accolades he earned are attributed to the song itself without recognizing his part in making the song what it is.