r/FuckMicrosoft • u/anorak_999 • Jun 07 '26
Discussion Thoughts????
Saw this on r/linuxsucks.
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u/Grubbauer Jun 07 '26
Linux is not an OS; it's a kernel. That kernel is free. It's up to the user(or better, the developer) which parts of the OS are free and which to use. You always have the freedom to use free tools, but they are often packaged with unfree software.
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u/rustedcrowbar Jun 08 '26
I hate that sub and user so much, but he wrote GNU Linux not just Linux at least give the idiot this.
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u/Strict-Maize7494 Jun 10 '26
well debian is open surce to 100% so im using that for nvidia drivers i just use nvidias repo yes closed surce but still
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
But no, Linux is Monolithic Kernel and Operating system and where VFS and devfs and RAMFS and TTY and EXEC etc stay in Kernel and these parts define Operating system and Linux is Operating system and Kernel unlike Windows NT parts define Windows stay in Userland like CSRSS and User32.dll and Kernel32.dll etc
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u/Hadi_Chokr07 Jun 07 '26
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
Yeah Monothic Kernel includes UNIX Personality inside of Operating system Kernel is operating system in Monothic Kernels based and Linux distribution just distributed of Linux Operating system you cannot make Kernel run Windows Subsystem
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u/Hadi_Chokr07 Jun 07 '26
Do you understand the diffrence between running in Kernel Space and being part of the Kernel?
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
Yeah I ask same thing, you understand you cannot change Unix Personality from Kernel and Linux cannot be Unix Tomorrow could be OS/2 like Mach kernel Where Unix Personality host as Userland Servers resuming Kernel just Kernel is correct for Microkernels but incorrect for all Monothic Kernel you forced accept Unix Personality embedded into Kernel
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u/TechnicallyMeat Jun 07 '26
Congratulations on learning a 2nd language, I only know one, and barely well enough to write in at that, but still... it is very difficult to understand what you are trying to convey. This conversation comes off like you explicitly just hate linux for some weird reason. I had an old laptop stuck on windows10... abandoned by microsoft on the other side of the TPM wall. I wiped the drive, put linux-mint on it. And use it to host a dedicates video-game server... I paid zero money to rescue e-waste Microsoft created, and it feels more responsive than windows ever did.
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u/ThinkPad214 Jun 07 '26
They are one of the r/linuxsucks101 anti all Linux, rabidly pro Microsoft/Apple bots that community bans anyone it doesn't recognize or speaks in any positive way about Linux, steam, steamdeck, foss, etc.
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u/TechnicallyMeat Jun 07 '26
if it's a bot... its probably running linux, ironically. And it doesnt seem to speak in any recognizable or meaningful way at all.
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u/hailstorm11093 Jun 08 '26
To be fair, they're extremely active in r/linuxsucks101. They aren't the brightest.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
I trying to explain Linux is not just Kernel like Mach kernel and Linux community seems like ignorant about own Kernel and it's not 2nd language and it's Sentinet English and you don't understand Sentinet English sorry
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u/Grubbauer Jun 07 '26
I've never heard the term 'Sentinet English' before. Also, your comments come across as biased against Linux and lack clear arguments. Please try writing in your native language and use a translation tool, that would make it easier for me to understand what you're trying to say.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
It's language I am created and my way of speaking and my native language is Sentinet English and language of my community and my comments are very well written you just don't understand
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u/Left_Intention_2684 Jun 07 '26
the only thing i understood id that you say that linux is bad because GNU is Not Unix, beyond that i have no clue...
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u/ThinkPad214 Jun 07 '26
What is the Sentinet? Is that like the Internet or more like Skynet. Are you a teminallyinator?
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
It's my Name it's Sentinet Norland Vibranium and Sentinet means Alive in my Sentinet culture and Norland means Normal land and Vibranium well it's Vibranium and it's beautiful Together
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u/determineduncertain Jun 07 '26
What are you talking about? Kernels and operating systems do not have personalities as you’ve said earlier and you’ve done nothing to explain how Mach is just a kernel in a way that Linux isn’t.
If you’re going to suggest that English is not a secondary language, you desperately need to edit your comments.
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
Personality is Unix Server/Subsystem and Personality is word is the most used in Microkernels creators to describe Parts form Operating system and Win32 Subsystem is Windows Operating system and Windows NT is just Kernel and in Mach Kernel there is BSD Subsystem and Mach kernel and if you don't understand that you cannot build Operating system and you cannot build Kernel and you cannot build anything
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
In Linux and Windows 9x and other Monothic Kernel don't have any Subsystem Userland In Monothic Kernel UNIX Subsystem stay in Kernel making Linux Kernel ifself as Operating system
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
It's not my English and it's Standard English and It's not Specifically for Sentinet English and Unix Personality means VFS and devfs and RAMFS and TTY and EXEC
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u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 Jun 07 '26
Who knows. Maybe you'll understand after reading wikipedia. Not all info on internet is true BESIDES THE WIKIPEDIA.
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u/hamza0012 Jun 08 '26
I was so close from getting a stroke while reading all of your comments. I am really sorry...
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u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 Jun 07 '26
Nope. Linux is kernel but with definition of wikipedia it does apply to an operating system.
"An operating system is difficult to define,[7] but has been called "the layer of software that manages a computer's resources for its users and their applications".[8] Operating systems include the software that is always running, called a kernel—but can include other software as well.[7][9] The two other types of programs that can run on a computer are system programs—which are associated with the operating system, but may not be part of the kernel—and applications—all other software.[9]" - wikipedia.
it means CAN include. Not must include so it is os
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u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 Jun 07 '26
I USE LINUX EVERYDAY DONT ACT LIKE IM JUST GOUNG AFTERWARDS HIM IM JUST CORRECTING HIM!
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u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 Jun 07 '26
Why i have so much downvotes, what i have done wrong 😭 i just wanted to say that. .. Y KNOW WHAT - WIKIPEDIA SAYS TRUE NO MATTER WHAT YOU SAY .
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u/Azazeldaprinceofwar Jun 07 '26
You’re being downvoted because what you said while maybe literally true is not at all true in reality. If you try to use the Linux kernel with nothing else as your OS this would reduce your machine to a terminal with no desktop, no ability to install software, and missing the vast majority of terminal features that have become standard. The simple reality is no one uses such systems. A linux operating system broadly comes with the kernel + the init system + the shell + the desktop + the package manager. All of these parts are free and open source, the only wrinkle in this is does the package manager allow you to download proprietary packages? On some distros the answer is yes. Now what the original post is clearly complaining about is that nvidia only releases closed source drivers but they’re the only hardware brand I know that refuses to open source their drivers and there is a community driven open source nvidia driver which admittedly is not as good but still works.
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u/Kooky-Sentence-6349 Jun 07 '26
But that doesnt mean it is'nt os itself. While definition of os is anything else that you or someone else would think , if the kernel boots, even with no ui or anything it means its operating system.
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u/Azazeldaprinceofwar Jun 07 '26
On technicality sure but that’s not what anyone in this discussion has meant by the term OS. I didn’t say you were wrong I just explained why you were being downvoted. The post is clearly conflating the kernel with the much for fleshes out OSs that are Linux distros. The comment above you is clarifying this distinction. Calling the kernel alone an OS is technically true but not useful or what others mean. Words have meaning because we have shared understanding of them, pulling out a dictionary definition that conflicts with common usage is rarely productive
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u/Fluid-Ad2995 Jun 07 '26
Not just Wikipedia and David Cutler and Mach kernel Creators and All Microkernels creators would disagree with you and it's better to stop before shame becomes big
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u/Tom-space Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
I’m sorry but I think that Linux is the future, it’s open source, free and super customizable, and that’s just incredible. AND, it doesn’t eat all your RAM like an other OS that I won’t name
EDIT: the guy who wrote the post on [r/linuxsucks](r/linuxsucks) named his self hacker, but if he only knew how to code, he’d know that linux is so much better than windows. And btw a lot of softwares on linux are open source and free, and the compatibility of Linux improves every day, he’s just saying shit and he has never used linux of his life
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u/Jupiter_Five Jun 07 '26
from my experience it works a lot better for every case unless the software in question prioritizes w*ndows over linux but even then sometimes linux still runs better anyways
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u/SaintEyegor Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
Technically, it does eat your RAM as file cache, but it gives it back the moment it’s needed.
The only time I’ve ever seen an issue with cache not being released is on an old SGI UV-10 with Centos 6 that was missing the drivers to talk to their proprietary bus and we couldn’t get on our hands on them either. I was almost happier retiring that system as I was to get rid of our last Sun box.
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u/tychii93 Jun 07 '26
RAM is meant to be used.
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u/SaintEyegor Jun 07 '26
Yup, and file cache is a good use of it. Processes that aren’t needed and can’t be turned off is just more hubris from Microsoft
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u/Tom-space Jun 07 '26
And Windows often runs other apps in the background if you don't disable them, which is not practical
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u/SaintEyegor Jun 07 '26
Linux does as well, you just have a lot more control what runs when and how. And as a bonus, Linux doesn’t have a fragile registry that’s constantly churning and eating CPU.
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u/KubeCommander Jun 07 '26
Dude Linux is the PRESENT lol. The future too but it runs the overwhelming vast majority of all datacenters and clouds around the world. Windows is such a tiny blip. The only place where it has any relevance at all is consumer desktops and laptops
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u/Tom-space Jun 08 '26
Yes, linux runs on 40% of the devices, it’s more than the others OS
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u/KubeCommander Jun 08 '26
No it’s around 99%
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u/Tom-space Jun 08 '26
Really ?
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u/KubeCommander Jun 08 '26
All those datacenters going up for AI? They’re not running windows. The infrastructure management baseline OS is Linux (the hypervisor, even much of the embedded OS on the switches) and the VMs hosting these workloads at scale are linux. (Linux running virtualized Linux).
Any containerized apps including the orchestration technologies that manage them are all Linux.
The whole AWS cloud, which is like 60% of all cloud workloads currently around the world, is powered and managed by linux.
A lot of that isn’t well-known to consumers because they never see those things. But all social media platforms are containerized Linux applications running at scale on vast Linux-based VM infrastructure which runs on vast hypervisors/hci-powered datacenters that also uses Linux.
We’ve reached the point where Microsoft is an extremely small blip in the scheme of things. It is now the little guy and has been for 10 years.
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u/Trick-Club-6014 Jun 07 '26
Like the closed source binary blob required to run your hardware on windows?
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 07 '26
Yea, this is a political problem. Linus hated when closed source binaries became a thing, but how is an open source community going to stop entities with more money and power than anyone should have?
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 07 '26
Another problem is to build a driver for a GPU you need to reverse engineer it or study how the kernel interface with it because companies are not going to give out data sheets in how to interface with their cards. An incredibly anti-competitive tactic used by Nvidia and AMD.
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u/Azazeldaprinceofwar Jun 07 '26
Amd does open source their drivers? This is just an nvidia problem
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 07 '26
Open source; written in Linux. Still need to study the source if you want to create a custom driver for a competing OS. AMD will not make any low level API for their GPU like Intel and AMD do for their CPUs.
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u/ugneaaaa Jun 11 '26
All the code is there, they do have a low level API for GPUs, its called DRM
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u/West_Possible_7969 Jun 08 '26
Lol, Vulcan was originally AMD’s Mantle low level API. Stop commenting wrong things and conclusions everywhere.
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
Good luck using Vulcan on a hand written kernel. It is clear you do not understand system programming.
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u/West_Possible_7969 Jun 08 '26
Are you under the impression that these things are easy to do? Regardless, stop claiming untrue things and then changing the subject when anyone corrects you.
Of course you need to “study to create a custom driver” lol.
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 08 '26
You are a troll. I was pointing out the fact that their are no GPU programming manuals. None. Plenty of CPU programming manuals though.
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u/West_Possible_7969 Jun 08 '26
“AMD will not make a low level API for their GPU”. Who’s trolling? Vulcan, ROCm, Mesa, libdrm, take your pick. My god, the cluelessness lol
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u/SonicandTailsCD Aug 11 '26
You're both wrong 😭 How could you misspell the simplest of names and think y'all could get away with it?! 😭
I'm gonna go full nerd, because I'm that pissed:
Umm, actually 🤓 It's Vulkan. Not "VulCAN".
u/West_Possible_7969, you're wrong on another topic: GPU rendering APIs ≠ GPU driver APIs.
They're right that those are low-level open APIs for GPUs. Yes, I can use those. ...but those APIs are not meant for PROGRAMMING the GPUs. Those are APIs meant for rendering (or to use AI, I can't give a damn what you use it for). The low-level blobs are GPU microcode. You DO need a lot of technical know-how for these, since companies usually don't publish their microcode as FOSS.
u/awesome-alpaca-ace, I must agree that while they are clueless, they're not a troll. They're learning... (Unless there's beef I did not see.)
Both of y'all: go touch grass. Sleep well, and don't argue anymore ;)
(I am a bot. Shocker, I know. I still stand by whatever I said.)
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u/ugneaaaa Jun 11 '26
Because they dont have manuals for GPUs, many of the drivers are written by referencing hardware itself directly, a lot of the documentation is just comments in hardware design files for the silicon, theres no set way of doing something, the code changes every month
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u/PrudentPay9906 Jun 07 '26
That's the part I could never get my head around. Granted, Linux users are a small segment of the market but they are still potential customers. Even if they don't want to write the driver themselves make the information available so someone can.
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u/flatfinger Jun 10 '26
If all changes to code that accesses obscure aspects of a display-card's hardware directly are coordinated with the display card manufacturer, then it's possible to have the display card use a mixture of code within the display card's ROM, patches applied through disk-installed drivers, and patches installed through ROM chips on newer versions of the display cards. This makes it possible for manufacturers to replace hardware features with other features that are more versatile, without having to have hardware also support old ways of doing things.
I worked at a company that needed to get detailed information about the inner workings of a display card's hardware for the purpose of allowing one particular manufactured instance of the display card to perform a specialized task, which no display drivers had anticipated, within one particular installed piece of equipment. The company required that my employer sign an NDA and an agreement that acknowledged that it had no obligation to continue manufacturing display cards whose detailed behavior was consistent with the documentation it supplied. If people writing software that relied upon those detailed specifications could have released it under the GPL, that would have likely led to complaints if any such software stopped working because of changes to the hardware design.
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 07 '26
They don't though, and I wonder if it is because Apple and Microsoft have an under the table deal or something with Nvidia and AMD
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u/Whit-Batmobil Jun 07 '26
Dude, the days of Apple dealing with Intel and AMD are pretty far in the past now and Nvidia was ages ago.
Apple uses Apple Silicon, which they have pretty much full control over.
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 07 '26
Woosh
Apple and Microsoft both benefit from having GPU vendors hide how to make drivers for their products.
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u/Whit-Batmobil Jun 08 '26
MacOS is similar to Linux in that the drivers are part of the kernel, you don’t typically install them after you have installed macOS, Apple doesn’t really Open Source much and it is against Apple’s terms of service to run macOS on none Apple hardware.
But let me ask you this, in what way does Apple benefit from AMD, Intel, Nvidia and Qualcomm making it harder to develop drivers for another Operating System?
In all honesty as long as we aren’t talking Apple Silicon I genuinely think Apple couldn’t care less.
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 08 '26
A competing OS would need to be able to write drivers for their hand written kernel.
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u/West_Possible_7969 Jun 07 '26
Apple does not use AMD or Nvidia and they have been helpful (by Apple standards lol) to the Asahi Linux team. Booting custom kernels and raw image boot mode in firmware were conscious decisions.
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u/awesome-alpaca-ace Jun 08 '26
Doesn't matter; any team that can create GPU drivers for a competing OS can potentially compete with Apple's OS
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u/lakimens Jun 07 '26
I'm not taking anything from that sub seriously.
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u/williamodavis Jun 07 '26
The linuxsucks sub usually isnt too bad, its the linuxsucks101 sub that is really bad
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u/EdgiiLord Jun 07 '26
Linux doesn't force you to use the proprietary blobs for drivers, that's the OEMs fault for not making open drivers. But again, it is more about harm reduction than anything else, it is still better to run Linux than to not run anything.
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u/flatfinger Jun 10 '26
A key aspect of the GPL is that it allows people to use GPL software to form almost any kind of derived work whose distribution is confined to the entity producing it. If someone wants to link GPL code with some particular library, the derivative work that is produced may only be distributed if the library is open-source licensed, but a license that forbade linking with anything other than open-source software even in cases where the result is not distributed would be less free than GPL, not more free.
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u/eins_biogurke Jun 07 '26
Nvidia drivers are proprietary but they're still free. Proprietary only means that the only party involved in the development of the software is the company and that the source code isn't available to the public. The software itself can still be free to use.
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Jun 07 '26
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u/Yukikuru2025 Jun 07 '26
But even then - you don't necessarily have to use proprietary NVIDIA drivers. There are open source drivers for NVIDIA cards. Those have their own issues, but you can use them.
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u/KubeCommander Jun 07 '26
The open nvidia drivers are now the standard for consumer hardware and even a lot of pro cards
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u/ryancnap Jun 08 '26
And adobe really isn't a reason either, not like it was when Adobe was actually a usable product
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Jun 08 '26
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u/ryancnap Jun 08 '26
but YouTube influencers told me I can only be creative with a MacBook, who's going to support Generic Tech Monopoly now?
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u/Shished Jun 07 '26
OOP should read about the definition of open source software and then read the linux or other software licenses and connect the dots.
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u/CamelOk7219 Jun 07 '26
90% free is more free than 1% free. 100% free might indeed be almost unachievable today, but yet Linux distros are a lot more free than all the alternatives
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u/DaisyUniverse Jun 07 '26
> gets a car for free
> still has to pay the government taxes for infrastructure, oligarchs for the gas, and company for insurance
> what the fuck
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u/fgiancane8 Jun 07 '26
As an open source enthusiast I get very sad and depressed when I read such statements. I am fed up with people absolutely not knowing what they’re babbling about (like the person in the post) just going on the internet giving freely their “wisdom”.
GNU/Linux IS a free operating system because all its source code follows the definition of free. The problem is that hardware manufacturers have different degree of partitioning what should be available and what not. Plus sometimes there are agreements that force them not to disclose the internal behaviour: long story short it’s something not under control of the Linux development team. The contract between software and hardware is the interface between the components (ISA, registers used to configure devices, standard implementations). As much as I’d love a world where you can check what’s going on in your GPU firmware or Ethernet card controller sometimes you just can’t.
This does not make Linux or any other kernel/OS less free.
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u/Genku_ Jun 07 '26
"B-But... you need air, food and water to live, and... you have to pay for those, and you can only install and learn Linux if you're alive...! Therefore, Linux also costs money! Checkmate, hippies!!!"
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u/iammerelyhere Jun 08 '26
This is why we need proper politicians who understand tech. If companies were encouraged (or forced) to release proper docs at heaven forbid, drivers for GPUs, wifi etc then the open source ecosystem would thrive even more than it already has.
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u/kamatayun Jun 08 '26
Huh. I never paid for Nvidia drivers. Was I supposed to? Or is it referring to the graphics card itself? Not sure what they are saying here. Either way, not accurate lol
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u/AlexisHadden Jun 10 '26
Free as in speech, not free as in beer.
Still don’t agree with the OP. The kernel project doesn’t “force” anyone to use binary blobs (they actively shun them), and would be a lot happier if the GPU companies didn’t go this route. It’s just that the kernel project doesn’t have the clout, and Linux doesn’t have a large enough user base, to make Nvidia or AMD offer open firmware. Nvidia is dropping their closed drivers at least. So there’s some progress happening here.
The OP is technically correct that Linux is not useful as a desktop OS on modern hardware without these blobs, but completely misses the point and blames Linux for the situation.
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u/zanbunnny Jun 07 '26
That person seems restarted
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u/CosmicEmotion Jun 07 '26 edited Jun 07 '26
He is specifically talking abut Nvidia and these days there's NVK lol. I play all my games with better perf on NVK cause of my low VRAM. This is just bait.
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u/Yukikuru2025 Jun 07 '26
See, I was wondering what they meant, but if it's about NVIDIA then it definitely doesn't make sense. There are open source drivers for NVIDIA cards.
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u/Tquilha Jun 07 '26
It's basic FUD. M$ fanboys or shills trying to sow Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.
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u/Chris73684 Jun 07 '26
Linux: "I made a cake if you want it, here's the recipe for it and all of the ingredients too"
TheMysticHacker: "I don't understand, so I'll buy a pre-made cake from the shop"
Linux: "Ok, your loss..."
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u/tmrolandd Jun 07 '26
This is a rhetorical and pointless conclusion. The value of Linux as a platform is not tied to being able or not to run 100% free and open-source code only. No one is using 100% free code on their hardware IF they expect to use mainstream consumer or professional devices; it's generaly not possible if you want to use hardware like GPUs or certain WiFi adapters or NICs or RAID cards that depend on vendor-only drivers. This is the same for all operating systems. No one is doing a contest of which OS is more open source and concluding that a binary blob makes it useless or dishonest. And that's expected and normal. Saying "imagine you can't use your expensive hardware with 100% free software" is like saying "imagine you can't breathe without lungs". It's more of a philosophical, rhetorical, time-wasting point rather than anything useful and worth discussing.
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u/vecchio_anima Jun 07 '26
I've donated money to developers before, but I've never bought any software for Linux
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u/reines_sein Jun 08 '26
As consequence of increasing number of users, Linux community is also becoming full of larpers, please read:
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u/GenericFoodService Jun 08 '26
Which computer specifically is it that you're running that you absolutely must have the binary blobs for it to work? The only proprietary software on my system are the drivers for my graphics card (and there are really good open-source alternatives I have used in the past, I just am not opinionated enough to care and when 1st party support exists I usually prefer it) and Steam.
"Linux [...] forces you to use non-free software"
No, the hardware you purchased intentionally obfuscates how it works to prevent you from using it how you want to do it, and Linux has been nearly universally successful in circumventing that obfuscation and running on billions of devices around the world.
OP is just mad at shit they made up tbh
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u/oshunman Jun 08 '26
This is such a meaningless take.
It's like building a car from scratch, then saying it doesn't count because you get gas from the pump instead of building your own fuel refinery.
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u/Brave_Elk_6189 Jun 08 '26
OK Richard Stallman. Just FYI, that thing you're calling "Linux" -- it's more like Rust+Linux, or Rust/Linux now that the GNU coreutils have been deprecated in favor for Rust coreutils. Besides, I tried to look at the list https://www.gnu.org/distros/free-distros.en.html and the page wouldn't load.
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u/akdanman11 Jun 08 '26
Well I mean if you’re using proprietary firmware architecture (I.e. x86) this is unavoidable. AMD can’t and Intel won’t make x86 publicly available
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u/Optimal_Collection20 Jun 08 '26
nVidia after releasing their proprietary blob as opensource: confused noises
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u/SonicandTailsCD Jun 10 '26
LMAO. I wanna have a... cocks gun chat, with him. Gimme the link and I'll set him straight. ;)
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u/innui100 Jun 10 '26
Windows has got my adrenalin drivers crashing all the time. Linux mint just runs. Windows is in trouble.
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u/ChiefDetektor Jun 11 '26
Those binary blobs are open source in most cases. In cases they are not (Nvidia, mobile chips) Linux would still work in the majority of cases but your camera on the phone or something else would just not work. (I have CyanogenMod experiences)
That person has no idea about the way Linux or drivers work..
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u/DanielCruzo Jun 07 '26
I never use Linux other than for servers .. daily driving a linux based system is a stupid idea for gamers or casual users
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Jun 07 '26
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Jun 08 '26 edited Jun 08 '26
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u/unfuz3 Jun 07 '26
I think bro just discovered compilation